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  #111  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:40 AM
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sonorajim sonorajim is offline
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Originally Posted by Ikeman83 View Post
Defense will be better if the front 3 are on it. If they're bad, the front 7 will be bad, and the back 4 can't cover all day.
True, but... the dinged up patchwork DL finished well last year. Reasons they will be better:
Improved health: We lost Bingham preseason, Jamal game 1. Oggie late season.
Cesaire, Castillo and Martin required postseason surgery. Travis Johnson was recovering from earlier groin surgery.
Additions: Garay was signed last Dec. He has since impressed the coaches and is most likely the NT to start the season. Our 330lb rookie NT, Thomas and Oggie will compete for the job and play in rotation.
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  #112  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sonorajim View Post
True, but... the dinged up patchwork DL finished well last year. Reasons they will be better:
Improved health: We lost Bingham preseason, Jamal game 1. Oggie late season.
Cesaire, Castillo and Martin required postseason surgery. Travis Johnson was recovering from earlier groin surgery.
Additions: Garay was signed last Dec. He has since impressed the coaches and is most likely the NT to start the season. Our 330lb rookie NT, Thomas and Oggie will compete for the job and play in rotation.
Boone was okay in relief for Castillo and in the 2 man front we occasionally played in the nickel.
I'd be surprised if we carried more than 8 of those guys, more likely 7. Someone's gotta get the axe.

I'd guess the DC will look something like this:
RDE: TJ, VM
NT: Garay, Og, Thomas
LDE: LC, Boone

Yes, I think Bingham and Cesaire are headed for the wood pile. It's possible Bingham beats out VM if VM doesn't show much improvement in camp. Also possible they ditch Boone in favor of one of the younger guys.
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  #113  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:53 AM
Stone85 Stone85 is offline
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"Just" your defense doesn't win Championships. No, it doesn't.
Unless you have a ridiculously amazing Defense, which no team has.

A good coach and a good-enough team, that wins you a Championship.
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  #114  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
I have a much different take on our defensive shortcomings than most here.

I'm sure a lot of you remember just a couple of short years ago, when the entire stadium would stand as one and shout, "YOU CAN'T RUN!!!"

And, even better yet, when they tried to pass, we actually had people blitzing. LBs and DBs, and oftentimes, both.

Yes, the players should be held accountable for some of the blame, IMO, the majority of the blame for our defensive shortcomings lays in the middle of Ron Rivera's lap. IMO, it's Rivera's fault our defense is not very reliable, especially when we NEED a stop.

We did go 13-3, so it's not like we're terrible, but that was more often than not attributable to our dominant offense. Like most good NFL teams, actually all that I can think of, we are only going to be considered dominant in one or two areas, and our most obvious dominance is in our passing game, and that's what won us so many games last year, not the defense.

To be honest, I think Ron Rivera has been getting a "FREE RIDE" for the past two years, and if he can't do something about our defense within the first 6-8 games, I hope Norv walks into AJ's office like he did with good ol' Ted.

etc
Solid post.
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  #115  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by FCBolt View Post
Solid post.
Ron Rivera, needless to say, needs to step his game up.
If Norv can't win us an SB, Put him at OC and Rexxy at HC !!
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  #116  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post

Now, you can argue Jamal Williams, or Merriman's injury, or anything else you want, but I'm here to tell you that even without Jamal, our personnel is way better than Tampa's...and I feel very confident in stating I believe our defensive talent is better than the Saints too. And, I feel very confident in stating that I personally believe Wade Phillips, or any other good 3-4 coach would have had our defense playing better than the Saints, whose front 7 finished 11 spots higher than ours in effectiveness.

The strength of the 3-4 is in the interchangeability of the front 7, and to some extent, the DBs, yet what is Rivera doing with our front 7? Instead of blitzing Merriman and Phillips...he drops them into a zone.

He has us playing a "read and react," a "bend but don't break," or whatever else you want to call it defense. What we play, is basically a Cover 2 from a 3-4. If this was a great experiment, it's time to drop it now. This is just not how the 3-4 is meant to be played, and in doing so, instead of our players playing to their strength, they are played in a fashion that exposes their weaknesses.

Case in point. In a normal 3-4, you blitz at least one player every down, be it a LB or DB. Watch the Steelers...the Jets...the Ravens...the Patriots...the Dolphins...the Packers...and so on, and see if this isn't so. Not us. We rush our 3 DL, drop everyone else in a zone, and WAIT for the play to develop.

.



Back to the Cover 2 you claim we ran last year... We constantly had 8 in the box, with Elison in the box to help slow down the run..Mostly because or inability to stop the run with our front 7.The inability to stop the run with or front 7 can be attributed to the lack of our NT demanding a double team. I saw Rivera having to make all kinds of adjustments to compensate(elison in the box, safty blitz's and using run stopping speacalist like siler instead of coverage specialist like burnett). Even good old Wades D would have struggled without a strong NT, the NT was the staple of the front 7 and the reason why our front 7 was so succesful at stopping the run back in the day. If we were playing cover 2 both safties would be playing deep zones... One good thing about cro was he could handle anyone deep and didnt require safty help deep. Rewatch last year. You will see a cover 3, with the FS playing deep. Rivera showed trust in his corners in that respect and our corners did well not getting beat deep 1 on 1(even cro except against ochocinco).

