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  #11  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:22 AM
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Kemp17 Kemp17 is online now
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Werner is slow and lacks power?

Well, everyone's entitled, but you just disagreed with every report I've ever read on him as well as every game I've ever watched of his. He has the best first step in this class for my money, and very heavy hands that he uses violently.
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1. J. Verrett, CB, TCU
2. D. Adams, WR, Fr. State
3. D. Jones, DL, Penn State
4. J. Gayle, OLB, Va. Tech
5. J. Urschel, C, Penn State
6. J. Brown, WR, Pitt. State
7. R. Groy, G, Wisconsin

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  #12  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
Werner is slow and lacks power?

Well, everyone's entitled, but you just disagreed with every report I've ever read on him as well as every game I've ever watched of his. He has the best first step in this class for my money, and very heavy hands that he uses violently.
Agreed. He clowned N. Ill. in the bowl game, but then again, it was N. Ill.
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
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My first round Cluster:
1. Luke Joeckel
2. Eric Fisher
3. Bjoern Werner
4. Star Lotulelie
5. Barkevious Mingo
6. Jonathan Banks
7. Dee Milliner
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1. Kyle Fuller _-CB-_ Va Tech
2. Marcus Smith _-34OLB-_ Louisville
3.
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4. Marcus Martin _-C-_ USC
5. Josh Huff _-WR-_ Oregon
6. Deandre Coleman _-34DE-_ Cal

7. Jemea Thomas _-CB-_ GT
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
So you're saying that you'd take my top three first, but you're just assuming they'll all be gone?
Yeah, I think those three are easily in the top 5.
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1. L. Nix, NT, Notre Dame
2. P. Gaines, CB, Rice
3. J. Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin
4. B. Thomas, OG, Clemson
5. D. Coleman, DT, California
6. J. Wilder Jr, RB, Florida
7. C. Lucas, OT, Kansas St
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2013, 03:00 PM
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1. Luke Joeckle
2. Eric Fisher
3. Chance Warmack
4. Bjoern Werner
5. Damontre Moore
6. Jarvis Jones
7. Dee Milliner
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1. Jason Verrett - CB
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3. Bruce Ellington - WR
4. Dakota Dozier - OG
5. Justin Ellis - NT
6. Aaron Colvin - CB
7. James Wilder - RB
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  #16  
Old 01-10-2013, 03:37 PM
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I'm still smarting from winning those meaningless games.

We need a tackle so bad -- do you think we would need to trade up to get Fisher? If so, would you?
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Last edited by LongTimeOCBolts; 01-10-2013 at 03:47 PM..
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2013, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
Werner is slow and lacks power?

Well, everyone's entitled, but you just disagreed with every report I've ever read on him as well as every game I've ever watched of his. He has the best first step in this class for my money, and very heavy hands that he uses violently.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but i just wanted to them know that their wrong, and they should be spited for it... ahhaha

But seriously, Werner is not slow, and is one of the better DE's vs the Run in this class.

I still dont understand the Demontre Moore hype...He's not explosive, he'll rarely if ever get the edge vs. LT's, he doesn't turn the corner, he's a limited athlete (and by limited, i mean that he's a Shaun Phillips type athlete, never going to be elite, because of the limited athleticism), he's a hustle guy, who gets sacks off his motor and technique, and those guys belong in the borderline 1st round, 2nd round, not in the top 10. You saw it with Upshaw, Mercilus last year (and he's not as big as upshaw, and not as athletic as Mercilus), he belongs in that range.

Heres my big board (cutting out BPA and guys we have no shot at, Werner, Joeckel, Lotulelei, cant think of anyone else)

1st: Eric Fisher (We need an LT in the worst kind of way, but at this point, anything is an improvement, if we dont get Fisher here, A guy like Pugh/Thomas/Johnson is completely fine with me, Aboushi is a nono for me, as he is a project and wont be able to start right away IMO)

2nd: Chance Warmack (If we miss on Fisher, all the top OT talent even remotely worth this pick is gone. Warmack is instant run game, many scouts have him as the #1 overall player in this draft class, kid is a beast. He's a ready made, mauling OG who will be more than solid in pass pro. He's the best OG to come out in years, i'm not going to mention since...(add name here), since he's the best OG i've ever seen play (in college). He's be amazing for our run game.)

