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  #31  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
I am sure we will have to make some concessions. But pass rusher is not the place to do it. In a good 3-4, the outside linebackers should be the primary pass rushers. Having Jarret Johnson man one of the positions isn't going to get the job done. It essentially would allow offensive lines to shift protection towards whatever side he wasn't lining up on. I would honestly rather address pass rusher over cornerback, though both would be ideal.

Loadholt is actually one of the guys who I think is strictly RT only. He doesn't have the footspeed to play the left side.

We've already paid to keep Floyd around, Alexander is looking like a contributor, and Brown is on his way back. It's not as though our WR is perfect at all, but I put it a lot farther down the priority list than the OL, the secondary, or pass rusher. I also think that the receivers have gotten a lot more of the blame for our passing issues than they deserve as people seek to defense PR. If he gets himself right, this group is fine.
I hope I'm not sounding argumentative (I really do enjoy the discussion), but of the two possible scenarios, which would you consider the lesser of two evils:

-JJ and Ingram as starting OLBs
or...
-Jammer and S.Wright as starting CBs

I, too, would like to see both upgraded, but if we had to make a choice, the money HAS to go to CB. I'm all for drafting another OLB, but we can't count on a day 1 starter. Other than Avril, I don't think there's a FA that can come in and make a true impact as a pass rusher (not sold on Barwin, either). I would be all for adding Avril, but that would probably be at the expense of landing Cox or Grimes.

Here's how I'd prioritize the money:
1. Vasquez
2. Loadholt/Levitre
3. Cox/Grimes
4. OLB (depth)
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  #32  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
I hope I'm not sounding argumentative (I really do enjoy the discussion), but of the two possible scenarios, which would you consider the lesser of two evils:

-JJ and Ingram as starting OLBs
or...
-Jammer and S.Wright as starting CBs

I, too, would like to see both upgraded, but if we had to make a choice, the money HAS to go to CB. I'm all for drafting another OLB, but we can't count on a day 1 starter. Other than Avril, I don't think there's a FA that can come in and make a true impact as a pass rusher (not sold on Barwin, either). I would be all for adding Avril, but that would probably be at the expense of landing Cox or Grimes.

Here's how I'd prioritize the money:
1. Vasquez
2. Loadholt/Levitre
3. Cox/Grimes
4. OLB (depth)
You're not at all man; this is great.

I would disagree and say that Jammer/Wright are the lesser of two evils. I think that those two behind a better pass rush would stand a better chance than Wright/Rookie behind an anemic pass rush.

But I also don't believe we'll necessarily have to make that call. Like I said in the OP, if we can just invest in two of these four positions in free agency it would free up the first two picks to invest in the other two. Of course things would have to break right in the draft, but at this rate we should be picking high enough to at least have a halfway decent chance.

My ideal scenario would be to sign Cox and an offensive lineman, and a few other depth FA's, and then draft for more offensive line help and a pass rusher. That's the approach that makes the most sense to me, given the FA class.
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  #33  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:58 PM
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You're not at all man; this is great.

I would disagree and say that Jammer/Wright are the lesser of two evils. I think that those two behind a better pass rush would stand a better chance than Wright/Rookie behind an anemic pass rush.

But I also don't believe we'll necessarily have to make that call. Like I said in the OP, if we can just invest in two of these four positions in free agency it would free up the first two picks to invest in the other two. Of course things would have to break right in the draft, but at this rate we should be picking high enough to at least have a halfway decent chance.

My ideal scenario would be to sign Cox and an offensive lineman, and a few other depth FA's, and then draft for more offensive line help and a pass rusher. That's the approach that makes the most sense to me, given the FA class.
Definitely wouldn't count on a rookie CB to start.

How about we roll with Jammer and Wright starting, draft OLB and OL in the first two rounds, we'd need stop-gaps at SS AND OLB, right? There isn't really anyone enticing, is there?

If we don't sign a CB, we'd need to draft one high. But we've already used our top picks elsewhere. I'd be more incline to take Avril, so we could draft CB high. Jammer and Wright start, still need to sign a SS...
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  #34  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:07 PM
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Definitely wouldn't count on a rookie CB to start.

How about we roll with Jammer and Wright starting, draft OLB and OL in the first two rounds, we'd need stop-gaps at SS AND OLB, right? There isn't really anyone enticing, is there?

If we don't sign a CB, we'd need to draft one high. But we've already used our top picks elsewhere. I'd be more incline to take Avril, so we could draft CB high. Jammer and Wright start, still need to sign a SS...
If we keep Jammer at CB, then I would just keep Bigby around and hope that Brandon Taylor is ready to start contributing in his second year.

In your scenario where we roll with Wright and Jammer, and then draft OL and OLB high, who are spending on in FA? If we spent on a corner, we could then have someone who we know can start (as opposed to a rookie corner).

I am wary of Avril. He has also come off as a bonehead and he hasn't rushed the passer well of late, despite dealing almost exclusively with right tackles.
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  #35  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:42 PM
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Agreed. But as much potential as Wright shows, it's concerning that he can't beat out Cason for the starting job. As bad as Cason has been in the games, we're not able to see what the coaches see in practice. I hope he pans out. That means we just need to make one solid CB signing, and ... wait for it ... move Jammer to SS.
Well, Wright has been injured. When he's been in, I haven't seem him getting beat.
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:44 AM
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If we keep Jammer at CB, then I would just keep Bigby around and hope that Brandon Taylor is ready to start contributing in his second year.

