L.A. Chargers?

[charger1_sj]

Originally Posted by DVBenz

I was in 7th grade and it was so awesome to be there, and have that in San Diego, going back to school after Christmas break. I listened to Scully and the Dodgers back then too.

I was of all things a Yankee fan until the Dodgers beat them in the World Series. Then I started to listen to Scully, greatest announcer ever. Never got on board with the Padres and eventually lost interest in baseball.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by DVBenz

What do you expect AFL people to say? They were promoting a business and facts be damned.

Sorry, just have to ask -- the people quoted are quoted in current times. Is there still an AFL being promoted that I don't know about? Cause if there is, I bet the ticket prices will be really affordable, and I'd be interested. I'd like a franchise in OC, too. And by the way, are the guys quoted, who were part of the AFL in the 60's, a part of the current AFL?

Originally Posted by DVBenz

I'm sure you never watched the games and you clearly don't know what you are talking about, but by all means carry on with the revisionist history, Chargers homers swallow propaganda like there's no tomorrow. That's the most common trait of this board, ignore reality.

Why so mad? I mean dang, that's some serious anger.

Also -- why do you waste your time here? If this is a board not based in reality, is it not, indeed, a waste of your time?

Originally Posted by DVBenz

Ewbank is the one guy in the article who doesn't have a league bias and he says the 1963 Chargers couldn't compete will the NFL.

1. That article is obviously very heavily researched. Did you note the hypothetical game breakdown? That took a lot of work, and no doubt, knowledge.

2. Did you note the author has written several historical NFL books, including one on Ray Nitschke, and one on the history of the AFL, year by year; as well as a book on Sandy Koufax? This isn't a simple blogger or message board person, he is a professional sports-history author.

3. How can you discount all of the following people and write them all off? (Note that this list is far abbreviated from the list of people cited in the article).

Sid Gillman: Bias? Sure. One of great minds in football history? No doubt. Telling it as he sees it? I believe. And you should, too. You can discount it a little for bias, but he knew that team better than anyone else.

Jack Faulkner, Administrator of Football Operations for the Rams and a member of Sid Gillman's staff in 1960-61. Connections to both leagues.

Steve Sabol, the president of NFL Films. Go ahead and knock Steve Sabol. He clearly knows (knew) nothing. And what were his comments, again? : "[Sabol] has viewed extensive film footage of every great pro football team, and it is his considered opinion that a 1963 Super Bowl would have been an intriguing matchup to say the least. 'I think Gillman's Chargers would've done very well against the NFL champion Bears,' Sabol says. 'I think that (Charger) team could've won. It would've been a very interesting matchup between a space-age offense and a stone-age defense.'"



Larry Grantham, a member of the '68 Jets, Jerry Mays a starting defensive end on Kansas City's two AFL Super Bowl teams, who played opposite the Chargers in '63.

Hank Stram who split two Super Bowl decisions with the NFL as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. What did he say, again?

"Sid's team in 1963 could have competed with anyone," Stram says. "San Diego was like the 49ers (of the 1980s). Everybody talked about their offense, but they had a great defense too."

Man, you sure have to ignore a lot of "reality", and a lot of people with extensive, and first-hand, knowledge, to attempt to trash that article so summarily.

[DVBenz]

Originally Posted by LongTimeOCBolts

Sorry, just have to ask -- the people quoted are quoted in current times.

You still want to grasp at straws, Okay, I'll play.

There's no mention when Gilman or the players quotes were taken but those same or similar statements were all said back in their AFL days. I heard it all and read it all back in 60's. They were all promoting the league back then. If those statements were repeated recently for this piece then those guys are holding onto that past.

Steve Sabol, RIP, made a career out of romanticizing the past. I love his work but it was always about hype. The other guys are biased AFLers.

The question you should ask yourself and others is why do so many people on here make up supposed facts that are clearly wrong?

Any chance we can get back on topic?

[guerro619]

Originally Posted by charger1_sj

I'm a little confused. Ewbank the one quoted was an NFL HC not writer.

The Chargers never won a title in LA. The 1963 AFL championship was won in SD.

Don't know if the Chargers could have competed with the Bears back then. We had some stars but the roster was considered inferior to NFL teams at the time. NBC's TV contract boosted the AFL and college stars started to sign with the AFL. That's when the NFL started to get serious about the AFL.

There's no question the AFL had innovation and a more daring passing game. But it was a high risk game often against inferior defenses. The AFL's tatics led to the real bump and run that CBs used so effectively in the late 60's early 70's.

By the late 60's the AFL coaching had put more emphasis on defense. The result was the top AFL teams could compete with the NFL. The bottom half of the league was still inferior to the NFL as the merger clearly showed once the teams started to play one another.

