Browns: Winslow on Gates: He’s no Winslow

[joelbolt]

Browns: Winslow on Gates: He’s no Winslow (http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=316858&r=3&subCategoryID=)
Thursday, November 2, 2006
By Steve Doerschuk REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER

BROWNS AT CHARGERS

Sunday, 4:15 p.m.
Qualcomm Stadium, San Diego
TV Channel 19

BEREA The tight end from nowhere is halfway to a stunning somewhere. Antonio Gates can legitimately imagine taking down the "untouchable" tight end standards Kellen Winslow set in San Diego.

Or not?

"I've got all the respect for Gates," Kellen Winslow Jr. said Wednesday, "but he'll never be my father."

Thus did the younger Winslow set the stage for the best sideshow in Sunday's Browns-Chargers game.

"I look at like a heavyweight match," Winslow Jr. said. "It's me vs. Gates."

Gates, 26, has emerged in many minds as the best tight end on earth. Winslow Jr., 23, has more catches (40) than any NFL tight end in 2006.

Winslow Jr. set a stage July 31 by saying injuries have left less than his old self before adding, "I think my 90 percent is better than any tight end out there."

Winslow Jr. didn't wax like a politician when reminded of the comment Wednesday.

"I'm trying to be the best," he said. "I said I was the best. I am the best, and I'm gonna prove it on Sunday."

The elder Kellen Winslow had an injury-shortened career in San Diego. In nine seasons, he caught 541 passes for 6,741 yards and 45 touchdowns.

Gates is in just his fourth season with the Chargers. He has 226 catches for 2,838 yards and 29 touchdowns.

Yet, Winslow Jr. said Gates will never match his father's excellence.

"Nobody will," he said. "I won't. I mean, he's on a whole 'nother level. He made the position. He's not even human."

If Gates isn't superhuman, he is living the impossible dream. He quit football after leaving junior college and played two years of basketball at Kent State. He was right under the Browns' noses in 2003, when he was trying to attract NFL interest because 6-foot-4 is too short to play forward in the NBA. Butch Davis didn't think Gates was worth a seventh-round pick.

Gates opted for San Diego as an undrafted rookie free agent, then began to amaze.

He's having a bit of an off year with a new quarterback, Philip Rivers. One game short of the Chargers' halfway point, he has caught 32 passes for 384 yards and four touchdowns (Winslow has 393 yards, three TDs).

Former Charger and current Brown Steve Heiden is impressed. The eighth-year pro's career year was 43 catches for 401 yards. Heiden bucked some odds to reach the NFL after playing tight end for South Dakota State.

Gates' football activity at Kent State consisted of horsing around in a few practices.

"I can't even imagine doing what he did," Heiden said. "I had enough trouble coming out of NCAA Division II. To not have played college football ... "

Gates caught 24 passes as an undrafted rookie in 2003, broke out with an 81-catch, 964-yard, 13-touchdown 2004, and became a fantasy league icon with an 89-catch, 1,101-yard encore in 2005.

Browns kick return ace Joshua Cribbs got to know Gates at Kent State, where Cribbs was a four-year starter at quarterback.

"You could see some of his football skills in basketball," Cribbs said. "He was elusive, quick. He was good with his hands, good with his feet ... and big ... and could run."

Heading into Sunday's game, Gates leads Winslow Jr. 2,838 career yards to 443, and 29 touchdowns to three.

"Gates, in my opinion, is the best at what he does," Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson said. "He creates such a mismatch on people. He doesn't just ease down the line of scrimmage. He can split out as a receiver and run great routes.

"He's been doing it three years straight. He is considered the best in the business."

Winslow stands behind his view that he's the best tight end in 2006.

"That's not arrogant," he said. "I mean, I am. I know what I can do. They what I can do. The defensive coordinator knows what I can do."

What does Gates do?

"I don't compare the two," Winslow said. "We run very different routes. He has a bigger, stockier body.

"I'm a different type of breed. I'm not really a tight end. I'm not really a receiver. I'm kind of a tweener. They always figure out ways to get me the ball."

Winslow was born in 1983, shortly before his father's fifth season with the Chargers. He was only 4 when the elder Winslow retired, but he more or less grew up with the team.

