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  #61  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:03 PM
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I believe they were using their 10th string QB and other than Fitz have THE worst offense at each position in the NFL.
Still. 5 ints!!

They must have the worst offense in history
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  #62  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:04 PM
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Still. 5 ints!!

They must have the worst offense in history
Give us time, the season ain't over yet.
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  #63  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:26 PM
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Give us time, the season ain't over yet.
Sadface...
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  #64  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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Sadface...
Yeah, we could pretty much take down the entire chargers.com site and replace it with a single blank page that has


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  #65  
Old 11-19-2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pacstud22 View Post
I believe they were using their 10th string QB and other than Fitz have THE worst offense at each position in the NFL.
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Originally Posted by WootMonkey View Post
Still. 5 ints!!

They must have the worst offense in history
Yeah, the only GM in the league who has screwed his offense over worse than A.J. is Rod Graves. Yesterday, I believe they started:

QB: Skelton

LT: Potter
LG: Colledge
C: Sendlein
RG: Snyder
RT: Massie
TE: Housler

RB: Stephens-Howling
FB: Sherman

WR: Fitzgerald
WR: Roberts

They actually have a nice receiving corps, but beyond that it's garbage. Very few good QB's could overcome that line, let alone John Skelton.
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  #66  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:15 AM
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I don't know how I've missed this thread. Great job, Kemp. I would absolutely love Levitre too, but I hear the Bills are going to make a priority of keeping their OL together though, so it may be a pipe dream. Smith would be a nice option too, but again, I don't know what will happen in Cincy, because I think he likes playing for Lewis, and just might take a little less to stay where and with who he's comfortable and familiar with.

Much of the speculation thus far is predicated on us returning to the 3-4 base defense again next year as well. This may, or may not happen, as you've mentioned already, but depending on whom we bring in as HC, and the offensive/defensive systems he plans on running, then we'll have to look at who we have, and how they fit a new (4-3) system, and then revisit our draft/FA priorities.

The arguments in the past has always been to maintain continuity in the systems, both offensive and defensive. That has produced Norv, Cottrell, Rivera, and now Pagano, and a year after year decline. Ownership may finally look at this and ask the question: Has maintaining scheme/system continuity really been worth it?

And then, there's our owners. I'm going to post a piece you wrote in one of your earlier posts in this thread, Kemp, and I'd like to hear what you think about this. I live in Florida now, and have been out of the San Diego area for a little over 20 years. Even though I scour the net for info about the team, I'm still not "there," and don't have the pulse of the community, and what others there think. Here's what you said, followed by my questions regarding your statement.

"If A.J. gets the boot, we will see what he new GM's philosophy on free agency is."

Okay, my questions are these:

1 - Do you know if the Chargers "philosophy" on free agency has been AJ's, or Spanos?

2 - If it has been the "Spanos philosophy," that will certainly affect who our next GM/HC is going to be too, IMO. Therefore, does that then affect your own list of GM/HC candidates?

I ask these questions because when I lived back there and had season tix, the owner at the time was Klien. When Alex originally bought the team, my friends and I were really happy due to the vast difference in working capital of the Spanos family, and the Kliens. However, right then we dumped a lot of salary, and it just seems this organization has mostly been run on the cheap ever since.

Here is what makes me say that, and to some extent, I personally wonder if AJ himself hasn't taken a few "bullets" from the media and the fans for the Spanos family.

1 - At the beginning of AJ's tenure, after Butler passed away, he drafted quite deftly, and more so for BPA, rather than need. That seemed to change suddenly, once we became truly competitive, when he started trying to hit on a few perceived needs, as well as Merriman's roid problem and threats to go FA, then his injury. Not knowing that VJ was on the verge of coming into his own, he went for Davis, and his drafting of English. I understood the "whys" of each pick...but I still did not like them when we made them. Still, I understood what he was trying to accomplish.

2 - AJ also began giving out contract extensions to players once they got a good year or two under their belts. Castillo is a good example here, but there are others as well, with Clary being right up there too.

3 - The first time the Chargers announced they were going to let LT go, there came a huge public outcry. At that point, Dean steps in and states they would sit down and figure a way to bring LT back.

