Chargers Header
Forum Home News Media Vault Schedule Team Charger Girls Tickets Fan Zone Community En Espaņol Fantasy Football Pro Shop

Go Back   The Official Los Angeles Chargers Forum > Chargers Talk > General Discussions
Register FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:32 PM
909 Charger's Avatar
909 Charger 909 Charger is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: La verne
Posts: 2,764
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadTrip View Post
Meh. One is a big disappointment, the other has been largely disappointing. Six in one, half a dozen in the other.
JA was definitely raw coming out. A high ceiling project. I think his development is pretty much right on time. His explosiveness is clear and he's better against the run than I think most expected.

I think we'll be seeing a break out of sorts this year.

MI, on the other hand, has reached his ceiling.
__________________
Final Mock/Wish-list
1st: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
2nd: Dion Dawkins, OL, Temple
3rd: Tarell Basham, EDGE, Ohio
4th: Nico Siragusa, OG, SDSU
5th: Josh Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
6th: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar
7th: Tim Patrick, WR, Utah
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:42 PM
HeadTrip's Avatar
HeadTrip HeadTrip is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Auburn
Posts: 17,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 909 Charger View Post
JA was definitely raw coming out. A high ceiling project. I think his development is pretty much right on time. His explosiveness is clear and he's better against the run than I think most expected.

I think we'll be seeing a break out of sorts this year.

MI, on the other hand, has reached his ceiling.
It's hard to say MI has reached his ceiling when he's 26 and slimmed down 20 lbs last season, which yielded his best season yet, a season almost twice as productive as JA. I'm not overly enthralled with either but I'll take MI over JA all day every day. The question is cost. JA is worth his meager contract, will MI be worth a substantial contract moving forward?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:49 PM
909 Charger's Avatar
909 Charger 909 Charger is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: La verne
Posts: 2,764
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadTrip View Post
It's hard to say MI has reached his ceiling when he's 26 and slimmed down 20 lbs last season, which yielded his best season yet, a season almost twice as productive as JA. I'm not overly enthralled with either but I'll take MI over JA all day every day. The question is cost. JA is worth his meager contract, will MI be worth a substantial contract moving forward?
MI didn't look so hot against the run. I wonder if he lost a little too much weight.
__________________
Final Mock/Wish-list
1st: Jamal Adams, S, LSU
2nd: Dion Dawkins, OL, Temple
3rd: Tarell Basham, EDGE, Ohio
4th: Nico Siragusa, OG, SDSU
5th: Josh Dobbs, QB, Tennessee
6th: Brendan Langley, CB, Lamar
7th: Tim Patrick, WR, Utah
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-25-2016, 05:13 PM
physicsgeek physicsgeek is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WHO DAT
Posts: 1,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
Really? Attaochu had as many sacks in 2015, his second year (6), as Ingram managed in his first three years combined.
To be fair, 4 out of six of those sacks from Attaochu came in two games, Green Bay and Cleveland, both of which's lines are pretty awful too. He's been pretty inconsistent as well.

I'm just not all impressed by his 6 sacks honestly, even if they equaled Melvin's total in three years. Healthy Melvin just looks better than Attaochu does.

Ingram also had 5 more passes deflected this season which is almost like a sack too and a big bonus when it tips the ball in the air.

I just remember more flashes from Ingram honestly.

edit: I'd just like to see see if Attaochu can get to the 10.5 sacks number Melvin put up this season first before we decide to ditch Ingram for Attaochu in the long run.
__________________
San Diego Chargers 2003-2017
New Orleans Saints 2017 -

Why the Saints?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by physicsgeek; 02-25-2016 at 05:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-25-2016, 05:34 PM
DefenseWins's Avatar
DefenseWins DefenseWins is offline
Moderator of Insanity
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: EdgeOfSeat
Posts: 30,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WootMonkey View Post
Ya he's a good player. I never said otherwise, but you don't need stats to see that Miller is a better player. Just watch the games.
Dunno... seemed like you were. I'll take your word though

And yes, I do watch the games - and LB position more closely than most...
Quote:
Hopefully Telesco decides that having a good DL might be a good idea this year so we can see how Ingram plays with actual good players around him.
Very hopeful they add at least one top notch DL in one of the first 2 rounds - and maybe double dip elsewhere.

Quote:
What kind of contract would you offer him right now?
For me that's really a tough one with the "right now" part. The team's long term plans and what they do in FA this year definitely play into things. IMO, the light turned on for MI off the field this year - but not sure it's turned up all the way.

Let's look at some boundary numbers...

He's due to make $7.75M this year on his rookie option year - which is a smidge above the 20th best LB average salary for 2016.

Houston tops the scale with $16M with his recent contract

At 7th (Ware) it sits at $10M/year, 11th spot is $9M/year.

If one waits till after this year, Melvin's price could go up considerably - due to a combination of other new contracts signed and MI's play. It might go down, but the only reason it would is if he just had a horrible year overall. If they get DL help this year, the likelyhood is his productivity improves, meaning the price would climb.

The cap continues to climb. This year's franchise tag value is in the $13.7M range. Next year a good guess would be $15M based on contracts signed this year.

