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  #31  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:56 AM
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Okay, Kemp, I found the clause in the new CBA that explains this June 1 carryover for cap purposes on players cut, waived, etc. Basically it goes like this:

Whenever you cut a player, the pro-rated balance of his remaining guaranteed money becomes due. The carryover provision is if you designate him as a June 1 cut you can spread the balance over two seasons, and that works like this. The amount he would count against you cap this year remains the same. The next year you would then be responsible for applying any remaining amounts of his guarantee to next year's cap.

So, I'll use Gaither's contract as an example here to show how this works.

Gaither's contract with the Chargers is for 4 years with a total value of $24,600,000. He has an $8,000,000. signing bonus and a total guarantee of $13,500,000., which includes the signing bonus.

In this year his salary was $1,000,000. and there was a $2,000,000. prorated allotment of his signing bonus ($8,000,000./4 years = $2,000,000. amortized yearly), along with a misc. cap deduction (perhaps a loan) of $375,000. for a total cap hit in 2012 of $2,625,000. I'm not sure if the 375,000 counts as being paid or not, so I'm going to assume not and just use the $2,625,000. we were charged as his cap hit that I know he got towards the final amount we owe him.

In 2013, Gaither's salary increases to $4,5000,000., and combined with the prorated signing bonus amount of $2,000,000. that equals a cap hit for 2013 of 6,500,000.

If we cut him, we owe him the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $13,500,000. We have paid him, using the cap hit of 2012, $2,625,000. Leaving a balance of $10,875,000. of his guarantee that we need to cover for the salary cap.

We now have two choices. We can accelerate the entire amount into this year's team total towards meeting the salary cap of the CBA, or to create a little more room we can do it this way.

2013 - $6,500,000. - This is what his cap hit would be this year even if he's on the team.
2014 - $4,375,000. - This is the difference between the $10,875,000. that we owe him for cap purposes, vs. what we've paid in 2012 and 2013.

After 2014, we would be free and clear of any contractual responsibilities for Gaither's contract.

So, by designating Gaither as a June 1 cut, it would give us an extra 4.375 million to work with this year, vs. accelerating the entire 10.875 million into the current year.

Hope this helps.
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2012, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
Okay, Kemp, I found the clause in the new CBA that explains this June 1 carryover for cap purposes on players cut, waived, etc. Basically it goes like this:

Whenever you cut a player, the pro-rated balance of his remaining guaranteed money becomes due. The carryover provision is if you designate him as a June 1 cut you can spread the balance over two seasons, and that works like this. The amount he would count against you cap this year remains the same. The next year you would then be responsible for applying any remaining amounts of his guarantee to next year's cap.

So, I'll use Gaither's contract as an example here to show how this works.

Gaither's contract with the Chargers is for 4 years with a total value of $24,600,000. He has an $8,000,000. signing bonus and a total guarantee of $13,500,000., which includes the signing bonus.

In this year his salary was $1,000,000. and there was a $2,000,000. prorated allotment of his signing bonus ($8,000,000./4 years = $2,000,000. amortized yearly), along with a misc. cap deduction (perhaps a loan) of $375,000. for a total cap hit in 2012 of $2,625,000. I'm not sure if the 375,000 counts as being paid or not, so I'm going to assume not and just use the $2,625,000. we were charged as his cap hit that I know he got towards the final amount we owe him.

In 2013, Gaither's salary increases to $4,5000,000., and combined with the prorated signing bonus amount of $2,000,000. that equals a cap hit for 2013 of 6,500,000.

If we cut him, we owe him the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $13,500,000. We have paid him, using the cap hit of 2012, $2,625,000. Leaving a balance of $10,875,000. of his guarantee that we need to cover for the salary cap.

We now have two choices. We can accelerate the entire amount into this year's team total towards meeting the salary cap of the CBA, or to create a little more room we can do it this way.

2013 - $6,500,000. - This is what his cap hit would be this year even if he's on the team.
2014 - $4,375,000. - This is the difference between the $10,875,000. that we owe him for cap purposes, vs. what we've paid in 2012 and 2013.

After 2014, we would be free and clear of any contractual responsibilities for Gaither's contract.

So, by designating Gaither as a June 1 cut, it would give us an extra 4.375 million to work with this year, vs. accelerating the entire 10.875 million into the current year.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Welsh, it does. I think we're going to have to just eat that money... no one is trading for the guy and if things are as bad as they've sounded then they can't keep him around. What a mess.
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:07 AM
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Max starx, Phil loadholt, jake long, or Gosder Chewy would be nice free agent additions if fisher is unavailable. Anyone of these guys with chance warmack would make me happy. If Barrett Jones(c and og) is available in the 2nd......a fan can wish!
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
.....

