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vicsteele
06-07-2016, 09:43 AM
I've yet to hear any rumblings in the Chargers camp about McCoy. Does he get a free pass from the failure of last year because of injuries? Is he on a long or short leash? Will TT keep him on another year if we win less than 8? Would 8-8 or 9-7 be enough for him to stay?

frozendisc
06-07-2016, 09:44 AM
No....he is gone if the team starts out poorly is my thought.

21and500
06-07-2016, 09:50 AM
if Telesco values his job as the Chargers GM, McCoy should be on a very short leash.

sonorajim
06-07-2016, 10:27 AM
What was wrong with the team last year?
OL-RB-WR-DL-ILB-CB injuries and underperformance by individuals like Flowers, Butler, MGIII.

If McCoy is responsible for choosing to retain most of our starting OL and it doesn't work out, I'd can him. On most of the rest of the offseason choices, I think we got it right.
Whisenhunt, OL & DL coaches, Slausen & Mebane, defensive draft. Looks good.

Only Telesco knows how much responsibility McCoy had for the 4-12 result. All I saw was poor clock management. I suspect he was a Reich proponent. That's about it.

Anyway, that's beside the point. We aren't going to have a losing season.

Throw Back
06-07-2016, 11:09 AM
I've yet to hear any rumblings in the Chargers camp about McCoy. Does he get a free pass from the failure of last year because of injuries? Is he on a long or short leash? Will TT keep him on another year if we win less than 8? Would 8-8 or 9-7 be enough for him to stay?
They will probably give McCoy a contract extension half way thru the season then try to keep it under wraps like they did with TT's 3 year extension.

charger1_sj
06-07-2016, 11:18 AM
What was wrong with the team last year?
OL-RB-WR-DL-ILB-CB injuries and underperformance by individuals like Flowers, Butler, MGIII.

If McCoy is responsible for choosing to retain most of our starting OL and it doesn't work out, I'd can him. On most of the rest of the offseason choices, I think we got it right.
Whisenhunt, OL & DL coaches, Slausen & Mebane, defensive draft. Looks good.

Only Telesco knows how much responsibility McCoy had for the 4-12 result. All I saw was poor clock management. I suspect he was a Reich proponent. That's about it.

Anyway, that's beside the point. We aren't going to have a losing season.

4-12. Lots of problems besides injuries.

21and500
06-07-2016, 11:28 AM
McCoy the job interviewer > McCoy the head coach

frozendisc
06-07-2016, 11:29 AM
What was wrong with the team last year?




Such an impaired memory......kool-aid does that.

4-12 is the first thing that comes to mind, and yes, I blame the HC for losing. Combine last years horrible results with MM's history of poor leadership, and I would hope he is on a very short leash.

RCCthatsme
06-07-2016, 11:47 AM
No!!!!!!!!

mdsd77
06-07-2016, 11:52 AM
Like I said before - Game week 9 this coming season he gets the Axe!

AirJackson83
06-07-2016, 12:34 PM
8-8 or worse no playoffs we HAVE to fire the coach. 9-7 we miss the playoffs because of bad luck? I'd have to see how the 9-7 actually happens for me to want to keep McCoy another year.

sonorajim
06-07-2016, 01:52 PM
I'm not a big McCoy fan but am a fan of going toward something. No one brings guaranteed improvement at HC.
4-12 stinks but I definitely want to see McCoy complete 2016.
I believe we'll make a strong playoff run. If MM embarrasses me, he's outta here!

frozendisc
06-07-2016, 05:59 PM
I'm not a big McCoy fan but am a fan of going toward something. No one brings guaranteed improvement at HC.
4-12 stinks but I definitely want to see McCoy complete 2016.
I believe we'll make a strong playoff run. If MM embarrasses me, he's outta here!


4-12 to strong PO run seems a bit too hopeful......and all while retaining a marginal HC. TT needs to continue to improve the talent, and that would include the talent in the staff.

topcat4477
06-07-2016, 06:02 PM
8-8 or worse no playoffs we HAVE to fire the coach. 9-7 we miss the playoffs because of bad luck? I'd have to see how the 9-7 actually happens for me to want to keep McCoy another year.

If the Bolts go 8-8, there's a chance MM doesn't get fired...

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mca147ad373ae7e0cd8a22d9d6c514d03o2&pid=15.1&P=0&w=260&h=195

The Moekid
06-07-2016, 06:11 PM
bad season? He won't survive a bad pre-season on the CMB.

woodeye2000
06-07-2016, 06:20 PM
CMB is brutal.

But Mike's a survivor.

:cool:

chargertom
06-07-2016, 06:35 PM
Extend McCoy, NOW!!!

Pay the man, TT!!

frozendisc
06-07-2016, 06:41 PM
Extend McCoy, NOW!!!

Pay the man, TT!!

Clearly it is time some Mods were replaced......

Perhaps Freak would be willing to play Mod.....

Anwar
06-08-2016, 12:38 AM
Clearly it is time some Mods were replaced......

Perhaps Freak would be willing to play Mod.....


Yeah, i agree. There is a certain mod or two that needs to go.

Chargerfreak
06-08-2016, 03:27 AM
I'm not a big McCoy fan but am a fan of going toward something. No one brings guaranteed improvement at HC.
4-12 stinks but I definitely want to see McCoy complete 2016.
I believe we'll make a strong playoff run. If MM embarrasses me, he's outta here!

