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  #41  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:32 AM
muffindonut72 muffindonut72 is offline
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Originally Posted by WootMonkey View Post
We still need a dominate pass rusher, shut down corner, could use a stud NT...

No need to trade down. As Kemp said quite well, we need quality not quantity. This team has good players, but it lacks impact players in key places.
If they insist on going with Rivers as their QB, then I would think that they would want to load up on their offensive line more so than anywhere else. Sure, the team has other areas of need, but there isn't going to be any offense without significant improvement on the offensive line.

Just for giggles, I was checking out Walter's mocks. I don't get it. In one mock they have the Chargers taking a nose tackle, and in other mock a cornerback.

ETA: http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013.php

Last edited by muffindonut72; 11-27-2012 at 10:40 AM..
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by muffindonut72 View Post
If they insist on going with Rivers as their QB, then I would think that they would want to load up on their offensive line more so than anywhere else. Sure, the team has other areas of need, but there isn't going to be any offense without significant improvement on the offensive line.

Just for giggles, I was checking out Walter's mocks. I don't get it. In one mock they have the Chargers taking a nose tackle, and in other mock a cornerback.

ETA: http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013.php
I agree, but he gave a scenario where the "blue chip" OT's were gone.

While I want them to go OL heavy as well, reaching for lesser talent is a recipe for disaster.

I guess we could justify Warmack, but top 10 for a guard seems high and if you trade down and miss on him then...rage

Last edited by WootMonkey; 11-27-2012 at 10:45 AM..
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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Yeah I know. But looking at these prospects makes me want a couple of em'. Just so tempting!!! Its like Black Friday.
If the true studs are gone (Joeckel and Star), and we have a trade offer that we could make while still confidently expecting Werner, Moore, Fisher, or Lewan to be available, then fine. Good even. But that scenario would be like trading from ~8 to ~12, not all the way down into the 20's.

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Originally Posted by muffindonut72 View Post
If they insist on going with Rivers as their QB, then I would think that they would want to load up on their offensive line more so than anywhere else. Sure, the team has other areas of need, but there isn't going to be any offense without significant improvement on the offensive line.

Just for giggles, I was checking out Walter's mocks. I don't get it. In one mock they have the Chargers taking a nose tackle, and in other mock a cornerback.

ETA: http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2013.php
I think OL needs to be the emphasis, but you still don't reach for need when value is on the board. If the top OT's are gone in the first, I would rather draft a pass rusher than reach for a fringe 1st round talent. Hopefully new management will use FA to better effect so we're not in a position to reach.
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  #44  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by muffindonut72 View Post
If they insist on going with Rivers as their QB, then I would think that they would want to load up on their offensive line more so than anywhere else. Sure, the team has other areas of need, but there isn't going to be any offense without significant improvement on the offensive line.

Just for giggles, I was checking out Walter's mocks. I don't get it. In one mock they have the Chargers taking a nose tackle, and in other mock a cornerback.
You act like OT is the ONLY position we have the option of drafting...

Depending on how this offseason works out, with Jammer and Cason, and Garay and Franklin (IIRC) all Free agents, we may need talent BAD at those positions.

NT is a position thats an option, simply because its so important, and theirs at least one, maybe 2 guys who are absolutely elite talent at the position. The reason to make this pick is because if we're getting an elite guy like Lotulelei or Hankins, that, almost right away, makes us one of the, if not the best DL's in the NFL. With Reyes, Liuget, Lotulelei, Thomas, and Martin. Its definintely a pick to make if we dont have the option of guys like Joeckel, Mingo, maybe Jones (though i'm still not sold on him and we've had enough back issues for a while on this team).

CB may be our biggest need right up there with OT, but its really not a position with tons of elite talent in this draft. I still have confidence in Gaither when he's healthy, but we need a much better backup plan, and the fact that it would cost more for us to get rid of him this year than keep him, he's the LT of this team for at least another year. I think we're going to end up with a OT in the 2nd or 3rd round who's a RT who can kick over to LT in situations, someone like Aboushi (who i'm still not sold on yet), Justin Pugh, Dallas Thomas among some others.
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  #45  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 AM
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You act like OT is the ONLY position we have the option of drafting...

Depending on how this offseason works out, with Jammer and Cason, and Garay and Franklin (IIRC) all Free agents, we may need talent BAD at those positions.

NT is a position thats an option, simply because its so important, and theirs at least one, maybe 2 guys who are absolutely elite talent at the position. The reason to make this pick is because if we're getting an elite guy like Lotulelei or Hankins, that, almost right away, makes us one of the, if not the best DL's in the NFL. With Reyes, Liuget, Lotulelei, Thomas, and Martin. Its definintely a pick to make if we dont have the option of guys like Joeckel, Mingo, maybe Jones (though i'm still not sold on him and we've had enough back issues for a while on this team).

