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vendetta07
11-17-2006, 06:09 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/story/472321p-397395c.html


Should have passed on Eli
Deal stands as Big Blue boo-boo

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/374-manning_sidelines.JPGEli Manning has a lot on his shoulders, but it was Giants' trade for him that created burden. http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/556-rivers_philip.JPGPhilip Rivers engineered wild rally over Bengals Sunday, throwing for 3 TDs and 338 yards. Ben Roethlisberger led Steelers to Super Bowl XL victory. Also won first 15 starts of his career. In first year as starter, Eli Manning led Giants to 2005 NFC East title. But was a complete no-show in playoff loss to Carolina.

Tom Coughlin was talking yesterday about using the overwhelmed Bob Whitfield at left tackle again on Monday night in Jacksonville, a desperate move. He was complaining about his passing game in Sunday night's game and he was still trying to figure out what to do about all the injuries and his paper-thin roster.

And every one of those problems might have been eliminated if Ernie Accorsi hadn't made the Eli Manning trade back in April 2004 that now appears to be a terrible deal for the Giants. It is looking like a long-term back-breaker, in what is supposed to be the Giants' breakthrough season, Accorsi's farewell tour. It was the biggest trade in Accorsi's career, and quite possibly his worst.

Sometimes it takes more than a few seasons to figure out these things, and maybe the final judgment call doesn't come for another five years. But right now, midway through Season 3 of the Manning era at the Meadowlands, this was not just a bad idea by Accorsi. It appears to be fatal.

Eli Manning is not a bad quarterback. He is good enough, perhaps, to win a title with the right cast. But he is not Ben Roethlisberger, already a champ, and now it turns out he may not be Philip Rivers, either. The complex trade has transformed the Chargers into an elite team and left the Giants a cut or two below.

Again, the Giants are solid enough. They have won five of their last six games and they probably will win their division when all is said and done. Accorsi deserves credit for that, too. But they could have been much better than this, much deeper, if the general manager hadn't followed his gut and worried so much that he was missing out on the next John Elway.

You have to remember that back in the spring of 2004, Accorsi was one of the few executives who believed Eli Manning was significantly better than both Roethlisberger and Rivers. Roethlisberger was big and tough. He was the guy Accorsi would have taken if the Giants didn't get Manning. Rivers had impressed everyone but Accorsi in private workouts and interviews. Most GMs and scouts grouped the trio of passers at around the same talent level.

Not Accorsi, who was utterly sold on Manning. He fell in love with the name, with the pedigree, and Accorsi gave up the deed to Xanadu to get him.

The Chargers ended up with Rivers. They also received the Giants' third-round pick in 2004, plus their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005.

Now you look at how those picks turned out, or how they might have gone, and it is clear the Giants gave up a tremendous amount of front-end talent for Manning, and that it hasn't been worth it yet.

The Chargers got three starters for Manning - Rivers, a real star this season, who has a 66.4% completion rate and a 100.4 quarterback rating (Manning's numbers are 59.4% and an 81 rating); Shawne Merriman, an outside linebacker with 8.5 sacks this season; and Nick Hardwick, a sturdy center.

San Diego didn't keep the fifth-round pick. St. Louis ended up with that choice, and took a bust, tight end Jerome Collins. But if the Giants had retained that pick, they might have selected Trent Cole, a starting defensive end in Philadelphia, who went two spots later.

And there you have the kind of depth and talent that might have compensated for injuries all over the field, on the offensive and defensive lines and at linebacker. You also have Rivers, who is a year younger than Manning and now looking like the player with the more accurate arm. Or you have Roethlisberger, also a year younger, who already has won a Super Bowl in Pittsburgh.

Instead, the Giants have a bunch of wrecked tendons, emergency filler material and a quarterback who is still trying to find his way on many weekends, who had three turnovers against the Bears.

"You've got to find ways to hit the open guy, be smart with the ball," Manning was saying again yesterday.

Here we are in Week 11, and you still have your choice around the Giants. You can jump on the bandwagon or board the second-guess express. It is Accorsi's last season, he says, and he will win or go down with that one famous quarterback trade. Right now, the deal looks all wrong. Not because of Manning, but because of what the Giants might have been.