I could run you a list a mile long, but the latest one I can think of might be Bruce Arians at Arizona. The guy was Coach of the Year as a SUBSTITUTE coach prior to Arizona hiring him.

chargertom
06-08-2016, 03:35 AM
I could run you a list a mile long, but the latest one I can think of might be Bruce Arians at Arizona. The guy was Coach of the Year as a SUBSTITUTE coach prior to Arizona hiring him.

It would be a short list, compared to the list of coaches who have failed/been fired.

Chargerfreak
06-08-2016, 03:37 AM
It would be a short list, compared to the list of coaches who have failed/been fired.

OR, we have ours who fails and doesn't get fired......................

chargertom
06-08-2016, 03:39 AM
OR, we have ours who fails and doesn't get fired......................

OR, we have ours who doesn't fail and gets fired..................

ltinabottle
06-08-2016, 03:56 AM
He is trying. If you watch he and Telesco, talk to the media post draft, he caught himself then paused mentally for what seemed like a day before answering the question in more depth vs. the standard pat answer "doing what's best for the team".

I think the CMB doesn't want trying at this point. We need to win now and the team culture that MM created is what it is. With the new talent and coaching staff added this season, let's see if we can win in spite of MM.

Chargerfreak
06-08-2016, 04:25 AM
OR, we have ours who doesn't fail and gets fired..................

We might be cooking if we ever get the formula right.

mdsd77
06-08-2016, 05:00 AM
Unfortunately for MM a huge influence to get a New Coach will be the Stadium factor.

they will make a decision based on starting new and fresh in L.A. if there is no new stadium agreement in SD.

Gives the team an excuse, if they continue to falter if they do move....

HeadTrip
06-08-2016, 05:12 AM
No....he is gone if the team starts out poorly is my thought.

Agreed.

If the Bolts get halfway through the season with 2 wins or less I think Whiz gets a shot to right the ship.

kubeck07
06-08-2016, 06:35 AM
The bigger questions is will Telesco survive if MGIII turns into Trent Richardson. I think not.

topcat4477
06-08-2016, 07:27 AM
The bigger questions is will Telesco survive if MGIII turns into Trent Richardson. I think not.

You could be right, IF a total Gordon fail is in addition to a total Bolt fail...

LT21UK
06-08-2016, 07:34 AM
Unless we're mathematically, the first ones out of the playoffs or we lose like 4-5 out of our first 6-7. Then I think he is here until the end of the season.

Another losing season and no playoffs and I think he'll be gone, though.

I hope we move on from him. As I don't see him as the long term solution. But I can only see it happening if we fail, yet again. Catch 22.

HeadTrip
06-08-2016, 07:34 AM
You could be right, IF a total Gordon fail is in addition to a total Bolt fail...

Right. No single player is going to cost TT his job. Given the fact that he signed an extension last year I'm not convinced he'll get fired even if the Bolts poop the bed again this season. He'll probably get one more shot at hiring a HC.

frozendisc
06-08-2016, 08:09 AM
The bigger questions is will Telesco survive if MGIII turns into Trent Richardson. I think not.

The presumption is TT was the big driver on making that trade/pick.....what if he was speaking against it before the Bolts committed to the move ?

Boltup90
06-08-2016, 08:13 AM
The presumption is TT was the big driver on making that trade/pick.....what if he was speaking against it before the Bolts committed to the move ?

I can see it now:

Spanos: GET GORDON!!
TT: Seriously?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!
TT: Bro.... You want me to trade up, for the second RB, in this deep draft?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!!
TT: Whatever Bud, but never say I didnt tell you so....

Week 8:

Spanos: So Tom, whats say we give you an extension and let you control the draft next year?
TT: Sounds good Bud...

Chargerfreak
06-08-2016, 08:23 AM
The presumption is TT was the big driver on making that trade/pick.....what if he was speaking against it before the Bolts committed to the move ?

Doesn't work that way. GM makes the call.

frozendisc
06-08-2016, 08:40 AM
Doesn't work that way. GM makes the call.

Owners make calls.....

GM's get the headlines.....

frozendisc
06-08-2016, 08:40 AM
I can see it now:

Spanos: GET GORDON!!
TT: Seriously?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!
TT: Bro.... You want me to trade up, for the second RB, in this deep draft?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!!
TT: Whatever Bud, but never say I didnt tell you so....

Week 8:

Spanos: So Tom, whats say we give you an extension and let you control the draft next year?
TT: Sounds good Bud...


Probably not that direct, but you get the gist.....

Chargerfreak
06-08-2016, 08:42 AM
Owners make calls.....

GM's get the headlines.....

The vast majority of GM's have the final say, including TT.

Its not how I would do it though. I would make the pick and if it goes to Suckville then I would blame the GM. Hey, whatever works. For me.

frozendisc
06-08-2016, 08:56 AM
The vast majority of GM's have the final say, including TT.

Its not how I would do it though. I would make the pick and if it goes to Suckville then I would blame the GM. Hey, whatever works. For me.

Neither of us know if the bold above is true or not.......

topcat4477
06-08-2016, 08:58 AM
Owners make calls.....

GM's get the headlines.....

Al Davis reportedly made the call on drafts several times...

topcat4477
06-08-2016, 09:00 AM
I can see it now:

Spanos: GET GORDON!!
TT: Seriously?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!
TT: Bro.... You want me to trade up, for the second RB, in this deep draft?
Spanos: GET GORDON!!!!
TT: Whatever Bud, but never say I didnt tell you so....