"I've always dreamed of playing for the Chargers," he said.

How ironic that San Diego found its own nightmare of a tight end in Ohio.

Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com

[Waylon138]

Will this guy ever shut his trap?....I can't belive that he thinks he is the best in the game....they should start teaching these Miami players how to be humble in college so we don't have to listen to their bull**** once they gety in the NFL.

Nobody is better than Gates at the TE position...especially KW2...he thinks just cause his Dad was great it automatically makes him a canidate for the HOF........Give me a break!!!

[loweezy]

At least he's doing better than Vernon Davis, who said he was the best TE. =x

[chargerFan2185]

he can talk all he wants after he takes the record(most tds for a TE in a season) from gates...until then he needs to shut his mouth, open his eyes, and take some notes...because sunday, he going to be school'd!!!!

[Satcong_21]

Got to give K2 credit for NOT dissing the team that drafted him...And god, The Browns were awful at the time and we are not even talking about the weather...
It's true that Gates is not quite yet to be like his dad but he is well on his way to surpass K1's career when AG's career is over. Especially if Gates and some of his SB rings...

[UtahChargerFan]

Rome just said some great smack against Winslow. Just called him Private Winslow. Then he called Gates Colonol (sp?) Gates. It was great.

[JCDavey]

he's going to be your daddy this weekend jr.

[SDFaiderHater]

Will this guy ever shut his trap?....I can't belive that he thinks he is the best in the game....they should start teaching these Miami players how to be humble in college so we don't have to listen to their bull**** once they gety in the NFL.

Nobody is better than Gates at the TE position...especially KW2...he thinks just cause his Dad was great it automatically makes him a canidate for the HOF........Give me a break!!!

He doesnt sound any different then Lights Out, except for the fact that Lights Out has backed up his words with his playing...while Winslow is nothing but a punk...he is right about his dad though. there would be no Gates or gonzalez if it wasnt for him.

[56lightsout56]

that's Hilarious. the truth is K2 is no Gates. that's BIG TIME bulletin board material. I hope the D goes bezerk and separates the ball from K2 several times.

PR will be passing to Gates all day log.

[Chargeroo]

"I look at it as a heavyweight match. It's me vs. Gates," Winslow said Wednesday. "I want to be the best tight end out there, and I've got to go do it on Sunday. You know, Tony's right behind me, Gates is right behind me. So I've got to stay on top."
He's played a handful of games and he's already proclaimed himself better than Gates and Gonzo. He does have a mouth and he doesn't have much common sense. Unfortunatly, our defense has been vulnerable to the TE's this year. The teams with good TE's have been quite successful against us and we'll have three of the starters on defense out for this game. Winslow will probably have a good day.

[Merfinator]

I dearly wish somebody on the defense absolutely rocks him so he'll shut his trap. If he has a big game, I'll be pissed even if we win by 30.

[Shamrock]

Somebody needs to unload on KW2.

Gates is better than the original Kellen Winslow, IMO. They have a different game, but I like Gates' TE version better. He blocks better than Winslow, and he works the middle better than Winslow. KW had more threat in the deep game, but that's the only place he's better than Gates.

[SuperMatt]

He doesnt sound any different then Lights Out, except for the fact that Lights Out has backed up his words with his playing...while Winslow is nothing but a punk...he is right about his dad though. there would be no Gates or gonzalez if it wasnt for him.

I disagree. Lights Out said he was the best, and he was capable of being better than :55: was.

K2 is saying that at 90%, he's better than any other TE in the game. He also states that Gates could never be the player his father was, when Gates is on pace to shatter #80s records.

He's not just arrogant, but extremely cocky and has very little sense in his head. The broken leg on the kickoff his first year was unfortunate. Doing stunts on his motorcycle in a parking lot was downright idiotic. If he played half as much as he talked, maybe he could back it up. I think he'll grab two or three passes this Sunday, but mostly in a non-factor role.

I hope Godfrey gets a shot at him coming over the middle.

[MadMadigan]

I disagree. Lights Out said he was the best, and he was capable of being better than :55: was.

