Rivers and the West Coast Offense

[Xenos]

Originally Posted by latency

Your confused about a couple of things. The article that you mention does not talk about what is commonly refereed to as The West Coast offense. It talks about the Don Coryell offense. The term West Coast offense is a misnomer as the person that coined the term was talking about the Coryell offense which was run by the Chargers and the Los Angeles Rams, but the journalist that he was talking to thought he was talking about the offense that was developed by Bill Walsh. That is how the Walsh system got the name West Coast offense. Philip Rivers is a perfect QB for the Coryell system.He is not an ideal QB for the Walsh system because he is not mobile nor is he as accurate as you would like for the Walsh system at short passes. Thisis not to say that he could not be effective in this system just that he is not the prototype for this system.

Secondly, the Patriots do not and have not ever employed the Walsh system while Tom Brady has been their QB. I am not sure where you heard that, but that information is definitely inaccurate. The Patriots run what is called the Erhardt-Perkins offense while Bill Belichick has been their coach. The system was installed by Charile Weis and was learned by Josh McDaniels under him.

No, I am not confused about what I posted. The quote I used from that article highlights the difference between the Coryell system and Walsh's WCO system.

[LKincheloe]

Originally Posted by allan

I thought PR ran the WCO with Norm Chow at NC State.

*edit* From Wikipedia:

"Chow spent one season as the offensive coordinator at NC State, where he coached an offense quarterbacked by Philip Rivers, before accepting the position of offensive coordinator at USC. Chow helped lead the Trojans to the 2003 Associated Press National Championship, (their first national title since 1978), and the 2004 BCS National Championship. He left USC in spring 2005, after unsuccessfully interviewing for the Stanford head coaching vacancy, for a job offer to be the offensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans--his first job on the professional level. Their head coach, Jeff Fisher, graduated from USC."

Another CMB poster who watched Rivers play at NC State also said they used the WCO there. I get the feeling that the people who don't want us to use the WCO are falling into the "continuity" trap that we fell for six years ago.

[latency]

Originally Posted by Xenos

No, I am not confused about what I posted. The quote I used from that article highlights the difference between the Coryell system and Walsh's WCO system.

Reread your post and I get what you were trying to say. The fact remains though that the Walsh system works best with a mobile QB who is accurate enough throwing short passes to hit the receiver in stride. Rivers currently has neither of these attributes. Just think back to all of the times that Rivers has thrown the ball over Matthews head on a swing pass. I am not saying it would be a complete disaster, but why risk it at all. There are numerous coordinators out there that can run the Coryell system. It is a proven system that has won numerous Superbowls. You have a franchise QB that you know can run the Coryell system well that has a good five years left playing this game. The solution for this team is upgrades on the offensive line and a coach that will go for it on 4th down when the percentages say to; not a complete overhaul of the offensive philosophy.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by Xenos

So this is hypothetical since we don't know if we are even getting a west coast offense here, but someone brought it up that it wouldn't fit Rivers at all (due to the rumor of Andy Reid). My question is why?

Not just because his footwork is poor -- more importantly, his decision making is nowhere near fast enough to keep up with a WCO. He is not one of those QB's who is so far ahead of the curve that he is able to slow the game down in his head, and make quick, decisive, correct decision, then deliver the ball into tight horizontal spaces.

He will either survive in the vertical game, or not at all, imo.

[Game3524]

Originally Posted by latency

Reread your post and I get what you were trying to say. The fact remains though that the Walsh system works best with a mobile QB who is accurate enough throwing short passes to hit the receiver in stride. Rivers currently has neither of these attributes. Just think back to all of the times that Rivers has thrown the ball over Matthews head on a swing pass. I am not saying it would be a complete disaster, but why risk it at all. There are numerous coordinators out there that can run the Coryell system. It is a proven system that has won numerous Superbowls. You have a franchise QB that you know can run the Coryell system well that has a good five years left playing this game. The solution for this team is upgrades on the offensive line and a coach that will go for it on 4th down when the percentages say to; not a complete overhaul of the offensive philosophy.