Week 8:

Spanos: So Tom, whats say we give you an extension and let you control the draft next year?
TT: Sounds good Bud...

I wouldn't be surprised if it happened like this...

R4PT0R
06-08-2016, 09:13 AM
If our team sucks this year, it's absolutely McCoy's fault. Tom has done a great job this offseason IMO - think it's been our best offseason in a while. But ultimately, it was his decision to keep McCoy. Hopefully that poor decision doesn't override some of the good work he has done this offseason.

Boltup90
06-08-2016, 09:19 AM
If our team sucks this year, it's absolutely McCoy's fault. Tom has done a great job this offseason IMO - think it's been our best offseason in a while. But ultimately, it was his decision to keep McCoy. Hopefully that poor decision doesn't override some of the good work he has done this offseason.

Was it? How do we know this?

HeadTrip
06-08-2016, 10:46 AM
bringing back Wiz looks like a compromise between john spanos and tom telesco.

I doubt it. Bringing back a highly regarded OC one year removed from doing the same job for your team to great effect is a virtual no-brainer.

sonorajim
06-08-2016, 11:16 AM
I doubt it. Bringing back a highly regarded OC one year removed from doing the same job for your team to great effect is a virtual no-brainer.

Yup. Best available talent. He won a SB as an OC in Pit, took Ari to a SB as HC, took SD to the playoffs his one year here as OC.
Reich oversaw a crash & burn in his two years as SD's OC following Whis.
Whisenhunt returns to familiar faces and some new assets. He's starting 2016 knowing what he has in several key players like Rivers, Gates and Woodhead.
Whis has something to prove after being dissed in Ten. and the Chargers can't wait to get the nasty taste left by 2015 out of their mouths. Nice pairing!

R4PT0R
06-08-2016, 11:22 AM
Was it? How do we know this?

Good point, the Spanos clan ruin everything because we never know who to blame now! The pitchforks get hot and we desperately search for answers. They get hot and they desperately want to be used, but we can never know, we can never know.

sonorajim
06-08-2016, 11:25 AM
Was it? How do we know this?
It's a reasonable assumption. Telesco was hired to run the team. If Spanos was going to take a HC over his GM's objection, there was an earlier incident where it would have been far more likely when the HC was coming off 14-2. Hard to believe Spanos would step up for a 4-12 HC.

frozendisc
06-08-2016, 12:25 PM
It's a reasonable assumption. Telesco was hired to run the team. If Spanos was going to take a HC over his GM's objection, there was an earlier incident where it would have been far more likely when the HC was coming off 14-2. Hard to believe Spanos would step up for a 4-12 HC.

It is not a reasonable assumption. To use your own example, AJ vs Marty, if AJ was making the calls in a stand alone aspect, he would have just fired Marty. Clearly the Owner was involved, which makes it seem reasonable to assume the owner was involved in the decision to retain MM as well.

meatbucket
06-08-2016, 12:34 PM
We might be cooking if we ever get the formula right.

Walter White for HC:LightsOut:

Raider Disliker
06-08-2016, 01:00 PM
I've yet to hear any rumblings in the Chargers camp about McCoy. Does he get a free pass from the failure of last year because of injuries? Is he on a long or short leash? Will TT keep him on another year if we win less than 8? Would 8-8 or 9-7 be enough for him to stay?

No joke, I am wondering if I would survive another bad season. 8-8 or 9-7, they will stay the course. Less than 8, McCoy will likely be exploring other career opportunities.

AirJackson83
06-08-2016, 04:44 PM
I could run you a list a mile long, but the latest one I can think of might be Bruce Arians at Arizona. The guy was Coach of the Year as a SUBSTITUTE coach prior to Arizona hiring him.

I really wanted the "Young & Hungry" approach at HC when McCoy was hired like the Tomlin effect on Steelers, but that was before seeing his "Belichick-esque" no personality attitude but Arians was my first choice. That man can COACH and he's got some fiiiiiiire!

Skunk
06-08-2016, 05:31 PM
I really wanted the "Young & Hungry" approach at HC when McCoy was hired like the Tomlin effect on Steelers, but that was before seeing his "Belichick-esque" no personality attitude but Arians was my first choice. That man can COACH and he's got some fiiiiiiire!


He would have been fired for not being a 'yes man'.
Maybe MM can surprise us, Maybe having Whiz kicking at his heels will light a fire under him.
Maybe... Just maybe....

R4PT0R
06-08-2016, 05:49 PM
I hope one day I can eat some Milquetoast with my Tasty Tasty crow

Cyborglives
06-09-2016, 12:09 AM
If he is, Whiz will take over...
I'm pretty sure that's why he came back. He'll get the interim job and probably the full HC job... and then get fired two years down the line.
We gotta hope MM does well... otherwise the window is closed for Rivers.

Anwar
06-09-2016, 12:46 AM
One of the things brought up on the Loose Canons show on 1360 was that one of the frustrating things McCoy started off with was "I thought we did a fine job."

That is some of the biggest loads of pig crap I've ever heard, because the record last season should say something about him to go along with the 2 years of no playoff appearances.

If he screws up its his butt on the hot seat. No excuses for mediocrity or even a crappy season.

Throw Back
06-09-2016, 11:45 AM
He is trying. If you watch he and Telesco, talk to the media post draft, he caught himself then paused mentally for what seemed like a day before answering the question in more depth vs. the standard pat answer "doing what's best for the team".

