5 best quarterbacks ever

[moronico]

1- Flutie,
2- Marino,
3- Elway,
4- Moon,
5- Kelly,

and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.

[coryhartford]

1-Montana
2-Elway
3-Marino
4-Farve
5-Johnny U

[Thunderstruck]

Lol @ Flutie #1.

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Marino
4. Favre
5. Steve Young (short career, but he was the most complete QB I've ever seen.)

Honorable Mentions:

Dan Fouts
Terry Bradshaw
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly

Rising:

Tom Brady (may end up #1 if he keeps it up)
Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb

[moronico]

i totally forgot about joe montana, sorry joe you are definately in my top five(just replaced jim kelly at number 5)

[mgpretzel]

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Fouts
5. Farve



Coming up

McNabb
Culpeper
RIVERS!!!!!!!!

[BIGRICK]

There were many other good ones what about Rodger Stauback.( hope I spelled it right)

[stamm321]

1. Montana
2. Johnny U
3. Dan Fouts
4. Jack Kemp
5. John Hadl

[tourplayer2004]

1. Montana
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Peyton Manning
5. Terry Bradshaw


6. Phillip Rivers (will be)


Everyone forgot about Danny White, Fran Tarkenton, Phil Simms, and Steve Young.

Bart Starr??????


Oh yeah.....and Roman Gabriel

Go Pack! Go Bolts!!

[geekster]

Originally posted by: tourplayer2004
Oh yeah.....and Roman Gabriel
BWAA HAA HAAAAA!

[TrumpetDude]

1. LT (perfect Q.B. rating and all) >>> FOUTS man !!!
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Tarkenton
5. Tony Montana

[Johndbr]

1) Fouts, when you take everything into consideration, he has to take the top spot. Just try and imagine what he could have done with a consistently good line, a good RB, have Joiner K Winslow Sr. JJ from when he started QBing to when he retired and even just a decent defense throughout his career. I think they would have been the most dominate team ever. Of course this is not a perfect world and that did not happen, but if you judge it on a sliding scale trying to picture what his career would have been like with lets say the 49rs, I think he wins hands down.

2) Montana
3) Elway
4) Rodger Stauback.( hope I spelled it right) <and yes that is a cut in paste i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
5) Farve and Young tied
6) LT, got to thrown in the only guy I know of with a perfect QB rating i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

John B.

[rrogers]

Jonny U
Montana
Fouts
Elway
Marino

[Thunderstruck]

Originally posted by: Johndbr
1) Fouts, when you take everything into consideration, he has to take the top spot. Just try and imagine what he could have done with a consistently good line, a good RB, have Joiner K Winslow Sr. JJ from when he started QBing to when he retired and even just a decent defense throughout his career. I think they would have been the most dominate team ever. Of course this is not a perfect world and that did not happen, but if you judge it on a sliding scale trying to picture what his career would have been like with lets say the 49rs, I think he wins hands down.



2) Montana

3) Elway

4) Rodger Stauback.( hope I spelled it right) <and yes that is a cut in paste

5) Farve and Young tied

6) LT, got to thrown in the only guy I know of with a perfect QB rating



John B.

All I have to do is picture Fouts having the same offense he had around him from 79-82 for his entire career. That team had just as much talent on offense as any 49ers team. Hell they had a terrific offensive line. Fouts, as slow as he was got sacked only 8 times one year. They were--four-deep at wide receiver and three deep at tight end. Chuck Muncie was the most gifted running back around--fastest player on the team according to Ed White, Muncie scored 19 TD's in 1981 while rolling up almost 1600 yards in total offense. That offense was about as close to perfect as you can get.

Defense? If they could've stayed as strong as they were in 77-79, things would've been fine.

[riverhead]

Originally posted by: moronico
i totally forgot about joe montana, sorry joe you are definately in my top five(just replaced jim kelly at number 5)

Montana is always #1

[brees2gates]

montana
brees i mean marino
elway
fouts
bradshaw

[mikeg0606]

Originally posted by: moronico



and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.


Vick? I say McNabb will get there before Vick will. And Rivers will be up and coming along with Big Ben. I dont hold much hope for Eli, hes good and all, bit i still think hes overrated because of his name. And wheres Farve on your list?

[Gr8team]

1. Ryan Leaf
2. Andre Ware
3. Craig Whelihan
4. Akili Smith
5. Cade McNown

[stamm321]

Originally posted by: Gr8team
1. Ryan Leaf

2. Andre Ware

3. Craig Whelihan

4. Akili Smith

5. Cade McNown

LOL you forgot the greatest!
Sean Salsbury Steak!

[IgorUnchained]

Ryan Leaf at number one? finally someone sees that a short career doesnt mean that a guy didnt contribute. Unfortunately Leaf didnt make my top five, this time, but wait until 05 when he makes his comeback!!!

Best IMHO

1)Marino
2)Elway
3)Montana
4)Fouts
5)Favre

Unfortunately I dont really like any of these guys except Dan Fouts, so--

Favorite QBs

1)Flutie 2)Vick 3)Culpepper 4)Mcnabb 5)Dave Dickenson (Montana Love)

QBs Id like to "bugger whilst invicorating"

1)Eli 2)Peyton 3)Leaf 4)S Young 5)Detmers

[riverhead]

Slingin' Sammy Baugh
Norm Van Brocklin
Sid Luckman
Bobby Lane
Dandy Don Meredithi/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gifi/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gifi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gifi/expressions/beer.gif

[SDRaiderH8er]

To go with a top 5 forever:

1 ) Hands down its Dan Fouts

2 ) Joe Montana, what he did made the West Coast offense the Model System, even though it was Dan Fouts who made Don Coryells Offense Fly , and the west Coast System is a take off of the Coryell System

3 ) Dan Marino, he was much like Dan Fouts, threw the ball everywhere, yet had nothing to show for it except the Hall of Fame

4 ) John Elway, the best 2 Minute Quarterback, you just knew that with less then 2 Minutes, the Broncos were drivimg the Field for a TD.

5 ) Terry Bradshaw, tough, gritty, a Leader, knew how to get the ball in the End Zone, and his Teamates rallied around him

[HeadTrip]

Originally posted by: moronico
1- Flutie,

2- Marino,

3- Elway,

4- Moon,

5- Kelly,



and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.

Vick should not be mentioned in the same breath as any great QB, unless you were to say, "Vick should not be mentioned in the same breath as any great QB" i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif.

[Shamrock]

1. Johnny Unitas




Originally posted by: BIGRICK
...Rodger Stauback.( hope I spelled it right)
Roger Staubach is the correct spelling.