Originally published on November 17, 2006



:Bolt: I don't think that's the entire reason for us picking the best players. I think it also depends if the player is a good fit for the team's system. They also don't have a GM like A.J. Smith.:Bolt:

boltsfan1455
11-17-2006, 06:15 AM
I didn't want She Li anyways

BeWaReDaBoLt
11-17-2006, 09:23 AM
The Chargers got three starters for Manning - Rivers, a real star this season, who has a 66.4% completion rate and a 100.4 quarterback rating (Manning's numbers are 59.4% and an 81 rating); Shawne Merriman, an outside linebacker with 8.5 sacks this season; and Nick Hardwick, a sturdy center.

hmm...I thought we got keading with that pick...instead of hardwick

rammerjammer
11-17-2006, 09:28 AM
hmm...I thought we got keading with that pick...instead of hardwick

Yeah, that's a mistake. We got Kaeding. Otherwise, the article does a great job of articulating the mistake the Giants made when mortgaging their future on ShEli.

getfresh
11-17-2006, 09:59 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/story/472321p-397395c.html


San Diego didn't keep the fifth-round pick. St. Louis ended up with that choice, and took a bust, tight end Jerome Collins. But if the Giants had retained that pick, they might have selected Trent Cole, a starting defensive end in Philadelphia, who went two spots later.

Didn't we trade this pick to Tampa for Oben? This guy didn't really do all his fact-checking, but a darn good article nonetheless.

Satcong_21
11-17-2006, 10:12 AM
Didn't we trade this pick to Tampa for Oben? This guy didn't really do all his fact-checking, but a darn good article nonetheless.

Like Accorsi, that writer didn't do enough homework...I still don't understand why would Accorsi thought Eli is better than PR other than a QB last name...It's not like PR a one year wonder in college like Leaf...All the things PR had done since his freshman year in college at NC State...Just imagine if Accorsi is a Chargers GM, some "real" fans here would have been upset and cry everyday about the trade...

Shamrock
11-17-2006, 10:23 AM
Here is a similar article.

The Eli Manning Mistake (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=188#more-188) - NY Times blog

Toad
11-17-2006, 11:50 AM
I didn't want She Li anyways

What's amazing to me is how anyone can look at Archie Manning's statistics and think that Peyton is much more than a statistical aberration in the Manning family. I believe that it is much more plausible to anticipate that Eli would be a good athlete, but not a world-beater. And, that's not to say that being a solid QB in the NFL isn't a major accomplishment. After all, there are only 32 starting NFL QB's on the planet! Here are Archie's stats:

NEW ORLEANS: After college, he was selected in the 1971 NFL draft by the New Orleans Saints with the second overall selection. The Saints were at that time – and throughout Manning's stay there – one of the worst teams in the league, and Manning's supporters have often said that this was the reason that his career was less successful than it otherwise might have been. It seems very likely that if quarterback sacks had been an official statistic throughout his NFL career, there would probably have been more recorded against him than against any other player.

Manning played for the Saints for ten full seasons, none of them winning. In 1972 he led the league in pass attempts and completions, and led the NFC in passing yards, though the team's record was only 2-11-1. In 1978, he was named the NFC Player Of The Year by UPI after leading the Saints to their first non-losing season. They finished 8-8. That same year, Archie was also named All-NFC by both the UPI and The Sporting News.


Manning was selected to the Pro Bowl in 1978 and 1979. He went on to conclude his career with the Houston Oilers (1982-83) and the Minnesota Vikings (1983-84), where the teams posted a collective record of 6-35. He ended his 13-year career having completed 2011 of 3642 passes for 23,911 yards and 125 touchdowns, with 173 interceptions. He also rushed for 2197 yards and 18 touchdowns. His 2011 completions ranked 17th in NFL history upon his retirement.

I believe that he has so many passing yards because his team couldn't run the ball. Kinda like how the Raider's pass D looks so good.

Lord Revan
11-17-2006, 11:59 AM
Lol anyone know what Archie's QB rating would be? I'm going to say it would be about 62....

56lightsout56
11-17-2006, 12:07 PM
this is only the tip of the iceberg. if Sheli's play continues to trend as it is now, it will only get worse, and the "Soup Nazi" HC they have will go balistic and it will be Daddy to the rescue again.