I think the CMB doesn't want trying at this point. We need to win now and the team culture that MM created is what it is. With the new talent and coaching staff added this season, let's see if we can win in spite of MM.

Agree- professional sports team are supposed to do more than just "trying". It is about winning and getting results.

This should be a make or break season for both TT and MM. They both have had enough time. No more excuses. Unfortunately ownership seems to be willing to accept mediocrity so TT and MM will probably stay on longer than they should.

Also, McCoy needs to come up with an alternative to his "doing what is the best for the team". To say MM has worn this out would be an understatement.

sonorajim
06-09-2016, 11:46 AM
It is not a reasonable assumption. To use your own example, AJ vs Marty, if AJ was making the calls in a stand alone aspect, he would have just fired Marty. Clearly the Owner was involved, which makes it seem reasonable to assume the owner was involved in the decision to retain MM as well.

Are you actually trying to say that Dean would fire a 14-2 coach on his own?
LOL! :Cheers:

sonorajim
06-09-2016, 12:00 PM
Agree- professional sports team are supposed to do more than just "trying". It is about winning and getting results.

This should be a make or break season for both TT and MM. They both have had enough time. No more excuses. Unfortunately ownership seems to be willing to accept mediocrity so TT and MM will probably stay on longer than they should.

Also, McCoy needs to come up with an alternative to his "doing what is the best for the team". To say MM has worn this out would be an understatement.

All anyone can do is try. Winning consistently takes a lot of luck. First get the right pieces in place personnel/coaching staff which is not a gimme. Bellichick was fired for losing in Clev.
Then stay healthy, get decent officiating in close games.

Ya keep after it, make some changes, sometimes it goes right.
We're in better shape today than the McCoy team that beat Cincy at home in the playoffs.

AirJackson83
06-09-2016, 03:06 PM
All anyone can do is try. Winning consistently takes a lot of luck. First get the right pieces in place personnel/coaching staff which is not a gimme. Bellichick was fired for losing in Clev.
Then stay healthy, get decent officiating in close games.

Ya keep after it, make some changes, sometimes it goes right.
We're in better shape today than the McCoy team that beat Cincy at home in the playoffs.


Is this a thing outside of Charger football???? I have never heard of dis "healthy" you speak of. :crazy:

HeadTrip
06-09-2016, 06:13 PM
Is this a thing outside of Charger football???? I have never heard of dis "healthy" you speak of. :crazy:

I'd settle for "riddled" by injuries this year. That's a couple notches above our usual "lambasted" by them.

frozendisc
06-10-2016, 08:09 AM
Are you actually trying to say that Dean would fire a 14-2 coach on his own?
LOL! :Cheers:

It is quite obvious that Dean did. The dysfunction between AJ and Marty had reached a point where Dean 'had' to act, and did so by firing a HC that was 14-2. So the decision to fire Marty was Dean's......

SDCPB
06-10-2016, 09:05 AM
Ya keep after it, make some changes, sometimes it goes right.
We're in better shape today than the McCoy team that beat Cincy at home in the playoffs.

We beat CIN at home? Mah they beat us.

sonorajim
06-10-2016, 10:06 AM
We beat CIN at home? Mah they beat us. McCoy's Chargers were the only team to beat Cincy at Cincy in the 2013 season and did so in the playoffs.
That's an indisputable historical fact. Sorry 'bout that. ;)

sonorajim
06-10-2016, 10:12 AM
It is quite obvious that Dean did. The dysfunction between AJ and Marty had reached a point where Dean 'had' to act, and did so by firing a HC that was 14-2. So the decision to fire Marty was Dean's......
OK, it was Dean's decision. He chose GM over the HC and I have no doubt he would do so again.
On the other hand I strongly doubt that he would fire a HC who has his GM's support. There has been no evidence to support that premise.

frozendisc
06-10-2016, 11:49 AM
OK, it was Dean's decision. He chose GM over the HC and I have no doubt he would do so again.
On the other hand I strongly doubt that he would fire a HC who has his GM's support. There has been no evidence to support that premise.

Yea, I agree.....and nobody has a clue as to TT being for or against the MM retention. I suspect it was discussed, with no strong feelings one way or the other, so it was decided to stay status quo.....but clearly just a guess on my part.

gzubeck
06-10-2016, 04:03 PM
Reich was just awful...he might got bill belicheck fired considering his managing of the offense. If mcoy screws it up with whis in there then maybe hes expendable.

Junior Teo
06-11-2016, 06:46 AM
A coach needs 5 years to prove himself. As long as he reaches 7-9 TT should keep him around

gzubeck
06-11-2016, 09:30 AM
A coach needs 5 years to prove himself. As long as he reaches 7-9 TT should keep him around

If the team looks good and competitive during that 7-9 season. If we look like underperforming smucks then no....

sonorajim
06-11-2016, 09:47 AM
Define "bad season".
No SB?
No playoffs?
Not over .500?

Right now I think 2015 was on Telesco. No established starters at C or RG, new vets at LG & RT. Shallow depth pool. Struggles to get his top draft pick going at RB.

gzubeck
06-11-2016, 10:01 AM
Define "bad season".
No SB?
No playoffs?
Not over .500?

Right now I think 2015 was on Telesco. No established starters at C or RG, new vets at LG & RT. Shallow depth pool. Struggles to get his top draft pick going at RB.

Add reich in there....it looked like somebody handed the keys of a formula one racecar to a kid who just drives daddies Beemer on the weekends!