If we cut him, we owe him the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is $13,500,000. We have paid him, using the cap hit of 2012, $2,625,000. Leaving a balance of $10,875,000. of his guarantee that we need to cover for the salary cap.

We now have two choices. We can accelerate the entire amount into this year's team total towards meeting the salary cap of the CBA, or to create a little more room we can do it this way.

2013 - $6,500,000. - This is what his cap hit would be this year even if he's on the team.
2014 - $4,375,000. - This is the difference between the $10,875,000. that we owe him for cap purposes, vs. what we've paid in 2012 and 2013.

After 2014, we would be free and clear of any contractual responsibilities for Gaither's contract.

So, by designating Gaither as a June 1 cut, it would give us an extra 4.375 million to work with this year, vs. accelerating the entire 10.875 million into the current year.

Hope this helps.
I think your premise is correct, but a few details are not.

Acee has said that Gaither's 2014 base salary is NOT guaranteed. In agent speak, it was virtually "guaranteed" because teams rarely cut a large signing bonus player after one season.

Therefore, the $4.5 mill 2014 base salary would need to be removed from discussion if he's cut this offseason.


Jared Gaither placed on injured reserve
Quote:
Posted by Josh Alper on November 23, 2012, 3:28 PM EST

Chargers tackle Jared Gaither’s injury-plagued 2012 season has come to an end.

The Chargers announced Friday that Gaither has been placed on injured reserve, ending a year that barely started for the guy they expected to be their left tackle this season. Gaither battled a back injury in the summer and missed the first three games of the season. A groin injury has kept him out for three of the last five games and has now spelled the end of his year.

Undrafted rookie Mike Harris will likely remain at left tackle with Gaither officially out of the lineup the rest of the way. That’s not great news for the Chargers offense as Harris has struggled to keep pass rushers out of the backfield all year. That’s resulted in a lot of pocket discomfort for Philip Rivers and lackluster play when San Diego’s had the ball.

Gaither signed a four-year deal with the Chargers before the season that paid him $9 million for this season between salary and a signing bonus. That’s $2.25 million per game played and half the $4.5 million he’ll make next season. That money accounts for all the guarantees made to Gaither, so he’ll likely be back in 2013 but his injury history requires the Chargers to have a better backup plan in place.

Gaither needs to get on field soon - UT - Acee - Sep 20, 2012

Quote:
His unquestioned talent is why the Chargers signed him to a four-year, $24.5 million contract in the offseason to play one of the most important positions on the field.

The guarantee on that contract has been reported at $13.5 million because that is the payout over the first two years. The truly guaranteed money is $9 million, an $8 million signing bonus and $1 million base salary for 2012.

Of the bonus, $3 million is deferred to March 2013. The Chargers owe him that money no matter what. So far, the Chargers have paid Gaither $5.18 million.

Even if they were to cut Gaither, they ostensibly have no recourse but to pay him the rest of the $1 million he’s owed this season and the $3 million in March. However, they could seek to file a grievance with the management council if they believe they have ample evidence his injury should not have kept him off the field.
Jared Gaither can't return to Chargers - UT - Acee - Jan 5, 2013
Quote:
.....

The super-talented behemoth of a man played five virtually flawless games for the Chargers in 2011 to earn a contract with $9 million guaranteed. The Chargers knew signing him was a risk, given his history of injuries and rumblings by his former employers that he was lazy and even a faker. But Gaither was the only starting left tackle available in free agency.

Gaither ended up playing parts of four games. Since that’s all he will play, he ended up costing the Chargers $2.25 million per game he was active. The charge was $36,144 per snap played and the bargain price of $37,974 per snap in which he was not responsible for Philip Rivers being hit, hurried or sacked.

Still, it is better to waste $9 million already committed and absorb the $6 million cap hit by releasing Gaither than risk owing him $4.5 million if he’s on the roster at the start of the 2013 season.

Asked if Gaither could ever return and be accepted by teammates, safety Eric Weddle was as gracious as he could be: “He could. It would take a lot of work to earn back the respect. And that’s not going to happen.”



Quote:
UTKevinAcee ‏@UTKevinAcee
@jcortizmd The $13.5 million was "virtually" guaranteed. Usually, a player who made $9 mil in 1st yr wouldn't be cut b4 2nd yr.



10h Shamrock ‏@Shamrock_Dan
@UTKevinAcee Do you have access to the actual contract? The query still stands. Is the 2013 base salary guaranteed or not?