3rd: Dion Jordan (I'm hesitant between Mingo, and maybe even Jones here (see the Jones section for the back issue thing), but i dont see a big chance Warmack is gone (wow that wasn't even planned...lol). Dion Jordan is one of this near elite class of pass rushers, who can be a true #1 pass rusher. Watching him, when he does truly rush the passer in college, he looks insanely similar to Jason Taylor in play style. Similar types of athletes, those crazy heavy hands to give a shock, that same slapdown move (i dont know what to call it, play at :51 in the video below), incredible ability to bend the edge and close with great speed, and is the same sort of super intense player that will bring energy to a team. I'm obviously not going to say that he's going to have the same success, but lots of similarities are there. And on top of that, his ability to move around, added to Ingram's ability, gives us insane versatility to our D. Great compliment to what we have on this D already)


4th: Keke Mingo (More of just an athlete than Jordan, doens't have the motor that Jordan does, but very few players have that kind of motor. He's weaker vs the run, but he is MUCH more explosive off the line, while still being a similar athlete, but much rawer and hasn't put up the stats he should as a pass rusher, while he rushes much more than Dion)

5th: Jarvis Jones (Alright, i'm very nervous about the Spinal Stenosis, but at the same time, almost all the player who are playing with this condition, have played at least some time at an elite level. People always bring up McNeil who played 1-2 years of elite football and declined sharply, Rob Gronkowski is playing with it currently, and Chris Samuel played a full 9 year career at an elite level before it was hit and agrivated. We do know that it will shorten his career, but at some point, its a risk worth taking. We're on the boarderline of when it is a risk. We know he's an elite player/pass rusher, and without this condition, he would be a borderline top 5 pick. It seems that all these guys who have it, that have been good players, have played at an elite level for at least a year or two, up to a full 10 year career. You just have to take it on a case by case basis, so we cant know, but even if it gives us a guy who will be an elite player/pass rusher for a few years, i'd be alright with it. It does scare me, but the prospect of getting a top 5 prospect with the 11th pick is very tempting)

6th: Dee Miliner (I'm of the thought that if we're picking this high, we need an impact player. And i dont think Miliner is that. I think he's one of those guys who will always be solid, but will never be a good/great #1 corner. Im dissapointed that Roby isn't coming out because i feel he was the only CB worth the pick we're at for what we need. I'm also of the position that we dont need another corner. I think Wright deserves a shot, as he played really well in the limited chances he got. Cason actually played really well last year, and despite the negative stigma around him, i feel like quite a few of the big plays he gave up this year, had something to do with Bigby's complete disregard for anything having to do with coverage duties. I'd be interested to see Jammer brought back as a SS, as i feel like this is actually the time to do it, movement skills aren't great anymore, but when you dont need to be locked up in man a whole ton, its not as much of an issue, would be a deadly deep half SS)

7: John Hankins
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2013, 04:49 PM
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I too question Moore's explosion, and like Werner a lot.

But I also question Dion Jordan's ability to rush the passer, and think to this day that Decastro was the better prospect coming out. 2/4 ain't bad.
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Updated Mock v4.2.21
----------------------------------------------------
1. Kyle Fuller _-CB-_ Va Tech
2. Marcus Smith _-34OLB-_ Louisville
3.
Jon Halapio _-OG-_ Florida
4. Marcus Martin _-C-_ USC
5. Josh Huff _-WR-_ Oregon
6. Deandre Coleman _-34DE-_ Cal

7. Jemea Thomas _-CB-_ GT
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:52 PM
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Really, all i care about is that miami doesn't trade up, and arizona takes a qb in the draft. In that scenario, we get fisher and we're set at the LT position for years to come. If AZ takes fisher, to me, the choice is still pretty clear-milliner or banks (assuming the top tier pass rushers are all gone ie werner moore jones etc.) . The other option would be warmack, but 11 is too high for a guard, so a trade back would be optimal if possible. I'm not a mingo fan, as he seems like a Bruce Irvin 2.0-aka a 1 trick pony who can rush the passer (if mingo can even do that, considering his production this year) and does nothing else. That type of player isn't the type of olb I would take early in the first round, but I know many are high on him, but IMO we shouldn't consider taking him at 11.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time4aRing View Post
I too question Moore's explosion, and like Werner a lot.

But I also question Dion Jordan's ability to rush the passer, and think to this day that Decastro was the better prospect coming out. 2/4 ain't bad.
The questions are fair consiering that he hasn't done a whole ton of it, but watching him, the skillset is obviously there, but also hes got some very refined aspects of his game, in terms of the ability to keep guys off of him and handwork with those long arms, is deadly, and his ability to bend the edge is second to none in this class.
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