Junior Teo
06-11-2016, 09:44 PM
If the team looks good and competitive during that 7-9 season. If we look like underperforming smucks then no....

We have a pretty tough division. I think 7-9 would earn another year

Chargerfreak
06-12-2016, 05:33 AM
We have a pretty tough division. I think 7-9 would earn another year

(Freak clutches his heart, gasps for air, and collapses to the floor. Emergency response signs it off as Sudden Shock Syndrome.)

chargertom
06-12-2016, 06:41 AM
5-11 gets him an extension.

It's improvement, right?

topcat4477
06-12-2016, 09:34 AM
5-11 gets him an extension.

It's improvement, right?

14-2 gets him fired...

Caslon
06-13-2016, 12:04 AM
McCoy is on a reset. An additional 2 year reset of his original 3 year plan. No matter what he does this year, the Charger's management isn't gonna fire him after this season. They don't work like that. McCoy is here thru 2017...Swami predicts.

sonorajim
06-13-2016, 09:37 AM
McCoy is on a reset. An additional 2 year reset of his original 3 year plan. No matter what he does this year, the Charger's management isn't gonna fire him after this season. They don't work like that. McCoy is here thru 2017...Swami predicts. He'd have to make an Obvious Mess of things to get cut in 2016. Sub .500 in the AFCW might do the trick.
If SD has 9 or more wins this year, 4 or more AFCW he will very probably be back.
Whisenhunt & the current roster should be enough to get McCoy another year as Chargers HC.

jubei
06-13-2016, 11:12 PM
maybe with Whis here he'll feel more competition...like AJ used to say "line 'em up and let 'em compete!"

SDCPB
06-14-2016, 04:17 AM
14-2 gets him fired...

Which is something this organization dreams of doing again.

sonorajim
06-14-2016, 08:13 AM
maybe with Whis here he'll feel more competition...like AJ used to say "line 'em up and let 'em compete!"
Seriously, I'm sure the only competition McCoy feels is his team vs the schedule. Whisenhunt is a quality weapon in his arsenal.
In my experience, having other leaders work for me was a plus. Do the best you can with everything at your disposal and let the chips fall where they may.

electricgold
06-14-2016, 08:47 AM
McCoy is on a reset. An additional 2 year reset of his original 3 year plan. No matter what he does this year, the Charger's management isn't gonna fire him after this season. They don't work like that. McCoy is here thru 2017...Swami predicts.

Are you kidding me?? IF & I say IF,,, We are all watching the same things this season, and the players are still not responding to MM and the team is still coming up just short, he'll be gone... Maybe before the season even ends with a certain play caller taking over...

sonorajim
06-14-2016, 09:13 AM
Are you kidding me?? IF & I say IF,,, We are all watching the same things this season, and the players are still not responding to MM and the team is still coming up just short, he'll be gone... Maybe before the season even ends with a certain play caller taking over... The play caller has already taken over offensive play calls. ;)http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/13/chargers-whisenhunt-back-on-the-job/2/?chargers#article-copy
The confidence, familiarity and previous success together that Whis brings at OC is a big deal. I don't grasp why some folks feel the Chargers won't build on what they did in 2013 with Whis at OC, MM at HC.
Personally I never had the impression that last year's Chargers weren't responding to the HC and that is why they lost 8 one score games. I believe that OL & DL play was our downfall and that it was not MM that made them substandard. Heck, Rivers & Allen were off to a record good pace 'till KA got badly hurt.
I do agree that if several of this year's projected starters just seem to be going through the motions (like Flowers in 2015) and McCoy leaves them on the field, MM is done.

JoeMcRugby
06-14-2016, 09:21 AM
McCoy is on a reset. An additional 2 year reset of his original 3 year plan. No matter what he does this year, the Charger's management isn't gonna fire him after this season. They don't work like that. McCoy is here thru 2017...Swami predicts.

Then they will need to extend him through 2018 if they decide to keep him after another bad season. No way does Chargers management allow him to be a lame duck in 2017, just like they didn't allow him to be a lame duck in 2016.

They don't work with lame ducks. Never have to my memory. So in other words, another bad season (.500 or below), McCoy is history. Done deal.

AK46um
06-14-2016, 11:35 AM
(Freak clutches his heart, gasps for air, and collapses to the floor. Emergency response signs it off as Sudden Shock Syndrome.)

Will McCoy Survive?


At first I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
If I were to get fired
But then I spent so many nights
Thinking what went wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned to shut up and just get along
And so you're back
From creating cap space
I just walked in to find you here
TT with a grin on his face
I should have changed that stupid lock
And made Pagano switch to a 4-3
If I had known for just one second
You'd be back to fire me

Chargerfreak
06-14-2016, 11:39 AM
Will McCoy Survive?


At first I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
If I were to get fired
But then I spent so many nights
Thinking what went wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned to shut up and just get along
And so you're back
From creating cap space
I just walked in to find you here
TT with a grin on his face
I should have changed that stupid lock
And made Pagano switch to a 4-3
If I had known for just one second
You'd be back to fire me


I will survive references are Approved.

gzubeck
06-14-2016, 06:18 PM
Then they will need to extend him through 2018 if they decide to keep him after another bad season. No way does Chargers management allow him to be a lame duck in 2017, just like they didn't allow him to be a lame duck in 2016.

They don't work with lame ducks. Never have to my memory. So in other words, another bad season (.500 or below), McCoy is history. Done deal.

