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  #41  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
This is exactly what I was afraid I'd hear. "How good does he need to be? He is a game manager."

Game manager is a euphemistic term for "mediocre quarterback."

I don't want a mediocre quarterback. They typically do not win Super Bowls. Trent Dilfer was the very rare exception, and he only won with one of the best defenses in the history of football.

I'm not advocating we replace Rivers immediately, but I am wondering out loud how long we give him to prove he's not replaceable.

By the way, Eli Manning probably has one more season before he's cut by the Giants.
Last year everybody loved this guy when everything was working after just one year. IMO the foot he hurt in the Cardnial game still has not healed, because he continues to throw off his back foot. Speculation of the left knee has been rumored all season on whether it has been right. Then add a new OC/HC with other new coaches, certainly there is an ajustment period.
Not comparing PR to Fouts, but Dan was mediocre for a fews too before his carreer took off. Obviously AJ, Norv and Co see this guy up close and personally more than any of us and see alot that they like that we can not.
PR is dealing with a lot of adversity this year, and this team is still going to the post season. At least they are winning while he works things out as oppose to losing and waiting for him to get it. Just takes a little patiences !
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  #42  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bigslick View Post
Sorry about Gannon, I dont know what I was thinking. Johnson was a journeyman.

Warner is the epitomy of a journeyman. He was cut by Green Bay and was playing Arena League. He was lucky that Rodney Harrison took out Trent Green in the preseason or he would have never seen the field. Obviously, he had one of the best seasons ever for a QB but he was certainly not a star before he won the Super Bowl.
I guess I'm using a different definition of journeyman. When I hear the term "journeyman quarterback," I imagine a completely average, interchangeable QB who would be average on any team he goes to.

Being cut by a team, or being on the bench for a while doesn't make someone a journeyman. No one calls Steve Young a journeyman.

But really, let's just avoid that silly debate and use a different term. Instead of "journeyman QBs," let's look at "average QBs" in the playoffs. Of the average quarterbacks, only Dilfer and Johnson have won.

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Originally Posted by ftwbolt View Post
Not comparing PR to Fouts, but Dan was mediocre for a fews too before his carreer took off. Obviously AJ, Norv and Co see this guy up close and personally more than any of us and see alot that they like that we can not.
PR is dealing with a lot of adversity this year, and this team is still going to the post season. At least they are winning while he works things out as oppose to losing and waiting for him to get it. Just takes a little patiences !
That's my hope. I think Rivers will improve.

How long do we give him to show that, though?

Last edited by Calculon; 12-26-2007 at 06:09 PM..
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  #43  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bigslick View Post
I wonder that myself. Look at the past 10 Super Bowl Winners (since 1998)

1998 Elway Franchise QB (14th+ year in league)
1999 Elway Franchise QB (14th+ year in league)
2000 Warner Journeyman QB (3rd year in the league)
2001 Dilfer Journeyman QB (7th+ year in league)
2002 Brady (sixth rounder) Franchise QB (2nd year in league)
2003 Gannon Journeyman QB (10th+ year in league)
2004 Brady (sixth rounder) Franchise QB (4th year in league)
2005 Brady (sixth rounder) Franchise QB (5th year in league)
2006 Roethlisberger Franchise QB (2nd year in league)
2007 Manning Franchise QB (9th year in league)

I think that a team has a decent chance with a journeyman QB.
Also, you should note how long those QB's have been in the league.

I mean it took Manning 9 years to finally get it.

Some might be a bit hastey with where they expect River's to be at.

No matter what kind of supporting cast he has around him, that doesn't mean he's just going to not go through the same struggles that almost every QB has to deal with.
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  #44  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:12 PM
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The QB rating also doesn't factor in leadership, of which Philip has plenty, or clutch play, in which Philip has excelled. Besides, there are some guys above him who are clearly not the QB that Rivers is. Would you honestly rate Kurt Warner above Rivers? Sage Rosenfels? Chad Pennington? Those guys play in spread-formation, pass-first offenses which inflate their stats.


Very few QB's excel in their first season. Rivers was one of them. He has slumped a little, but lets not exaggerate. He WINS a lot of games for us, he's rarely a liability out there.


You are in the minority to think that Rivers is below average. The team and offense has flourished with him under center, and you are not giving him enough credit. The team set records on offense last year, and it wasn't all LT. There has been an adjustment period this year with new coaches and WR's, but it looks like they are rolling on offense again.


He's an emotional guy. It appears that the team rallies behind him, as evidenced by how the team has won a lot of close games over the past 2 years. Sometimes his emotions get the best of him, but I wouldn't say it's a huge problem. I would rather have a QB like Rivers than a "steady" QB who never elevates his game when the team needs it.