JoeMcRugby
11-17-2006, 12:24 PM
What's amazing to me is how anyone can look at Archie Manning's statistics and think that Peyton is much more than a statistical aberration in the Manning family. I believe that it is much more plausible to anticipate that Eli would be a good athlete, but not a world-beater. And, that's not to say that being a solid QB in the NFL isn't a major accomplishment. After all, there are only 32 starting NFL QB's on the planet! Here are Archie's stats:



I believe that he has so many passing yards because his team couldn't run the ball. Kinda like how the Raider's pass D looks so good.

Archie Manning was a good QB in the NFL.

The New Orleans teams that he played on made the 2003 version of the Chargers look like the monsters of the midway.

And again - comparing passing stats from the 70s to the current stats is not a fair comparison. The rules that were in place at that time allowed defensive players to mug receivers all over the field and pass blocking rules did not let offensive linemen use their hands in blocking like today.

In Archie's day, having more TD passes in a season than INTs and a 55% completion percentage was the mark of a Pro Bowl QB.

I need to take a shower after "defending" Archie like that ;), but there isn't a QB who has ever lived who would have looked good playing on those historically bad Saints teams.

Toad
11-17-2006, 12:42 PM
Archie Manning was a good QB in the NFL.

The New Orleans teams that he played on made the 2003 version of the Chargers look like the monsters of the midway.

And again - comparing passing stats from the 70s to the current stats is not a fair comparison. The rules that were in place at that time allowed defensive players to mug receivers all over the field and pass blocking rules did not let offensive linemen use their hands in blocking like today.

In Archie's day, having more TD passes in a season than INTs and a 55% completion percentage was the mark of a Pro Bowl QB.

I need to take a shower after "defending" Archie like that ;), but there isn't a QB who has ever lived who would have looked good playing on those historically bad Saints teams.

Yeah, I know that rules have changed over the years in favor of the O. And I realize that Archie's experience was the main driver in not wanting Eli to play for SD.

But, my point remains...Archie was a good QB, not a world-beater among world-beaters. Being a starting NFL QB is an amazing feat, especially today where I believe the competition is much deeper than in 1970 (just look at the US population increase alone).

Expecting Eli to be better than he is currently is just not a reasonable expectation. Peyton is the aberration, not Eli. And EA paying to AJ what EA did for Eli was just wreckless when Rivers was already in hand.

Ain't hindsight beautiful?? :Cheers:

greg
11-17-2006, 04:25 PM
Archie Manning was a good QB in the NFL.

The New Orleans teams that he played on made the 2003 version of the Chargers look like the monsters of the midway.

And again - comparing passing stats from the 70s to the current stats is not a fair comparison. The rules that were in place at that time allowed defensive players to mug receivers all over the field and pass blocking rules did not let offensive linemen use their hands in blocking like today.

In Archie's day, having more TD passes in a season than INTs and a 55% completion percentage was the mark of a Pro Bowl QB.

I need to take a shower after "defending" Archie like that ;), but there isn't a QB who has ever lived who would have looked good playing on those historically bad Saints teams.you are so right

Lord Revan
11-17-2006, 04:55 PM
you are so right

I think the point he is making is that Archie is good like Eli is good... But neither of them are on the same level as Peyton.

It's like watching the Xmen trilogy and saying, "yeah that was pretty good... (Archie and Eli)" And then going and watching the original Star Wars trilogy and saying, "Holy crap! I'm gonna see those again! (Peyton)"

JerryinCA
11-19-2006, 02:13 AM
To be honest I get sick and tired of this whole "royal family" treatment the Mannings get in the media and with the NFL. I really wish we didn't have to see anymore stories on them or hear about how they played as kids and all that crap, every player in the league has some kind of story to tell I'm sure but they don't get to tell it because we have to hear again and again about the Mannings. I just hope when it comes to the Mannings the media and NFL realize that the stories have been told to death and we don't need to hear anything else about them until one of them wins a SB (hopefully that never happens)

hankster
11-19-2006, 08:48 AM
What Joel says makes a lot of sense. Nice post. I gotta take a shower now also.

bolthead123
11-19-2006, 05:51 PM
I think the media is being a little to hard on Eli but he set himself up for that when he made it clear that he didn't want to play for the Chargers. He proved that he wasn't a true gamer or leader and sent a message out that he has no confidence in himself. Philip Rivers certainly didn't have a problem with playing for the chargers, heck, he would probably be happy playing for a losing team and taking up the challenge of turning it all around. Philip has a great attitude.