Patriots to make a run at Julius Pepers

[sdchargersfan21]

Patriots | To make run at Peppers?
Mon, 02 Mar 2009 05:55:48 -0800

John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots could attempt to make a run at Carolina Panthers DL Julius Peppers with the cap money they saved and the draft pick acquired in the trade of QB Matt Cassel and LB Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs.

Just something in from hot off the wire. Ouch, AJ step your game up! I at least want to read a threat of us bringing ONE player in for an interview. My gosh.

[JOE KING]

Good grief. I hope it doesn't work out for them!

[sdchargersfan21]

Fact is we have glaring holes that need to addressed. RT, ILB, SS, or FS. (I still believe in Weddle) We need to at least bring players in! An interview wouldn't hurt.

[LV_BOLT]

Gotta love how AJ runs the Chargers with that spot-on Patriots ideology... you know, the one where we don't go after big name free agents. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/jjns/smilies/facepalm.gif

[eightdogs]

There is a reason why the Patriots are one of, if not the, best run organizations in professional football, and sports in general. What they've done this offseason is a sight to behold, and they aren't through yet.

But don't go piling on AJ Smith about this. Sure, he's got hand in what happens in Chargerland, but he's also limited by what the Spanose's are willing to spend on the free agent market. It's their money, not his, so the way he approaches free agency has everything to do with how much the Spanose's want to spend, and not on how little AJ wants to spend.

[sdchargersfan21]

Could the Spanos family be cheap? Hmmm..I've never thought of that.

[hankster]

There is a reason why the Patriots are one of, if not the, best run organizations in professional football, and sports in general. What they've done this offseason is a sight to behold, and they aren't through yet.

But don't go piling on AJ Smith about this. Sure, he's got hand in what happens in Chargerland, but he's also limited by what the Spanose's are willing to spend on the free agent market. It's their money, not his, so the way he approaches free agency has everything to do with how much the Spanose's want to spend, and not on how little AJ wants to spend.

Ever heard of the salary cap? This isn't the Padres. Get educated. This has nothing to do with the Spanos being cheap.

[sdchargersfan21]

actually, correct me if I'm wrong but can't Huge signing bonuses not count against the cap? Which allow the Cowboys to sign players at such low salary but high signing bonuses? They are able to get a lot of star players because of this method? I don't know.

[hankster]

actually, correct me if I'm wrong but can't Huge signing bonuses not count against the cap? Which allow the Cowboys to sign players at such low salary but high signing bonuses? They are able to get a lot of star players because of this method? I don't know.

Eventually they do, which jeopardizes the long term viability of the team. Some teams, like Washington, basically sell their future. Joe McRugby could explain better but you can't just dole out money and not have it come back to bite you. The Spanos and AJ are careful with money, and don't throw it around like a Washington or a Raiders team. Also, there are so many of these FA's around who get giant contracts and then bomb. Don't forget Julius Peppers was a bust for a while until his contract year and all of a sudden he improves. This is just the kind of guy we don't need. Like a David Boston type. We manage to avoid these giant busts and attempt to spread the money around to keep a more balanced team. I'm not the expert at this by any means, but this is my general understanding of our philosophy. In any event, the Spanos are not cheap.

[PGHChargerfan]

Plus, why do people keep forgetting how the Steelers operate? When is the last time anyone heard of the Steelers making a big splash in free agency? Colbert is a mastermind personnel guy and he gets little credit.

Oh, and they now have six Lombardis sitting at Heinz Field for all to see.

So, if I'm a GM (with no identity of my own), who do I pattern my methods after?

Steelers -- a class organization with 6 trophies.

Patsies -- a clas... well, you know the rest.

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

Eventually they do, which jeopardizes the long term viability of the team. Some teams, like Washington, basically sell their future. Joe McRugby could explain better but you can't just dole out money and not have it come back to bite you. The Spanos and AJ are careful with money, and don't throw it around like a Washington or a Raiders team. Also, there are so many of these FA's around who get giant contracts and then bomb. Don't forget Julius Peppers was a bust for a while until his contract year and all of a sudden he improves.

I must have forgotten...when was Julius Peppers ever considered a "bust"?! :confused:

After his rookie season (2002), when he was NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year?

In 2003, when he led the defense to the Super Bowl?

In 2004, when he was named an All-Pro?

In 2005, when he went to the Pro Bowl?

In 2006, when he went to the Pro Bowl and was named an All-Pro?

In 2007, when he went to the Pro Bowl?

He had one down year the season before last, before bouncing back and making to the Pro Bowl again this year. Considering all his past accomplishments, that one season last year now makes him a complete bust?! WOW!

