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  #11  
Old 12-18-2012, 07:18 PM
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So you're saying Matthews can play LT?
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JMelHo View Post
So you're saying Matthews can play LT?
He can play both. Kemp knows I am high on Matthews, as said in previous thread. But, if I can wish, I would take both him and Joeckel.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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Very good thread. I still think Joeckel is a better prospect than Jake Long or Kalil were. I think it is very safe to say, Matthews has played as well or better than Joeckel this year on numerous occasions. But Joeckel has been so consistent even going back to last year.
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:27 PM
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I just rewatched the LSU tape twice, once for each tackle.

Joeckel is nearly flawless. He allows pressure in under 5 seconds only three times. Once it was his left guard hanging him out to dry on a stunt, once was a delayed transition on a stunt, and once was a bull rush that got him too close to Manziel.

Matthews was also excellent, but definitely not better than his line mate. He gets beat for a TFL at about the 15 second mark. He also consistently shifts out too wide right off the snap, leaving himself vulnerable to an inside-out rush. Mingo gets by him inside at about 2:20, but the right guard helps out and it's a non-issue. Mingo brings pressure inside again at about the 3:00 mark. He then gets about a half step away from a sack at 3:14 and got there in less than 4 seconds. Matthews gets away with a false start at 5:35. And he also got bull rushed into Manziel on the same play that Joeckel did.

Bottom line from this game, Joeckel's issues are technical and Matthews' are physical. The few times Joeckel allowed pressure it was due to not handling stunts correctly (with one exception) and handing rushers off in time. When Matthews allowed pressure, it was usually due to not having the foot speed to consistently keep up on the outside. However, only once or twice did this present itself as him actually getting beat by speed to the outside. Most of the time the problem was his overcompensation, i.e. shifting out wide right at the snap on almost every play, leaving a gap between him and the RG. Had Mingo worked outside-in more often, Matthews may have had a long day. Perhaps the scouting report on Mingo was that he doesn't like to work inside and that's why he bumped out wide so often, but regardless it's a bad habit for the next level. And more importantly, it's a product of not having left tackle feet for fluid lateral movement like Joeckel does.

I was also encouraged to be reminded of how much better Joeckel's run blocking has gotten since 2011. He definitely had some whiffs, but he got the better of most of his assignments.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:13 PM
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Kemp, are you sure you were watching the right players?

Because I think Joeckels technique is good, but he gets abused physically far more than Matthews.

Matthews is superior to Joeckel physically. This is clearly demonstrated in how Matthews stands up to power rushers and how he blocks in the run game.

At this point in their careers, Joeckel may have a slight edge in technique over Matthews, but the latter has demonstrated superior physical ability.

And Joeckel was beaten far more in the LSU game and Alabama than Matthews. Adrian Hubbard clearly exposed Joeckel's reputation if immunity to the outside speed rush.
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1. Jason Verrett - CB - TCU
2. Marcus Smith - 34OLB - Louisville
3. DaQuan Jones - DT - Penn State
4. Dakota Dozier - OG - Furman
5. Devin Street - WR - Pittsburgh
6. Kenny Ladler - DB - Vanderbilt
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockTreatment View Post
Kemp, are you sure you were watching the right players?

Because I think Joeckels technique is good, but he gets abused physically far more than Matthews.

Matthews is superior to Joeckel physically. This is clearly demonstrated in how Matthews stands up to power rushers and how he blocks in the run game.

At this point in their careers, Joeckel may have a slight edge in technique over Matthews, but the latter has demonstrated superior physical ability.

And Joeckel was beaten far more in the LSU game and Alabama than Matthews. Adrian Hubbard clearly exposed Joeckel's reputation if immunity to the outside speed rush.
Yup... Joeckel, #76, left side. Are you sure?

We must just assess tackle play differently. Looking at your notes, I think that's the case. The problem for you is that nearly every scouting report out there agrees with what I'm seeing. Doesn't necessarily make me right or you wrong, but when I look at a player, make an assessment, and then turn around to see that most everyone else has made the same assessment, I tend to feel pretty confident about what I am seeing.

Would you say that you can't see what I pointed out? Did you not see Matthews first step always being nearly horizontal? Did you not see the gaps he was leaving vulnerable to the inside? Maybe you took issue with Joeckel typically ending up with his back closer to the QB than his counterpart. But did you realize that it was actually due to using a proper kick-step? Joeckel's first motion in reaction to outside rushes was a kickstep that gave him depth. That movement might have landed him marginally closer to Manziel than Matthews, but it also left him squared up to Montgomery and capable of moving with the rusher regardless of whether he moved inside out outside. In short, it didn't leave him vulnerable to an inside move- and he was able to pull it off because he has the foot speed to mirror a pass rusher conistently.

Matthews' lateral kick-step (if I can coin that term) didn't result in any negative plays because the few times Mingo was smart enough to take him back inside, he got help from the guard. But that's the point- he needed help from the guard. Had he been left on an island in protection, he would have needed to remain tighter to the line and keep up with his own foot speed rather than mainly protecting against the outside rush and counting on help inside. Had he continued that move he used so frequently without help, Mingo would have gotten by his inside should because he wasn't squared up.

Most scouts hailed the LSU and Alabama contests as statement games for Joeckel, and I have to agree. He faced the more productive members of the LSU and Alabama defenses in regards to his counterpart and looked the better player in blocking them.

You know I never expect anyone to just buy what the media says. But this is why I feel the way I do about the two prospects.
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:31 PM
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I'm about to catch the SDSU/BYU bowl game (actually at the stadium now) so I can't review the clips. Ill respond later!

Looking forward to this game!
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1. Jason Verrett - CB - TCU
2. Marcus Smith - 34OLB - Louisville
3. DaQuan Jones - DT - Penn State
4. Dakota Dozier - OG - Furman
5. Devin Street - WR - Pittsburgh
6. Kenny Ladler - DB - Vanderbilt
7. Spencer Shuey - 34ILB - Clemson

Last edited by ShockTreatment; 12-20-2012 at 04:33 PM..
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockTreatment View Post
I'm about to catch the SDSU/BYU bowl game (actually at the stadium now) so I can't review the clips. Ill respond later!

Looking forward to this game!
I hear that. The holidays are really going to cut in to my football time. Probably for the best.

Enjoy the game.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockTreatment View Post
I'm about to catch the SDSU/BYU bowl game (actually at the stadium now) so I can't review the clips. Ill respond later!

Looking forward to this game!
Lucky! Tell me how Ansah is live.
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3. Allen Robinson - WR
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5. Zach Kerr - NT
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7. Aaron Colvin - CB
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nEoQuIcKsiLvEr View Post
I'd love to get Jake. But I wouldn't want him moved from RT, and you don't really spend a first round pick on a RT. Yeah he has the pedigree and people believe he has the skillset for LT but that's a big transition going into the NFL. I would like to know who would be coaching him into his transition as well.
I might as well spill some rotten apples here. If Jake is a better RT than Joeckel is at LT. I would say pick him. We are in an era today where it is all about creating mismatches - the best pass rusher doesn't always line up to beat the LT every single play. It ruins the game just as much imo to have a bad RT as it does with a bad LT. Pick the best player at either tackle position and I think it is bullcr.. that a RT in this day and era isn't worth as much as a LT. I know the story of Theismann and him getting gazonked by LT who beat his LT. But RTs deal with same amount of pressure and blitzes almost every game now.

Check out the video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos...-line-position

And let me know what you think..
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