OLB Situation

[sonorajim]

Originally Posted by SDfootball61

I think its really hard to get a judge on the position because we dont know what we have in almost everyone.

Spikes, JJ and Butler are the only players we have that we can really say, that we're 100% confident in what they'll be.

Spikes is a 1-2 down pure thumper in the middle that will cause problems in the run game for a Offense, a HUGE reason our D was so impressive last year, also earns his pay as the leader of the D and guy who makes all the calls pre play (Butler relays the play-call however), and i think thats a very underrated trait. JJ is very similar, vetran leader who is elite vs. the run, and can play the "power", strong side, or LE (whatever you want to call it) when we use 4-3 alignments, but doesn't really provide a good pass rush at all, needs to be replaced in that aspect. And Butler is a manchild, can do it all, chases plays down, athletic and instinctual in coverage and fills hard in run support, and calls the plays, and is the guy who Spikes will likely pass the torch to in a year (i think more and more that Spikes stays on the roster this year).

Outside of that, we aren't sure what the other guys bring to the table, or if they are going to be back. While SP got a lot of sacks last year, he wasn't really a great pass rusher and didn't get a lot of pressure. Ingram was the opposite, he applied the pressure, quite often (even when he wasn't given enough PT IMO) as a situational player, but didn't really finish a ton of plays and needs to be more consistent and play more under control after too many roughing passers (one that lead to the deletion of a Pick 6, and one that lead to the Saints comeback). Dont think he's ever going to be an elite pass rusher, but he can be a solid #2 like Phillips has been.

What we've been lacking is a guy who can come in and consistently get pressure. Despite Barnes being that guy 2 seasons ago, he either regressed, or was asked to do something different that didn't work last year.

We also need to plan for the immediate future. After this year Spikes is definitely gone, and we need a replacement for him. What Mouton brings to the table is completely unknown at this point, as he didn't see much PT last year. Bird was alright in chances given, but i wouldn't count on him, and hope he surprises people. Mouton seems like a good fit for the SILB that Spikes played if he can show up, but again, he's yet to be heard from, as he wasn't the ST's player Bird/Gachkar was, nor the coverage player Gachkar/Williams was, so there wasn't a niche on this team for him.

So this is entirely dependant on how our staff views Mouton/Bird in that SILB role and Ingram/Barnes as pass rushers.

I'm pretty sure Butler is Spikes replacement either now or next year. He will handle defensive playcalls and thump, shed, rush, play pass D. What we need is a guy next to him.

You realize Butler is a thicker dude than Spikes, right?
Spikes 6-2, 242
Butler 6-1, 248

Mouton is 6-2, 240
Bird 6-4, 250
Gachkar 6-3, 228

[showbe]

We should see what ingram can do at Olb before we move him around.

[Beerman]

Originally Posted by 401SuperCharger

Honestly i think we should seriously consider resigning Phillips he could be a great mentor along with Johnson for Ingram and we could and should move him to Rolb and have Ingram be out Lolb or even just have a 3 man rotation between the 3 and have Ingram play all 3 lb positions since hes so versitile and no im not just saying to resign Phillips because hes my favorite player he can still produce we would just need to sign him for less than hes making now

I'm sorry but Philips was awful last year. He was a complete liability in run defense and he barely created any consistent pressure from his position. He really tailed off last season and his PFF grades support that. He's one of the worst graded OLB available in FA this offseason.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...dge-defenders/

[SDfootball61]

Originally Posted by sonorajim

I'm pretty sure Butler is Spikes replacement either now or next year. He will handle defensive playcalls and thump, shed, rush, play pass D. What we need is a guy next to him.

You realize Butler is a thicker dude than Spikes, right?
Spikes 6-2, 242
Butler 6-1, 248

Mouton is 6-2, 240
Bird 6-4, 250
Gachkar 6-3, 228

Yes, but that doesn't really matter, what i'm looking at is play style. Butler right now is the guy we want to make sure is free and clear, and able to fill and make the tackle, we dont want to use him as a battering ram like we used Spikes, that would be a complete waste of his athleticism IMO. I'd much rather keep him as the WILB, and find a new thumper, whether that be Mouton/Bird or a FA/Draftee.

[biggestfan]

Originally Posted by Beerman

I'm sorry but Philips was awful last year. He was a complete liability in run defense and he barely created any consistent pressure from his position. He really tailed off last season and his PFF grades support that. He's one of the worst graded OLB available in FA this offseason.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...dge-defenders/

I'd like to see what Phillips can do again when he has a reliable guy opposite him who can get consistent pressure

[SuperBowlBolts]

Originally Posted by SDfootball61

Yes, but that doesn't really matter, what i'm looking at is play style. Butler right now is the guy we want to make sure is free and clear, and able to fill and make the tackle, we dont want to use him as a battering ram like we used Spikes, that would be a complete waste of his athleticism IMO. I'd much rather keep him as the WILB, and find a new thumper, whether that be Mouton/Bird or a FA/Draftee.

This right here. Butler makes a lot of plays in space and is pretty dang good in coverage. Just look at the play vs the Jets two years ago when he literally took the ball away from Dustin Keller. Butler could play Spike's position but I rather have him out in coverage. It seems harder to find guys who can play in space rather than ones who can play in the box vs the run.

But to Spike's credit there was some crazy stat out there where Spikes did not miss a single tackle vs the run last year and two years ago he only missed two. Ill see if I can find it and post it here.