[JoeMcRugby]

Patriots pull in a boatload of more revenue due to their state of the art stadium, built when the State of Massachussets gave Robert Kraft more than 500 acres of land to build Gillette Stadium.

The state of the art stadium features a massive revenues edge over the Chargers with the PSL's for many more club seats and luxury suites, revenue that does not have to be shared with the rest of the NFL teams.

If you believe that Robert Kraft (or any other owner outside of desperate lost-his-freakin'-mind Al Davis the past couple of years) reaches into his wallet for a single dollar bill to pay large up-front bonuses, I've got some great waterfront property in Florida to sell you.

The money for those upfront bonuses comes from football operations revenue - in other words, from the money that PSLs, club seating and luxury boxes genterate. The front-loaded bonuses can then be spread across five years of the team's cap, making the current year's cap manageable. So long as the cap keeps going up significantly, you can avoid cap hell.

Too bad the City of SD wasn't willing to chip in the 55 acres of land five years ago. You'd see the Chargers in the free agent market a bit more, plus they'd be able to lock up "their own" at larger sums without risk of the players leaving for more profitable landscapes.

[HawaiianWarrior]

I dont care what anyone says this is a good move for the Pats to go after Peppers. I didnt even realize Peppers was a FA. I am dissapointed we didnt go after him. DLine is a hole for us. I understand wanting to build through the draft but now i'm beggining to really wonder, has building almost exclusively through the draft decided our destiny these past years???

Rooks may take a year or two or even THREE to fully develop right??? A teams philosophy of building through free agency would be that bringing in the right veteran can provide an immediate boost for a team provided the vet brings his A-game to his new team.

Now think of how many times since AJ's arrival that the Bolts have fallen just SHORT of the promiseland????

We need guys that can give us an immediate boost and put us over the top. Now MOST OF THE TIME you do not get that from a rookie. Even if the rookie is to end up being a great player.

If it's any year that we need to take a swing at Free Agency it's THIS YEAR.

The way things are looking, AJ is gonna put our weaknesses in the hands of a group of Rooks and cross his fingers that they come in and contribute immediately. This could be a big mistake. Especially when you consider our division opponents are relying on vets to beef up. Charger philiosophy is Charger philosophy but sometimes you need to adjust your philosophy a little to adapt to certain situations. Especially when you are constantly falling short of your desired goal :(

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

Patriots pull in a boatload of more revenue due to their state of the art stadium, built when the State of Massachussets gave Robert Kraft more than 500 acres of land to build Gillette Stadium.

The state of the art stadium features a massive revenues edge over the Chargers with the PSL's for many more club seats and luxury suites, revenue that does not have to be shared with the rest of the NFL teams.

If you believe that Robert Kraft (or any other owner outside of desperate lost-his-freakin'-mind Al Davis the past couple of years) reaches into his wallet for a single dollar bill to pay large up-front bonuses, I've got some great waterfront property in Florida to sell you.

The money for those upfront bonuses comes from football operations revenue - in other words, from the money that PSLs, club seating and luxury boxes genterate. The front-loaded bonuses can then be spread across five years of the team's cap, making the current year's cap manageable. So long as the cap keeps going up significantly, you can avoid cap hell.

Too bad the City of SD wasn't willing to chip in the 55 acres of land five years ago. You'd see the Chargers in the free agent market a bit more, plus they'd be able to lock up "their own" at larger sums without risk of the players leaving for more profitable landscapes.

Don't all these bonuses count against the salary cap though? Maybe not all right away, but eventually it catches up, doesn't it?

I mean, this isn't like baseball where it's a matter of how much money the owner wants to spend, or even basketball where there's a "soft" limit and if you go over you have to pay a tax (at least I think that's how it works).

Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft may be raking in way more money than Spanos, but is that what is really keeping us from signing guys like Peppers? I mean, we're pretty close to the salary cap as it stands anyway, and generally have been in years past. It's not as if the salary cap has been around $100 million but we've only chosen to spend $35 of that each year or something...I guess I just don't understand what all the extra revenue from PSL's and luxury suites has to do with anything if we're spending up against the cap every year anyway.

[HeadTrip]

Peppers isn't a FA, he was franchised by the Panthers, so NE is going to have to pony up some draft picks if they want him.

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

Peppers isn't a FA, he was franchised by the Panthers, so NE is going to have to pony up some draft picks if they want him.

Or a sign and trade.

[JoeMcRugby]

Peppers isn't a FA, he was franchised by the Panthers, so NE is going to have to pony up some draft picks if they want him.

Technically, you are still a free agent when you get franchised as you can still go out and negotiate a contract and sign an offer sheet without your "current" team's permission.