4 - I never once heard or read where AJ said he didn't want to play in the FA market at all. All the interviews and articles I saw, heard, or read he only stated they had to "fit into our budget."

5 - And lastly, a few years back we had both McNeil and VJ holding out for more money. Neither signed until well into the season, and in VJ's case, he hardly even played due to other things. That was the last really good Chargers team...and it missed the playoffs by one game.

So, what's all this really mean and how does it affect us going forward as it pertains to A) hiring a new GM, if that's the actual plan, and B) hiring a new HC, which I'm going to assume is the plan, and finally, C) going after quality FAs and not the bottom of the "what's left after everyone else as picked though the pile" that's been our strategy until this last year?

If indeed, AJ has been taking the proverbial "bullets" for Spanos, as I think he has, or at least to a major extent, what does that say about our organization going forward, and who is available with talent as a GM or/and HC who would want to work under the same conditions?

If I'm right, or even partly right, then AJ has been working with his hands cuffed behind his back during his whole tenure here.

Consider this. What if AJ knew he didn't have the type of financial support from his owner that his contemporaries have, such as in NE? Might this not explain why he took some of these chances when we were close? Might not this explain why Spanos stepped in to sign LT to a big contract because of his perceived loss of ticket revenue, instead of say giving Sproles an extension, or one or two different players...not to mention he publicly undermined his GM? And, by signing Castillo and others to long-term extensions well before their initial contracts expired, wasn't AJ betting on their continued development and against them getting hurt or/and regressing in order to get them signed to a contract that actually would have been much less than what they would have been able to sign had he been right about their progression and they hit the FA market?

These are just some of my questions, and not living there I really don't have the pulse of the city/fans, and I'd like your thoughts, if you wouldn't mind. Also, I hope I'm not getting out of the thread topic, but we are talking FAs here, and that has to start with our owner...not our GM.
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  #67  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:32 AM
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I did forget to mention that things on the financial front should now change under the new CBA, so it may not affect the hiring process, and perhaps our ability to play in the FA market, as well as keep our own players going forward. However, I do honestly wonder who's fault it is for the mess that has become the Chargers under the old CBA.
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  #68  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:25 PM
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Yeah, we could pretty much take down the entire chargers.com site and replace it with a single blank page that has


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  #69  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:32 PM
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When do they officially kick off next years season tickets? It's been so long since I've had mine. Just wondering, ticket sales will be atrocious until a HC is announced.
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  #70  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
1. The arguments in the past has always been to maintain continuity in the systems, both offensive and defensive. That has produced Norv, Cottrell, Rivera, and now Pagano, and a year after year decline. Ownership may finally look at this and ask the question: Has maintaining scheme/system continuity really been worth it?

"If A.J. gets the boot, we will see what he new GM's philosophy on free agency is."

Okay, my questions are these:

2. Do you know if the Chargers "philosophy" on free agency has been AJ's, or Spanos?

3. If it has been the "Spanos philosophy," that will certainly affect who our next GM/HC is going to be too, IMO. Therefore, does that then affect your own list of GM/HC candidates?

4. At the beginning of AJ's tenure, after Butler passed away, he drafted quite deftly, and more so for BPA, rather than need. That seemed to change suddenly, once we became truly competitive, when he started trying to hit on a few perceived needs, as well as Merriman's roid problem and threats to go FA, then his injury. Not knowing that VJ was on the verge of coming into his own, he went for Davis, and his drafting of English. I understood the "whys" of each pick...but I still did not like them when we made them. Still, I understood what he was trying to accomplish.

5. AJ also began giving out contract extensions to players once they got a good year or two under their belts. Castillo is a good example here, but there are others as well, with Clary being right up there too.

6. The first time the Chargers announced they were going to let LT go, there came a huge public outcry. At that point, Dean steps in and states they would sit down and figure a way to bring LT back.

7. I never once heard or read where AJ said he didn't want to play in the FA market at all. All the interviews and articles I saw, heard, or read he only stated they had to "fit into our budget."

8. And lastly, a few years back we had both McNeil and VJ holding out for more money. Neither signed until well into the season, and in VJ's case, he hardly even played due to other things. That was the last really good Chargers team...and it missed the playoffs by one game.