[MoveitMister]

Originally posted by: stamm321

Originally posted by: Gr8team

1. Ryan Leaf



2. Andre Ware



3. Craig Whelihan



4. Akili Smith



5. Cade McNown



LOL you forgot the greatest!

Sean Salsbury Steak!
How could he forget Sean!?!

[SDRaiderH8er]

Originally posted by: MoveitMister

Originally posted by: stamm321


Originally posted by: Gr8team



1. Ryan Leaf







2. Andre Ware







3. Craig Whelihan







4. Akili Smith







5. Cade McNown







LOL you forgot the greatest!



Sean Salsbury Steak!

How could he forget Sean!?!Your right, Sean, John, Gone,....................

[SDynasty]

Originally posted by: HeadTrip

Originally posted by: moronico

1- Flutie,



2- Marino,



3- Elway,



4- Moon,



5- Kelly,







and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.

vick will get hurt and be done in less than 10 years.

Vick should not be mentioned in the same breath as any great QB, unless you were to say, "Vick should not be mentioned in the same breath as any great QB" .

[BIGRICK]

Thank you some times I need a little help

[OldManCharger]

This Question needs to be asked in two parts.

The best 5 Statistical QBs ever.....no particular order

Marino
Montana
Moon
Fouts
(Eventually - Favre)

But the Best tangible and intangile QBs wh are proven winners (money players) are slightly different, all Super Bowl Repeaters and big game winners. Unfortunately and sadly, I cannot include Fouts on this list.
.....no particular order

Terry Bradshaw
Joe Montana
Troy Aikman
John Elway
(Despite 4 Super Bowl losses its still damn amazing - Jim Kelly)

Honorabe mention: Tom Brady already two and a good 6 years left, clearly not finished.

Just a note:

I am in shock about Bree's Play, will it continue....I am no Naysayer but he is just not this good to keep it up.....enjoy and relish the victories while they last.....I sure as hope that Brees becomes the luckiest QB alive, as all I want to see is the Blue and Bolt win.

OMC

[maverjoe]

when does Brady make the list? One more superbowl MVP and you can't leave him off anymore.

[OldManCharger]

Originally posted by: maverjoe
when does Brady make the list? One more superbowl MVP and you can't leave him off anymore.

Honorable mention, you saw that right....he's not finished.....e needs to fill in the "longevity" aspect of finsihing in the top.....buthe will be there soon enough, no arguement.

OMC

[spysnipedis]

Oh Yea, this is my list for recent Best QB's in 2004

1. D. McNabb
2. P. Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Pennington
5. Brees
11259. Eli Manning

[nillard]

1.Montana 2.Marino 3.Fouts 4.Elway 5. Farve. I couldn't agree more,with honorable mention to Unitas ..

[guimcharger]

Montana
Dan Marino
Dan Fouts
Johnny Unitas
Brett Farve

[Tomlinson21]

Joe Montana
John Elway
Dan Fouts
Dan Marino
Brett Favre

[geekster]

Fouts, Montana, Elway, Marino, Bradshaw

[kingporterblood]

Moon Montana Elway Marino Fouts

[Chargers Fan]

I can only judge guys like Otto Graham, John Hadl and Johnny Unitas from highlights and the stories of others.

As for QBs I can rate from my own memories...

(In no particular order)
Fouts
Montana
Elway
Marino
Favre

[boltbacker_ed]

Fouts
Montana
Elway
Young
Farve

[Ikeman83]

Whoa, talk about resurrecting a thread from the dead. The last time anyone posted on this was late October '04.

Fouts, Montana, Unitas, Namath, Young, in no particular order.

[Bourne99]

1-Montana
2-Marino
3-Elway
4-Farve
5-Young

Coming up- Brady will eventually make the top 5
New comer will impress all #17 Rivers .....

[gazork]

1- Flutie,
2- Marino,
3- Elway,
4- Moon,
5- Kelly,

and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.
Vick. LOL. Sorry - he's not even top 5 league wide right now - like to watch him run around though (but I bet he's going to be slowing down now).

There have been far too many great QB's for a top 5.

No order,maybe not the best, but my favorites to watch:

Unitas
Jurgenson
Starr
Staubach
Montana
Marino
Farve
Luckman
Bradshaw
Tarkenton
Manning (blechhh)
Elway
Tittle

[gazork]

1. Ryan Leaf
2. Andre Ware
3. Craig Whelihan
4. Akili Smith
5. Cade McNown

You forgot:

Bobby Douglas
Bob Avellini

[Thunderstruck21]

Montana
Marino
Elway
Fouts
Favre

Way Up
Manning- If he can get some rings he may get #1, if not then he can still get behind Marino

Brady- Another one that may get #1

Rivers-Hopefully

[jadeyknoxville]

1. joe montana
2. tom brady
3. terry bradshaw
4. dan fouts
5. ron mexico
(just kidding, but really...warren moon)

[TJ21]

1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Terry Bradshaw
4. Fran Tarkenton
5. Dan Marino

[Merrimanjersey]

Montana
Elway
Marino
Favre
Manning (not Brady)

[Boltdawg]

In comparing QBs only and not what was around them, You have to look at overall ability.

Staubach (And this from a Redskin fan)
Jim Hart
Archie Manning
Unitas
Montana

Next group

Stabler
Fouts
Jurgenson
Ken Anderson
Favre
Elway

PLease note, todays QBs are protected compared to 10 years ago and back. On the other hand the game is sooooo much faster today.

[RIPgriggs]

1. Ryan Leaf
2. Andre Ware
3. Craig Whelihan
4. Akili Smith
5. Cade McNown


haha that agood one

[Mentos]

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Sammy Baugh
3. Joe Montana
4. Roger Staubach
5. John Elway

[HighBoltage]

I'm going to go 1980 - Present since I can't accurately assess older qb's not having seen them play.

1) Young - Best QB rating of all time and a SB mvp
2) Montana - 4 rings and 2nd best QB rating
3) Elway - (cringe) Phenomenal leader and arm with 2 rings
4) Favre - Great arm and playmaker with 1 ring
5) Moon - No rings but killer stats and a Tecmo Bowl favorite

[RIPgriggs]

elway
bradshaw
montana
young
rivers

[gazork]

In comparing QBs only and not what was around them, You have to look at overall ability.



Next group

Stabler
Fouts
Jurgenson
Ken Anderson
Favre
Elway

PLease note, todays QBs are protected compared to 10 years ago and back. On the other hand the game is sooooo much faster today.