Getting past that techicality, you're right that they will have to pony up draft picks if in fact they are interested in signing Peppers with the cap space that they just opened up by trading Vrabel and Cassell (they were pressed up against the cap ceiling before those trades).

They do have boatloads of draft picks (4) in the first two rounds of the April 2009 draft to make the trade: the 23rd, 34th, 47th and 58th picks.

I'm not sure whether the Pats are interested in paying the Panthers the draft picks that they would want and pay Peppers the money he'll demand. We'll see.

[JoeMcRugby]

Don't all these bonuses count against the salary cap though? Maybe not all right away, but eventually it catches up, doesn't it?

I mean, this isn't like baseball where it's a matter of how much money the owner wants to spend, or even basketball where there's a "soft" limit and if you go over you have to pay a tax (at least I think that's how it works).

Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft may be raking in way more money than Spanos, but is that what is really keeping us from signing guys like Peppers? I mean, we're pretty close to the salary cap as it stands anyway, and generally have been in years past. It's not as if the salary cap has been around $100 million but we've only chosen to spend $35 of that each year or something...I guess I just don't understand what all the extra revenue from PSL's and luxury suites has to do with anything if we're spending up against the cap every year anyway.

What is keeping the Spanos' from signing a Peppers?

Because their operational revenues are going towards extending PR, Merriman, McNeill, Cromartie, Gates, VJ and others. Signing Peppers means giving him Merriman's money - i.e. robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Not a single owner goes into his own wallet to pay their players. Despite one of the top 10 stadiums in stadium capacity and selling out all games since midseason 2004, the Chargers are in the bottom half-dozen teams in revenues.

As for the bonuses "eventually" catching up: that only happens when you make a habit of it - if you make it a habit, it forces you to "churn the roster" as we've seen happen to many teams (including the Cowboys and Redskins) as they are unable to pursue their own starters who they want to keep and/or they are forced to release starters under contract to get under the cap.

The Pats don't make a habit of signing UFAs to these kinds of contracts, so they aren't likely to be in a "cap hell" position.

When the cap doesn't increase at a good rate and the churning of the roster isn't enough to get you under the cap, you have reached cap hell. So long as the cap keeps increasing at a big rate each year, even teams like the Skins and Cowboys can avoid cap hell with their normal roster churning tactics.

The Skins lucked out in 2006. They were facing cap hell as the new CBA adoption deadline was reached and extended before the new CBA was adopted at the last second. They would have had to jettison a good portion of their roster if the cap hadn't gone upwards in 2006.

[Clint Beastwood]

Plus, why do people keep forgetting how the Steelers operate? When is the last time anyone heard of the Steelers making a big splash in free agency? Colbert is a mastermind personnel guy and he gets little credit.

Oh, and they now have six Lombardis sitting at Heinz Field for all to see.

So, if I'm a GM (with no identity of my own), who do I pattern my methods after?

Steelers -- a class organization with 6 trophies.

Patsies -- a clas... well, you know the rest.

Why does everyone keep bringing the steelers up, the Steelers have had stronger drafts than us the past 2 years and have less holes to fill. When you have 4 holes to fill, you can't expect to fill all 4 via the draft and expect to compete for a superbowl in that same year with 4 rookie starters?

[JoeMcRugby]

Why does everyone keep bringing the steelers up, the Steelers have had stronger drafts than us the past 2 years and have less holes to fill. When you have 4 holes to fill, you can't expect to fill all 4 via the draft and expect to compete for a superbowl in that same year with 4 rookie starters?

AJ has to do better, but the fact of the matter is that the Chargers follow the Steelers blueprint.

That's why they keep bringing it up.

[Clint Beastwood]

AJ has to do better, but the fact of the matter is that the Chargers follow the Steelers blueprint.

That's why they keep bringing it up.

awhile ago people were saying we followed the patriots blueprint because they won so many titles in the 2000's. Guess that didnt work out for us when we couldn't get cheap veterans to come in and make big contributions. Also if we followed the Steelers blueprint, we'd be more of a smashmouth running team as opposed to going in the direction of a pass happy team that all the fans have fallen in love with.

Fact is, there are many ways to win a superbowl, you can point to the way the Chargers are running things and say they are trying to be like the steelers, but teams have signed various free agents and made it to the superbowl recently and have found ways to remain competetive while maintaining their core group of drafted players i.e. Patriots, Cards(will probably be making more playoff trips), Giants. So far "the plan" hasnt worked , so maybe its time to change things up slighlty....