CB may be our biggest need right up there with OT, but its really not a position with tons of elite talent in this draft. I still have confidence in Gaither when he's healthy, but we need a much better backup plan, and the fact that it would cost more for us to get rid of him this year than keep him, he's the LT of this team for at least another year. I think we're going to end up with a OT in the 2nd or 3rd round who's a RT who can kick over to LT in situations, someone like Aboushi (who i'm still not sold on yet), Justin Pugh, Dallas Thomas among some others.
I'm sold on Lotulelei if he's available, but not Hankins. Hankins has been underachieving all year and it looks like laziness to me. Whereas guys like Mingo are getting close to plays and just not sealing the deal, Hankins is pretty much quiet all around throughout most games. He rarely forces double teams because he's not making plays when he gets matched up one on one. He's playing like a really pedestrian talent right now. I know he's at least close to Star ability-wise because I've seen him flash, but his inconsistency and apparent lack of motor/drive completely turns me off to taking him in the first half of the first round. I have him 3rd for NT's behind John Jenkins.
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  #46  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:35 AM
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I'm just watching Mingo/Montgomery vs. Matthews/Joeckel. Mingo was hardly ever asked to flat out rush, but whenever he did, he caused pressure. They had him plaing a LOT of contain vs. Manziel, which can give the look of the OT dominating in pass pro, but they weren't rushing hard at all, they really tried to make Manziel throw from the pocket, only if he rolled out did Mingo have a chance to get pressure. Joeckel Played well, Matthews was just alright, but got beat whenever Mingo wanted to beat him (shows more about Mingo than him IMO). Mingo has as good of a burst as i've ever seen on a prospect, Von Miller type burst. Didn't help that TAMU's scheme features mostly quick passes and getting the ball out of Manziel's hand quick, or letting him run and create something. Mingos hands are heavier than i thought, shoots out real well.

The more i watch Joeckel i dont think he's that elite prospect. I think he can be a solid LT in the NFL though. He's got a very high floor as a LT though, very solid technique wise, good enough athleticism, i'm not sure if he's got enough pure strength to be a blue chipper, still, like Matthews, more of an angle blocker rather than a power guy.
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  #47  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:39 AM
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One point yall have missed on. The effect of the rookie cap. Now that salaries aren't skyrocketing for rookies, drafting in the Top 10 is no longer a burden. It is back to what it was once before, the cream of the crop.

If we pick Top 10: Joeckel, Fisher, Jarvis Jones, Jonathan Banks, Dee Milliner. That would be my short list. I still have a lot of catching up to do with pass rushers. Haven't seen enough of FSU, TAMU, and a few others.
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  #48  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:42 AM
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I'm sold on Lotulelei if he's available, but not Hankins. Hankins has been underachieving all year and it looks like laziness to me. Whereas guys like Mingo are getting close to plays and just not sealing the deal, Hankins is pretty much quiet all around throughout most games. He rarely forces double teams because he's not making plays when he gets matched up one on one. He's playing like a really pedestrian talent right now. I know he's at least close to Star ability-wise because I've seen him flash, but his inconsistency and apparent lack of motor/drive completely turns me off to taking him in the first half of the first round. I have him 3rd for NT's behind John Jenkins.
I disagree about putting him behind Jenkins, who has the same questions, but effort is certainly a concern.

Probably wont happen, but who knows if they win the National championship, a guy that deserves to be a top ten pick is Louis Nix from ND. I'd definitely put him in the same catagorie as Star.
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  #49  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:45 AM
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One point yall have missed on. The effect of the rookie cap. Now that salaries aren't skyrocketing for rookies, drafting in the Top 10 is no longer a burden. It is back to what it was once before, the cream of the crop.

If we pick Top 10: Joeckel, Fisher, Jarvis Jones, Jonathan Banks, Dee Milliner. That would be my short list. I still have a lot of catching up to do with pass rushers. Haven't seen enough of FSU, TAMU, and a few others.
If we are picking top 10, i'd be comfortable taking Joeckel, Fisher, Mingo, Star, Milner, and Louis Nix, Bradley Roby if they come out. Jones, Werner, Hankins all on the boarder.
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  #50  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:02 PM
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I would not take Jarvis Jones in the 1st. Unless you want a 2-3 year rental who then ends his career prematurely because of his back.

He is 3rd on my board overall without a back issue. 33rd-50th with one.
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