I would have to give a conditional here....if the players are healthy and we go 6-10 then yes hes a goner. If rivers goes down for multiple games and we look good and go 6-10 then i dont know...some things are out of your control.

Throw Back
06-14-2016, 09:31 PM
Will McCoy Survive?


At first I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
If I were to get fired
But then I spent so many nights
Thinking what went wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned to shut up and just get along
And so you're back
From creating cap space
I just walked in to find you here
TT with a grin on his face
I should have changed that stupid lock
And made Pagano switch to a 4-3
If I had known for just one second
You'd be back to fire me

Good job on being creative with the Gloria Gaynor song. ( "I will survive") If McCoy could be as creative as your post he would have a better chance of surviving.

NoMoreChillies
06-14-2016, 10:10 PM
14-2 gets him fired...

DING

post of the year, you can all go home now

sonorajim
06-15-2016, 09:50 AM
Then they will need to extend him through 2018 if they decide to keep him after another bad season. No way does Chargers management allow him to be a lame duck in 2017, just like they didn't allow him to be a lame duck in 2016.

They don't work with lame ducks. Never have to my memory. So in other words, another bad season (.500 or below), McCoy is history. Done deal.
That's a high probability. ;) Not very likely that Telesco will take the hit after all the money spent, work done on the roster & staff.

SoonerCharger
06-15-2016, 03:02 PM
I think this team is too good to go sub .500 -- so yes, I think he is done. Especially with the history of expectations for Marty and Norv.

Caslon
06-16-2016, 06:49 AM
Settle down. The Chargers miss the playoffs by this much, but get to stay in San Diego. McCoy gets to stay here a year after this year. Management might bump up offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt to HC eventually. He's next to take the helm.
Ken...as the Chargers next HC. McCoy? The clock is ticking. Ken did great once. Lousy recently as a HC .

If McCoy doesn't come thru, the Spanos family will be sure to promote Whisenhunt to HC.

Whisenhunt has excelled as a HC and failed as a HC.

topcat4477
06-16-2016, 08:16 AM
Will McCoy Survive?


At first I was afraid
I was petrified
Kept thinking I could never live
If I were to get fired
But then I spent so many nights
Thinking what went wrong
And I grew strong
And I learned to shut up and just get along
And so you're back
From creating cap space
I just walked in to find you here
TT with a grin on his face
I should have changed that stupid lock
And made Pagano switch to a 4-3
If I had known for just one second
You'd be back to fire me


Not bad, AK, but you need a chorus:

"I'm back - back where I belong
With my fat contract, I just can't go wrong
I'm back - back where I belong
Until I go 7-9 or less, then I'll be gone!"
(maybe)

perryao
06-16-2016, 08:20 AM
Settle down. The Chargers miss the playoffs by this much, but get to stay in San Diego. McCoy gets to stay here a year after this year. Management might bump up offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt to HC eventually. He's next to take the helm.
Ken...as the Chargers next HC. McCoy? The clock is ticking. Ken did great once. Lousy recently as a HC .

If McCoy doesn't come thru, the Spanos family will be sure to promote Whisenhunt to HC.

Whisenhunt has excelled as a HC and failed as a HC.

I'm not a fan of Whiz as HC.

sonorajim
06-16-2016, 10:45 AM
I'm not a fan of Whiz as HC. He'd do in a pinch. His record at Arizona had some high points but they did dump him as did Ten. I'd guess he's not a long term answer at HC.
That aside, I like him at lot as the Chargers OC.
He did real well working with Rivers and got our stagnate run game rolling to boot. Returning to that position, he has a head start in this system and with several of our top vets.
I really can't see this team having a bad season.

charger1_sj
06-16-2016, 10:49 AM
I'm neutral with Whiz as a HC. Every HC in the NFL gets bumped eventually unless they win consistently or win a SB. Of course there are exceptions. Some franchises hang on to their HC, in some cases longer than they should.

JoeMcRugby
06-16-2016, 11:21 AM
I'm neutral with Whiz as a HC. Every HC in the NFL gets bumped eventually unless they win consistently or win a SB. Of course there are exceptions. Some franchises hang on to their HC, in some cases longer than they should.

Remember when Pete Carroll was a two-time failure who drew derision from virtually everybody from the northeast when he was hired as the Seahawks head coach?

Seems a long time ago, doesn't it? ;)

charger1_sj
06-16-2016, 11:25 AM
Remember when Pete Carroll was a two-time failure who drew derision from virtually everybody from the northeast when he was hired as the Seahawks head coach?

Seems a long time ago, doesn't it? ;)

Yup.
The Whiz seems to have a great relationship with PR. That's a good recipe.

topcat4477
06-16-2016, 07:19 PM
Remember when Pete Carroll was a two-time failure who drew derision from virtually everybody from the northeast when he was hired as the Seahawks head coach?

Seems a long time ago, doesn't it? ;)

Yep. Remember when Bill Bellicheat compiled a lackluster 36–44 record over 5 years with the Browns, got fired, then later on went to the Cheatriots?

HeadTrip
06-16-2016, 08:19 PM
Yep. Remember when Bill Bellicheat compiled a lackluster 36–44 record over 5 years with the Browns, got fired, then later on went to the Cheatriots?

The Browns probably didn't have a zoom lens.

DefenseWins
06-16-2016, 09:24 PM
The Browns probably didn't have a zoom lens.

:LightsOut:You're in mid-season form already:Cheers:

Chargerfreak
06-17-2016, 03:18 AM
Remember when Pete Carroll was a two-time failure who drew derision from virtually everybody from the northeast when he was hired as the Seahawks head coach?