I think Merriman is an awesome player!! But to suggest that he's better than Seau was with the Chargers. well i disagree, Nobody could read offenses like Seau, not even Merriman. When Merriman can do that. then i will concede he's better. Seau was part of nearly every defensive play because he knew what was coming. Merriman is one of the best in the league but he's not quite there yet.

[SP17BOLT]

Winslow Jr will be taught after this weekend who is the best TE.

[GoTomlinson]

From his ranting and raving about being a solider to his Evil Knievel motorcycle skills, Winslow Jr. is an IDIOT!!!

I'm sick and tired of all these unproven players calling themselves the BEST. Vernon Davis and Winslow Jr. need to take a page out of LT's book and LET YOUR GAME DO THE TALKING. As a matter of fact, I don't recall Gates telling everyone he's the best (EVEN THOUGH IMHO he certainly is). Respect is earned not given or taken. If he wants to be called the best TE then he needs to prove it. Good luck, as long as the Chargers have GATES!!

After his breakout year, reporters questioned Gates on what he thought of Tony Gonzalez. He had nothing but respect for the veteran. Whether Gates really believes it or not he went out of his way to say Gonzalez is the best at the position. We will see how far Winslow Jr. will go in his career seeing that it is his third season already.

[ftwbolt]

I think Merriman is an awesome player!! But to suggest that he's better than Seau was with the Chargers. well i disagree, Nobody could read offenses like Seau, not even Merriman. When Merriman can do that. then i will concede he's better. Seau was part of nearly every defensive play because he knew what was coming. Merriman is one of the best in the league but he's not quite there yet.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt
I disagree. Lights Out said he was the best, and he was capable of being better than was.

I think Merriman's words were "that he Wants To Be Better Than Seau" and "He Had the Mind Set that he is the Best LB in the NFL".

More on Big Mouth from the Beacon Journal (http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/sports/15908807.htm)

[[QUOTEWinslow looking to crash Gates' party
Browns tight end says game against Chargers to be personal challenge
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sportswriter
BEREA - Fans have heard all the talk that NFL games are never about one player facing another player.

Kellen Winslow seems to disagree. At least he does this week, as the Browns travel to San Diego to play the Chargers.

``I look at it like it's a heavyweight match,'' Winslow said Wednesday. ``It's me vs. Gates.''

``Gates'' would be Antonio Gates, a former Kent State basketball star who took the NFL world into his palm by trying out for and making the Chargers as an undrafted tight end.

Winslow continued: ``I want to be the best tight end out there. Got to do it on Sunday. Tony (Gonzalez) is right behind me. Gates is right behind me. So I got to stay on top.''

By on top, Winslow does not mean on top of the list for receptions by a tight end.

``The best overall,'' he said. ``I'm trying to be the best. I said I was the best. I am the best. And I'm going to prove it on Sunday.''

Got it.

Gates took a year to get acclimated to the NFL game, then caught 81 and 89 passes with 23 touchdowns the past two years, which coincidentally was a time Winslow sat out due to injuries.

One of those injuries was caused by a motorcycle accident, and it did serious damage to Winslow's knee. In training camp, he said he'd never get back to what he was, and at best, the knee would be 90 percent.

Then he added that he felt 90 percent of him was better than any tight end in the league.

Has he heard about that remark from a lot of other players?

``No,'' Winslow said matter of factly. ``Because I am. That's not being arrogant. I am. I know what I can do. They know what I can do. The defensive coordinator knows what I can do.

``They're not going to match me up man for man. They're going to double me. They're going to do what they did to Tony. They're going to try to double him on third down and in the red zone, and I'm ready for that.

``Double coverage can't stop me.''

OK, then.

Sunday's game is a homecoming for Winslow. He grew up in the San Diego area, and his father had his hall of fame career with the Chargers.

He said he is not bothered in the least that Gates is gaining fame in his father's stadium and wearing his father's jersey (though with a different number).

``I got all the respect for Gates, but he'll never be my father,'' he said. ``Nobody will. I won't. He's on a whole other level. He made the tight end position.''

Winslow and Gates are two of the league's best tight ends. At 6-foot-4 and 260 pounds, Gates is slightly bigger than Winslow, who is listed at 6-4, 248 pounds.

Winslow leads the league in catches by a tight end with 40. Gates is adjusting to a new quarterback in Philip Rivers and has 32 catches -- 19 in the past three games.

