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  #1  
Old 01-09-2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Tough Choices

It's part of every off season.

Free Agents:
Ingram - Needs to be back; worth 8-9M/year IMO; may get offered more; franchise tag at the very least (expensive one year rental but he wouldn't be easily replaced)
Woody - I'm torn. He'll be 32. Maybe one more year at 2M?
Addae - He's a decent starter. Fair market for middle of the road strong safeties is about 3.5M. Offer 10M over 3 years?
Lissemore - Really like him as veteran depth. But I'm guessing Square will be cheaper.
Square - He's been a nice surprise and should be cheap.
Te'o - Let him walk, we're good at ILB
Clemens - Unless we draft someone, Clemens is fine and not expensive.

Possible Cuts:
Flowers - Not worth 11M; 7M cap savings
Stuckey - He'll be 30 making 3.3M; 2.9M cap savings if cut; we have some cheap youngins who've been doing a great job on ST; thanks, Stuckey, you've been great but...
Fluker - Not worth 8.8M; love your passion, Fluke, but test out FA and come back for around 2M if you like.
Franklin - 4.8M dead cap if cut, but a savings of 2.8M. He hasn't played up to his contract. I think I would eat that dead money and let him go.
Barksdale - His 5.5M salary next year will make him the 10th highest paid RT. Cutting costs us. I'd say he's a middle of the road starter, so he's overpaid by about 2M. Not the absolute end of the world. He's on the roster for another year, but hopefully not starting.
King - He's worth his salary when healthy. We could save 5M by cutting him but you can't do that without a legitimate plan for the blind side. Gotta keep him and hope he can give us at least 12 starts.
S.Johnson - 3.5M savings if cut. Inman and T.Williams have stepped up. Thank you for your service, Stevie.
Gates - Slated to make 5.5M, we could save 5M by cutting him. He wants one more year? I say give it to him. 5.5M really isn't too bad considering he wouldn't even be a top 15 salary next year.

About 21.5M in cap savings has been bolded.
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Final Mock/Wish-list
1st: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
2nd: Dion Dawkins, OL, Temple
3rd: Tarell Basham, EDGE, Ohio
4th: Nico Siragusa, OG, SDSU
5th: Josh Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
6th: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar
7th: Tim Patrick, WR, Utah

Last edited by 909 Charger; 01-09-2017 at 02:07 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:45 PM
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I'd pay up and resign Ingram. I'd bring back Woodhead, Addae, Square, and Clemens on the the cheap and definitly cut Flowers and Fluker. Johnson and Stuckey are close calls, I'd be okay either way.. If we cut him we'd need to bring in another WR and I don't know if you'd find a suitable replacement for under 3.5 mil so I think he stays.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Padres15 View Post
I'd pay up and resign Ingram. I'd bring back Woodhead, Addae, Square, and Clemens on the the cheap and definitly cut Flowers and Fluker. Johnson and Stuckey are close calls, I'd be okay either way.. If we cut him we'd need to bring in another WR and I don't know if you'd find a suitable replacement for under 3.5 mil so I think he stays.
Keenan, Travis, Tyrell, Dontrelle... that's a good four considering HH, MGIII, Woody, and Gatesy are all viable weapons in the passing game.

Bring in someone off the street to compete with Burse for that 5th spot.

Throw that 3.5M at the OL.
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Final Mock/Wish-list
1st: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
2nd: Dion Dawkins, OL, Temple
3rd: Tarell Basham, EDGE, Ohio
4th: Nico Siragusa, OG, SDSU
5th: Josh Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
6th: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar
7th: Tim Patrick, WR, Utah
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
Keenan, Travis, Tyrell, Dontrelle... that's a good four considering HH, MGIII, Woody, and Gatesy are all viable weapons in the passing game.

Bring in someone off the street to compete with Burse for that 5th spot.

Throw that 3.5M at the OL.
That's a weak WR core with no depth. Injuries are going to happen and with that WR core you're one injury away from relying on Williams and or Inman as starters. We saw how effective that was this past season. Tyrell's game needs a lot of refining before I'd give him a starting gig. If you bring back Stevie for the last year of his contract it builds depth at the position and gives Tyrell another year to improve and grow into a larger role. If we cut Stevie we'd need to bring in more than a fringe #5 receiver, unless you want to rely on guys like Griff Whalen again.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
It's part of every off season.