This.

I think Rivers could work well in a WCO (especially in Andy Reid's variant of it, which puts more emphasis on vertical routes). But Rivers is at his best in a Coryell offense, we are better off upgrade the personnel and keeping the offensive philosophy then scrapping it.

[allan]

Originally Posted by Game3524

This.

I think Rivers could work well in a WCO (especially in Andy Reid's variant of it, which puts more emphasis on vertical routes). But Rivers is at his best in a Coryell offense, we are better off upgrade the personnel and keeping the offensive philosophy then scrapping it.

I'm sure he could run anything. These are his stats with the WCO under Norm Chow in 2000:

In 2000: The 2000 ACC Rookie of the Year, the third consecutive Wolfpack player to bring home that honor ... Also an Academic All-ACC performer, he posted a 3.083 GPA for the 2000 fall semester ... Set seven school records in his first season at NC State ... Set the school single season records for completions (237), passing attempts (441), touchdown responsibility (27) and touchdown passes (25) ... His 3,054 yards passing set the ACC record for a freshman and ranked second overall in NC State history ... The only player in school history to toss TD passes in nine straight games ... Named the ACC Rookie of the Week a league-record eight times.... ABC Sports Newcomer of the Year and Football News and Columbus Touchdown Club Freshman of the Year ... Ranked 12th nationally in total offense with 269.7 yards per game, the second-best mark in the ACC (only Heisman Trophy winner Chris Weinke had more) ... Ranked 12th nationally in passing yards (second in the ACC) and eighth in points responsible for ... Tied a school record and set an ACC freshman record for touchdown passes thrown with five against Indiana ... His 401 yards in that contest ranks sixth in school history ... Named the MVP of the 2000 Micronpc.com Bowl after throwing for 310 yards on a 24-39 passing performance.

Then in 2001 - 2003 he ran the spread offense under Noel Mazzone:

In 2003: A finalist for the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award, Johnny Unitas Award, the Hossman Trophy and for the Walter Camp Player of the Year Award ... Finished seventh in the Heisman voting ... A unanimous choice for ACC Player-of-the-Year, he was also a unanimous first-team all-conference choice and was named the ACC Offensive Player of the Year as well ... The national leader in completion percentage (.720) and passing efficiency (170.49) ... Finished the year ranked second nationally in passing yards (4,491) and total offense (353.85/game), third in pass completions (348) and completions per game (26.77), sixth in passing TDs (34) and ninth in points responsible for (17.38) ... Led the ACC in every passing and total offense category ... Set the ACC single season records for total offense (4,600), total offense per game, touchdown responsibility (37), passing yards, TD passes, completion percentage, pass completions and pass attempts ... Had thrown 124 straight passes without an interception before getting picked off the in first quarter versus UConn ... Posted the best completion percentage of his career (87%) vs. Western Carolina, he was named the ACC's Offensive Back of the Week for that game and versus Ohio State ... Also won ACC Player of the Week honors against Virginia, when he opened the game by completing his first 17 passes and ended up going 29-34 for 410 yards and four TDs ... Set a school record with 38 completions against Wake Forest, his 443 yards of total offense in that contest is the second-highest single-game mark in school history ... Closed his career with a remarkable performance against Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl, hitting 37-of-45 passes for a career-high 475 yards, five touchdowns, no interceptions and rushing for 20 yards as well, breaking school bowl game records and Tangerine Bowl records for passing yards, pass completions, TD passes, completion percentage and total offense, earning MVP honors ... Named the MVP of the 2004 Senior Bowl (Jan. 25), leading the South squad to victory with a 12-of-19 passing performance for 219 yards, no interceptions and two TDs in the first quarter plus one series of the fourth.