I forgot Stabler - add him to my list - the best lefty ever - dangerous. Oakland when they were a great team.

Good points about then and now.

[Totally Bolted]

1) Montana
2) Marino
3) Unitas
4) Fouts
5) Bradshaw / Elway tie

My Honorable Mention
Humpheries!

[kingporterblood]

Hadle,Fouts,Humphries,Brees,Rivers

[Balboa 1961]

Hadle,Fouts,Humphries,Brees,Rivers

Do you mean John Hadl?

[BoltMark]

The QB position has changed a lot in 70 years so I've broken mine into two different eras:


Super Bowl Era:

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Steve Young
4. Dan Fouts
5. John Elway

Honorable Mentions: Tom Brady, Bradshaw, Staubach, Tarkington

Pre-Super Bowl Era:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Otto Graham
3. Bart Starr
4. Sammy Baugh
5. Milt Plum

Honorable Mentions: Luckman, Hadl

[JoeMcRugby]

The QB position has changed a lot in 70 years so I've broken mine into two different eras:


Super Bowl Era:

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Steve Young
4. Dan Fouts
5. John Elway

Honorable Mentions: Tom Brady, Bradshaw, Staubach, Tarkington

Pre-Super Bowl Era:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Otto Graham
3. Bart Starr
4. Sammy Baugh
5. Milt Plum

Honorable Mentions: Luckman, Hadl
Youch!! Milt Plum over Hall of Famer Sonny Jurgenson? How about Detroit Lions Hall of Famer and NFL championship QB Bobby Layne? Hall of Famer Len Dawson? Hall of Famer and NFL championship QB Norm Van Brocklin?

Otherwise, your lists have a lot of merit. :Beer:

[BoltMark]

Youch!! Milt Plum over Hall of Famer Sonny Jurgenson? How about Detroit Lions Hall of Famer and NFL championship QB Bobby Layne? Hall of Famer Len Dawson? Hall of Famer and NFL championship QB Norm Van Brocklin?

Otherwise, your lists have a lot of merit. :Beer:

I know, it's hard to make a list of just 5, all those are great, great players, I just think Plum never got his just due! I forgot all about Van Brocklin, he was insane! Thinking about it further, Norm should be #5 on that list.

[SP17BOLT]

1-Montana
2-Marino
3-Elway
4-Farve
5-Young

Coming up- Brady will eventually make the top 5
New comer will impress all #17 Rivers .....

sounds right to me

[SP17BOLT]

Montana
Elway
Marino
Favre
Manning (not Brady)


manning could pass all of these to be 1 all time if he keeps this up

[JoeMcRugby]

1-Montana
2-Marino
3-Elway
4-Farve
5-Young

Coming up- Brady will eventually make the top 5
New comer will impress all #17 Rivers .....
sounds right to me
The quarterback position wasn't invented until the 1980s? ;)

[PoeticlySkuac]

manning could pass all of these to be 1 all time if he keeps this up

Manning although very good, will always be remembered as a Marino, never had the allstar cast on both ends of the ball to win a championship. Marino is the best pure passer ever as far as I'm concerned.

QB means so much, it mean leadership, game changing, cannon, numbers, and unfortunately I'm young so I don't get to look at the Stablers, Tarketons, Johnny U's, the incredible Joe Montana pre surgery, Bradshaw.

But from everything I've seen from the old days the most fluent and best leader cool under pressure QB would be now this means present day from like 95 on, I'd say Elway, Aikman, then Brady.

Stabler was prolly one of the best QBs to be forgotten. There is so much that goes into a QB how can you say one QB ranks any higher then another. Bradshaw was obviously a great, Montana also. Brady could end up being the next great with Manning acting as the next Marino breaking all the records and getting nothing but instant hall of fame.

McNabb will never be a great nor Culpeper, they are the most overrated QBs in the nation. Neither of them have done anything worth meriting an all time even mention. Vick is such a great WR with such a good arm. He'll be remembered as a bust. No QBs outside of Manning and Brady will be remembered. I don't think Big Ben can repeat with out the Bus. Rivers may change the game but we shall see. A. Smith has no chance with that line. Carr lays on his back to much. E.Manning was the best thing that ever happened to the chargers we got the best QB of the draft plus an extra 1st round and third round pick, plus Manning from my standpoint is a bust cuz he wasn't a number 1 overall pick. Brees is only an above average QB. I think McNair is a very good QB extremely underrated, the year he had a team he went toe superbowl and lost by a yard. I'd say the only QB that I can see going on to be a great presently outside of Manning and Brady is Warner and he is way past his prime. The other QBs either aren't going to be from my stand point or havn't been around long enough to see. Oh Favre although I don't really consider him playing so much as playing catch with the defense.

[lamigra1706]

My top five.

Montana (Awesome Pocket Passer)
Steve Young (Good Pocket and awesome running quarterback)
Dan Marino (Strongest Passer)
Brett Farve (Great running Quarterback)
Dan Fouts (Never won superbowl but awesome pocket passer & awesome yardage gained due to his awesome recievers)

[tbell ncsu]

in no order:
- montana
- elway
- aikman
- marino
- young

* manning is about there.
** i have full confidence rivers will be mentioned in all-time top 10 lists before his career is even halfway through.

[Electrocution]

1. Marino(Greatest Passer Ever! Although never had a decent running back to play with.)
2. Unitas
3. Favre(Even though he was beaten by Elway in SB 32, still has better stats.)
4.Elway(Even though his horse face made me sick still a great quarterback.)
5.Fouts(Had to pick at least one charger.)

[Alibell1]

1) Fouts, when you take everything into consideration, he has to take the top spot. Just try and imagine what he could have done with a consistently good line, a good RB, have Joiner K Winslow Sr. JJ from when he started QBing to when he retired and even just a decent defense throughout his career. I think they would have been the most dominate team ever. Of course this is not a perfect world and that did not happen, but if you judge it on a sliding scale trying to picture what his career would have been like with lets say the 49rs, I think he wins hands down.

2) Montana
3) Elway
4) Rodger Stauback.( hope I spelled it right) <and yes that is a cut in paste i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif
5) Farve and Young tied
6) LT, got to thrown in the only guy I know of with a perfect QB rating i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

John B.

John Elway would be the proud owner of 5 Super Bowl rings had he had these things in the 80's. Many people like to forget that Elway was the only thing that helped keep the Broncos respectable in the 80's.

[Mentos]

Sonny Jurgensen may have been the best pure passer ever.