Free Agents:
Ingram - Needs to be back; worth 8-9M/year IMO; may get offered more; franchise tag at the very least (expensive one year rental but he wouldn't be easily replaced)
Woody - I'm torn. He'll be 32. Maybe one more year at 2M?
Addae - He's a decent starter. Fair market for middle of the road strong safeties is about 3.5M. Offer 10M over 3 years?
Lissemore - Really like him as veteran depth. But I'm guessing Square will be cheaper.
Square - He's been a nice surprise and should be cheap.
Te'o - Let him walk, we're good at ILB
Clemens - Unless we draft someone, Clemens is fine and not expensive.

Possible Cuts:
Flowers - Not worth 11M; 7M cap savings
Stuckey - He'll be 30 making 3.3M; 2.9M cap savings if cut; we have some cheap youngins who've been doing a great job on ST; thanks, Stuckey, you've been great but...
Fluker - Not worth 8.8M; love your passion, Fluke, but test out FA and come back for around 2M if you like.
Franklin - 4.8M dead cap if cut, but a savings of 2.8M. He hasn't played up to his contract. I think I would eat that dead money and let him go.
Barksdale - His 5.5M salary next year will make him the 10th highest paid RT. Cutting costs us. I'd say he's a middle of the road starter, so he's overpaid by about 2M. Not the absolute end of the world. He's on the roster for another year, but hopefully not starting.
King - He's worth his salary when healthy. We could save 5M by cutting him but you can't do that without a legitimate plan for the blind side. Gotta keep him and hope he can give us at least 12 starts.
S.Johnson - 3.5M savings if cut. Inman and T.Williams have stepped up. Thank you for your service, Stevie.
Gates - Slated to make 5.5M, we could save 5M by cutting him. He wants one more year? I say give it to him. 5.5M really isn't too bad considering he wouldn't even be a top 15 salary next year.

About 21.5M in cap savings has been bolded.
Good summary and I agree with your comments. I expect Ingram to get 12-13/yr, and I think he's worth that given his performance the last two seasons.
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2017 Live Mock

1. Malik Hooker, S
2. Forrest Lamp, OG
3. Tim Williams, Edge
4. Jake Butt, TE
5. Desmond King, CB/S
6. Stevie Tu'ikolovatu, NT
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres15 View Post
That's a weak WR core with no depth. Injuries are going to happen and with that WR core you're one injury away from relying on Williams and or Inman as starters. We saw how effective that was this past season. Tyrell's game needs a lot of refining before I'd give him a starting gig. If you bring back Stevie for the last year of his contract it builds depth at the position and gives Tyrell another year to improve and grow into a larger role. If we cut Stevie we'd need to bring in more than a fringe #5 receiver, unless you want to rely on guys like Griff Whalen again.
When you have four good receivers (including two 1,000+ yard producers), I think that counts as at least some depth. You bring up injury concern, but want to rely on a 31 year old SJ who missed all of this year and 6 games last year?
__________________
Final Mock/Wish-list
1st: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
2nd: Dion Dawkins, OL, Temple
3rd: Tarell Basham, EDGE, Ohio
4th: Nico Siragusa, OG, SDSU
5th: Josh Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
6th: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar
7th: Tim Patrick, WR, Utah
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
When you have four good receivers (including two 1,000+ yard producers), I think that counts as at least some depth. You bring up injury concern, but want to rely on a 31 year old SJ who missed all of this year and 6 games last year?
As depth, yes. You're not going to find a WR worth a lick for 3.5 million.

So you're good going into the season with practice squad guys as the 5th/6th receivers? Chargers fans know as well as anyone how often injuries attack...that'll be quite scary once a guy or two goes down. We'll be back to having practice squaders in the lineup.

I think Tyrell's numbers are misleading. Still very raw and has a limited route tree. He's not a guy you can rely on to consistently get open or catch contested balls. They're limited what they can do with him especially as the get closer to the goal line. i wouldn't be comfortable going in to the season with him as the #2.

Last edited by Padres15; 01-09-2017 at 11:16 PM..
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padres15 View Post
As depth, yes. You're not going to find a WR worth a lick for 3.5 million.