``I don't think we're alike at all,'' Winslow said, ``except for the speed factor. He plays basketball out there. I compare myself more to a (Jeremy) Shockey.''

Gates' basketball background has helped him be one of the more adept in the league at using his body to catch passes. Gates also seems to run more downfield routes, though Winslow showed what he could do against the New York Jets when he got down the field for a 30-yard touchdown reception.

By most measures, Winslow is having a very good season. But he said he's looking for that breakout game -- and he showed how closely he pays attention to the league's other tight ends.

``I haven't had a 100-yard game yet,'' he said. ``Tony's had two. I'm trying to get up there. I'm trying to have some touchdowns, not just one. I'm trying to be the best, like I said.''

Winslow does not feel, though, that he has silenced those who criticized him for his training camp ``90 percent'' statement.

``Not at all,'' he said. ``Just got to keep going. When you play for the Browns right now, you don't get a lot of pub. I don't even know if (people) know what I'm doing. It doesn't' even matter. I've got to prove it against a good team like the Chargers, the Ravens.

``I've got to ball out.''[/QUOTE]

[crossfire]

For some reason this sounds like a trap to me. Seems like K2 is running his mouth knowing that Rivers will want to hook up with Gates a couple of times just to prove a point and then they get one of their corners or linebackers to jump his route and get an easy pick. I think they are just trying to get our rookie quarterback to make a mistake.

[Chargeroo]

For some reason this sounds like a trap to me. Seems like K2 is running his mouth knowing that Rivers will want to hook up with Gates a couple of times just to prove a point and then they get one of their corners or linebackers to jump his route and get an easy pick. I think they are just trying to get our rookie quarterback to make a mistake.Winslow Jr. isn't all that smart.

[benji929]

For some reason this sounds like a trap to me. Seems like K2 is running his mouth knowing that Rivers will want to hook up with Gates a couple of times just to prove a point and then they get one of their corners or linebackers to jump his route and get an easy pick. I think they are just trying to get our rookie quarterback to make a mistake.

I don't think the Rivers-to-Gates connection was that well-kept of a secret either way. I'm pretty sure PR would have looked to AG early and often no matter what Junior had said. And I don't think the Browns would have discounted Gates had Kellen not come up with his genius plan.

Besides, by your logic, it should be easy for the Chargers to defend Winslow because he will be trying to prove a point on Sunday as well.

[Ikeman83]

I disagree. Lights Out said he was the best, and he was capable of being better than :55: was.

K2 is saying that at 90%, he's better than any other TE in the game. He also states that Gates could never be the player his father was, when Gates is on pace to shatter #80s records.

He's not just arrogant, but extremely cocky and has very little sense in his head. The broken leg on the kickoff his first year was unfortunate. Doing stunts on his motorcycle in a parking lot was downright idiotic. If he played half as much as he talked, maybe he could back it up. I think he'll grab two or three passes this Sunday, but mostly in a non-factor role.

I hope Godfrey gets a shot at him coming over the middle.

I read that article a long time ago, but in it I believe Merriman said he "was going to be the best LB to ever play" or something to that effect. I don't think he went out and said, "I am the best linebacker ever."

Merriman is going to be a bigger impact player than Seau ever was, but he'll never be the kind of tackler that Seau was, and he'll never have the outrageous tackling stats.

Merriman will have more sacks than anyone else, ever, in all likelihood though. He might even round it out by getting himself a few more INTs.

I think the thing that defines Merriman at this point is that he simply can't be stopped. He runs through backs and around Tackles and can bull rush anybody.

[chargerfan1978]

Will this guy ever shut his trap?....I can't belive that he thinks he is the best in the game....they should start teaching these Miami players how to be humble in college so we don't have to listen to their bull**** once they gety in the NFL.

Nobody is better than Gates at the TE position...especially KW2...he thinks just cause his Dad was great it automatically makes him a canidate for the HOF........Give me a break!!!

He hasn't since high school, so why stop now. Damn, his pops is my all-time childhood idol. But, I would have looooooved to have seen Merriman knock the spit out of Junior's trap.

[action83jackson]

Last night on NFL Network, Winslow Jr. said he is better than Winslow Sr. because he 'has better hands and is faster'.