Seems a long time ago, doesn't it? ;)

What seems a long time ago is using reality when you are trying to say that Mike McCoy is Pete Carroll.

PUBLICnoose
06-17-2016, 07:54 AM
What seems a long time ago is using reality when you are trying to say that Mike McCoy is Pete Carroll.
Carroll was successful in college. McCoy doesn't even have that in his resume

topcat4477
06-17-2016, 08:11 AM
What seems a long time ago is using reality when you are trying to say that Mike McCoy is Pete Carroll.

If MM can't make the playoffs with this roster, and if we stay relatively injury free, I think we need to consider inducting him into the Kevin Gilbride/June Jones/Mike Riley Bolt HC Hall of Shame...

frozendisc
06-17-2016, 08:11 AM
What seems a long time ago is using reality when you are trying to say that Mike McCoy is Pete Carroll.

Pete Carroll has never had concerns about his leadership, game management, or play calling (well there was that one time in a recent SB on the play calling). ;)

While Mike McCoy has shown little growth from the first season issues he had as a first time HC.....still has leadership questions, poor game management, and just real bad game planning for the offense. I know blame the injuries, blame the other offensive coaches, etc. etc. Give the Bolts health, and Wiz planning the offensive strategies, and have the result be 7-9, 8-8 or 9-7 and you got what you will get from MM....average.

sonorajim
06-17-2016, 10:21 AM
The Donks won two AFCW Championships with McCoy the OC playcaller.
Personally I'm neutral on him as our HC. I'm not convinced we can't win with him or that it's in our best interest to move on. I look forward to the coming season with considerable relish. We'll be a playoff contender or get a new HC. :Cheers:

frozendisc
06-17-2016, 10:25 AM
The Donks won two AFCW Championships with McCoy the OC playcaller.
Personally I'm neutral on him as our HC. I'm not convinced we can't win with him or that it's in our best interest to move on. I look forward to the coming season with considerable relish. We'll be a playoff contender or get a new HC. :Cheers:

With McCoy, or in spite of McCoy.....

Plenty of Donk fans were quite glad to see McCoy go....

McCoy is an average HC at best, and if average is what you strive for, you are good with him as the HC.

charger1_sj
06-17-2016, 10:48 AM
I believe the McRuggs comments were about The Whiz, not McCoy.

The Moekid
06-17-2016, 10:48 AM
The Donks won two AFCW Championships with McCoy the OC playcaller.
Personally I'm neutral on him as our HC. I'm not convinced we can't win with him or that it's in our best interest to move on. I look forward to the coming season with considerable relish. We'll be a playoff contender or get a new HC. :Cheers:

No they didn't. They famously lost to the Ravens in the afc championship game when they went turtle on offense. Then they bid him a not so fond farewell

SDCPB
06-17-2016, 11:13 AM
While Mike McCoy has shown little growth from the first season issues he had as a first time HC.....still has leadership questions, poor game management, and just real bad game planning for the offense.

Something is wrong with the coach when these things happen.

In week 17 of 2013 the Chiefs rested their starters, that should've been an easy win, but the Chargers were having trouble with the KC backups throughout the game. Had the Chargers lost, they would have missed the playoffs and it would've been infuriating.

In 2015 against the Steelers, Pittsburgh didn't have Ben and their other important players playing in that game. The Steelers were led by Vick at QB. The Chargers should have been jumping on the Steelers.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-17-2016, 12:33 PM
Pete Carroll has never had concerns about his leadership, game management, or play calling (well there was that one time in a recent SB on the play calling). ;)

Wrongo-o, frozen north frenchman. There were plenty of concerns about his leadership/management at the pro level.

frozendisc
06-17-2016, 12:50 PM
wrongo-o, frozen north frenchman. There were plenty of concerns about his leadership/management at the pro level.

ok..........

JoeMcRugby
06-17-2016, 08:51 PM
ok........


Spirit of Carroll Also Haunting Him
Trojans: Supporters tout his boyish enthusiasm as ideal for USC, but others say he was soft and too laid back with Jets, Patriots.
December 16, 2000|SAM FARMER | TIMES STAFF WRITER

...

But Carroll's boyishness comes at a price. He was criticized as head coach of the New York Jets and then the New England Patriots for being too soft on his players, too informal, too lodged in Never Never Land.

When the Jets fired Carroll after the 1994 season, one of the first things they did was get rid of the basketball court he had painted in the parking lot of the team's practice facility. He and his assistant coaches regularly played three-on-three games there during their spare time.

But before the workers toted away the backboard, the last vestige of Carroll's one-season reign as coach, some unsympathetic soul taped a sign to it reading "6-10." Everyone got the joke; that was Carroll's record, and the basketball court was part of his boyish legacy, at once endearing and troubling.

"He makes it fun," said former USC star Tim McDonald, who was a Pro Bowl safety and team captain when Carroll was defensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers in 1995 and '96. "He tries to get a vibe for what a team needs. He's willing to do whatever it takes to get a team going."

As coach of the Jets and the Patriots, he took his teams out bowling and hosted cookouts at his house. It wasn't unusual for him to round up players for a touch football game after practice, or to stand under the goal post and try to knock field goals out of the sky with well-placed bullet passes.

Those things went over well when his teams were winning. When the losses piled up, critics called Carroll too laid back, too soft on his players, simply overmatched. He was born and raised in the San Francisco Bay area and was a child of the Flower Power era. His laid-back style grated on many of those fans in New York and Boston, the ones who are high-strung and have even higher expectations.

