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  #81  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:39 PM
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Mark Sanchez? Blaine Gabbert? How long did Vernon Gholston last? What about Sergio Kindle (2nd round pick on practice squad for Ravens)? There are definitely those that people quickly realize are busts.. And teams are willing to part ways with them in their rookie contract. No, I'm not saying cut ties with Mouton yet but hey... He has been a bust thus far and his time is running thin. Believe that. He needs to get healthy and contributing quick (as in next year).
You named 4 players. Sanchez is in his 4th season, it is fair to judge him. Gabbert is in his second year, has played in 25 games. Still a little early IMO, and I think JAX will give him another year. Jets cut Gholston after his 3rd year. You found one guy in Kindle. I said most, not all. Most. I also said to hold off judgement until the 3rd or 4th year. You found two guys below that mark, and one of them is still on the roster as the #1 or #2 QB(that's debatable) .

Mouton is in his 2nd year and has ONLY played in 3 games. He fits the "Hold off Judgement" Group, not the "we know what we have" group.
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  #82  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:41 PM
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The players you mentioned all proved they sucked. Kindle suffered a traumatic injury.... Gholston sucked.... Mouton hasn't even gotten a chance...
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  #83  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:57 PM
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Old to the media maybe. Not to the NFL. We disagree, plain and simple.

NFL teams aren't cutting rookies before the end of their rookie deal. Teams are waiting. At the very least, this stands true for most draft picks selected in the first four rounds.

Just my opinion, but the what can you do for me now sentiment is one of the biggest crocks of hogwash the media has cooked about the draft. Sure it applies to coaches and GMs, even some aging superstars, but it doesn't apply to players on their rookie contract.
Sure I understand where you're coming from. But for me, players who are drafted in the early rounds (1-3), in a need position, not a BPA, not a depth pick trying to learn behind a superstar but a need position. He must show up and play.

Let's say we use our first round pick this year on a OT are we supposed to wait 3-4 years down the road for him to develop before he goes into the starting lineup? No, he's going to be thrown to the wolves and starting because it was a need position. He was drafted in the early rounds and he's supposed to be as close as NFL ready as possible.

The what can you do for me now sentiment does apply to players on rookie contracts. Here's some players who were gotten rid of from the teams who drafted them in 1-3 years time during their rookie contracts Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Aaron Curry, Aaron Maybin, Willis McGahee, Cedric Benson, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. There's a long list.

If we disagree about this then so be it. Let's just say, we both want what's best for the chargers
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  #84  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:11 AM
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Sure I understand where you're coming from. But for me, players who are drafted in the early rounds (1-3), in a need position, not a BPA, not a depth pick trying to learn behind a superstar but a need position. He must show up and play.
Fair point. I think you are still being impatient. Mouton was sidelined his first year. Consider it a redshirt. Not a whole lot of guys rebound like Butler did. This year, Mouton had issues with his hip, not the same injury that sidelined him his rookie season. He is healthy now, and then he got stuck behind Spikes as the coaching staff didn't want him to play any Will, only Mike. So while I understand the impatience, Mouton deserves more time.
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Let's say we use our first round pick this year on a OT are we supposed to wait 3-4 years down the road for him to develop before he goes into the starting lineup? No, he's going to be thrown to the wolves and starting because it was a need position. He was drafted in the early rounds and he's supposed to be as close as NFL ready as possible.
Rookie OT's don't fare well. So if he doesn't fare well his first two years, does that mean we should give up on him? After two years, Jake Long looked like an All Pro, Eugene Monroe looked like a bust. Now Monroe looks like a Top 10 LT, and Long looks like he might not even be resigned by the team that took him in the Top 5.
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The what can you do for me now sentiment does apply to players on rookie contracts. Here's some players who were gotten rid of from the teams who drafted them in 1-3 years time during their rookie contracts Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Aaron Curry, Aaron Maybin, Willis McGahee, Cedric Benson, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. There's a long list.
The list for waiting 3-4 years is much longer. If you really need some proof of that, I will do the work.
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  #85  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:40 AM
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I get what you are saying now.. I thought you said they wait till every player's rookie contract runs out before determining. I'm just saying.. There is a reason Mouton is buried on the depth chart and the players I listed were guys who were drafted in the first 3 rounds mostly and the Chargers drafted Mouton that high to do similar things to what all those guys have done which is come in and make an impact of some sort. I get with Spikes in there he might not be expected to start but at least be contributing more than he is. They mentioned Bird and Guyton were already getting more reps than him. What screams that there is worry in the front office is they felt the need to go sign Guyton instead of letting Mouton work is way in. Idk.. Just all seems odd to me. I'm not saying give up at all.. Just saying I'm worried about the likelihood of him being a bust.
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  #86  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:19 AM
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I get what you are saying now.. I thought you said they wait till every player's rookie contract runs out before determining. I'm just saying.. There is a reason Mouton is buried on the depth chart and the players I listed were guys who were drafted in the first 3 rounds mostly and the Chargers drafted Mouton that high to do similar things to what all those guys have done which is come in and make an impact of some sort. I get with Spikes in there he might not be expected to start but at least be contributing more than he is. They mentioned Bird and Guyton were already getting more reps than him. What screams that there is worry in the front office is they felt the need to go sign Guyton instead of letting Mouton work is way in. Idk.. Just all seems odd to me. I'm not saying give up at all.. Just saying I'm worried about the likelihood of him being a bust.
The reason I mentioned rookie contracts, is because most rookie contracts are 4-5 years. And the manta that I'm talking about it waiting 3-4 years to see what you have. A lot of teams will just let the contract run out if its a 4 year deal and the player has been oft injured/not shown much in first 3 years.

