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  #1  
Old 12-09-2012, 05:27 AM
florida SD fan florida SD fan is online now
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Default Turnovers lead to getting new QB?

Info on Leaf and Rivers I got from Jimr 1428

Leaf over 2 years with Chargers:
33 int in 21 games, 1.57 int per game.
33 int in 567 attempts. Threw an int 5.82% of every pass. 17.18 throws to 1 int.
33 int in 272 completions. 8.24 completions to 1 int

3 of those games he did not start according to nfl.com (but still played in). One game where he didn't start he had 9 completions on 14 attempts and 2 INTs.

So in 2001 we draft Drew Brees

Drew Brees
02 played all 16 games, 03 played 11 before benching
31 int in 27 games, 1.14 int per game
31 int in 882 attempts. 28.45 throws to 1 int
31 int in 525 completions 16.93 completion to 1 int
7 fumbles 3 lost in 27 games

So in 2004 we get Phillip Rivers, and BTW Brees in 2004 only had 7 int and 2 fumbles in 15 games.

Rivers over last 2 years:
35 int in 28 games, 1.25 int per game.
35 int in 1006 attempts. Int thrown 3.48% of every pass. 28.75 throws to 1 int.
35 int in 643 completions. 18.37 completions to 1 int.

So, if AJ stays will he want to draft a new QB or has he learned to build around the QB to help him.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2012, 05:36 AM
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Man, first this thread, and now this?

Sorry, no QB is going to do well behind our offensive line. The saying, "Even when he has time he screws up" doesn't hold water for me. If 1/10 times he gets a tiny bit of time, a QB would be mindscrewed.
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I'd say that's more the case with the defeatist talk in this board [speaking with your heart, not your head]. The users here sound like a bunch of kids throwing a temper tantrum. It's depressing. I think the team should go ahead and offer the Cowboys the option of playing this one in their own stadium. Why even play here? Even if the team plays perfect, this fan base will drag them down. This environment is toxic.
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:02 AM
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This thread is irrelevant, apples to oranges IMO... Sure PR is struggling now, but look at our pitiful OL... The big difference here is that PR is already an established top tier QB. Improve the OL and give him a couple more years... If he is still struggling, then you have something to worry about.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:05 AM
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Just for reference Brett Favre and Peyton Manning have had some bad streaks also

Brett Favre
2005 - 29 INTs, 7 fumbles lost
2006 - 18 INTs, 5 fumbles lost

Peyton Manning
1998 (rookie) - 28 INTs, 1 fumble
1999 - 15 INT, 3 fumble

2001 - 23 INT, 3 fumbles
2002 - 19 INT, 2 fumbles

Rivers
2011 - 20, 5
2012 - 15, 5

Last edited by Prae; 12-09-2012 at 06:09 AM..
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:17 AM
muffindonut72 muffindonut72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida SD fan View Post
Info on Leaf and Rivers I got from Jimr 1428

Leaf over 2 years with Chargers:
33 int in 21 games, 1.57 int per game.
33 int in 567 attempts. Threw an int 5.82% of every pass. 17.18 throws to 1 int.
33 int in 272 completions. 8.24 completions to 1 int

3 of those games he did not start according to nfl.com (but still played in). One game where he didn't start he had 9 completions on 14 attempts and 2 INTs.

So in 2001 we draft Drew Brees

Drew Brees
02 played all 16 games, 03 played 11 before benching
31 int in 27 games, 1.14 int per game
31 int in 882 attempts. 28.45 throws to 1 int
31 int in 525 completions 16.93 completion to 1 int
7 fumbles 3 lost in 27 games

So in 2004 we get Phillip Rivers, and BTW Brees in 2004 only had 7 int and 2 fumbles in 15 games.

Rivers over last 2 years:
35 int in 28 games, 1.25 int per game.
35 int in 1006 attempts. Int thrown 3.48% of every pass. 28.75 throws to 1 int.
35 int in 643 completions. 18.37 completions to 1 int.

So, if AJ stays will he want to draft a new QB or has he learned to build around the QB to help him.
You forgot to add in all of the rule changes that now benefit the offense. In that context, Rivers' stats look even worse.

Also what should be taken into account is how far Rivers' has regressed. Leaf was young and immature when he came into the league. He didn't have a chance to ride the pine like Rivers did.

There is no question that the offensive line needs to improve, but there is never going to be the perfect offensive line for a QB like Rivers. So people will always be able to complain that the offense line needs to be improved and Rivers isn't ever held accountable for his horrible play. Even if old Norvy boy is replaced and a new offensive guru is hired, people will still find a way to divert blame from Rivers' horrible game play. The new scheme could be blamed, the new coach could be blamed.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida SD fan View Post
Info on Leaf and Rivers I got from Jimr 1428

Leaf over 2 years with Chargers:
33 int in 21 games, 1.57 int per game.
33 int in 567 attempts. Threw an int 5.82% of every pass. 17.18 throws to 1 int.
33 int in 272 completions. 8.24 completions to 1 int

3 of those games he did not start according to nfl.com (but still played in). One game where he didn't start he had 9 completions on 14 attempts and 2 INTs.

So in 2001 we draft Drew Brees

Drew Brees
02 played all 16 games, 03 played 11 before benching
31 int in 27 games, 1.14 int per game
31 int in 882 attempts. 28.45 throws to 1 int
31 int in 525 completions 16.93 completion to 1 int
7 fumbles 3 lost in 27 games

So in 2004 we get Phillip Rivers, and BTW Brees in 2004 only had 7 int and 2 fumbles in 15 games.

Rivers over last 2 years:
35 int in 28 games, 1.25 int per game.
35 int in 1006 attempts. Int thrown 3.48% of every pass. 28.75 throws to 1 int.
35 int in 643 completions. 18.37 completions to 1 int.