[JoeMcRugby]

awhile ago people were saying we followed the patriots blueprint because they won so many titles in the 2000's. Guess that didnt work out for us when we couldn't get cheap veterans to come in and make big contributions. Also if we followed the Steelers blueprint, we'd be more of a smashmouth running team as opposed to going in the direction of a pass happy team that all the fans have fallen in love with.

Fact is, there are many ways to win a superbowl, you can point to the way the Chargers are running things and say they are trying to be like the steelers, but teams have signed various free agents and made it to the superbowl recently and have found ways to remain competetive while maintaining their core group of drafted players i.e. Patriots, Cards(will probably be making more playoff trips), Giants. So far "the plan" hasnt worked , so maybe its time to change things up slighlty....

The Chargers take a bit from the Pats in signing low to middle tier free agents. The Steelers and Colts avoid that like the plague.

We'll see about the Cards making many more playoff trips. They have just completed a 9-7 season, got hot in the playoffs and are now potentially in the process of losing the QB who captained the ship that "got hot" at the right time. That makes two winning seasons over the past 30 years, so let's not get carried away.

Let's put it in perspective:

It took the Steelers plan 14 years to work (Cowher finally got his ring after 14 years of coachingthe system).

It took the Colts plan 9 years to work after the Colts drafted Peyton in 1998.

It took the Cards 65 years to get a home playoff game (the first since the 1940s Chicago Cardinals).

But by all means, AJ should abandon the franchise plan after 5 years because it hasn't worked yet. :Cheers:

[Crime Time]

It's not the blueprint, it's how it's implemented.

The Pats do a great job. Their revenue allows them to try to stretch the limits of the cap to fit guys like Peppers in. The salary cap is hard in the NFL, but certain teams feel more comfortable trying to stretch a bit more. But the bottom line is going to be whether the FA produces, not what 'template' the team follows. To me, the Pats seem pretty pragmatic in that regard. They traded for Moss anticipating that their organization and staff would be able to keep Moss in check, and it was a calculated risk that paid off in spades for them.

All of that being said, the number one most important part of their system is probably just that they happened to draft Tom Brady. And its had for another org to duplicate that template. ;)

I envy their boatload of draft picks this offseason (one of them being ours). If they can also add Peppers and Brady is healthy, then they are obviously one of the frontrunners in the AFC next year.

[Clint Beastwood]

The Chargers take a bit from the Pats in signing low to middle tier free agents. The Steelers and Colts avoid that like the plague.

We'll see about the Cards making many more playoff trips. They have just completed a 9-7 season, got hot in the playoffs and are now potentially in the process of losing the QB who captained the ship that "got hot" at the right time. That makes two winning seasons over the past 30 years, so let's not get carried away.

Let's put it in perspective:

It took the Steelers plan 14 years to work (Cowher finally got his ring after 14 years of coachingthe system).

It took the Colts plan 9 years to work after the Colts drafted Peyton in 1998.

It took the Cards 65 years to get a home playoff game (the first since the 1940s Chicago Cardinals).

But by all means, AJ should abandon the franchise plan after 5 years because it hasn't worked yet. :Cheers:

with the talent the Cards have and the horrid division they are in, they will be competing for that playoff spot for the next few years.

You can point to the steelers and colts taking years to develop their plans, but one thing those teams did were stand by their coaches through the playoff loses, and didn't panic, but thats a whole different argument I guess.....

[Crime Time]

with the talent the Cards have and the horrid division they are in, they will be competing for that playoff spot for the next few years.

You can point to the steelers and colts taking years to develop their plans, but one thing those teams did were stand by their coaches through the playoff loses, and didn't panic, but thats a whole different argument I guess.....

I do compliment the Steelers especially in that regard.

It is hard for an NFL coach to reach his players season after season and not lose them, especially after a bad season. OTOH it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy- I think part of it is that if it is understood that even a good coach will likely get canned after a bad year, then the players are going to start tuning him out because they know he's likely to be gone by next year.

Whereas the Steelers stick with their coach through thick and thin, as long as they still believe in their head coach. They don't change HC's for the sake of change. In turn, the players recognize this and know that whoever is HC is probably going to outlast them. That's significant. As a player you might not even like the HC, but you are going to respect his position for sure.

[JoeMcRugby]

with the talent the Cards have and the horrid division they are in, they will be competing for that playoff spot for the next few years.

You can point to the steelers and colts taking years to develop their plans, but one thing those teams did were stand by their coaches through the playoff loses, and didn't panic, but thats a whole different argument I guess.....

The 49ers will be right on their tails in 2009. If they sign Warner away from the Cards, they'll be faves.