Bird and Guyton were getting reps at WILB though. The Chargers know Butler is their WILB. They don't want to give Mouton reps there, because he isn't ever going to be the WILB of the future. The plan is Mouton to be the SILB of the future. So they decided to keep Mouton behind Spikes, and give the WILB reps to backups. It's nothing against Mouton, it doesn't mean they like Bird or Guyton more at this point. They just want Mouton to keep learning from Spikes instead of trying to learn a 2nd position where he has no future at.
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  #87  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:06 AM
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The reason I mentioned rookie contracts, is because most rookie contracts are 4-5 years. And the manta that I'm talking about it waiting 3-4 years to see what you have. A lot of teams will just let the contract run out if its a 4 year deal and the player has been oft injured/not shown much in first 3 years.

Bird and Guyton were getting reps at WILB though. The Chargers know Butler is their WILB. They don't want to give Mouton reps there, because he isn't ever going to be the WILB of the future. The plan is Mouton to be the SILB of the future. So they decided to keep Mouton behind Spikes, and give the WILB reps to backups. It's nothing against Mouton, it doesn't mean they like Bird or Guyton more at this point. They just want Mouton to keep learning from Spikes instead of trying to learn a 2nd position where he has no future at.
Hasn't Spikes been hurt a little too? Might be wrong. Also, with there no hopes for playoffs I wonder if they will see what they have in Mouton. If they don't, bad news bears.
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  #88  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:59 AM
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The reason I mentioned rookie contracts, is because most rookie contracts are 4-5 years. And the manta that I'm talking about it waiting 3-4 years to see what you have. A lot of teams will just let the contract run out if its a 4 year deal and the player has been oft injured/not shown much in first 3 years.

Bird and Guyton were getting reps at WILB though. The Chargers know Butler is their WILB. They don't want to give Mouton reps there, because he isn't ever going to be the WILB of the future. The plan is Mouton to be the SILB of the future. So they decided to keep Mouton behind Spikes, and give the WILB reps to backups. It's nothing against Mouton, it doesn't mean they like Bird or Guyton more at this point. They just want Mouton to keep learning from Spikes instead of trying to learn a 2nd position where he has no future at.
Saw an interesting mailbag question for Gehlken the other day that doesn't sound so positive on Mouton:

Quote:
You won't see Jonas Mouton start on Sunday just so the Chargers can get a look at him during a game. Even with Takeo Spikes missing days of practice. Mouton hasn't taken a rep this week with the ones. If you're reading into that as a tell of where the coaching staff thinks Mouton is in his development, you should. Brandon Taylor is a different story. He's closer. It's more realistic he could be a starter in 2013.
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  #89  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:05 PM
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Hasn't Spikes been hurt a little too? Might be wrong. Also, with there no hopes for playoffs I wonder if they will see what they have in Mouton. If they don't, bad news bears.
Spikes has been dinged up as of late.

Re: The Stig, Interesting. I can't pretend to know more than the Chargers. That would be cause for concern. You still keep Mouton another year, and you don't call him a bust yet IMO, but if you're concerned he might bust, than I'd say that is more than fair.
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  #90  
Old 12-21-2012, 01:48 PM
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Spikes has been dinged up as of late.

Re: The Stig, Interesting. I can't pretend to know more than the Chargers. That would be cause for concern. You still keep Mouton another year, and you don't call him a bust yet IMO, but if you're concerned he might bust, than I'd say that is more than fair.
It's a little upsetting considering, like I have mentioned before, that the Chargers had the entire 2011 class of linebackers to choose from.

And if they wanted a SILB, why wouldn't they have wanted to go for a Kelvin Sheppard or Mason Foster? Or hell, Akeem Dent.
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