In his first book, John Madden said Ken Stabler was the best QB he ever coached (he also coached Daryle Lamonica who was a two-time AFL league MVP). He said the two best QBs he coached against were Joe Namath and Terry Bradshaw, in that order.

[JoeMcRugby]

John Elway would be the proud owner of 5 Super Bowl rings had he had these things in the 80's. Many people like to forget that Elway was the only thing that helped keep the Broncos respectable in the 80's.

Are you sure about that? Elway would have beaten the Giants (who beat the Broncos 39-20), the Redskins (who beat the Broncos 42-10) and the Montana-led 49ers (who beat the Broncos 55-10)? They certainly would have had a far better chance at winning, but there is no guarantee that the blowout losses would have been turned into Ws.

No doubt the only reason that the only reason the Donks were in those games to take their shellackings was due to the greatness of Elway.

Too bad Elway couldn't have lost in the AFC Championship games in those 3 seasons. Then he'd be "the greatest" instead of having those 3 losses on his resume. After all, 2 Super Bowl wins in 2 appearances is "better" than 2 Super Bowl wins in 5 appearances. ;)

[Boltz2175]

Elway
Montana
Marino
Favre
Moon

[ChargeEmUp]

1:Young
2:Montana
3:Moon
4:Aikman
5:Marino

[gazork]

Manning although very good, will always be remembered as a Marino, never had the allstar cast on both ends of the ball to win a championship. Marino is the best pure passer ever as far as I'm concerned.



I think you're right about Marino being the best pure passer - arm strength, quick release, accuracy. I can remember seeing him in a few games his senior year and it was pretty obvious that he was unique for a college QB.

I'm old enough to have seen Unitas, Jurgenson, Starr ... I don't know who the best QB was but no one could wing the ball like Marino.

[Satcong_21]

i totally forgot about joe montana, sorry joe you are definately in my top five(just replaced jim kelly at number 5)

You made me smile...As I am a 49ers hater.....:D

[jimnei]

In no particular order:
Aikman, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Bradshaw... with Favre as a tough omission

[ryry2104]

1- Flutie,
2- Marino,
3- Elway,
4- Moon,
5- Kelly,

and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.

no offense or anything but i don't even think i would put flutie at top 15

and obviously ur a big CFL fan bcuz ur from Canada and u have 2 former CFL QB's in top 5

[Chargeroo]

I know, it's hard to make a list of just 5, all those are great, great players, I just think Plum never got his just due! I forgot all about Van Brocklin, he was insane! Thinking about it further, Norm should be #5 on that list.
Milt Plum had 122 TD's and 127 INT's - that could be why he's "never been given his due".

[Shamrock]

1- Flutie,
2- Marino,
3- Elway,
4- Moon,
5- Kelly,

and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.
Hi FF#1 !!!

Where ya' been?

[Chargeroo]

Gannon
Stabler
Marc Wilson
Plunkett
Lamonica

ok, seriously... :D

Unitas
Bradshaw
Montana
Marino
Elway
(I'm glad to have seen three of these guys in their prime.)

Honorable mentions to Steve Young and Brett FavreI'm so old that I saw all of them in their prime. I put Unitas at number one. but ohhh that Marc Wilson! ......... He was every bit as good as Walker Gillette.

[bolt dude]

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Jonny Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young
6. Brett Farve
7. Jim Kelly
8. Dan Fouts
9. Tom Brady
10. Peyton Manning
11. Kurt Warner
12. Troy Aikman
13. Terry Bradshaw
14. Bart Starr
15. Bob Griese
16. Fran Tarkantan
17. Phil Simms
18. Randal Cunningham
19. Warren Moon
20. Joe Namath

[JoeMcRugby]

no offense or anything but i don't even think i would put flutie at top 15

and obviously ur a big CFL fan bcuz ur from Canada and u have 2 former CFL QB's in top 5

Top 15?

I'd be hardpressed to have Flutie in the Top 100 NFL QBs.

[TJ21]

What's more important in consideration? Rings or Stats?

[Chargeroo]

What's more important in consideration? Rings or Stats?
Some of the greatest QB's ever to play didn't get a chance at a Super Bowl. Some very mediocre QB's have won the Super Bowl. - Because it takes an entire team to win the Super Bowl. People that judge QB's by rings don't grasp the "team" part of football.

[BoltMark]

Milt Plum had 122 TD's and 127 INT's - that could be why he's "never been given his due".

Sammy Baugh 187 TDs, 203 INTS

Joe Namath 173 TDs, 220 INTS

Otto Graham 88 TDs, 94 INTS

George Blanda 236 TDs, 277 INTS

John Hadl 244 TDs, 268 INTS

Bobby Layne 196 TDs, 243 INTS

Y.A. Tittle 212 TDs, 221 INTS

Norm Van Brocklin 173 TDs, 178 INTs

Ken Stabler 194 TDs, 222 INTs


All of these guys were still pretty good, regardless of their career TD/INT ratio. (Okay, maybe not Namath so much.)

[chargerfan49]

1.Elway -took 3 teams with no talent to th SB
2.Montana - obvious
3.Unitas - strictly from game film
4.Aikman - never gets his due
5.Brady - The best in the league now and is only 26

Marino is the best to never win and Manning is a loser!!!!!!!!!!!

[gazork]

Sammy Baugh 187 TDs, 203 INTS

Joe Namath 173 TDs, 220 INTS

Otto Graham 88 TDs, 94 INTS

George Blanda 236 TDs, 277 INTS

John Hadl 244 TDs, 268 INTS

Bobby Layne 196 TDs, 243 INTS

Y.A. Tittle 212 TDs, 221 INTS

Norm Van Brocklin 173 TDs, 178 INTs

Ken Stabler 194 TDs, 222 INTs


All of these guys were still pretty good, regardless of their career TD/INT ratio. (Okay, maybe not Namath so much.)


Good point - another factor with these stats is how many of the intercepts came earlier in careers and how each of these guys improved later on (and in some cases, just carried careers too long).

[JoeMcRugby]

Sammy Baugh 187 TDs, 203 INTS

Joe Namath 173 TDs, 220 INTS

Otto Graham 88 TDs, 94 INTS

George Blanda 236 TDs, 277 INTS

John Hadl 244 TDs, 268 INTS

Bobby Layne 196 TDs, 243 INTS

Y.A. Tittle 212 TDs, 221 INTS

Norm Van Brocklin 173 TDs, 178 INTs

Ken Stabler 194 TDs, 222 INTs


All of these guys were still pretty good, regardless of their career TD/INT ratio. (Okay, maybe not Namath so much.)
I see your point, but it was a totally different ballgame back then. It's totally unacceptable for a modern NFL QB to have more interceptions than TD passes.