As far as the lack of aggression alot of our sacks came on safty blitz's because our linebackers wernt geting to the qb. We did rushed 1 linebacker a majority of the time( not just the front 3 lineman like you claim). Our outsidelinebackers were just getting no pressure like they were in the past. Blame it on Merriman not being 100% or the lack of our NT demanding a double team thus Merriman being double teamed (instead of being 1 on 1 vs a tightend like he was when he was getting all those sacks).

I think we will improve our pass rush greatly this season. Merriman hopefully will be closer to 100%. English will be more experienced and should improve. Tucker will be back aswell as applewhite. Hopefully Cam will be strong and will require double teams. Hopefully Rivera will be able to truly use the defense the way he wants to without having to over compensate for our inability to stop the run with our front 7.

EDIT oh ya not to mention Butler and Stucky can both stop the run and have coverage skills. Which will provide schematic flexablity. Unlike SS Elison who was a run stopper or the ILB's who were either run stoppers(Dobbins or Siler) or coverage guys(Cooper or Burnett)..

Last edited by Firemarshalbill; 06-27-2010 at 10:20 AM..
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  #117  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by flwelshman View Post
I have a much different take than most here.
Your observations are far to lengthy to repeat. Suffice it to say that after the first five games the D gave up an avg 16.7 ppg. 7, 16, 20, 23, 3, 14, 23, 17, 24, 17, 20 and the NYJ 17. Had the offense played as well, we would have won all twelve.

The only stat or observation that is manifestly relevant is the score. Rivera's D struggled early and settled down and played at a top 5 defensive pace re scoring. That's a good starting point for this season.
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  #118  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Firemarshalbill View Post
Back to the Cover 2 you claim we ran last year... We constantly had 8 in the box, with Elison in the box to help slow down the run..Mostly because or inability to stop the run with our front 7.The inability to stop the run with or front 7 can be attributed to the lack of our NT demanding a double team. I saw Rivera having to make all kinds of adjustments to compensate(elison in the box, safty blitz's and using run stopping speacalist like siler instead of coverage specialist like burnett). Even good old Wades D would have struggled without a strong NT, the NT was the staple of the front 7 and the reason why our front 7 was so succesful at stopping the run back in the day. If we were playing cover 2 both safties would be playing deep zones... One good thing about cro was he could handle anyone deep and didnt require safty help deep. Rewatch last year. You will see a cover 3, with the FS playing deep. Rivera showed trust in his corners in that respect and our corners did well not getting beat deep 1 on 1(even cro except against ochocinco).

As far as the lack of aggression alot of our sacks came on safty blitz's because our linebackers wernt geting to the qb. We did constantly rush 1 linebacker( not just the front 3 lineman like you claim). Our outsidelinebackers were just getting no pressure like they were in the past. Blame it on Merriman not being 100% or the lack of our NT demanding a double team thus Merriman being double teamed (instead of being 1 on 1 vs a tightend like he was when he was getting all those sacks).

I think we will improve our pass rush greatly this season. Merriman hopefully will be closer to 100%. English will be more experienced and should improve. Tucker will be back aswell as applewhite. Hopefully Cam will be strong and will require double teams. Hopefully Rivera will be able to truly use the defense the way he wants to without having to over compensate for our inability to stop the run with our front 7.
Good detail but some exaggeration in both posts.
We didn't always rush one LB but it wasn't like we were stuck rushing 3 or even 2 guys most of the time either. The truth is somewhere in between.

We did play some cover 2 and also sometimes had Ellison in the box. Oliver relieved Ellison plenty once Gregory took Cason's spot at nickel.
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  #119  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sonorajim View Post
Your observations are far to lengthy to repeat. Suffice it to say that after the first five games the D gave up an avg 16.7 ppg. 7, 16, 20, 23, 3, 14, 23, 17, 24, 17, 20 and the NYJ 17. Had the offense played as well, we would have won all twelve.

The only stat or observation that is manifestly relevant is the score. Rivera's D struggled early and settled down and played at a top 5 defensive pace re scoring. That's a good starting point for this season.
I disagree. If we stick with the same scheme and roster, we'll see the better teams stomp our DL. Luckily, we have an easy schedule, which should set us up nicely for another playoff 'surprise.'
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  #120  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:18 AM
LABoltsFan LABoltsFan is offline
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i think most of you are selling ron short....

NEVER once in his tenure here has he had any season go as planned.

unlike most, including last season, i believe ron has done a GREAT job adapting and holding things together with smoke, mirrors and duct tape.
You all want to look at stats, but i choose to look at results... interestingly enough, all of our random issues (fired hc, injured Probowl NT, injured Probowl OLB), have occured in the beginning of the season, and by the end of the season ron's retooled everything and made our squad one of the best in the league. Stats will always betray growth and adaptations.

- Ron's year 1: Ted Cottrell Trainwreck Cleanup
- Year 2: Merriman Issues, Cro issues
- Year 3: Jwall (All NT) / Merriman / Cro Issues

Ron has done a very good job with the players he has been given and the random issues that have plagued his defense. Last season could have been a disaster (with merriman, jwall, etc) if Ron wasnt as competent/good as he is.

For once, i want a chargers season to "go as planned" and not lose any key superstar players in the first weeks of the season. Until we are 100% hearlthy and all of our players are on the field, we cant reach our fullest potential.

Last edited by LABoltsFan; 06-27-2010 at 10:22 AM..
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