As hard as the playoff losses were to swallow, that was not the reason that the Chargers head coach was fired. Right or wrong, Colts and Steelers coaches toe the company line and know not to step over it.

[CanadianBoltFan]

I dont think this will get done.

Dealing for Peppers will be very costly in terms of compensation and I am of the opinion that NE will not pay the salary demands that Peppers will be seeking.

[Strife9878]

actually, correct me if I'm wrong but can't Huge signing bonuses not count against the cap? Which allow the Cowboys to sign players at such low salary but high signing bonuses? They are able to get a lot of star players because of this method? I don't know.

Orgigionally they didnt, but now they are divided amongst the life of the contract...

So if we sing a guy and pay him a 5 million dollar singing bonus, it counts 1 million against the cap each year, even though he received the cash the first year.

Now here is where i am not sure...

If we cut this person after 2 years, do we take a 3 million dollar cap hit, or 1 million cap hit for the remaining 3 years.

[JoeMcRugby]

Orgigionally they didnt, but now they are divided amongst the life of the contract...

So if we sing a guy and pay him a 5 million dollar singing bonus, it counts 1 million against the cap each year, even though he received the cash the first year.

Now here is where i am not sure...

If we cut this person after 2 years, do we take a 3 million dollar cap hit, or 1 million cap hit for the remaining 3 years.

The full cap charge hits immediately.

There had been the "June 1st" rule whereby a player who is deemed cut after that date would have the cap charge spread over two years, but the June 1st rule is not in effect due to the impending capless 2010 season. As such, all players cut have their unamortized bonus money hit the 2009 team cap.

It's a juggling act that you can keep doing so long as you churn the roster of players you may not want to get rid of but have to because they'll represent a cap savings and the salary cap maximum keeps progressively increasing.

However, if a snag turns up, the whole house of cards comes tumbling down like the recent real estate market implosion.

[BoltBacker4Life]

I dont think this will get done.

Dealing for Peppers will be very costly in terms of compensation and I am of the opinion that NE will not pay the salary demands that Peppers will be seeking.

I will almost guarantee this will get done. Not only have they added some really nice FA, they have now saved a TON of money against the cap getting rid of Cassel and Vrabel. They have plenty of money and they have 4 picks in the top two rounds to offer.

Pat Kirwin said they will probably offer their top first pick and their pick in the 40's for Peppers.

[xxcro31beastxx]

If this happens and we stay the same, my AJ tolerance tank will hit empty.

Watch teams around us get stronger OLDER OR NOt is killing me....what are the chargers doing? STILL negotiating LT.

[JoeMcRugby]

I will almost guarantee this will get done. Not only have they added some really nice FA, they have now saved a TON of money against the cap getting rid of Cassel and Vrabel. They have pleanty of money and they have 4 picks in the top two rounds to offer.

Pat Kirwin said they will probably offer their top first pick and their pick in the 40's for Peppers.

If I were the Panthers, I'd reject that offer. "Make it your top 1st round pick & your top 2nd round pick and you've got yourself a deal. Otherwise, sign him to a franchise tag contract and fork over two 1st round picks. Your choice, take it or leave it."

BTW They're not going to pay Wilfork and other Pats at the expense of bringing in Peppers? The Pats have several of "their own" due big money whose rookie contracts are expiring. That'll be a mighty happy locker room if they don't pay their own guys.

After all, the Pats were hard pressed against the cap before sending Vrabel and Cassell elsewhere. The money they cleared out takes care of Peppers, their rookie cap and not too much beyond that.

[BoltBacker4Life]

If I were the Panthers, I'd reject that offer. "Make it your top 1st round pick & your top 2nd round pick and you've got yourself a deal. Otherwise, sign him to a franchise tag contract and fork over two 1st round picks. Your choice, take it or leave it."

BTW They're not going to pay Wilfork and other Pats at the expense of bringing in Peppers? The Pats have several of "their own" who are due big money. That'll be a mighty happy locker room if they don't pay their own guys.

After all, the Pats were hard pressed against the cap before sending Vrabel and Cassell elsewhere. The money they cleared out takes care of Peppers, their rookie cap and not too much beyond that.

I bet you they will give over both of the 1st if asked. Kirwin has been saying that Peppers hasn't signed the tag yet because he was waiting to hear from NE. Supposedly as soon as Cassel got traded, NE contacted Car and talks have started.

[SdAztec]

with the talent the Cards have and the horrid division they are in, they will be competing for that playoff spot for the next few years.

You can point to the steelers and colts taking years to develop their plans, but one thing those teams did were stand by their coaches through the playoff loses, and didn't panic, but thats a whole different argument I guess.....