The game has changed in the last three year with rules that put skirts on WRs, let alone the dozens of changes in rules since those QBs were on the field of play.

Back in the days of the quoted Hall of Fame QBs, defensive backs were allowed to bump and hit receivers all the way down the field and chop & axe the WRs at the line of scrimmage. I wonder how the West Coast offense would operate when all of their WRs are on the ground after the snap of the ball?;)

The other thing to take into consideration: defensive backs were allowed to clothesline receivers - with or without the ball. Look at the old films - the ball would be five yards over the WR and 5 yards past him and the DB would clothesline tackle him. No penalty.

Another thing to consider: the QB was another player back then. No such thing as no blows to the head or no hitting the QB after the ball is out of his hand unless the pass rusher is within one step. The QBs got pummelled on almost every play.

That's why it's close to a farce in comparing passing statistics between different eras of football. The NFL has intentionally made rules every few years to "help" the passing game.

All of those Hall of Fame QBs would have thrived in the NFL of today that they would view as being close to touch football.

[BoltMark]

I see your point, but it was a totally different ballgame back then. It's totally unacceptable for a modern NFL QB to have more interceptions than TD passes.

The game has changed in the last three year with rules that put skirts on WRs, let alone the dozens of changes in rules since those QBs were on the field of play.

Back in the days of the quoted Hall of Fame QBs, defensive backs were allowed to bump and hit receivers all the way down the field and chop & axe the WRs at the line of scrimmage. I wonder how the West Coast offense would operate when all of their WRs are on the ground after the snap of the ball?;)

The other thing to take into consideration: defensive backs were allowed to clothesline receivers - with or without the ball. Look at the old films - the ball would be five yards over the WR and 5 yards past him and the DB would clothesline tackle him. No penalty.

Another thing to consider: the QB was another player back then. No such thing as no blows to the head or no hitting the QB after the ball is out of his hand unless the pass rusher is within one step. The QBs got pummelled on almost every play.

That's why it's close to a farce in comparing passing statistics between different eras of football. The NFL has intentionally made rules every few years to "help" the passing game.

All of those Hall of Fame QBs would have thrived in the NFL of today that they would view as being close to touch football.

You covered a lot of very good points of why it's extremely hard to compare QBs of different eras. CBs can barely get near a WR these days without getting flagged, whereas in years past defenders were given a lot more leeway. I remember Ronnie Lott (who really didn't play that long ago, all things considered) saying that he wouldn't know how to play the game now with all of the "offense friendly" rules that have been implemented.

[SuperMatt]

Sammy Baugh 187 TDs, 203 INTS

Joe Namath 173 TDs, 220 INTS

Otto Graham 88 TDs, 94 INTS

George Blanda 236 TDs, 277 INTS

John Hadl 244 TDs, 268 INTS

Bobby Layne 196 TDs, 243 INTS

Y.A. Tittle 212 TDs, 221 INTS

Norm Van Brocklin 173 TDs, 178 INTs

Ken Stabler 194 TDs, 222 INTs


All of these guys were still pretty good, regardless of their career TD/INT ratio. (Okay, maybe not Namath so much.)

Just to give some of you a bit of perspective. Here's a bit of info on Otto Graham that made my jaw drop.

Upon joining the Browns in 1946 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946), he was switched to quarterback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback), where he would lead the team to the league championship game in each of his 10 seasons, winning on seven occasions. During the AAFC's four-year existence, the Browns won the championship each year as Graham threw for 10,085 yards and 86 touchdowns and rushed for 11 more.

In the league 10 years, won the championship seven times and was in the championship game every year? Incredible. IMO, this guy cannot be left of the greatest QB list...ever.

[BoltMark]

Just to give some of you a bit of perspective. Here's a bit of info on Otto Graham that made my jaw drop.

Upon joining the Browns in 1946 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946), he was switched to quarterback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback), where he would lead the team to the league championship game in each of his 10 seasons, winning on seven occasions. During the AAFC's four-year existence, the Browns won the championship each year as Graham threw for 10,085 yards and 86 touchdowns and rushed for 11 more.

In the league 10 years, won the championship seven times and was in the championship game every year? Incredible. IMO, this guy cannot be left of the greatest QB list...ever.

I agree wholeheartedly, Otto was a stud amongst studs, I put him second only to Unitas as far as pre-superbowl era QBs (and and very close second at that). He, like a lot of QBs played too long and didn't have the continually "offense friendly" rules of following years, so on paper, some of his career stats (like TD/INT ratio) don't look all that impressive. Averaging over 2,500 passing yards back then (with a shorter schedule remember) would be like averaging over 4,000 yards today, and he'd probably have a lot fewer INTs.

[sundeval]

1.Elway -took 3 teams with no talent to th SB
2.Montana - obvious
3.Unitas - strictly from game film
4.Aikman - never gets his due
5.Brady - The best in the league now and is only 26

Marino is the best to never win and Manning is a loser!!!!!!!!!!!

As for Elway having no talent, thats not true. He only had the leagues best RB at his disposal in Terrell Davis, a couple of good WRs and IMO, a pretty decent defense. Here is my ratings based on talent and winning.(doesnt mean Super Bowls)

1. Dan Marino its a shame he doesnt have a ring
2. Joe Montana best big game qb ever
3. John Elway most athletic ive seen and the real cpt. comeback
4. Roger Staubach going on what i saw as a kid and highlight film
5. Warren Moon too bad he wasted 5 years in the CFL
6. Brett Favre playing on monday night after losing his father..wow
7. Johnny Unitas going on legend alone, have only seen highlights
8. Steve Young team didnt miss a beat when Joe left
9. Jim Kelly c'mon, he did make the big game 4 times in a row
10. Peyton Manning he will win a big game or two, you'll see


As for the guy who said Flutie was one of the top QB's all time.......definitely in the CFL. As for the NFL, no way, there was a reason he was exiled to Canada, and thats coming from someone who is Canadian. Oh yeah, cant forget honorable mention to Bradshaw. The crap that guy put up with from the fans and still he won 4 Super Bowls along with 2 MVP's....he has to make some part of the list.

[JoeMcRugby]

1.Elway -took 3 teams with no talent to th SB
2.Montana - obvious
3.Unitas - strictly from game film
4.Aikman - never gets his due
5.Brady - The best in the league now and is only 26


As for Elway having no talent, thats not true. He only had the leagues best RB at his disposal in Terrell Davis, a couple of good WRs and IMO, a pretty decent defense. Here is my ratings based on talent and winning.(doesnt mean Super Bowls)

sundeval, I believe chargerfan49 was talking about Elway's first three forays at the Super Bowl: 1986, 1987 and 1989.

