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  #61  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:38 PM
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Moe, there are roughly 121 million people in this world who suffer from depression. Out of 121 million people, how many of those people suffer from depression because of concussion problems? I would be willing to bet it's less than 1%.

Junior IMO was not suffering from depression because of concussions; I think it had more to do with the fact that the man was a superstar in College, then a superstar in the NFL for 20 years. When he retired he was left with nothing but his thoughts and failing business ventures and I think it was a massive blow to him.

He wouldn't be the first athlete in any sport who suffered from depression once the bright lights were off of him.
There's manageable depression and depression related to brain trauma. They're different. You do raise a good point about Jrs post-nfl challenges. Doesn't explain Dave duerson shooting himself to death a few months earlier.

I know a guy who played linebacker for the Jets in the 90's. not a star by any means. Mainly special teams. He has to spend a lot of time in the dark because of migraines caused by some hits he took in the NFL. He's sought out numerous drs looking for treatment. Chronic pain itself becomes depressing.

I think you're underestimating the effect of the hits.
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  #62  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:43 PM
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Noone will ever know for sure why Junior did what he did, except Junior.

Unless he left some kind of journal that the family is in possession of, and haven't tipped their hand to anyone about.
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  #63  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:45 PM
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There's manageable depression and depression related to brain trauma. They're different. You do raise a good point about Jrs post-nfl challenges. Doesn't explain Dave duerson shooting himself to death a few months earlier.

I know a guy who played linebacker for the Jets in the 90's. not a star by any means. Mainly special teams. He has to spend a lot of time in the dark because of migraines caused by some hits he took in the NFL. He's sought out numerous drs looking for treatment. Chronic pain itself becomes depressing.

I think you're underestimating the effect of the hits.
Trust me Moe, I am not underestimating the blows at all. I read the stories like Jim McMahan in SI and it makes me sad to see what his life has become. I just think there are far too many people/families trying to bank off of lawsuits to the NFL. I think the Seau family is a joke for trying to sue the NFL as they have zero evidence that the NFL should be held responsible.

Seau prided himself for being a warrior who would never miss a game and now the people who raised him to be that warrior want to sue the people who employed him.
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  #64  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:54 PM
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Heck, boxers are a perfect example of what repeated blows to the head can do to a man.

Muhammad Ali has problems remembering his own name.

Early onset Alzheimer's, dementia, loss of fine motor skills, long and short term memory loss, and a whole bunch of other stuff can be directly credited to taking shots to the cranium.
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  #65  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:58 PM
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Heck, boxers are a perfect example of what repeated blows to the head can do to a man.

Muhammad Ali has problems remembering his own name.

Early onset Alzheimer's, dementia, loss of fine motor skills, long and short term memory loss, and a whole bunch of other stuff can be directly credited to taking shots to the cranium.
But is that the norm or the exception?
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  #66  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:46 PM
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Trust me Moe, I am not underestimating the blows at all. I read the stories like Jim McMahan in SI and it makes me sad to see what his life has become. I just think there are far too many people/families trying to bank off of lawsuits to the NFL. I think the Seau family is a joke for trying to sue the NFL as they have zero evidence that the NFL should be held responsible.

Seau prided himself for being a warrior who would never miss a game and now the people who raised him to be that warrior want to sue the people who employed him.
We don't really know what evidence they have do we? All we know is that a lot of guys are suffering and there are thousands of lawsuits. Not hundreds, thousands. Seau's not an outlier.

Employers don't generally care about employees unless they are forced to. If the labor movement didn't demand safer working conditions workers would have kept getting mangled in factories. Now people just sue.
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  #67  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 PM
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Employers don't generally care about employees unless they are forced to.
That is a cynical view, and not even remotely in keeping with the employers I know. I sit on several Boards -- and on every single one of them, humanitarian factors are presented by management in connection with budgetary considerations. Management often takes cuts -- or even gets fired -- to spare the guys at the lower end to the totem pole who need to feed their families.
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  #68  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:07 AM
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Reed is kind of right. Players know they are modern day gladiators. But the long term brain trauma? No player who retired three years or earlier could've been aware of this problem.
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  #69  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:42 AM
BoltBacker4Life BoltBacker4Life is offline
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We don't really know what evidence they have do we? All we know is that a lot of guys are suffering and there are thousands of lawsuits. Not hundreds, thousands. Seau's not an outlier.