You paint a particularly unfavorable picture of Rivers. You fail to acknowledge his role in our victories and ignore his tremendous season last year. Do you have something personal against him?
Beautifully written and said. Calculon seems to have a hard on for Rivers and sees very little value in his play. You did a good job presenting a perspective that is far more balanced and on target. If I could have given five stars to your message refuting Calculon I would have. Kudos.
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  #45  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Rivers+LT=SB View Post
Also, you should note how long those QB's have been in the league.

I mean it took Manning 9 years to finally get it.

Some might be a bit hastey with where they expect River's to be at.
Oh, I totally agree. Rivers in Year 9 will be twice the quarterback he is in Year 4. He will improve.

The problem is, the Chargers might not have that long to win a Super Bowl. The window of opportunity really depends on guys like LT, Jamal Williams, Shawne Merriman, some of whom might not be here in four or five years.

Due to circumstances, we might not be able to wait 4-5 years for Rivers to mature.
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  #46  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:15 PM
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Beautifully written and said. Calculon seems to have a hard on for Rivers and sees very little value in his play. You did a good job presenting a perspective that is far more balanced and on target. If I could have given five stars to your message refuting Calculon I would have. Kudos.
Excuse me, that's really unfair. I have nothing personal against Rivers. And I do value the good plays he makes.

Don't paint me as some Rivers-hater, I am far from it.
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  #47  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
I guess I'm using a different definition of journeyman. When I hear the term "journeyman quarterback," I imagine a completely average, interchangeable QB who would be average on any team he goes to.

Being cut by a team, or being on the bench for a while doesn't make someone a journeyman. No one calls Steve Young a journeyman.

But really, let's just avoid that silly debate and use a different term. Instead of "journeyman QBs," let's look at "average QBs" in the playoffs. Of the average quarterbacks, only Dilfer and Johnson have won.



That's my hope. I think Rivers will improve.

How long do we give him to show that, though?


I think as long as he needs, I mean what are our other options?

Draft a QB and hope? Start Volek / Whitehurst and hope?

I think either of these two options closes the window on LT much more then sticking with our current QB who has proven that he can win games and be the QB we need in some situations.

I'd much rather take my chances with our own amazing QB comming out of college. And someone who has shown some great games and ability to comeback from adversity in the NFL, then maybe someone who had done good/great in college and has no NFL experience and is a BIG (?).
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  #48  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rivers+LT=SB View Post
I think as long as he needs, I mean what are our other options?

Draft a QB and hope? Start Volek / Whitehurst and hope?

I think either of these two options closes the window on LT much more then sticking with our current QB who has proven that he can win games and be the QB we need in some situations.

I'd much rather take my chances with our own amazing QB coming out of college. And someone who has shown some great games and ability to comeback from adversity in the NFL, then maybe someone who had done good/great in college and has no NFL experience and is a BIG (?).
Personally, I'd give Rivers another year. Let his 2008 play stand for analysis. If he improves, we lock him up long-term.

If he doesn't improve (or godforbid, regresses), I would draft a lower-round backup QB who we could groom over time. I would also consider trade/FA options.
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  #49  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:20 PM
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I'm more concerned about next years #2 QB than Rivers he may be no Joe Montana but I like him. To answer you question I believe he signed a 6 yr. deal in 04 can't find details.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bdave/id24.html

Philip Rivers: 6-Year worth 40.5M base thru 2010-2011 season signed in August 2004- + he receives 14.5M in signing and option bonuses- + receives 3.5M in intial bonus and first year salary, to make for 18M guaranteed- + can earn up to 10M in bonuses making contract worth 50.5M- + he received a 6.625M option bonus for 2010 by being roster on March 10, 2005- + he will make about 2.9M in 2005- + his base salaries are: 230K in 2004, 305K in 2005, 615K in 2006, 940K in 2007, 1.265M in 2008, 1.59M in 2009 and 1.915M in 2010- + with bonuses he earned total salaries of: 8.955M in 2004
Agent: Jimmy Sexton
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  #50  
Old 12-26-2007, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ftwbolt View Post
http://home.earthlink.net/~bdave/id24.html

Philip Rivers: 6-Year worth 40.5M base thru 2010-2011 season signed in August 2004- + he receives 14.5M in signing and option bonuses- + receives 3.5M in intial bonus and first year salary, to make for 18M guaranteed- + can earn up to 10M in bonuses making contract worth 50.5M- + he received a 6.625M option bonus for 2010 by being roster on March 10, 2005- + he will make about 2.9M in 2005- + his base salaries are: 230K in 2004, 305K in 2005, 615K in 2006, 940K in 2007, 1.265M in 2008, 1.59M in 2009 and 1.915M in 2010- + with bonuses he earned total salaries of: 8.955M in 2004
Agent: Jimmy Sexton
Thank you.
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