Well...Seahawks, 49ers, and the Rams have different coaches and/or are picking up new players. Plus you have no idea how the draft will go. The 49ers seemed to have turned around near the end of 2008 (4 wins, 1 loss). The Rams will get better and the Seahawks were plagued with injuries and needed WRs. So far the Seahawks have been somewhat active in free agency and the 49ers may pickup some free agents. The Seahawks may pickup T.J. Houshmandzadeh or another WR in free agency. This with a healthy WR group and several players in the draft could make them a powerful force in the NFC West. The Rams signed James Brown as their new center and will probably be more active in FA.

Saying that the Cards will probably win or "will be competing for that playoff spot" is based upon nothing other than your judgment of the team. However every year the NFL changes with teams getting better or worse. Warner is visiting the 49ers. Arrington (Cards RB) may go to Denver or another team. The Cards are not in a good place salary cap wise compared to the 49ers or other NFC West teams.

The Rams have the #2 pick in the draft, Seahawks #4, 49ers #10, and the Cards #31. The Seahawks are not far away from making the playoffs again.

I mean the Cards only won 2 more games than the 49ers...

[JoeMcRugby]

I bet you they will give over both of the 1st if asked. Kirwin has been saying that Peppers hasn't signed the tag yet because he was waiting to hear from NE. Supposedly as soon as Cassel got traded, NE contacted Car and talks have started.

Maybe. Interesting how NE keeps tight lids on everything else, but their contract talks with Carolina known to have started.

We'll see. IMO The Pats will be blowing a great opportunity at really reloading the gun with young talent in 2009.

Let alone the need to extend Wilfork and others, the Pats need a lot of new young blood coming in, not just a hot-and-cold player coming off of a contract push season who will be paid more than every ring-wearing Patriot in history with the exception of Mr. Brady.

But Billy B. knows a hell of a lot more than me, so I'll just shut up. ;)

[Riverside]

Well...Seahawks, 49ers, and the Rams have different coaches and/or are picking up new players. Plus you have no idea how the draft will go. The 49ers seemed to have turned around near the end of 2008 (4 wins, 1 loss). The Rams will get better and the Seahawks were plagued with injuries and needed WRs. So far the Seahawks have been somewhat active in free agency and the 49ers may pickup some free agents. The Seahawks may pickup T.J. Houshmandzadeh or another WR in free agency. This with a healthy WR group and several players in the draft could make them a powerful force in the NFC West. The Rams signed James Brown as their new center and will probably be more active in FA.

Saying that the Cards will probably win or "will be competing for that playoff spot" is based upon nothing other than your judgment of the team. However every year the NFL changes with teams getting better or worse. Warner is visiting the 49ers. Arrington (Cards RB) may go to Denver or another team. The Cards are not in a good place salary cap wise compared to the 49ers or other NFC West teams.

The Rams have the #2 pick in the draft, Seahawks #4, 49ers #10, and the Cards #31. The Seahawks are not far away from making the playoffs again.

I mean the Cards only won 2 more games than the 49ers...

plus the seahawks are a good team when they have players fit, I mean last year they were plagued with injuries.

[CanadianBoltFan]

I bet you they will give over both of the 1st if asked. Kirwin has been saying that Peppers hasn't signed the tag yet because he was waiting to hear from NE. Supposedly as soon as Cassel got traded, NE contacted Car and talks have started.


Why do they need Peppers?

I always thought everyone said NE has the best front 3 ina 3-4 defense if the NFL.

[BoltBacker4Life]

Why do they need Peppers?

I always thought everyone said NE has the best front 3 ina 3-4 defense if the NFL.

Their LB core has gone down the last couple of years and Peppers now wants to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme

If we had the room and the picks to play with, I would love to bring Peppers in here and have he and Merriman on opposite sides

[OC Chargers]

The Patsies have just made another crooked deal with the Chiefs so I expect the Commissioner to investigate that and put a hold on any other personnel activity until it is settled. After that, they'll get fined a few draft picks and will be just as irrelevant this season as they were last season.

[estradvs]

we run a 3-4 and we have holes at ILB,OL,DL,& S.

now where would you people plug in Peppers at?? Safety?? cmon,get real people. Peppers could demand a $75-85 Mill. contract and he has no place in a 3-4,and yet you people are whining about 'AJ is a supid idiot fart face cause he doesnt spend his life savings year in & year out' some people on here are the Cutler of forums when it comes to whining

[charger1_sj]

If I were the Panthers, I'd reject that offer. "Make it your top 1st round pick & your top 2nd round pick and you've got yourself a deal. Otherwise, sign him to a franchise tag contract and fork over two 1st round picks. Your choice, take it or leave it."

