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  #151  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:05 PM
meachmayne meachmayne is offline
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glad he's back, and one thing i think we all can agree was better this off-season was more realistically evaluating and compensating players. castillo is a nice player? yep. worth the 43 million extension? nope. glad he's back, cheaper. same goes for hester.
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  #152  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by drangus View Post
what is the difference when and if the #1 goes down? Doesn't the number #2 become the defacto #1 at that point? Why not go get a guy that has been a #1, understands blitz pickup, and then draft another guy that will replace him next year as our #2.

You see, IMO, if the #2 is not capable of being a number one or at least have the potential to be a #1, then he has no business being the #2
So we should have backups that are as good as the starters everywhere? If only....

I think Hester would be as good as Tolbert as a #2 RB. I'm curious to see if he assumes that roles. He's sure better than Brinkley who is the only other option to backup RM on the roster.
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  #153  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Thunderstruck View Post
Like I said, no one debates that we overspent on Hester. But there's a difference between someone believing that a future 2nd and 5th was too much for a third round pick, and believing that Hester was a first-round pick, which he wasn't.
The correct way to analyze the trade is as follows:

Quote:
In April 2008:

- The Chargers acquired the 69th pick in the 2008 draft in exchange for ...

- The 163rd pick in the 2008 draft and the 47th pick in the 2009 draft.
A very legitimate argument can be made that the Chargers overpaid to acquire Hester, but the payment wasn't remotely close to a 1st rounder.

Although limited in realistic value, the trade value chart (where future picks are lowered by a round due to the fact that you don't get to utilize the pick until a year later) shows that to acquire the 69th pick (245 points value), the Chargers gave up 221.2 points (26.2 for the 2008 5th rounder, 195 points for the 2009 2nd rounder after the year delay devaluation).

Overpaid? Absolutely, especially given AJ's struggles during the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Overpaid to such an extent that Hester is still tarred & feathered, drawn & quartered and spat upon on this board 4 years later? Not IMO, but that's just me.
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  #154  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by meachmayne View Post
glad he's back, and one thing i think we all can agree was better this off-season was more realistically evaluating and compensating players. castillo is a nice player? yep. worth the 43 million extension? nope. glad he's back, cheaper. same goes for hester.
Thankfully, Luis didn't actually bank anywhere close to $43 million from that extension. The contract was structured to where they could cut off the contract at any time - and they did it after he spent a season on IR.

As for Hester, he's never made $$$. He was a 3rd round pick who probably banked just over $1 million above the minimum (spread over his 4 seasons as a Charger).
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Last edited by JoeMcRugby; 04-16-2012 at 05:22 PM..
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  #155  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMcRugby View Post
The correct way to analyze the trade is as follows:



A very legitimate argument can be made that the Chargers overpaid to acquire Hester, but the payment wasn't remotely close to a 1st rounder.

Although limited in realistic value, the trade value chart (where future picks are lowered by a round due to the fact that you don't get to utilize the pick until a year later) shows that to acquire the 69th pick (245 points value), the Chargers gave up 221.2 points (26.2 for the 2008 5th rounder, 195 points for the 2009 2nd rounder after the year delay devaluation).

Overpaid? Absolutely, especially given AJ's struggles during the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Overpaid to such an extent that Hester is still tarred & feathered, drawn & quartered and spat upon on this board 4 years later? Not IMO, but that's just me.
Exactly. Everything always becomes clear in retrospect.

In principle, I wouldn't have a problem with making the same trade in the future (a 3rd rounder for a future second and a fifth) but obviously what makes the trade good or bad in retrospect is the guy you draft with that 3rd rounder. I'm pretty sure the Chargers didn't anticipate Hester being just a serviceable FB and good special teams player when they took him.
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  #156  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:22 PM
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The Chargers offense hasn't been itself the past 2 years. I'm talking about VJ and MM holding out one year, and last year having to play catch up in so many games.

FB Manumaleuna was here thru the 2009 season, Hester was drafted in 2008. Aside from his rookie year and then the 2009 season when Manu was still playing here, that leaves the not so great 2010 and 2011 seasons for Hester to have come into his own.

I'm just saying it's unfortunate that the 2010 and 2011 seasons were a mess, and that he might have had more playing time and clicked with the offense if it wasn't so "musical chairs" the past two years.

Addendum.

On March 5, 2010, Fullback Manumaleuna signed a five-year $15 million deal ($6.1 guaranteed) contract with the Chicago Bears on the first day of free agency. He was released on July 28, 2011, after ONE season in Chicago

Last edited by Caslon; 04-16-2012 at 06:30 PM..
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  #157  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck View Post
Exactly. Everything always becomes clear in retrospect.

In principle, I wouldn't have a problem with making the same trade in the future (a 3rd rounder for a future second and a fifth) but obviously what makes the trade good or bad in retrospect is the guy you draft with that 3rd rounder. I'm pretty sure the Chargers didn't anticipate Hester being just a serviceable FB and good special teams player when they took him.
This was never a sound draft pick.

Hester was a significant over-payment in draft picks for his type of player. The problem is that players like Hester are readily available in rounds 5-7. No excuse for blowing a 2nd round pick for a role player/journeyman...or for that matter a FB.

Hester doesnt have the speed or talent to be a halfback in the NFL for those who actually think he will be the back-up to Mathews. Back-up FB and special teams player for a modest salary... ok.
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  #158  
Old 04-16-2012, 07:52 PM
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Hester belongs on a team that's blessed with a favorable schedule, loads of talent, few injuries and a great coach.

Last edited by Caslon; 04-16-2012 at 07:56 PM..
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  #159  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck View Post
Like I said, no one debates that we overspent on Hester. But there's a difference between someone believing that a future 2nd and 5th was too much for a third round pick, and believing that Hester was a first-round pick, which he wasn't.
Agreed, he was not drafted in the first round. Not sure why anyone would say it was a first rounder, but at the end of the day a 2 and a 5 is still a ridiculous price.
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  #160  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMcRugby View Post
The correct way to analyze the trade is as follows:



A very legitimate argument can be made that the Chargers overpaid to acquire Hester, but the payment wasn't remotely close to a 1st rounder.

Although limited in realistic value, the trade value chart (where future picks are lowered by a round due to the fact that you don't get to utilize the pick until a year later) shows that to acquire the 69th pick (245 points value), the Chargers gave up 221.2 points (26.2 for the 2008 5th rounder, 195 points for the 2009 2nd rounder after the year delay devaluation).

Overpaid? Absolutely, especially given AJ's struggles during the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Overpaid to such an extent that Hester is still tarred & feathered, drawn & quartered and spat upon on this board 4 years later? Not IMO, but that's just me.
I haven't tarred and feathered anyone and I don't hold the kid responsible for the FOs mistake. At the same time, I don't like it when people try to minimize the price that was paid for him when other posters express frustration over that fact. Unfortunately he was not been able to justify that move on the field ala Weddle, trust me, I wish he had. Fair or not, that stigma is going to follow him during his career.

I do feel (I'm entitled to my opion as you are yours) that he is just not an NFL caliber talent at either position (FB or RB), if they brought him in as a STs only player, I have no problem with that. We've had ST ace types in the past, granted those guys went to probowls, but lets not open that can of worms.

I do find it odd that folks believe we can turn to him to carry the load should Mathews go down. What have you guys seen in 4 years that I have missed? I just can't see that scenario unfolding no matter what kind of glasses I put on.

And I'll say it again, I know, it's been discussed, I don't doubt it, the kid is one of the good guys. But I'm a charger fan and I want a winner, not a collection of nice guys that can't make the playoffs. Are we running for office or are we trying to win a SB?
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