What a joke, the only thing he is better than anyone at is pleads for attention.

[MadMadigan]

Last night on NFL Network, Winslow Jr. said he is better than Winslow Sr. because he 'has better hands and is faster'.

What a joke, the only thing he is better than anyone at is pleads for attention.He Dissed his own Dad? Unbelievable :nono:

[GoTomlinson]

He hasn't since high school, so why stop now. Damn, his pops is my all-time childhood idol. But, I would have looooooved to have seen Merriman knock the spit out of Junior's trap.

Several years ago I traveled to Scripps Ranch High School (North of San Diego) to play a lacrosse game. I remember there was a group of guys standing close to the field who were obviously students at that high school. I played left defender and they were hanging out right around where I had to stand the whole game. There was one individual among the crowd that wouldn't shut his mouth and was yelling at me the whole game as if he was trying to impress his friends. There was no one else around me and I was thinking to myself, "Why wont this guy shut up already?" He was really going out of his way to try to bother me.

After the game my buddy ran up to me and asked if I knew who the guy was and I told him no I didn't. You will never guess who it was...

[MadMadigan]

Last night on NFL Network, Winslow Jr. said he is better than Winslow Sr. because he 'has better hands and is faster'.

What a joke, the only thing he is better than anyone at is pleads for attention.The elder Winslow is about the only player his son will concede is more gifted.

"I'm not even on his level," the younger Winslow said. "He's not human. I can't compare us."

Winslow said his dad seldom gives him advice about football.

"More stuff off the field," the younger Winslow said, "just be respectful and stuff like that.

Apparently, that lesson hasn't sunk in quite yet. He speaks differently here, but he should still listen to paps.

[gazork]

I don't read the player boasting/color articles anymore - it's enough for me to try and sustain interest in the NFL with all of the petty posturing that goes down on the field - I sure don't want to waste my time reading this bs.

Winslow is talented and we have had a problem covering tight ends this year - given Cleveland's minimal offensive capability, it will be a good idea for us to pay special attention to KW in this game.

[kosar_for_OC]

It amazes me that the city where Kellen Sr. lives in and established himself (IMO) as the greatest TE ever, disses his son! KII is a fans player! He is an entertainer on and off the field. Yes, he runs his mouth, it's what our team needs right now, a LEADER!!!!

All this talk about being the greateast...his 90% is better....blah blah blah IS MEANT FOR US FANS! Do you really think Marty will change his game plan just cause KII said things, get real. You guys wouldn't even be discussing this game if KII hadn't said a thing. (and you think he's stupid, LOL)

Enjoy the game people and when it's done, you'll have respect for KII as a player just like we respect Gates!

[DraftDay2001]

we respect Gates because the man doesn't run his mouth...you work hard to be the best, but you don't have to yap about it...especially at such an early stage of the process (ie..winslow jr.)

winslow jr. can talk all he wants about being the best and how Gates will never be like his dad....but the fact of the matter is (as pointed out in earlier posts) Gates is already well on his way to possibly over-taking Winslow Sr. as best TE ever..if not best TE ever for the Chargers....and to think the man never played college ball and is only getting better every day....NOW THAT IS NUTS.

so in short...i'm damn glad we don't have a big mouth like winslow jr. on our team....you guys can have him and his leading receptions. we'll take Gates, his TD's, and his respectful modesty.

[kosar_for_OC]

You say Gates is well on his way to surpass KW Sr., I hope he does, still won't change my mind who is better. I'm a longtime Browns fan and remember Sr. very well cause we had Ozzie Newsome at the time and alot was being compared between those 2.

You also don't care for KII running his mouth, sometimes it gets annoying for us too but we can overlook it. It's just a reflection of his competitive nature and DESIRE. Around Browns town its refreshing at times because we've been in a funk for some time. Bash him all you want but the truth is the man CAN play and we're glad he's here.

It's obvious you haven't seen him in a game yet or this trash talk wouldn't be happening. Come Sunday, you will be saying the same things we are about him. Hes what Cleveland needs and I hope we make comparisons between him and Gates the rest of there careers alah K Sr. and Ozzie Newsome!!!!!!!