So - $8M bottom end, $14M top end for average salary. If I had to offer the contract today - I would make it a $10M/year average structured so in 2 years if he went south it wouldn't kill the cap to cut bait. To do so, look at Houston's signing bonus as a guide, which was $8.5M. Give MI an $8M signing bonus, a 8M roster bonus the following year to entice him to sign, then work out the rest to fit within the CBA rules for a $10M average, but with only the remaining signing bonus on the books if he tanked this year.

It might look like a lot this year, but it gives the team a cap friendly out early on, and when looked at from the perspective of down the road, a team friendly deal if Melvin continues like last year, and a bargain if he improves further with a better DL.

The Q is, would he sign it? It might need some incentive bonuses sprinkled in.

Last edited by SillyBoltsFan; 02-25-2016 at 05:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:08 PM
El Tee's Avatar
El Tee El Tee is offline
I'm No Noob
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Walt Disney World
Posts: 4,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyBoltsFan View Post
Dunno... seemed like you were. I'll take your word though

And yes, I do watch the games - and LB position more closely than most...

Very hopeful they add at least one top notch DL in one of the first 2 rounds - and maybe double dip elsewhere.


For me that's really a tough one with the "right now" part. The team's long term plans and what they do in FA this year definitely play into things. IMO, the light turned on for MI off the field this year - but not sure it's turned up all the way.

Let's look at some boundary numbers...

He's due to make $7.75M this year on his rookie option year - which is a smidge above the 20th best LB average salary for 2016.

Houston tops the scale with $16M with his recent contract

At 7th (Ware) it sits at $10M/year, 11th spot is $9M/year.

If one waits till after this year, Melvin's price could go up considerably - due to a combination of other new contracts signed and MI's play. It might go down, but the only reason it would is if he just had a horrible year overall. If they get DL help this year, the likelyhood is his productivity improves, meaning the price would climb.

The cap continues to climb. This year's franchise tag value is in the $13.7M range. Next year a good guess would be $15M based on contracts signed this year.

So - $8M bottom end, $14M top end for average salary. If I had to offer the contract today - I would make it a $10M/year average structured so in 2 years if he went south it wouldn't kill the cap to cut bait. To do so, look at Houston's signing bonus as a guide, which was $8.5M. Give MI an $8M signing bonus, a 8M roster bonus the following year to entice him to sign, then work out the rest to fit within the CBA rules for a $10M average, but with only the remaining signing bonus on the books if he tanked this year.

It might look like a lot this year, but it gives the team a cap friendly out early on, and when looked at from the perspective of down the road, a team friendly deal if Melvin continues like last year, and a bargain if he improves further with a better DL.

The Q is, would he sign it? It might need some incentive bonuses sprinkled in.
Kind of sad when the difference between an extra $2m may mean Ware over Melvin. Night and day at this point.

I still contend that another stud DE opposite Luiget does wonders for our pass rush. Nothing trumps the ability to get pressure up the middle.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:22 PM
HeadTrip's Avatar
HeadTrip HeadTrip is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Auburn
Posts: 17,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tee View Post
Kind of sad when the difference between an extra $2m may mean Ware over Melvin. Night and day at this point.

I still contend that another stud DE opposite Luiget does wonders for our pass rush. Nothing trumps the ability to get pressure up the middle.
If it makes you feel any better, Ware isn't worth his salary either.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:29 PM
El Tee's Avatar
El Tee El Tee is offline
I'm No Noob
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Walt Disney World
Posts: 4,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadTrip View Post
If it makes you feel any better, Ware isn't worth his salary either.
Agreed- I'm not saying if want Ware for $10m but strange bow in today's NFL marginal guys get overpaid.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-25-2016, 09:23 PM
The Moekid's Avatar
The Moekid The Moekid is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 32,274
Default

Pay the man TT!!!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-26-2016, 01:35 AM
LT21UK's Avatar
LT21UK LT21UK is offline
FIRE MIKE MCCOY
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 797
Default

Ingram shows flashes, but just seems to freelance too often. He constantly lost outside contain last year and IMO was a big reason, that we were so bad against the run. There is a guy on twitter and vine, who does sterling work with film study and there were tons of plays from Ingram, where this happened. I forget the guy's name, I'll have to go back and research it.

I also feel, that Ingram gets shutdown too often. He's not a dominant force or a consistent pass rusher. He gets washed out a lot and must have missed a load more sacks and stats last year, from missing tackles and not hanging on to the QB.

Again, IMO. He's not someone you'd want to pay big money. But with his skillset and undoubted ability, plus the position he plays. He's probably going to expect to get paid.

Perhaps if we got some help up front, players like Ingram, Liuget and Attaochu, would start to have a bit more success, on a regular basis?

This sounds like I'm hating on Ingram. I'm not. I actually really like him. I just don't think he's going to offer much value for monet and he's still so far from the finished article. Which at his age, is a bit of a concern.
__________________
Bold Predictions

Tyrell Williams 750 yards plus and 6 or more TD's

Hunter Henry with 500 yards plus and 5 or more TD's
Top 5 offense

Ingram with 14+ sacks
Bosa leads the team in TFL's & QB hurries. 8-10 sacks.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:42 PM.


© 2017 Los Angeles Chargers. All Rights Reserved.