Good times at Balboa park, I was 9 years old when the Chargers won the championship. My favorite player at the time was Earnie Ladd. I didn't know any better and always rooted for him to score a TD. He may have actually have one, not sure. Anyway good childhood memories.

Where in any of my posts did I mention the chargers winning the AFL title in LA??? Just because I wasn't born at that time, do I take credit for the title. All I'm saying is I dissagree with Benz saying the AFL is a minor league. And when only one writer/coach says differently when so many others stated that the Chargers could win. It's all opinion. I was wrong in saying he didn't know anything. But based on the history, I agree with the others.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by DVBenz

You still want to grasp at straws, Okay, I'll play.

You're the one grasping at straws. You can't admit that the discussion linked above, about the 1963 Chargers, is fair. Every single one, including the author, either knows less than you, or is biased.

But hey, you went to AFL games in the 7th grade, so I will definitely listen to you, when it comes to the 1960's AFL, over Hank Stram, Sid Gillman, and Steve Sabol.

BTW -- you never answered the questions: Why so mad? And if this board is not based on "reality", why do you waste your time here?

[chargertom]

Originally Posted by DVBenz

The question you should ask yourself and others is why do so many people on here make up supposed facts that are clearly wrong?

So the quotes the OC provided are "AFL biased", so therefore they can be tossed out, right?

Is there any chance that you could just say your opinion differs from theirs?

Or does the fact that other people, including posters here, agree with them mean that they're blind Chargers homers who are swallowing AFL propaganda?

If that's the case, you can add my name to the list. I would have loved to watch a Chargers/Bears Super Bowl, and I'd have really liked our chances of beating them.

[LongTimeOCBolts]

Originally Posted by DVBenz

The question you should ask yourself and others is why do so many people on here make up supposed facts that are clearly wrong?

Please show me where I made up a supposed fact that is clearly wrong.

You sure to sling it, sir.

[Bolting Xero]

Originally Posted by LongTimeOCBolts

Sorry, just have to ask -- the people quoted are quoted in current times. Is there still an AFL being promoted that I don't know about? Cause if there is, I bet the ticket prices will be really affordable, and I'd be interested. I'd like a franchise in OC, too. And by the way, are the guys quoted, who were part of the AFL in the 60's, a part of the current AFL?



Why so mad? I mean dang, that's some serious anger.

Also -- why do you waste your time here? If this is a board not based in reality, is it not, indeed, a waste of your time?



1. That article is obviously very heavily researched. Did you note the hypothetical game breakdown? That took a lot of work, and no doubt, knowledge.

2. Did you note the author has written several historical NFL books, including one on Ray Nitschke, and one on the history of the AFL, year by year; as well as a book on Sandy Koufax? This isn't a simple blogger or message board person, he is a professional sports-history author.

3. How can you discount all of the following people and write them all off? (Note that this list is far abbreviated from the list of people cited in the article).

Sid Gillman: Bias? Sure. One of great minds in football history? No doubt. Telling it as he sees it? I believe. And you should, too. You can discount it a little for bias, but he knew that team better than anyone else.

Jack Faulkner, Administrator of Football Operations for the Rams and a member of Sid Gillman's staff in 1960-61. Connections to both leagues.

Steve Sabol, the president of NFL Films. Go ahead and knock Steve Sabol. He clearly knows (knew) nothing. And what were his comments, again? : "[Sabol] has viewed extensive film footage of every great pro football team, and it is his considered opinion that a 1963 Super Bowl would have been an intriguing matchup to say the least. 'I think Gillman's Chargers would've done very well against the NFL champion Bears,' Sabol says. 'I think that (Charger) team could've won. It would've been a very interesting matchup between a space-age offense and a stone-age defense.'"



Larry Grantham, a member of the '68 Jets, Jerry Mays a starting defensive end on Kansas City's two AFL Super Bowl teams, who played opposite the Chargers in '63.

Hank Stram who split two Super Bowl decisions with the NFL as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs. What did he say, again?

"Sid's team in 1963 could have competed with anyone," Stram says. "San Diego was like the 49ers (of the 1980s). Everybody talked about their offense, but they had a great defense too."

Man, you sure have to ignore a lot of "reality", and a lot of people with extensive, and first-hand, knowledge, to attempt to trash that article so summarily.

Checkmate.

[guerro619]

All I asked was why Benz thought the AFL was a minor league. So I was wrong about the coach. But as a kid I studied and researched up on the chargers history, and the teams in the AFL. If he thinks they are not, that's his opinion. For him to blow his top, is his decision. I recognize and admid I was wrong on the coach. But my opinion is that the chargers could have beaten the bears when Gillman went to the NFL league and asked to play the bears. Which they refused. That is all.

It's sad that there can't be any discussions on this board without people taking things so personal at times. I would have loved to hear the stories that Benz went thru as a kid. But oh well. I only wish I was there myself.