Counting the Super Bowl winning squads, Elway took 5 Bronco teams to the Super Bowl - and won 2 when the surrounding talent was up to snuff.

[WaywardCharger]

I am AMAZED that George Blanda is not on anyone list?

He had 400+ yard games LONG before it was considered somewhat normal.

He lead several teams to championship games, and played for 26 years. He also played as a kicker and a linebacker during his stint.

Yes, he played for the Faiders (Elway played for the Broncos, and many here are riding his jock...)...but he was still George Blanda, one of the Best QB's of all time.

Had he played in a modern style game, where receivers and QB's received preferential treatment they do today due to the rules of the sport now, he would have been a match for Montana, Elway or Marino.)

WC

[Boltdawg]

Otto Grahamn has fewer TD passes because of a certain RB that could not be stopped. Why pass in the red zone when you have Jim Brown and Company to pound it in over and over and over.

Blanda was a nice AFL player, which was a wide open style offense. His bouts in Houston and Oakland were very good, but when the day was over he was still the second option at QB on his team. I would equate him behind a Jurgenson or Fouts. Sonny is my all-time favorite. This guy would show up sauced, play a great game and head back to the party.

[WaywardCharger]

He was the second at the end of his career...at the beginning, he was the first. Heck, even Montana ended up being the second quarterback at the end of his career.

WC

[JoeMcRugby]

Otto Grahamn has fewer TD passes because of a certain RB that could not be stopped. Why pass in the red zone when you have Jim Brown and Company to pound it in over and over and over.

Otto Graham never played with Jim Brown.

Graham retired after the 1955 season.

Jim Brown's first season in the NFL was in 1957.

[Satcong_21]

What's more important in consideration? Rings or Stats?

This could be another interesting thread...

I say Rings since we already experienced in Stats with Dan Fouts back in the day...No need to have another Marino or Manning...Just win, baby! :D

[Chargeroo]

I am AMAZED that George Blanda is not on anyone list?

He had 400+ yard games LONG before it was considered somewhat normal.

He lead several teams to championship games, and played for 26 years. He also played as a kicker and a linebacker during his stint.

Yes, he played for the Faiders (Elway played for the Broncos, and many here are riding his jock...)...but he was still George Blanda, one of the Best QB's of all time.

Had he played in a modern style game, where receivers and QB's received preferential treatment they do today due to the rules of the sport now, he would have been a match for Montana, Elway or Marino.)

WCGeorge Blanda was a backup QB more years than he was a starter. He was one of the all time great kickers though.

[Satcong_21]

Gannon
Stabler
Marc Wilson
Plunkett
Lamonica

ok, seriously... :D

Unitas
Bradshaw
Montana
Marino
Elway
(I'm glad to have seen three of these guys in their prime.)


Honorable mentions to Steve Young and Brett Favre

What? No Jeff George, Hostetler, Todd Marijuanovich for you? or better yet Vince Evans??? :D

[WaywardCharger]

What? No Jeff George, Hostetler, Todd Marijuanovich for you? or better yet Vince Evans??? :D

Don't forget Tuiasosopo and Ryan Leaf! :nono:

WC

[boltfannvegas]

1 - Elway (being a donk almost drops him off the list)
2 - Johnny U
3 - Montana
4 - Terry Bradshaw (4 rings noone else at the position)
5 - Steve Young


Vick...please average at best. he is the poor man's steve young except he can't throw and does not have the head to play qb

:Bolt: GO BOLTS

[ChargerSmokey]

You forgot FOUTS supposed fan...

[Mentos]

4 - Terry Bradshaw (4 rings noone else at the position)


Montana also has four.
Starr has five.

[HeadTrip]

Montana also has four.
Starr has five.

None of which is important when comparing individual greatness in the ultimate team sport.

[HighBoltage]

None of which is important when comparing individual greatness in the ultimate team sport.
Are you saying that because their teams won the SB's that doesn't make them great? Not sure what you mean exactly.

Spawning off of that I'll say that a QB has to have the ability to direct his team to score, so even if he doesn't have 9 million passing yards does that make him less than the ones who do?

Personally I based my list on a combination of stats and wins. I even put Warren Moon on my list though he didn't win the big one.

[HeadTrip]

Are you saying that because their teams won the SB's that doesn't make them great? Not sure what you mean exactly.

Spawning off of that I'll say that a QB has to have the ability to direct his team to score, so even if he doesn't have 9 million passing yards does that make him less than the ones who do?

Personally I based my list on a combination of stats and wins. I even put Warren Moon on my list though he didn't win the big one.

I'm saying you can be the greatest of all time and never sniff the super bowl if you are unfortunate enough to get stuck on a crappy team. On the flip side, you can get put in the greatest of situations for a few years and rack up the SB wins dispite being average.

Both are extreme examples, but ring true in the game of football.

The point is that winning in football is done by the team, not the individual. Winning the superbowl has nothing to do with how great the player is, but it has everything to do with how great the team is. I don't like comparing championships because in reality all it's saying is "this guy's team was better than this guys."

[JCDavey]

brady will be top 5 by the time he's done

[Mentos]

And all I was doing was correcting something in post 102. I wasn't making any judgments.

[HeadTrip]

And all I was doing was correcting something in post 102. I wasn't making any judgments.

I know, you just posted the right thing at the wrong time so to speak :).

[Oakland RaYduzz]

1.Montana
2.Marino
3.Plunkett
4.Elway
5.Moon

my top 5

[boltfannvegas]

Montana also has four.
Starr has five.

Opps you are right. Montana. Starr 3 before league merger. but point well taken.

GO BOLTS :Bolt:

[El Relámpago]

1. Montana
2. Bradshaw
3. Young
4. Aikman
5. Marino/Fouts (so i'm a homer...so what?)

I hate Elway! So he does't make my list! It's my list, so I'll put who I want!:D

[Allstotler]

1.Montana
2.Marino
3.Elway
4.Fouts
5.Young

Young, just because of that spectacular run!!!

[dwhitfield]

1. Brees
2. Humphries
3. Fouts
4. Flutie
5. maybe Rivers? see how he does

[Oakland RaYduzz]

1. Brees
2. Humphries
3. Fouts
4. Flutie
5. maybe Rivers? see how he does

your extremely biased list led me to think 2 things...

1. you dont know anything about the NFL or its all time Greats

2. You dont know that there are 31 other teams out there other than the chargers

[TJ21]

your extremely biased list led me to think 2 things...