8h UTKevinAcee ‏@UTKevinAcee
@Shamrock_Dan Let me answer it for you as clearly as I can: The 2013 salary is not guaranteed.


now Shamrock ‏@Shamrock_Dan
@UTKevinAcee Thank you.
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:51 AM
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Here's a list of 33 players who could be on the street in 2013.

Fill your plate up! Have seconds, there's plenty!


Steven Jackson - RB - St. Louis
Brandon Jacobs - RB - San Francisco
LeGarrette Blount - RB - Tampa Bay


Cliff Avril - DE - Detroit

Gregg Jennings - WR - Green Bay



Dwayne Bowe - WR - Kansas City

Knowshon Moreno - RB - Denver

Josh Cribbs - WR/KR - Cleveland

Reggie Bush - RB - Miami
I'd really like any of these players.
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
I think your premise is correct, but a few details are not.

Acee has said that Gaither's 2014 base salary is NOT guaranteed. In agent speak, it was virtually "guaranteed" because teams rarely cut a large signing bonus player after one season.

Therefore, the $4.5 mill 2014 base salary would need to be removed from discussion if he's cut this offseason.


Jared Gaither placed on injured reserve



Gaither needs to get on field soon - UT - Acee - Sep 20, 2012



Jared Gaither can't return to Chargers - UT - Acee - Jan 5, 2013
The bottom line is he is, for cap purposes, owed a total of $13.5 million. Now, you do the math and tell me how you can get around that total, based on what he's been already counted against the cap. I believe I have a better handle on the cap in this situation than Acee.
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
The bottom line is he is, for cap purposes, owed a total of $13.5 million. Now, you do the math and tell me how you can get around that total, based on what he's been already counted against the cap. I believe I have a better handle on the cap in this situation than Acee.
No. It's $9 million truly guaranteed.

The 2013 base salary is NOT guaranteed, but was "virtually guaranteed" solely in agent speak.

I'm not a big fan of Acee .... not at all ....lol .... but I do believe he is right on this one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:33 AM
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I actually should rephrase that somewhat, Shamrock. His guarantee is $13.5 million. Deduct the monies we've already paid him last year, towards the cap, and then follow my formula and that is how my answer is derived. I saw Acee's report, but the fact is there is a GUARANTEE of that 13.5 million, whether this year's salary is guaranteed or not has no bearing on the matter, other than how you divvy up his payments to clear him from the cap. You can do it all at once, this year, or divide it into two payments, and IF you do that, you MUST use his negotiated salary and prorated bonus for this year, in this cap year, and the rest comes due next year.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
No. It's $9 million truly guaranteed.

The 2013 base salary is NOT guaranteed, but was "virtually guaranteed" solely in agent speak.

I'm not a big fan of Acee .... not at all ....lol .... but I do believe he is right on this one.
You're wrong. The "agent speak" you talk of, or Acee, is that he's already been paid around 9 million. The signing bonus was paid UP FRONT, then for cap purposes prorated over the 4 year term of the contract at 2 million per year. There is simply no way to get out of the 13.5 million guarantee part when you talk about the cap, and it MUST ALL be accounted for.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
I actually should rephrase that somewhat, Shamrock. His guarantee is $13.5 million. Deduct the monies we've already paid him last year, towards the cap, and then follow my formula and that is how my answer is derived. I saw Acee's report, but the fact is there is a GUARANTEE of that 13.5 million, whether this year's salary is guaranteed or not has no bearing on the matter, other than how you divvy up his payments to clear him from the cap. You can do it all at once, this year, or divide it into two payments, and IF you do that, you MUST use his negotiated salary and prorated bonus for this year, in this cap year, and the rest comes due next year.
Honestly, I think the hardest thing for us amateur capologists is to learn that "guaranteed" doesn't REALLY mean "guaranteed."

A few years ago, when Drayton Florence first signed away from SD to the Jaguars, he had a very high "guaranteed" deal reported. I thought it was inflated, and when he only last two years in JAX, and we looked back on how much REAL money he was paid, it didn't add up to the reported "guaranteed" money. I wish I had saved those links to make it an example here, and I really don't want to dig that long .... lol ...

All I am saying is that Gaither's initial reported guarantees aren't really guaranteed. The second year (2013) base salary is the inflated portion of the guarantee, at least according to Acee. Yes, I would like some independent confirmation of that (I really should try to call Kirwan on Sirius - as he has access to the actual contracts for all NFL players).

When Acee makes statements about what the Chargers will do - ie, a few years ago regarding cutting Darren Sproles, I think he's talking out his backside. When Acee emphatically tells me directly that Gaither's 2013 base salary is NOT guaranteed, I do tend to believe him.
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