So, if AJ stays will he want to draft a new QB or has he learned to build around the QB to help him.
For now I will choose #17 over anyone you listed above when comparing those stats. Our OLine has shaken Rivers completely. He is playing behind a third string line and every DC in the league can see that on film. That all should change next year and at that point Rivers can be judged, just as Norv and AJ were given that one more year to prove themselves. But then we will have a new coach and system. The fact is that they let the line fall apart around Rivers going back 4 years ago, so what should we have expected? If Rivers continues to play bad into next year, you can bet we will be looking for a young athletic quarterback in the next draft. If the right choices are not made, we are headed to the dark ages again.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimr1428 View Post
Just for reference Brett Favre and Peyton Manning have had some bad streaks also

Brett Favre
2005 - 29 INTs, 7 fumbles lost
2006 - 18 INTs, 5 fumbles lost

Peyton Manning
1998 (rookie) - 28 INTs, 1 fumble
1999 - 15 INT, 3 fumble

2001 - 23 INT, 3 fumbles
2002 - 19 INT, 2 fumbles

Rivers
2011 - 20, 5
2012 - 15, 5
Favre is the comparison I use when it comes to Rivers.

Favre, like Rivers had a three year stretch when they were arguably the best QB in the league. They both saw their careers trend downwards as they enter their early 30's due to the fact that the talent base around them had eroded.

Favre's career got back on track in 2001 when the talent started to pick up around him, hopefully for Rivers sake it doesn't take that long.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:13 PM
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Al "T.D." Bundy Al "T.D." Bundy is offline
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Since the beginning of last season, only one QB has more turnovers than Phillip Rivers, and that's Mark Sanchez (who thanks to his 5 last night, leap-frogged Phil). Josh Freeman and Ryan Fitzpatrick are also on the list.

Anyone remember when Rivers was on the same lists as Brady, Manning, and Brees?

Sorry, the o-line excuse isn't holding any water for me. The Eagles have had MORE injuries than the Chargers have had (lost 4 of 5 starters). Teams like Chicago and Green Bay have o-lines that are historically just as bad as the Chargers. Is it a factor, of course. But it's not a free pass. There have been PLENTY of picks and fumbles that are all on Rivers.

It's time people STOP making excuses for Rivers and START holding him accountable for his own play. Rivers is NOT elite anymore. FACT. People are living in denial and living in the past. Can he get back there, yes I think he can. But something has to change beyond lip service.

In my opinion, this team needs to bring in a seasoned veteran back up QB next year to push Rivers, and who the team can turn to if he continues this horrendous play. Whitehurst is NOT that guy. I mean a Volek type of player, someone who has played in the league for years, has started, and had success. Someone who if they had to plug him, would not be a deer in the headlights and would actually have a remote chance of success.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al "T.D." Bundy View Post
Since the beginning of last season, only one QB has more turnovers than Phillip Rivers, and that's Mark Sanchez (who thanks to his 5 last night, leap-frogged Phil). Josh Freeman and Ryan Fitzpatrick are also on the list.

Anyone remember when Rivers was on the same lists as Brady, Manning, and Brees?

Sorry, the o-line excuse isn't holding any water for me. The Eagles have had MORE injuries than the Chargers have had (lost 4 of 5 starters). Teams like Chicago and Green Bay have o-lines that are historically just as bad as the Chargers. Is it a factor, of course. But it's not a free pass. There have been PLENTY of picks and fumbles that are all on Rivers.

It's time people STOP making excuses for Rivers and START holding him accountable for his own play. Rivers is NOT elite anymore. FACT. People are living in denial and living in the past. Can he get back there, yes I think he can. But something has to change beyond lip service.

In my opinion, this team needs to bring in a seasoned veteran back up QB next year to push Rivers, and who the team can turn to if he continues this horrendous play. Whitehurst is NOT that guy. I mean a Volek type of player, someone who has played in the league for years, has started, and had success. Someone who if they had to plug him, would not be a deer in the headlights and would actually have a remote chance of success.
^^^^This ^^^^^^^

I'd still give Whitehurst a shot at least for the rest of this season. Rivers and Sanchez are far and away leading everyone in turnovers, and now that the Jets season is over, they have officially stated that they'll be sitting Sanchez and going with their third-stringer.

Also, if Whitehurst is that bad, I ask again -- why did we get rid of Volek? He did fine when given his chances. Someone in the Chargers FO must have thought that Whitehurst is better.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al "T.D." Bundy View Post
Since the beginning of last season, only one QB has more turnovers than Phillip Rivers, and that's Mark Sanchez (who thanks to his 5 last night, leap-frogged Phil). Josh Freeman and Ryan Fitzpatrick are also on the list.

Anyone remember when Rivers was on the same lists as Brady, Manning, and Brees?

Sorry, the o-line excuse isn't holding any water for me. The Eagles have had MORE injuries than the Chargers have had (lost 4 of 5 starters). Teams like Chicago and Green Bay have o-lines that are historically just as bad as the Chargers. Is it a factor, of course. But it's not a free pass. There have been PLENTY of picks and fumbles that are all on Rivers.

It's time people STOP making excuses for Rivers and START holding him accountable for his own play. Rivers is NOT elite anymore. FACT. People are living in denial and living in the past. Can he get back there, yes I think he can. But something has to change beyond lip service.

In my opinion, this team needs to bring in a seasoned veteran back up QB next year to push Rivers, and who the team can turn to if he continues this horrendous play. Whitehurst is NOT that guy. I mean a Volek type of player, someone who has played in the league for years, has started, and had success. Someone who if they had to plug him, would not be a deer in the headlights and would actually have a remote chance of success.
QFT.

Thank you for saying what needs to be said.
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