In 2002: Set the Wolfpack single-season record for rushing TDs by a quarterback with 10, the 10th highest total in school historyLed the nation in passing efficiency for half of the season, his current career mark of 133.79 is an NC State record ... Tied his own school record with five TD throws versus Navy, he set the record for TD responsibility with six ... Set school marks for yards per completion (30.9) and yards per attempt (20.6) versus Navy ... Named the ACC Offensive Back of the Week and the Atlanta Journal Constitution Player of the Week for his performance against New Mexico ... Named the ACC Offensive Back of the Week and the CNN/SI National Player of the Week for his performance against Navy ... A semifinalist for the Davey O'Brien Award ... Earned an "Award of Distinction" from the Columbus Touchdown Club following the season ... MVP of the Gator Bowl, he tallied 228 yards on 23-37 passing and threw for two touchdowns in that contest ... Completed 11 straight passes at one point in the first half ... Co-recipient of the Governor's Award, given to the team MVP ... A second-team All-ACC performer.

In 2001: The most prolific passer of any player in ACC history through their sophomore season, his 41 career touchdown throws was also the best for any rising junior in the history of the league ... Set the NC State single-season record with a 65.2% completion percentage, the best mark in the ACC for 2001 ... Broke his own Wolfpack single season mark for completions with 240, his 368 attempts for 2001 was the fourth-best mark ever by a Wolfpacker ... Passed for 2,586 yards in 2001, the fourth-best mark in school history (he now holds two of the top four marks) ... Completed 71% of his passes in the last five games of the regular season, gaining 1,109 yards and six touchdowns while throwing just two interceptions ... The Wolfpack posted a 4-1 record in those five games, losing only to ninth-ranked Maryland in the last minute ... Ranked 11th nationally in passing with 21.82 completions per game ... An honorable mention All-ACC performer in 2001 ... Ranked third in the ACC in passing yards in 2001 with 235.1 ... Chipped a bone in his big toe in the regular-season finale versus Ohio, his running was limited in December ... Came back to win Offensive MVP honors for the Wolfpack at the Tangerine Bowl, where he passed for 189 yards.

Just give him the right personnel around him to do the job.

[LKincheloe]

Originally Posted by allan

I'm sure he could run anything. These are his stats with the WCO under Norm Chow in 2000:

In 2000: The 2000 ACC Rookie of the Year, the third consecutive Wolfpack player to bring home that honor ... Also an Academic All-ACC performer, he posted a 3.083 GPA for the 2000 fall semester ... Set seven school records in his first season at NC State ... Set the school single season records for completions (237), passing attempts (441), touchdown responsibility (27) and touchdown passes (25) ... His 3,054 yards passing set the ACC record for a freshman and ranked second overall in NC State history ... The only player in school history to toss TD passes in nine straight games ... Named the ACC Rookie of the Week a league-record eight times.... ABC Sports Newcomer of the Year and Football News and Columbus Touchdown Club Freshman of the Year ... Ranked 12th nationally in total offense with 269.7 yards per game, the second-best mark in the ACC (only Heisman Trophy winner Chris Weinke had more) ... Ranked 12th nationally in passing yards (second in the ACC) and eighth in points responsible for ... Tied a school record and set an ACC freshman record for touchdown passes thrown with five against Indiana ... His 401 yards in that contest ranks sixth in school history ... Named the MVP of the 2000 Micronpc.com Bowl after throwing for 310 yards on a 24-39 passing performance.

Then in 2001 - 2003 he ran the spread offense under Noel Mazzone:

