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  #81  
Old 02-10-2017, 06:13 AM
Dha Dha is offline
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Adams is a top 5 pick yet missing and Jones is a top 25 pick but in your top 10.
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1. Reuben Foster (get a top 5 player without a top 5 pick. Foster will be an absolute monster in the pros). Never enough LBs in the NFL and guys like#51 dont belong in the starting lineup.
2. OL
3. Brad Kaaya (time to look forward to a new era at QB)
4. Joe Mixon RB (talented back who'll drop for off field altercation 2 years ago).
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  #82  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Daygoboy6191 View Post
Allen or Thomas would be ideal pick for us, although I give the nod to Thomas because of the versatility he would bring to the line play and defense as a whole.
Just finished watching both of their highlight videos again...

Allen:

Thomas:

Two things jumped out at me:

1. Thomas is playing for a defense with far less star-power. A lot of Allen's tackles were gang tackles with other superb athletes around the ball. Furthermore, I would assume that opposing O Coordinators would be scheming to stop Thomas when playing Stanford... but the gameplan against Alabama would be far more difficult... you can't just stop Allen... you have other high-rounders on that D: e.g. Foster, Tomlinson, Williams. According to this website:

http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings

there are no other highly regarded prospects on the Standford D. IMO, this makes Thomas more intriguing.

2. These two players play different positions, so we have to ask ourselves whether we need someone to play DT or DE. Allen could line up next to Bosa and make one side of our line very difficult to deal with. Allen also appears to be the kind of interior DLineman who could actually sack the QB on a somewhat consistent basis. Thomas would likely end up on the other side of the line from Bosa... his highlight reel is beyond impressive. Very explosive and so quick. If Melvin is departing, then perhaps this is our most urgent need on the defense.

In short, I would not be disappointed with either pick... but from a BPA perspective... Thomas looks like the biggest difference-maker between the two. Interesting that the link I posted in (1.) has him listed as the 3rd best edge-rusher behind Garrett and Williams. As I mentioned earlier, the latter plays on the same D as Foster and Allen. Gotta think that helps him attain statistics. Came away very impressed with Thomas... dude was dominant on a defensive squad that lacked other stars.
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  #83  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:27 AM
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Although Jonathan Allen plays with more potential stars, I believe he's a better pick. If the Chargers were to stay at 7 and Allen was available, I'd go his way, if of course d line was what they were going for. Both played at end and d tackle, and if only watching there highlights, most of there highlights came from inside not outside. Watching game tapes though, Thomas and Allen seemed to be better inside than out. On the outside, Thomas was much more ineffective against OT's than against G's and OC's, and didn't seem to have the burst he had inside. Allen however, while not having the burst outside he does inside, seems to always stand his man up and shed him as soon as he wants too, where as Thomas can get caught up with and stuck with Olineman much more frequently. Just my opinion, but I don't think the highlight films do justice as much as game tape.
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  #84  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:40 AM
Daygoboy6191 Daygoboy6191 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dha View Post
Adams is a top 5 pick yet missing and Jones is a top 25 pick but in your top 10.
Adams is a top 5 pick, and Jones is a top 25.... where? In mock drafts?


Adams is a good versatile safety, but I don't see anything elite about him.

I don't see him as a guy who is going to be a playmaking FS, and he isn't really an enforcer you would like from a SS. He is a stuck between the two, and his versatility to bring him up in the slot and play man coverage is great but I don't see any elite traits. I don't see great playmaking ability due to average hands, and not really going to be a ballhawk IMO.

Sidney Jones is a long, athletic cb, who has very very good playmaking skills, and is a very disruptive player at the CB position. His hands are very good, and is exactly what teams look for at the CB position in todays NFL.

At the end of the day I feel Sidney Jones has the most upside, and will be a guy who is a turnover machine VS Jamal Adams who is a better tackling Byron Jones for the Cowboys. Byron Jones is a great athlete, but lacks the playmaking genes.
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  #85  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daygoboy6191 View Post
Adams is a top 5 pick, and Jones is a top 25.... where? In mock drafts?


Adams is a good versatile safety, but I don't see anything elite about him.

I don't see him as a guy who is going to be a playmaking FS, and he isn't really an enforcer you would like from a SS. He is a stuck between the two, and his versatility to bring him up in the slot and play man coverage is great but I don't see any elite traits. I don't see great playmaking ability due to average hands, and not really going to be a ballhawk IMO.

Sidney Jones is a long, athletic cb, who has very very good playmaking skills, and is a very disruptive player at the CB position. His hands are very good, and is exactly what teams look for at the CB position in todays NFL.

At the end of the day I feel Sidney Jones has the most upside, and will be a guy who is a turnover machine VS Jamal Adams who is a better tackling Byron Jones for the Cowboys. Byron Jones is a great athlete, but lacks the playmaking genes.
You don't think Adams is an enforcer? I actually think he would make a great SS... big and athletic enough to cover TEs and aggressive play vs the run.
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2017 Live Mock

1. Malik Hooker, S
2. Forrest Lamp, OG
3. Tim Williams, Edge
4. Jake Butt, TE
5. Desmond King, CB/S
6. Stevie Tu'ikolovatu, NT
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  #86  
Old 02-10-2017, 12:00 PM
Daygoboy6191 Daygoboy6191 is offline
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You don't think Adams is an enforcer? I actually think he would make a great SS... big and athletic enough to cover TEs and aggressive play vs the run.
Enforcer no.

Karl Joseph now that dude was an enforcer in college. A guy who terrified teams in college, and was a very sure tackler. If he squared you up, you weren't getting up. That was a guy that teams didn't want to risk going up the middle because the BOOM was coming.

Jamal Adams IMO is not that guy.