[edit]

It will be interesting to see whether the new brass in San Diego wants to bring back linebacker Takeo Spikes for a 16th NFL season.

Spikes’ efficiency in 2012 shows it might be a good idea for the Chargers to ask him to return. According to Pro Football Focus, Spikes rarely missed a tackle. The site reports Spikes, who told U-T San Diego this month that he wants to return to San Diego, missed just two tackles last season. Both came in the passing game. Thus, Spikes was perfect in tackles in the run game.

Spikes has long been a sure tackler. The site reported that Spikes has missed just 11 tackles in the past five seasons.

Yes, Spikes is 36. But he is a technically sound tackler, and he brings such consistency on the field and leadership off it, the Chargers should welcome him back.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post...ackling-skllis

[BleedBolts]

Originally Posted by Throw Back

The linebacker situation is mess both OLB and ILB. Hopefully, Ingram is who we think he is and can provide a pass rush. The linebacker group consists of aging players on their down side (Philips, Spikes, JJ) and high draft busts (Mouton and English)

Sure Butler and hopefully Ingram are impact players but this position is a major question mark that needs to be upgraded. Using the 1st pick on another linebacker could make sense.

IMO, our D-line is one of the strengths of our Defense. With the emergence of Luiget and Reyes, we have ends to make the 3-4 work. NT is a question mark, but I do feel a rotation of Thomas and Franklin(if resigned) can work.
Now with our current group of ILBers, I think we can all agree that Butler is a stud and will be an impact player for many years to come. I was really impressed with Demarrio Williams last season and would like to see more of Butler and Williams inside. We can keep Spikes but he hasn't been a 3 down LBer for some time now, good depth however. As is Muton and Bird, two young unproven players.
OLB is a bit more tricky. We have two proven veterans(SP and JJ) and two young unproven guys(English and Melvin). Personally, I feel Melvin will be a good player for us, but I am not sold on English. He, to me, is better suited for a 4-3. Both might be but thats another topic for a different day. We do need to eventually replace SP, if not this year, then next for sure. Either via FA or the draft I wouldn't mind seeing us grab another pass rusher.
Lastly, our secondary. I have huge questions marks here and feel this is our biggest area for concern. I like Weddle, but everything else scares me. A move from CB to Safety makes sense to almost everyone for Jammer. Hopefully with a new regime, we can finally make that move. That, inturn, leaves us with holes on the outside. I do feel that Wright is talented enough to play alone out there but he is young and mostly unproven. It will be interesting to see what we do with Cason. I thought this guy was going to become one of the better cover corners in the game but that hasn't panned out too well. He is talented but gets beat too often because he has absolutely zero press game.
If none of the top 2 LTs are available and no trade partner to be had to move down, drafting Dee Milner would be a huge plus for us. He is as talented as they come and could plug in nicely next to Cason or Wright. Im still hoping we can trade down and stockpile our picks!

[sonorajim]

Originally Posted by SDfootball61

Yes, but that doesn't really matter, what i'm looking at is play style. Butler right now is the guy we want to make sure is free and clear, and able to fill and make the tackle, we dont want to use him as a battering ram like we used Spikes, that would be a complete waste of his athleticism IMO. I'd much rather keep him as the WILB, and find a new thumper, whether that be Mouton/Bird or a FA/Draftee.

Me too. Two ILBs who can move are better than one.

[flwelshman]

Originally Posted by BleedBolts

IMO, our D-line is one of the strengths of our Defense. With the emergence of Luiget and Reyes, we have ends to make the 3-4 work. NT is a question mark, but I do feel a rotation of Thomas and Franklin(if resigned) can work.
Now with our current group of ILBers, I think we can all agree that Butler is a stud and will be an impact player for many years to come. I was really impressed with Demarrio Williams last season and would like to see more of Butler and Williams inside. We can keep Spikes but he hasn't been a 3 down LBer for some time now, good depth however. As is Muton and Bird, two young unproven players.
OLB is a bit more tricky. We have two proven veterans(SP and JJ) and two young unproven guys(English and Melvin). Personally, I feel Melvin will be a good player for us, but I am not sold on English. He, to me, is better suited for a 4-3. Both might be but thats another topic for a different day. We do need to eventually replace SP, if not this year, then next for sure. Either via FA or the draft I wouldn't mind seeing us grab another pass rusher.
Lastly, our secondary. I have huge questions marks here and feel this is our biggest area for concern. I like Weddle, but everything else scares me. A move from CB to Safety makes sense to almost everyone for Jammer. Hopefully with a new regime, we can finally make that move. That, inturn, leaves us with holes on the outside. I do feel that Wright is talented enough to play alone out there but he is young and mostly unproven. It will be interesting to see what we do with Cason. I thought this guy was going to become one of the better cover corners in the game but that hasn't panned out too well. He is talented but gets beat too often because he has absolutely zero press game.
If none of the top 2 LTs are available and no trade partner to be had to move down, drafting Dee Milner would be a huge plus for us. He is as talented as they come and could plug in nicely next to Cason or Wright. Im still hoping we can trade down and stockpile our picks!

And one good reason to sign Vaughn Martin, IMO. We need him in order to keep everyone fresh, and in case of an injury.

[DieHardCharge]

Although I see SP more than likely leaving this year, along with Ingram an JJ, we still have Antwan Barnes. I see a lot more value in him than SP as much as I like Phillips. We can't lose him and it would be a smart move for us to keep him. So that would leave us English, Barnes, Ingram, and Johnson. We'll probably draft one more OLB for depth