[MAChiefs]

The most receptions (wow).

Gonzalez has more yards and Gates only has 9 less yards. But, Gonzalez and Gates have a much higher per catch average, as well as, more 20+ yard and 40+ yard plays. Gates also has more TDs.

Gonzalez and Gates create much more mismatches because of their size. Winslow is like Vernon, a big WR.

I bet Winslow finishes the year with a lot of receptions, but finishes around 5th in yards with a 9 yard per catch average.

[Chargeroo]

You say Gates is well on his way to surpass KW Sr., I hope he does, still won't change my mind who is better. I'm a longtime Browns fan and remember Sr. very well cause we had Ozzie Newsome at the time and alot was being compared between those 2.

You also don't care for KII running his mouth, sometimes it gets annoying for us too but we can overlook it. It's just a reflection of his competitive nature and DESIRE. Around Browns town its refreshing at times because we've been in a funk for some time. Bash him all you want but the truth is the man CAN play and we're glad he's here.

It's obvious you haven't seen him in a game yet or this trash talk wouldn't be happening. Come Sunday, you will be saying the same things we are about him. Hes what Cleveland needs and I hope we make comparisons between him and Gates the rest of there careers alah K Sr. and Ozzie Newsome!!!!!!! We've probably seen just as much of Winslow Jr. as you have of Gates. Gates has become a very good blocker too and is a big part of why we have a pretty good running game.

I don't think we doubt he can play. We just don't think he should keep talking about it and I sure don't think he should bash Gonzalez or Gates.

Newsome and Kellen Winslow were both great TE's - we can agree on that. So far, none of these young TE's can compare to those two.

[kosar_for_OC]

We've probably seen just as much of Winslow Jr. as you have of Gates. Gates has become a very good blocker too and is a big part of why we have a pretty good running game.

I don't think we doubt he can play. We just don't think he should keep talking about it and I sure don't think he should bash Gonzalez or Gates.

Newsome and Kellen Winslow were both great TE's - we can agree on that. So far, none of these young TE's can compare to those two.


I agree 100% with not bashing Gates and Gonzalez, thats a part of him where he hasn't quite matured yet. Respect those that came before you! However, when all is said and done KII will go down as one of the best if not THE best if the knucklehead can stay healthy. I will enjoy watching both TE's this game and many more games in the future. I hope they will develope into the Newsome & KW Sr. class.


Enjoy the game!

[Tomlinson21]

"I've got all the respect for Gates," Kellen Winslow Jr. said Wednesday, "but he'll never be my father."
what the hell was that all about???:crazy:

[MadMadigan]

It amazes me that the city where Kellen Sr. lives in and established himself (IMO) as the greatest TE ever, disses his son! KII is a fans player! He is an entertainer on and off the field. Yes, he runs his mouth, it's what our team needs right now, a LEADER!!!!

All this talk about being the greateast...his 90% is better....blah blah blah IS MEANT FOR US FANS! Do you really think Marty will change his game plan just cause KII said things, get real. You guys wouldn't even be discussing this game if KII hadn't said a thing. (and you think he's stupid, LOL)

Enjoy the game people and when it's done, you'll have respect for KII as a player just like we respect Gates!Ever heard the phrase "You Reap what you Sow" He Dissin his own Father with his words, and he's Dissin Gates and Gonzales

and you say he's doing it for the fans? If you enjoy this kind of thing, then You guys deserve each other. Man what a pathetic post!! :mad:

[kosar_for_OC]

Ever heard the phrase "You Reap what you Sow" He Dissin his own Father with his words, and he's Dissin Gates and Gonzales

and you say he's doing it for the fans? If you enjoy this kind of thing, then You guys deserve each other. Man what a pathetic post!! :mad:

The man did not dis his father in no way shape or form! When you discuss something inteligently, facts are used!!!!!!!

Saying he's running his mouth off for the fans.....he's getting us pumped as best he can for yet another woeful year for us.

Your rediculous assesment of what KII said about Gates and Gonzales IS SO FAR OFF but I forget most of you have problems with the English language!!!!!!!

[benji929]

Your rediculous assesment of what KII said about Gates and Gonzales IS SO FAR OFF but I forget most of you have problems with the English language!!!!!!!