A safety that is not a ballhawk playmaker is not a top 10 pick in my book, and that might be a personal thing. With that being said I love his versatility, but in the top 10 no. I would much rather look in the second round or possibly trading up to get a Budda Baker who IMO is a very good playmaking FS, although it is very likely he is a big riser in this draft.
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  #87  
Old 02-10-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by glutton4Bolts View Post
Just finished watching both of their highlight videos again...

Allen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbp5ghNZrOk

Thomas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl3EAGuIZLs

Two things jumped out at me:

1. Thomas is playing for a defense with far less star-power. A lot of Allen's tackles were gang tackles with other superb athletes around the ball. Furthermore, I would assume that opposing O Coordinators would be scheming to stop Thomas when playing Stanford... but the gameplan against Alabama would be far more difficult... you can't just stop Allen... you have other high-rounders on that D: e.g. Foster, Tomlinson, Williams. According to this website:

http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings

there are no other highly regarded prospects on the Standford D. IMO, this makes Thomas more intriguing.

2. These two players play different positions, so we have to ask ourselves whether we need someone to play DT or DE. Allen could line up next to Bosa and make one side of our line very difficult to deal with. Allen also appears to be the kind of interior DLineman who could actually sack the QB on a somewhat consistent basis. Thomas would likely end up on the other side of the line from Bosa... his highlight reel is beyond impressive. Very explosive and so quick. If Melvin is departing, then perhaps this is our most urgent need on the defense.

In short, I would not be disappointed with either pick... but from a BPA perspective... Thomas looks like the biggest difference-maker between the two. Interesting that the link I posted in (1.) has him listed as the 3rd best edge-rusher behind Garrett and Williams. As I mentioned earlier, the latter plays on the same D as Foster and Allen. Gotta think that helps him attain statistics. Came away very impressed with Thomas... dude was dominant on a defensive squad that lacked other stars.
I think that's a very good analysis. I like both of these guys, but you make a very good point about Allen benefiting form the rest of the defensive stars on thr Alabama team. Thomas stands out without that same calibre of help.

Kudos for taking the time to make, and present, that assessment.
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  #88  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eightdogs View Post
I think that's a very good analysis. I like both of these guys, but you make a very good point about Allen benefiting form the rest of the defensive stars on thr Alabama team. Thomas stands out without that same calibre of help.

Kudos for taking the time to make, and present, that assessment.
Allen is a star and not a product of a good system and boatload of talent around him. He isn't a 1 year wonder with Alabama but 3 year star and has faced talented guards and tackles and preformed at the highest level. Imo the only other star in this draft with a higher ceiling is Garrett and possibly Malik McDowell.
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  #89  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:36 PM
Dha Dha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daygoboy6191 View Post
Adams is a top 5 pick, and Jones is a top 25.... where? In mock drafts?


Adams is a good versatile safety, but I don't see anything elite about him.

I don't see him as a guy who is going to be a playmaking FS, and he isn't really an enforcer you would like from a SS. He is a stuck between the two, and his versatility to bring him up in the slot and play man coverage is great but I don't see any elite traits. I don't see great playmaking ability due to average hands, and not really going to be a ballhawk IMO.

Sidney Jones is a long, athletic cb, who has very very good playmaking skills, and is a very disruptive player at the CB position. His hands are very good, and is exactly what teams look for at the CB position in todays NFL.

At the end of the day I feel Sidney Jones has the most upside, and will be a guy who is a turnover machine VS Jamal Adams who is a better tackling Byron Jones for the Cowboys. Byron Jones is a great athlete, but lacks the playmaking genes.
Adams is not getting out of the top 10, and your boy Jones is not getting in. we'll just agree to disagree.
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1. Reuben Foster (get a top 5 player without a top 5 pick. Foster will be an absolute monster in the pros). Never enough LBs in the NFL and guys like#51 dont belong in the starting lineup.
2. OL
3. Brad Kaaya (time to look forward to a new era at QB)
4. Joe Mixon RB (talented back who'll drop for off field altercation 2 years ago).
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  #90  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraig1 View Post
Although Jonathan Allen plays with more potential stars, I believe he's a better pick. If the Chargers were to stay at 7 and Allen was available, I'd go his way, if of course d line was what they were going for. Both played at end and d tackle, and if only watching there highlights, most of there highlights came from inside not outside. Watching game tapes though, Thomas and Allen seemed to be better inside than out. On the outside, Thomas was much more ineffective against OT's than against G's and OC's, and didn't seem to have the burst he had inside. Allen however, while not having the burst outside he does inside, seems to always stand his man up and shed him as soon as he wants too, where as Thomas can get caught up with and stuck with Olineman much more frequently. Just my opinion, but I don't think the highlight films do justice as much as game tape.
Agreed.
Allen wins his one on one almost every time, that's consistent domination, and a big reason I think he's CURRENTLY the best defender in the draft.
I think it's valid to point out who he is surrounded by and what gameplans opposing O coordinators went with, but just looking at what he CAN do, it's very impressive.
Allens quickness is comprable to Aaron Donald, not saying he's there but I think they're both quick to either beat their guy or slide right by them.
He's definitely an interior guy who I want to put next to Bosa


Soloman's traits are just so impressive that it's easy to project him as a dominant DE in a more traditional 43 (not Gus' Seattle over/under)
I think it's going to take some internal motivation from Soloman to want to improve his awareness and so far nothing I've read about him makes me believe he isn't ready to take the next step

So at this point it's like both have about the same ceiling with allen being the more nfl ready
Neither are perfect immediate fits but the important part is that the upside is there for the molding.

Btw soloman looks solid in run defense and schematically it would be nice to have the edges secured by him and Bosa and funnel the RBs right into the middle where peryyman can say HELLO!
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