BTW They're not going to pay Wilfork and other Pats at the expense of bringing in Peppers? The Pats have several of "their own" due big money whose rookie contracts are expiring. That'll be a mighty happy locker room if they don't pay their own guys.

After all, the Pats were hard pressed against the cap before sending Vrabel and Cassell elsewhere. The money they cleared out takes care of Peppers, their rookie cap and not too much beyond that.

Just wondering where your getting the info from. The source I saw had the Pats $25M under the projected cap for 2009. That was before they tagged Cassell. But with that out of the way they should be a least $25M under or more. The Chargers by comparison are projected $18M under the cap.

Now I know these numbers move around alot, especially at this time of the year. However I don't think the Pats are up against salary cap issues for 2009. It looks to me like they could sign Peppers, their incoming rookies and then some.

[JoeMcRugby]

Just wondering where your getting the info from. The source I saw had the Pats $25M under the projected cap for 2009. That was before they tagged Cassell. But with that out of the way they should be a least $25M under or more. The Chargers by comparison are projected $18M under the cap.

Now I know these numbers move around alot, especially at this time of the year. However I don't think the Pats are up against salary cap issues for 2009. It looks to me like they could sign Peppers, their incoming rookies and then some.

It was from a mainstream article - ESPN or NFL.com - yesterday.

I'll try to find the link.

[charger1_sj]

It was from a mainstream article - ESPN or NFL.com - yesterday.

I'll try to find the link.

Signing Cassell to the Franchise Tag would have gotten them to around $10M in cap space, maybe less. Now that he's off the books they're back to around $25M.

[JoeMcRugby]

Here it is from Peter King's column today. According to King, they were so close to the cap ceiling that they needed Moss to restructure to allow them to sign Fred Taylor to a contract costing $2.3 million in 2009 cap space:
_________________________________________

As free agency dawned, the Pats were $1.7-million under the cap, and they saved $1 million by restructuring Randy Moss (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/4262)' contract. That allowed them to sign running back Fred Taylor (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/4259) on Friday afternoon (two years, $8 million, approximately $2.3 in 2009 cap dollars).

But to get a really big chunk, Belichick needed to do something really big, like dealing Vrabel (saving $3.36 million on the cap) and Cassel (saving $14.65 million). If he dealt Cassel and Vrabel, he'd be able to operate freely with $18 million in cap room ... and have more leverage in the 2009 draft than any other team in the league.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/index.html?eref=T1

[charger1_sj]

Here it is from Peter King's column today. According to King, they were so close to the cap ceiling that they needed Moss to restructure to allow them to sign Fred Taylor to a contract costing $2.3 million in 2009 cap space:
_________________________________________

As free agency dawned, the Pats were $1.7-million under the cap, and they saved $1 million by restructuring Randy Moss (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/4262)' contract. That allowed them to sign running back Fred Taylor (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/4259) on Friday afternoon (two years, $8 million, approximately $2.3 in 2009 cap dollars).

But to get a really big chunk, Belichick needed to do something really big, like dealing Vrabel (saving $3.36 million on the cap) and Cassel (saving $14.65 million). If he dealt Cassel and Vrabel, he'd be able to operate freely with $18 million in cap room ... and have more leverage in the 2009 draft than any other team in the league.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/03/01/freeagency/index.html?eref=T1

OK, didn't know they got Taylor. Makes a little more sense now. Cassell was the big problem and they solved that one.

[biggestfan]

OK, didn't know they got Taylor. Makes a little more sense now. Cassell was the big problem and they solved that one.
If this is true and the pats are pursuing Peppers.Thats gonna suck.

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

What is keeping the Spanos' from signing a Peppers?

Because their operational revenues are going towards extending PR, Merriman, McNeill, Cromartie, Gates, VJ and others. Signing Peppers means giving him Merriman's money - i.e. robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Not a single owner goes into his own wallet to pay their players. Despite one of the top 10 stadiums in stadium capacity and selling out all games since midseason 2004, the Chargers are in the bottom half-dozen teams in revenues.

As for the bonuses "eventually" catching up: that only happens when you make a habit of it - if you make it a habit, it forces you to "churn the roster" as we've seen happen to many teams (including the Cowboys and Redskins) as they are unable to pursue their own starters who they want to keep and/or they are forced to release starters under contract to get under the cap.

The Pats don't make a habit of signing UFAs to these kinds of contracts, so they aren't likely to be in a "cap hell" position.

When the cap doesn't increase at a good rate and the churning of the roster isn't enough to get you under the cap, you have reached cap hell. So long as the cap keeps increasing at a big rate each year, even teams like the Skins and Cowboys can avoid cap hell with their normal roster churning tactics.