In 2003: A finalist for the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award, Johnny Unitas Award, the Hossman Trophy and for the Walter Camp Player of the Year Award ... Finished seventh in the Heisman voting ... A unanimous choice for ACC Player-of-the-Year, he was also a unanimous first-team all-conference choice and was named the ACC Offensive Player of the Year as well ... The national leader in completion percentage (.720) and passing efficiency (170.49) ... Finished the year ranked second nationally in passing yards (4,491) and total offense (353.85/game), third in pass completions (348) and completions per game (26.77), sixth in passing TDs (34) and ninth in points responsible for (17.38) ... Led the ACC in every passing and total offense category ... Set the ACC single season records for total offense (4,600), total offense per game, touchdown responsibility (37), passing yards, TD passes, completion percentage, pass completions and pass attempts ... Had thrown 124 straight passes without an interception before getting picked off the in first quarter versus UConn ... Posted the best completion percentage of his career (87%) vs. Western Carolina, he was named the ACC's Offensive Back of the Week for that game and versus Ohio State ... Also won ACC Player of the Week honors against Virginia, when he opened the game by completing his first 17 passes and ended up going 29-34 for 410 yards and four TDs ... Set a school record with 38 completions against Wake Forest, his 443 yards of total offense in that contest is the second-highest single-game mark in school history ... Closed his career with a remarkable performance against Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl, hitting 37-of-45 passes for a career-high 475 yards, five touchdowns, no interceptions and rushing for 20 yards as well, breaking school bowl game records and Tangerine Bowl records for passing yards, pass completions, TD passes, completion percentage and total offense, earning MVP honors ... Named the MVP of the 2004 Senior Bowl (Jan. 25), leading the South squad to victory with a 12-of-19 passing performance for 219 yards, no interceptions and two TDs in the first quarter plus one series of the fourth.

In 2002: Set the Wolfpack single-season record for rushing TDs by a quarterback with 10, the 10th highest total in school historyLed the nation in passing efficiency for half of the season, his current career mark of 133.79 is an NC State record ... Tied his own school record with five TD throws versus Navy, he set the record for TD responsibility with six ... Set school marks for yards per completion (30.9) and yards per attempt (20.6) versus Navy ... Named the ACC Offensive Back of the Week and the Atlanta Journal Constitution Player of the Week for his performance against New Mexico ... Named the ACC Offensive Back of the Week and the CNN/SI National Player of the Week for his performance against Navy ... A semifinalist for the Davey O'Brien Award ... Earned an "Award of Distinction" from the Columbus Touchdown Club following the season ... MVP of the Gator Bowl, he tallied 228 yards on 23-37 passing and threw for two touchdowns in that contest ... Completed 11 straight passes at one point in the first half ... Co-recipient of the Governor's Award, given to the team MVP ... A second-team All-ACC performer.

In 2001: The most prolific passer of any player in ACC history through their sophomore season, his 41 career touchdown throws was also the best for any rising junior in the history of the league ... Set the NC State single-season record with a 65.2% completion percentage, the best mark in the ACC for 2001 ... Broke his own Wolfpack single season mark for completions with 240, his 368 attempts for 2001 was the fourth-best mark ever by a Wolfpacker ... Passed for 2,586 yards in 2001, the fourth-best mark in school history (he now holds two of the top four marks) ... Completed 71% of his passes in the last five games of the regular season, gaining 1,109 yards and six touchdowns while throwing just two interceptions ... The Wolfpack posted a 4-1 record in those five games, losing only to ninth-ranked Maryland in the last minute ... Ranked 11th nationally in passing with 21.82 completions per game ... An honorable mention All-ACC performer in 2001 ... Ranked third in the ACC in passing yards in 2001 with 235.1 ... Chipped a bone in his big toe in the regular-season finale versus Ohio, his running was limited in December ... Came back to win Offensive MVP honors for the Wolfpack at the Tangerine Bowl, where he passed for 189 yards.

Just give him the right personnel around him to do the job.

I get the impression that facts are not getting through around here. I guess the people who actually watched PR play in the WCO at NC State just dreamed it.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by LKincheloe

I get the impression that facts are not getting through around here. I guess the people who actually watched PR play in the WCO at NC State just dreamed it.

Who did he play against at NC State, again?

Is there no difference, in your mind, between the speed of the NFL game and that of the ACC?

Didn't NC State, during his tenure, finish 5th, 4th, 4th, and 4th in the ACC?

Yes, everyone here is completely blind to the facts.

[Packwolf74]

Notre Dame, Michigan. Florida State, and I believe Ohio State.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by Packwolf74

Notre Dame, Michigan. Florida State, and I believe Ohio State.

In four years, one game vs Notre Dame, one against Ohio State -- and I think you were wrong about Michigan. Florida State only conference opponent.