1. you dont know anything about the NFL or its all time Greats

2. You dont know that there are 31 other teams out there other than the chargers

I think he was joking.

[BoltzaQtion]

With all the talk of QB's and the greatest of all time, it's good to listen to one of the Chargers greatest and his opinion:


http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/jul/16/hadl_sounds_qb_greats/?sports

Hadl sounds off on QB greats

By Tom Keegan (Contact)

Sunday, July 16, 2006

Ever the center of attention without ever trying to be that, cool as can be without necessarily being aware of that, John Hadl enjoys having lunch and dinner at the Eldridge Hotel, where the restaurant, Ten, is named after the number worn by another former Kansas University quarterback of note, Bobby Douglass.

On a recent hot, steamy afternoon, Hadl, No. 21, took comfort in the air conditioning and got into the topic of conversation: quarterbacks. Before offering his opinion on Kerry Meier, the redshirt freshman who figures to be under center for every game he’s healthy over the next four years, Hadl shared stories on quarterbacks whose stars crossed with his over the years.

“In my opinion, the greatest quarterback of all-time is John Elway, and I really, really believe that,” Hadl said. “He took two teams to the Super Bowl that had no business being there.”

Hadl knew Elway long before that. He knew him when he was benched. Can you imagine that: John Elway benched? Hadl couldn’t at the time, and he was very close to the situation. Working under head coach Dan Reeves for the Denver Broncos in 1983, Hadl was Elway’s first NFL quarterbacks coach.

Elway had forced a trade from Indianapolis, which took him with the first pick of the draft, because he did not want to play for the Colts. Veteran quarterback Steve DeBerg was on hand to help break in the quarterback out of Stanford.

Reeves, Hadl said, wanted to start the season with DeBerg under center.

“The rest of us wanted Elway, so he started Elway,” Hadl said. “We went into Pittsburgh. Elway didn’t have a good game, but he did just enough to win the game, which was a great sign. The next Monday at the team meeting, Reeves comes in front of the whole team, stands up, and says, ‘We’re going to start DeBerg this week. John didn’t have a good game. He’s not ready yet, and we’re not going to start him.’ I knew nothing about it until he stood up and said it.”

Hadl said he was shocked.

“It was an easy decision,” Hadl said. “I don’t know what Reeves was thinking. Reeves was a hell of a guy, but he’s not a people guy.”

Hadl wasn’t the only one who had trouble believing his ears and strongly disagreed with the choice and the way it was handled.

“Let’s say we’re looking at the stage,” Hadl said. “This way’s the locker room (points left) and this way’s the parking lot (points right). I’m sitting back watching Elway because I know how he was feeling. He gets up and goes out to the parking lot and I follow him out. He’s all the way out to his car and I said, ‘John, what are you doing?’ He said, ‘(Expletive) this (different expletive). I’m going back to my family. (Expletive) these guys.’

“I said, ‘Wait a minute. Wait a minute. We have to talk about this. You have to realize everybody has been criticized in his life at least one time. You have to suck it up. You have to be tough. These things happen all the time. You’re going to get hit with things like this all the time.’ I kept talking and talking and whatever I said, I finally got him back in there. His old man called me that night and thanked me. He said, ‘That kid was leaving.’ True story.”

The very next season, Hadl coached another Hall of Fame quarterback, this time as head coach, this time in the USFL. Steve Young was the quarterback for the Los Angeles Express.

“We had a great young team, boy,” Hadl said. “If that thing had hung on, we could have done some great things. Young was great. Great competitor and a super athlete. He didn’t have the arm Elway had, but he was accurate and on time and he could run a 4.5 40. Just a super athlete. He could run like hell and throw it on the run. He did some things running that I’d never seen a quarterback do.”

As the financially ruined league was deteriorating, the Express had so many injuries at running back, Hadl started Young at running back.

“He had a hell of a game, too,” Hadl said. “We had a good time in that league. There were a lot of good coaches.”

George Allen, Marv Levy, Jim Mora, Pepper Rodgers and Steve Spurrier were among the big names to coach in the league.

Hadl remains good friends with the man who goes down in history as the face of a league that was a predecessor of sorts to the USFL, except that the AFL made it, ultimately merging with the NFL.

“Just watching Joe Namath was something,” Hadl said. “When he was really good, when his knees felt good, he had the best release of anybody, and he had those big hands. When his knees started bothering him, that slowed him down a lot.”

On a personal level, Hadl said he and Namath are, “pretty close. Great guy. Great guy. He’s really doing a great job raising his girls (after a divorce that took Namath by surprise).”

Jack Kemp, the Republican candidate for the Vice Presidency in the 1996 election and a former NFL quarterback, was Hadl’s roommate when the Lawrence native was an NFL rookie.

“I’ll never forget,” Hadl said. “I came in my training camp room and he was laying there reading a book about Barry Goldwater. I said, ‘Why are you reading that?’ He said he worked for Goldwater. I didn’t know what he was talking about at the time. I didn’t know he wanted to be president at the time.”

Hadl never aimed quite that high. Success for the KU football program always has ranked high among his hopes and dreams. He’s a huge backer of Mark Mangino, and to hear what he has to say about Meier is to believe Hadl has faith exciting years are on the horizon.

Asked to name a quarterback he’s been around who has a similar style to Meier, Hadl went right to the top of his list.

“I’ll tell you, he reminds me kind of Elway as far as instincts and the movement and presence on the field,” Hadl said, not meaning to suggest Meier would be as good as Elway. “I see him in practice all the time, and I knew he was good. Then in that spring game, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I really couldn’t. He was throwing some big-time passes. Those little flat passes thrown on an angle, those are tough throws, they really are. Savvy, good decision making. He’d take off running when he should. He’d throw it away when he should.”

Meier was wearing a red shirt in that game, meaning he didn’t have to worry about facing the heat.

“I don’t think that will factor in with him,” Hadl said. “He’ll probably get better because of it. He’s fast. He’s about the fifth or sixth fastest guy on the team, they say.”

Hadl, an All-American as a halfback and then as a quarterback, wasn’t fast, but he was elusive and had all the intangibles to go with a strong, accurate arm. He said he liked that former KU quarterback Bill Wittemore, an instinctive player who maximized his physical ability, was on hand as one of Meier’s coaches.

“He’ll have a settling effect on Meier,” Hadl said. “They’ll communicate well. He’s a natural. He’ll be a good coach.”

Asked if he missed coaching, Hadl said, “Sometimes.”

When?