So you're good going into the season with practice squad guys as the 5th/6th receivers? Chargers fans know as well as anyone how often injuries attack...that'll be quite scary once a guy or two goes down. We'll be back to having practice squaders in the lineup.

I think Tyrell's numbers are misleading. Still very raw and has a limited route tree. He's not a guy you can rely on to consistently get open or catch contested balls. They're limited what they can do with him especially as the get closer to the goal line. i wouldn't be comfortable going in to the season with him as the #2.
This is a great post. Right or wrong, it takes strong conviction to post this when Williams is popular. How do we dissect his popularity ? IS he becoming an elite WR; or is he just a guy that made plays down the depth chart when the starters got injured ? Is he 13-3 material; or just looked good on a 5-11 squad ?

I have told this board for years, like it or not, you win with stars. Is Williams that star ? His story this young has yet to be written I think. But I certainly feel where you are writing from. I ultimately believe he is a depth chart fighter. 3-4-5.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:27 AM
ltinabottle ltinabottle is offline
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Taking the fan hat off and going by the law of diminishing returns to save $, I'd recommend the following.

Ingram definitely worth signing back given his performance and chemistry with Bosa in rushing the passer. This is his payday contract and Melvin is one of our few #1 draft picks that has not only started and stayed healthy but produced at a high level. Melvin is a versatile athlete that can rush the passer and stop the run.

Woodhead- tough call because I like him. Injuries and age has caused Danny to lose a step. A younger and more athletic Ronnie Hillman can replace him.

The same reasoning for Gates. Great career but to have him hang around just to break a td record is not helping the team. Like Tony Gonzales, he can sign with another team for a season to break the record.

T'eo- offer him a contract that's reasonable. He may seek elsewhere for a better offer. Has good chemistry with Perryman. Manti will be a solid back up.

Same can be said for Addae, Square and Clemons. Sign them and let them compete during camp. Lissemore is the odd man out given the depth of our defensive line.

Agreed with possible cuts to see if we can get younger playmakers at wide out and special teams/ secondary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
It's part of every off season.

Free Agents:
Ingram - Needs to be back; worth 8-9M/year IMO; may get offered more; franchise tag at the very least (expensive one year rental but he wouldn't be easily replaced)
Woody - I'm torn. He'll be 32. Maybe one more year at 2M?
Addae - He's a decent starter. Fair market for middle of the road strong safeties is about 3.5M. Offer 10M over 3 years?
Lissemore - Really like him as veteran depth. But I'm guessing Square will be cheaper.
Square - He's been a nice surprise and should be cheap.
Te'o - Let him walk, we're good at ILB
Clemens - Unless we draft someone, Clemens is fine and not expensive.

Possible Cuts:
Flowers - Not worth 11M; 7M cap savings
Stuckey - He'll be 30 making 3.3M; 2.9M cap savings if cut; we have some cheap youngins who've been doing a great job on ST; thanks, Stuckey, you've been great but...
Fluker - Not worth 8.8M; love your passion, Fluke, but test out FA and come back for around 2M if you like.
Franklin - 4.8M dead cap if cut, but a savings of 2.8M. He hasn't played up to his contract. I think I would eat that dead money and let him go.
Barksdale - His 5.5M salary next year will make him the 10th highest paid RT. Cutting costs us. I'd say he's a middle of the road starter, so he's overpaid by about 2M. Not the absolute end of the world. He's on the roster for another year, but hopefully not starting.
King - He's worth his salary when healthy. We could save 5M by cutting him but you can't do that without a legitimate plan for the blind side. Gotta keep him and hope he can give us at least 12 starts.
S.Johnson - 3.5M savings if cut. Inman and T.Williams have stepped up. Thank you for your service, Stevie.
Gates - Slated to make 5.5M, we could save 5M by cutting him. He wants one more year? I say give it to him. 5.5M really isn't too bad considering he wouldn't even be a top 15 salary next year.

About 21.5M in cap savings has been bolded.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:42 PM
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Good thread, OP.

Lissemore. Nope.
Te'o. Flowers. Why not, if price is right ?
Stuckey. ST Captain. OK. Emergency only safety.
Done with DJ/Franklin.
Stevie stays. Again, price must be right.
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