In your scenario where we roll with Wright and Jammer, and then draft OL and OLB high, who are spending on in FA? If we spent on a corner, we could then have someone who we know can start (as opposed to a rookie corner).

I am wary of Avril. He has also come off as a bonehead and he hasn't rushed the passer well of late, despite dealing almost exclusively with right tackles.
I think our best course would be to add a CB through FA, roll with Wright on the other side and move Jammer to SS (no green text). I see Warmack (Alabama) as I guy we could get in the middle of the 1st and can step in and start from day 1. Don't know how deep this draft is with 3-4 OLB but I would hope we can get one in the 2nd. But I know this draft is deep at CB. Even if we signed a vet, I wouldn't mind drafting a CB in the 2nd, either (unless Gilchrist starts to show some promise, but I'm not holding my breath).

In the scenario with Wright and Jammer as our starting CBs, I agree we would have to keep Bigby. Draft OL and OLB high and spend FA money on OT (my best hope would be draft Warmack, sign Loadholt). If we draft an OLB in the 2nd round, would you agree we'd have to add a lower-tier veteran for depth (or keep Barnes or English)?
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  #37  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:46 AM
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A few things impress me.

1. The amount of work the OP put into this thread... very good well thought out.

2. The lack of league wide household names on the list. There isn't a Nnamdi or a Williams out there who every team is going to be screaming for there GM to sign.

I don't know much about these guys...

Still I think we need some vet help at CB. Jammer is getting up there in years and is clearly on the decline... he isn't declining as quickly as I expected but any day now he is going to not have it anymore. Cason hasn't lived up to his 1st round billing... but then again plenty of 1st rounder’s in the league bust. I am not ready for Gilchrist and Wright to be thrown to the wolves. One of them maybe, but not both. Cox might be a good pickup... but injury issues are major issues. It comes down to price... if we can get him on a low risk high reward deal I would give it a shot a la Bob Sanders. (I know he didn't work out but it was a cheap deal that we didn't lose anything on.)

We defiantly need a new guard… It surprises me that Vasquez is going to be one of the best on the market. Granted OL I probably the 2nd most difficult position for fans to judge (under 3-4 DL IMO.) Troutman hopefully pays off… it was a low pick but to be honest picking a guy who had near 0 chance of playing this season annoyed me. Still today he is a Bolt so I am on his side. I don’t think I want any rookie starters on the OL if it can be avoided. River I to immobile and old to be the victim of the learning curve. (And whether I like it or not I think he is the QB for at least another season because we aren’t drafting high enough to get a top rookie and I suspect his deal would be cap hell to terminate though I need to find the details.)
The Tackle position ha been an annoying one. IMO (but I’m not a good judge of OL) Harris has played pretty good for a UDFA. Still… I am not sure I am ready for him to be a starter. He is at potential now.

Phillips is a guy I am not sure we can break the bank for with hi age. With that said Ingram will probably be put in the starting role sooner rather then later and I am ok with that. With what I am reading here if we pick someone up it will be rotational… and maybe Phillips gets resigned.

With the other notables I would like to see us place a bid for Steven Jackson. With that said I suspect he is the type of player that someone will overpay and overuse and but with… and I don’t want that to be us. The thought of a Mathews-Jackson one two punch I intriguing… With Brown or another receiving back coming in on 3rd and passing situation. With that said I while I want us to b id… I don’t think we win.
I don’t see Maualuga ending up here after legal issues.
I agree that we bring in a vet if Takeo retire/walks… but I am not sure he wants to and I think he is still a good enough 2 down linemen where he will find a job somewhere.
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:22 AM
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Nnamdi will actually almost certainly end up on this list. His play has declined and he's due 15M next seasons. Either he takes a huge pay cut (not likely), or the Eagles cut him.

Vasquez is having his best year this season. He's always been good in spurts, but he's showing some consistency. I would be fine with a rookie OL starting if it represented an upgrade. A top shelf rookie OT (Joeckel for instance) would almost definitely be a step up despite not having experience.

IMO, Harris has played like a UDFA. He's been routinely abused ever since week one, regardless of who he is facing. Daniel Teo-Nesheim embarrassed him on Sunday. He's not a plausible plan B at left tackle.

Not sure we'd have to break the bank to keep Phillips. It's not like he's having a pro bowl year. Performance dictates salary and his performance has been middling. I do think we need to try and keep him and find another pass rusher in the draft (1st or 2nd round) to rotate. Johnson, Barnes, and English have brought very little to the table this year in terms of pass rush and it's showed.

If you're smart (and able), I think you fix the pass rush first and then cornerback.
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  #39  
Old 11-15-2012, 02:03 PM
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Pass rush before cb definitely.
That said I want to know who is our dc in 2013 and their general scheme before throwing out opinions.
Not reason to believe it wont be pagano regardless of the hc. Pags imo has shown just enough and not too much to be let got by a new incoming hc, or leave for a hc vacancy, although ive been suprised before.

Im not in the rebuilding camp, I hope pags stays and if he does, I wonder if he would consider the jammer to safety idea and implement it assuming he wasnt given full rein as a first year dc. Regardless, I prefer a vet cb, first round pass rusher, second round ol. As of today.
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  #40  
Old 11-15-2012, 02:17 PM
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If we bring in an offensive or ST minded head coach, or a defensive guy who uses a 3-4, I can see Pagano sticking. But if we bring in someone who runs a 4-3 (Zimmer), then he probably wouldn't.

Of course, there's every chance he's let go regardless. Chips fall where they may in regime changes. Some people just have "their guy."
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