“On game day,” he said.

[HeadTrip]

Elway was pretty amazing. I was young when he was winning those SBs and I always rooted for him, especially after that play against Green Bay where he ran twords the endzone and lept into the air while being met by 2 defenders and doing a 180 in mid air.

Like I said, I was young and hadn't yet developed the same distain for the Donkeys that I have today. Although I still like them more than the Duhs.

[ChargerDawg]

Otto Grahamn has fewer TD passes because of a certain RB that could not be stopped. Why pass in the red zone when you have Jim Brown and Company to pound it in over and over and over.

Blanda was a nice AFL player, which was a wide open style offense. His bouts in Houston and Oakland were very good, but when the day was over he was still the second option at QB on his team. I would equate him behind a Jurgenson or Fouts. Sonny is my all-time favorite. This guy would show up sauced, play a great game and head back to the party.

Otto was retired by the time Jim Brown played his first game.

[Nosnilmot]

My top five would be for the funnest to watch. Those qbs that could pull a win out of the lousiest of situations. And also those qbs that are just so in control they beg of you to root against them. They are also only qbs that I got the honor of watching first hand. I hesitate to leave out guys like Dan F., B. Star and that rediculously funny guy from raider country, but I can't comment on them as I've never seen them play in context.

#1 Montana, the guy could be so solid one Sunday that the other team might as well have not shown up. Then if he had an off day and the team got behind, there has never been a qb better at assuring a touchdown drive in less then 40 seconds. He was just awesome to watch, and when he retired it felt the same as when Jordan left basketball the first time. It felt like a different game without him.

#2 Elway. I grew up watching this guy and his team for years. Partly because everyone said I looked and sounded exactly like him. (ouch right?) I never thought so, but maybe that's what made me watch. This guy was another guy that could control the field just by stepping onto it. His team's would fall in line, right behind him. He took his time getting over the SB hump. But once he did, most would agree there was no taking it away from him again. He had put the final pieces together and was going to take out anyone infront of him.

#3 Farve, if the guy is in his groove, get out of the way. The last of the Dons if you ask me. It seems the've broken the mold after this guy. In fact, and I'm sorry to say it, but Farve may have broken the mold himself. As long as I can remember watching him, he played with a smile. Even when he had to try and get 3 scores in two minutes, it was all fun, no work. It seems life has finally broken him a bit, but I havn't forgotten yet and I'm sure we'll see a few more smiles in his probable final year. No one said NFL like Farve.

#4 Doug freakin Flutie. I know he doesn't make it on anyone elses list but every game I got to see with this guy starting in it was at the top of my good time list. A never quit, true diehard football player with the heart of someone 3 feet taller then himself. He made plays out of mud. He made me chuckle at the other team as if I was watching the globetrotters. He could turn a team that was in a tailspin into a team going for gold in a heartbeat.

#5 Marino, a guy I couldn't stand because he always wallupped the team I was rooting for that day. Another guy that could make something out of nothing no matter how ugly it looked. It was like the stars would align when this guy needed them to. (except for those elusive SBs) Did anyone ever think a defense had a chance when he lined his team up within the 10 yard line?

================================================== ==

Soon to jump into this list would be Brady. He finishes games like Montana did and controls a stadium with calm abandon like Elway did.

Next will be P. Manning. Time will tell whether he's able to step through that glass ceiling he is stuck under but he's another commander that really has no equal once he's gotten control of a game. And it can happen so quickly in a game it is scary.

Mcnabb could someday climb this high. As long as his ego stays in check and he becomes part of the team again.

[Chargeroo]

Elway lovers - explain this for a HOFer:

John Elway's Career Super Bowl Statistics:
5 games
50% completion percentage
3 TDs / 8 INTs
QB Rating: 59.3

Did Elway win the Super Bowls or did the Denver running game/defense win it?

[JoeMcRugby]

Elway lovers - explain this for a HOFer:

John Elway's Career Super Bowl Statistics:
5 games
50% completion percentage
3 TDs / 8 INTs
QB Rating: 59.3

Did Elway win the Super Bowls or did the Denver running game/defense win it?

No doubt that the running game combined with a solid defense was what finally put the Donks over the top in 97 and 98.

The Donks were a one-man show in 86, 87 and 89. Elway was put in a position of having to beat three of the stronger NFL teams of recent times (the late 80s Giants, Joe Gibbs' Redskins and Bill Walsh's 49ers) by himself. Not even the great Elway could do that.

Most of Elway's bad Super Bowl stats came in the three aformentioned losses where he had to win it on his own. Just goes to show that one player, no matter how great, can't defeat a great team all by himself.

[Chargeroo]

No doubt that the running game combined with a solid defense was what finally put the Donks over the top in 97 and 98.

The Donks were a one-man show in 86, 87 and 89. Elway was put in a position of having to beat three of the stronger NFL teams of recent times (the late 80s Giants, Joe Gibbs' Redskins and Bill Walsh's 49ers) by himself. Not even the great Elway could do that.

Most of Elway's bad Super Bowl stats came in the three aformentioned losses where he had to win it on his own. Just goes to show that one player, no matter how great, can't defeat a great team all by himself.
Actually, a quick check reveals he had a pretty decent day against the Giants in his first SB. Which only further proves that a QB alone doesn't win a SB. It also proves that people that think all the best QB's are the ones that have won a SB are dead wrong. Winning the Super Bowl is all about the team, the entire team.

[Nosnilmot]

,,, all about the team, the entire team.


Indeed. Does the letters PorR fit in the word team? Anyone know his real attitude, besides the one we've seen in pressconferences?

[Chargeroo]

Otto was retired by the time Jim Brown played his first game.
Otto had Marion Motely.

[BreesLightning]

1- Flutie,
2- Marino,
3- Elway,
4- Moon,
5- Kelly,

and vick to surpass all of them within the next 10 years.

LOL@ vick supassing them, he is the most over rated over hyped QB since ummm ever. Im so glad we traded that pick.

[nccondors45]

THEN...
1)Marino
2)Young
3)Montana
4)Elway
5)Bradshaw

NOW...

1)Tom Brady
2)Payton Manning
3)Brett Farve
4)Drew Brees
5)Eli Manning

[Rivers_owns]

Then:

Marino
Elway
Montana
Young
??? Hard to say

Now:

P.Manning
Brady
Favre
Palmer
Brees

[JCDavey]

now

brady
manning (p)
mcnabb
favre
palmer

[abarthlow]

montana
elway
favre - i loathe him, but....
unitas
fouts / marino / kelly - sorry, no title no greatness