The Skins lucked out in 2006. They were facing cap hell as the new CBA adoption deadline was reached and extended before the new CBA was adopted at the last second. They would have had to jettison a good portion of their roster if the cap hadn't gone upwards in 2006.

The question wasn't directly related so much about why we aren't signing Peppers, specifically. I was wondering why you brought up the brand new Gillette Stadium and PSL's and all that. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with our ability to sign free agents or not. We're in the bottom 10 for revenue yet we're still spending near the max of the cap each year. I wasn't clear on what one thing had to do with the other.

I get that it's putting less money into Spanos' pocket each year, to sign guys like Merriman and PR and what not. And that's why we aren't going after big name free agents.

[charger1_sj]

The question wasn't directly related so much about why we aren't signing Peppers, specifically. I was wondering why you brought up the brand new Gillette Stadium and PSL's and all that. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with our ability to sign free agents or not. We're in the bottom 10 for revenue yet we're still spending near the max of the cap each year. I wasn't clear on what one thing had to do with the other.

I get that it's putting less money into Spanos' pocket each year, to sign guys like Merriman and PR and what not. And that's why we aren't going after big name free agents.

There's two aspects. One is paying the big bonus money up front. The other is cap management. Cap management is an on going issue and everybody is in the same boat. However paying huge signing bonuses up front brings in the PSL and non-sharing revenue arguments. Those teams that bring in more money will have more money on hand to dole out. Then they'll deal with cap management later by restructuring and cutting vet players on the back end of their deals. If a team doesn't bring in the extra revenues then they have to rely on the owners ability to come up with the cash. According to Joe, that doesn't happen. Money paid to the players comes from operations.

[JoeMcRugby]

There's two aspects. One is paying the big bonus money up front. The other is cap management. Cap management is an on going issue and everybody is in the same boat. However paying huge signing bonuses up front brings in the PSL and non-sharing revenue arguments. Those teams that bring in more money will have more money on hand to dole out. Then they'll deal with cap management later by restructuring and cutting vet players on the back end of their deals. If a team doesn't bring in the extra revenues then they have to rely on the owners ability to come up with the cash. According to Joe, that doesn't happen. Money paid to the players comes from operations.

That's exactly it - and no different than any other "for profit" business venture in this country.

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

That's exactly it - and no different than any other "for profit" business venture in this country.

You mean the Chargers don't operate as a public not-for profit community service?! THE HELL YOU SAY!

[Al "T.D." Bundy]

There's two aspects. One is paying the big bonus money up front. The other is cap management. Cap management is an on going issue and everybody is in the same boat. However paying huge signing bonuses up front brings in the PSL and non-sharing revenue arguments. Those teams that bring in more money will have more money on hand to dole out. Then they'll deal with cap management later by restructuring and cutting vet players on the back end of their deals. If a team doesn't bring in the extra revenues then they have to rely on the owners ability to come up with the cash. According to Joe, that doesn't happen. Money paid to the players comes from operations.

I understand all this.

Bottom line, as far as I see it, when it's all said and done, we're spending the same, or close to, amount of money on our players that the Pats, Cowboys, and just about every other team in the NFL is spending on theirs. So when you say, "those teams that bring in more money will have more moeny on hand to dole out", I get confused, because it's not like the Chargers are trying to stay $50 or even $20 mil under the cap. We have just as much money to spend as the next guy.

I guess I'm just not doing a very good job of explaining what it is exactly I don't understand, so I'll just forget it.

[charger1_sj]

I understand all this.

Bottom line, as far as I see it, when it's all said and done, we're spending the same, or close to, amount of money on our players that the Pats, Cowboys, and just about every other team in the NFL is spending on theirs. So when you say, "those teams that bring in more money will have more moeny on hand to dole out", I get confused, because it's not like the Chargers are trying to stay $50 or even $20 mil under the cap. We have just as much money to spend as the next guy.

I guess I'm just not doing a very good job of explaining what it is exactly I don't understand, so I'll just forget it.

Two columns. One is what you pay the players in a given year. The other one is what counts towards the salary cap for that year. What you pay in a given year can be much more than the salary cap hit you take.

Bonus money is spread out over the life of the contract, BUT it can be payed out in big chunks or all at once. Thus Michael Turner got payed $16M last year, but only $3.5 of it counted towards the Falcons cap. The ability of the Falcons paying out that $16M depends on what the team has on hand as money reserves that comes from operations. Thus signing two or more MT's will depend largely on what cash is on hand. Teams with greater revenue will obviously have more cash on hand for those big deals.