Heheh, I don't like pointing out minor grammatical or spelling mistakes, but I had to right there, in that context.

[MadMadigan]

The man did not dis his father in no way shape or form! When you discuss something inteligently, facts are used!!!!!!!Here are some facts for you OC

"Winslow said his dad seldom gives him advice about football.

"More stuff off the field," the younger Winslow said, "just be respectful and stuff like that."

Now tell me how he is being respectful?

Second, I used to work With Kellen SR's brother at Home depot in El Cajon, around twenty years ago along with watching Kellen Sr play, and he was nothing like K2. Do you think you know Kellen Sr better than the SD fans?

[kosar_for_OC]

Hey. I was a huge fan of K Sr. too like I posted several times but again I ask, where is the dissing your talking about? Advice about off the field issues...

[MadMadigan]

You say Gates is well on his way to surpass KW Sr., I hope he does, still won't change my mind who is better. I'm a longtime Browns fan and remember Sr. very well cause we had Ozzie Newsome at the time and alot was being compared between those 2.

You also don't care for KII running his mouth, sometimes it gets annoying for us too but we can overlook it. It's just a reflection of his competitive nature and DESIRE. Around Browns town its refreshing at times because we've been in a funk for some time. Bash him all you want but the truth is the man CAN play and we're glad he's here.

It's obvious you haven't seen him in a game yet or this trash talk wouldn't be happening. Come Sunday, you will be saying the same things we are about him. Hes what Cleveland needs and I hope we make comparisons between him and Gates the rest of there careers alah K Sr. and Ozzie Newsome!!!!!!! A few years back we were in the same boat as a team, but we had LT, Did you hear LT make outrageous claims? You see LT has enough sense to his best every week and Let history decide if he was the best. He has said on numerous occasions that he wants to be the best. There is a big difference between that and stating you are the best.
Great players know the difference. K2 does not

[MadMadigan]

Hey. I was a huge fan of K Sr. too like I posted several times but again I ask, where is the dissing your talking about? Advice about off the field issues... ........................:rolleyes:

[kosar_for_OC]

Yes, LT has class! Like I said before, Winslow still needs some MATURING but his confidence in himself should not be bashed. He is a good player and you can't challenge that. If you had not seen the offensive rankings, we're 31 so not many players are shining!

My reply to you was on the dissing you referred too which did not happen. He said he is the best, Gates and Gonzales are behind him.....soooooooo

[DraftDay2001]

You say Gates is well on his way to surpass KW Sr., I hope he does, still won't change my mind who is better. I'm a longtime Browns fan and remember Sr. very well cause we had Ozzie Newsome at the time and alot was being compared between those 2.

You also don't care for KII running his mouth, sometimes it gets annoying for us too but we can overlook it. It's just a reflection of his competitive nature and DESIRE. Around Browns town its refreshing at times because we've been in a funk for some time. Bash him all you want but the truth is the man CAN play and we're glad he's here.

It's obvious you haven't seen him in a game yet or this trash talk wouldn't be happening. Come Sunday, you will be saying the same things we are about him. Hes what Cleveland needs and I hope we make comparisons between him and Gates the rest of there careers alah K Sr. and Ozzie Newsome!!!!!!!

Kosar, you are right I haven't seen much of him. I only saw him in the Saints and the Raiders game. But I never said he sucks or that he isnt any good. Me commenting on his comments isn't trash talk. The guy has to have talent in order to be the 6th pick (hope my memory is correct) so i would never knock him on his natural ability.

since you're obviously a Browns fan and he's on the Browns, it should be natural for you to like him. However, just speaking for myself....i can't stand the guy as far as his football persona goes. I could never root for someone like that, even if he's from SD. (and i rooted for M.Faulk alot when he was with the Colts and Rams because of what he did for San Diego State Football)

Winslow Jr. has the ability and potential to be a great player....maybe after 3 or 4 more years of solid play and then we'll look at it again.

In the mean time, Gates is not even at the top of his game yet....and as of right now Gates paired up with Rivers is starting to look scary (for other teams!!)....Winslow Jr. might be only as good as the QB who throws him the ball, so you guys better hope for a solid/great QB on the Browns soon. because Sr. did have some guy name Dan Fouts tossin him the skin.