So, what's all this really mean and how does it affect us going forward as it pertains to A) hiring a new GM, if that's the actual plan, and B) hiring a new HC, which I'm going to assume is the plan, and finally, C) going after quality FAs and not the bottom of the "what's left after everyone else as picked though the pile" that's been our strategy until this last year?
1. At least on defense, I think the year after year decline has been due to lacking talent more than anything else. When our defense was top 5, we had Shawn Merriman, Shaun Phillips, Steven Foley, Jamal Williams, Quentin Jammer, Luis Castillo, and Igor Olshansky in their primes along with some good role players. Only two of those guys remain, and they're both getting long in the tooth. But as we see good young talent coming up (Ingram, Liuget, Butler, Reyes, etc) we're seeing that decline begin to reverse. So I think you ideally stay the course on defense and continue to add talent.

2. It is my understanding that our approach to FA has been A.J.'s doing. He is the one who has always spoken about his desire to keep our own players rather than sign other team's free agents (something he hasn't done a good job of). The Spanos family (with the exception of A.G. who works for A.J.) seems to believe in hiring a GM and getting out of the way. And they have spent at or near the cap in recent seasons, so I can't imagine that they are fine with spending that amount of money on our own guys but not other players. Bottom line, they'd be shelling out the same amount of dollars.

3. I don't have all that much insight into who the good GM candidates are out there. I would personally like to hire someone out of the Packers or Giants organizations. Anyone who has learned under Ted Thompson or Jerry Reese would be ideal because those two guys have a great understanding of how to use the draft and free agency in complimentary fashion. I can't imagine Spanos having an issue or limiting his own list of candidates because they may have been more liberal in free agency in the past (again, if the Spanos family is spending at or near the cap, what do they care where the money goes exactly as long as we're winning?).

4. I saw the same phenomenon, but I think it occurred for this reason: The early drafts under A.J. saw us picking in the top half of each round, and with a lot of perceived needs. So he didn't need to narrow down the list of positions he could draft (we had plenty of issues) and he had a lot more good choices (because we had higher picks). But once the team began playing well, the picks got worse (lesser prospects to choose from) and the "needs" got fewer. I think that's what caused A.J. to reach on guys like Buster, English, etc. He thought we were just one or two pieces away and so he nabbed whoever was best at that position on the board when we picked. It blew up in his face, as it will when a GM forsakes talent for need. I don't think it had anything to do with Spanos' willingness to spend, and had everything to do with A.J.'s belief that he was drafting the right players.

5. A.J.'s free agency philosophy has always revolved around extending players early. He believes in this method because, though you might end up paying a guy a little above what he's worth at first, if you extend him early he might outplay the contract and it may turn into a team-friendly deal. Great idea, but it went terribly in execution. But I don't believe the reason he takes that approach is to enable Spanos to spend less money, but rather to enable the team to keep all of the players it wants to rather than spend big on some while having to let others walk and sign with different teams.

6. I think LT was a unique situation so it's tough for me to project that instance over the whole of the Charger's handling of FA.

7. A.J. has always said that he wants to draft the right players and then keep them. That's his philosophy and that's why he's been less active in FA than most GM's. However, we did just see that when that fails (because he drafts poorly), he will go out and spend on the open market (Meachem, Royal, Johnson, Bigby, Franklin, Battle, Williams, etc.).

8. The McNeill and Jackson situations were unique in that A.J. was refusing to sign them based on CBA uncertainty. It was a mistake not to take the risk, at least with Jackson, and get them a reasonable contract. But I honestly can't say if that stance on not extending players was his or Spanos'. I want to say Spanos, because I get the feeling that all the owners had colluded to agree on a spending freeze until the players agreed on a new CBA, but that's only speculation and was a very unique situation in any case.

I certainly don't view Spanos in the light you do. Doesn't make me right, but I just believe that most of A.J.'s decisions were motivated by A.J.'s philosophy and not his owner's pocket book. And that we've been average to above average in terms of spending in recent seasons pokes holes in the notion that our realy trouble is an owner who won't open his wallet.
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