Employers don't generally care about employees unless they are forced to. If the labor movement didn't demand safer working conditions workers would have kept getting mangled in factories. Now people just sue.
The question becomes…what evidence do any of these guys have? Do the thousands of guys having lawsuits have secret journals with documentation we do not know about? I am telling you this right now Moe, without documentation, none of these lawsuits mean crap.

Most of these players never wanted to come off the field. From the early days of the game where players couldn’t afford to miss games to nowadays where players don’t want to lose their job. Alex Smith is the poster child for players wanting to keep injuries to themselves. A team/league cannot be held responsible for players hiding injuries so they do not lose their job.

And I do not know if the Seau family has any evidence, but there is a TON of evidence that the NFL can present against Seau. If I am a lawyer, here is where I start:

Junior Seau led by example, former players told Trotter.
"Seau ignored pain and insisted if you could walk, you could play," Trotter writes.


Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Seau-Never-Let-On-He-Was-Hurting-Report-150800945.html#ixzz2JZ1ikLMa

The news, first reported by ABC News, comes as little surprise to some of Seau's former teammates, who say he suffered from headaches and equilibrium problems despite never being diagnosed with a concussion during his 20-year career. A specific instance occurred during training camp in 2001, when a collision with fullback Fred McCrary left a three-inch crack across the crown of McCrary's helmet.

"Me and Junior had so much pride, we didn't want to tell the other one that we were hurt," says McCrary, who played for six teams over 11 years, including four with Seau in San Diego. "We talked about the play later that night, and I said, 'Junior, my head is on fire!' He was like, 'Buddddyyyy, my head was KILLING me! But I wasn't going to let [trainer James Collins] know because he would make me sit out.' "

The collision, during a morning practice at training camp, was so violent it could be heard across the practice fields at UC San Diego, where the Chargers trained. McCrary says the effects of the hit stayed with him for months -- and added that the cumulative hits over his career sometimes force him to spend time in a dark room until the headaches subside.

"After that [hit in 2001] I remember blacking out, seeing white all the time that year," McCrary says. "I'm like, 'What the f---?!' I didn't know why it was happening. It was scary. I remember laying down that night and I said, 'I've got to call James.' My head was beating like a drum. You didn't want to come out because you're trying to keep your job, but I remember I used to hit someone and fall to my knees.

"I look back on it now and I can say that that hit was the reason why I was in that condition. But at the time, all I kept thinking was, What's wrong with my head? My wife would tell me I need to go get checked out and stop playing, but I kept saying. 'I'll be all right. I don't want to sit out, I don't want to lose my job, I'm a starter now.' All that stuff goes through your head. Any football player you ask will tell you the same thing.

"I saw Junior messed up multiple times," McCrary continues. "He would just go back to his room and say, 'Buddy, what the f--?' When we had that collision, he'd walk around and say, 'We'll be OK. We'll be OK.' People need to realize, that stuff is so real."
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  #70  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:55 AM
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Bb4L, just google NFL lawsuits for brain injury. The critical issue in the lawsuits isn't whether Seau reported his injury. It's whether the NFL knew or should have known that repeated head injuries caused degenerative brain injury and failed to act. There appears to be good evidence that they did know. It's a given that Jr and other players would downplay their injuries for cultural reasons and because of their warrior mentality. Jr is a great example of that. But did the NFL do everything it should have to minimize these risks?

Speaking of Ed Reed, there's a good chance he's gonna be suffering from some of the same things as the 4000 plaintiffs in these suits in the not too distant future. He's already reported having memory loss and sees a Dr to deal with the premature aging issues he's having. Reeds caught up in the game now and his mentality reflects that. We'll see what he says 10 years from now. That is, if he can speak.
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