Cheers for tomorrow Kosar.

[DraftDay2001]

Hey Kosar....after watching today's game...I'll give Winslow Junior his props for not being a show boater...he seemed quite respectful and was just taking care of his business...so i won't ever knock a guy for that. respects.

[jubei]

all I gotta say is...check the scoreboard beotch. Stats are nothing if you don't win. having said that it seemed classy of him after he hit the chain-gang dude and tried to help him up.

[kosar_for_OC]

All I tried to say was He's not as bad as people are saying he is. Hes a damn good football player and I'm glad he's here. Yea we lost (like we didn't expect it...sheesh) but Kellen was fun to watch. Imagine what he could do on a good team!!!!!

Good Luck the rest of the way!

[JCDavey]

All I tried to say was He's not as bad as people are saying he is. Hes a damn good football player and I'm glad he's here. Yea we lost (like we didn't expect it...sheesh) but Kellen was fun to watch. Imagine what he coud on a good team!!!!!

Good Luck the rest of the way!kellen's good, all he has to do is stay healthy in his career and he should be a fine TE

i just don't think anyone in the NFL outside of cleveland considers him a top NFL TE yet until he does it with consistency.

i knew K2 would have better numbers this weekend than gates because your weakness is run defense, not pass defense. the chargers have been good about taking what the D gives of late.

i said it a few times on this board leading up to this game.

[Waylon138]

All I tried to say was He's not as bad as people are saying he is. Hes a damn good football player and I'm glad he's here. Yea we lost (like we didn't expect it...sheesh) but Kellen was fun to watch. Imagine what he could do on a good team!!!!!

Good Luck the rest of the way!

KW2 is good.......he just needs to learn to be humble, respectful of others that came before him, shut his mouth and let his play on the field speak for it's self.

[TCUFAN5]

he has never been that way.. even in college he was a cocky SOB then and still is.. but that's the way he is.. he's a good TE and i give him that much but he does need to learn to shut his mouth..

[ftwbolt]

Great talent ! But he is still a punk !!

[apigod]

Hello fellow Bolts!

I'm new here, so please let me know if I post something inappropriate here...

Since we are on the topic of Kellen Winslow... I read a little blurb mentioning that Winslow Sr. had a "bad" break up with the Chargers organization? Is this true? If so, can someone explain what happened? This news surprised me...

Thanks,
Dennis

[Chargeroo]

Hello fellow Bolts!

I'm new here, so please let me know if I post something inappropriate here...

Since we are on the topic of Kellen Winslow... I read a little blurb mentioning that Winslow Sr. had a "bad" break up with the Chargers organization? Is this true? If so, can someone explain what happened? This news surprised me...

Thanks,
DennisThat's true. After he came back from that severe knee injury he was reduced to being pretty much just an average TE but he had the biggest salary. Ownership more or less forced him to retire and he resented it and felt cheated. Even when he went in the HOF he hadn't forgiven the teams owners.

[EGClutch]

So he says that Gates will never be like Winslow Sr., but Winslow Jr. will never be like Gates... never.

[apigod]

That's true. After he came back from that severe knee injury he was reduced to being pretty much just an average TE but he had the biggest salary. Ownership more or less forced him to retire and he resented it and felt cheated. Even when he went in the HOF he hadn't forgiven the teams owners.

Thanks for the history lesson, Chargeroo... no matter what, Winslow Sr. is still one of my all time favorite Charger...

[JCDavey]

Winslow wasn't overly impressed with his 11 catches because six of them came late in the fourth quarter when the Browns were in hurry-up mode. He had only four catches through three quarters -- and all four came in the two-minute drill at the end of the half.

"[The 11 receptions were] just because of the two-minute," he said. But they were a nice gift for his dad, who was celebrating his birthday Sunday.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1162805450289840.xml&coll=2#continue

[Chargeroo]

Thanks for the history lesson, Chargeroo... no matter what, Winslow Sr. is still one of my all time favorite Charger...Mine too. I loved the idea that he played offense with a linebackers mentality. I like Gates a lot too, but I still think Winslow was better and Gates is such a nice person that I wonder if he'll ever do all the things that Kellen did.