"I think I fit better in other places," Carroll, 49, told the San Francisco Chronicle last month. He still lives outside Boston, although the Patriots fired him after last season. "The style that Steve Mariucci has there in San Francisco has been, I think, widely accepted. He's an excellent football coach, if he were , he'd have been run out of here a long time ago just because of the style. It's the culture. It's different here on the Eastern Seaboard."

Sometimes Carroll's emotions have gotten the best of him. In a game against the Dolphins in 1992, when Carroll was the Jets' defensive coordinator, TV cameras captured him flashing the choke sign--putting his hand to his throat--when Miami's Pete Stoyanovich missed a field goal. Carroll later said he regretted the gesture, particularly because the Jets wound up losing the game.

In 1994, Carroll was promoted to head coach. He led them to a 6-5 record, and they were playing Miami for first place in the division, when the bottom fell out.

The Jets blew a 17-point lead in the second half, falling prey to a Dan Marino comeback and a bit of trickery in the waning seconds that made the difference. With 22 seconds to play and the Dolphins driving but out of timeouts, Marino faked as if he would spike the ball, then tossed an eight-yard touchdown pass to Mark Ingram for a 28-24 victory.

It was a particularly low point for Carroll's defensive players, many of whom were standing upright with hands on hips when Marino threw the winning pass.

The Jets lost their next four games too, fired Carroll after the season and didn't pull out of their tailspin until Bill Parcells arrived in 1997. They lost 32 of 36 games after that demoralizing loss to the Dolphins.

Carroll moved on to the 49ers for two seasons, then took over as the Patriots' head coach when Parcells left. In three years in Foxboro, Carroll built a 27-21 record and twice reached the playoffs. [I][B]He was fired and replaced by Bill Belichick, owner of losing records at his previous head coaching job at Cleveland and current job with New England.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/dec/16/sports/sp-935

A description of when he was hired at USC:


...

After bouncing around college football for a decade, and then spending another ten as an NFL defensive assistant, Carroll became the head coach of the New York Jets in 1994. One of the first things he did was paint a basketball court in the parking lot of the team’s practice facility where coaches would play three-on-three in their spare time. The Jets went 6-10 that season, and Carroll was canned. As it turns out, pickup hoops looks pretty bad when you only win six games.

From 1997 to 1999, Carroll spent three seasons as head coach of the New England Patriots. His Drew Bledsoe-led teams reached the playoffs twice and achieved a 27-21 record overall, but Carroll was fired after missing the playoffs in 1999 and replaced by one Bill Belichick. As Bill Simmons wrote for ESPN in 2001, “Within months,” of Carroll’s hiring in New England, “players were diving into mosh pits, missing practices, and getting into car accidents and fistfights. Even though they were a consensus Super Bowl contender, the Pats kept making mistakes in big moments, and Carroll’s goofy ‘I’m jacked and pumped!’ routine was bordering on ‘Saturday Night Live sketch’ territory. One of my readers at the time joked, ‘The Pete Carroll era finally answers the question of why Fredo was never given control of the Corleone family.’”

...

http://archive.seattleweekly.com/home/951983-129/pete-carrolls-journey-former-loser-and


And a West Coast (i.e. Seattle) perspective after he was hired by the Seahawks:


Pete Carroll at center of Seattle Seahawks fans' debate
Some view the ex-USC coach's pro credentials skeptically. But with team in clear need of improvement, others give him benefit of the doubt

Scott Cushing, a civil attorney in the Thurston County prosecutor's office, was driving back from a doctor's appointment when news first hit the radio that Pete Carroll had been hired to coach the Seattle Seahawks.

It was raining as usual -- the windows were up. Nobody could hear him as he screamed "Noooo!" at the steering wheel.

"I almost careened off the road," said Cushing, who writes a sports blog for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "It was just disbelief, and anger. I couldn't fathom what they were thinking, putting this guy in charge."

Stephanie Barker, a grandmother from Everett, north of Seattle, wasn't any more enthusiastic. "I already can tell: I'm not going to like him," she declared. "He didn't do well with the New England Patriots. He didn't do well with the Jets. Is he going to just come in and mess up the Seahawks too?"

Ah. There's the rub. Seattle would probably be a lot more miffed about the idea of a college football coach with what many see as distant and dubious NFL credentials coming in and "messing up" the home team if "messing up" could conceivably be applied in these dark days to the Seahawks. By Dec. 27's 38-point loss to Green Bay, even the Seattle Times was sniffing that "dead horses everywhere" must be feeling "a tinge of sympathy" for Seattle.

So, many here are ready to put aside their skepticism, their wounded loyalties to fired coach Jim Mora, their old Pacific 10 Conference heebie-jeebies about USC, and give Carroll the benefit of the doubt.

"If he can get the job done, then I'm all for it," said Ed Elder, a beer malt roaster and lifelong Seahawks fan from Vancouver, Wash.

"People are saying, OK, maybe this one is it. We've got two first-round draft picks, maybe we can turn this thing around."

Since Carroll's name first surfaced Friday, sports pages and radio talk shows in the Northwest have been full of little else, with the nine-year USC veteran's coaching style, record, motivations and prospects endlessly debated.

Is he fleeing L.A. merely to avoid NCAA investigators, and if so, why would Seattle want to give him a haven? How can a coach known for his personality, whose strength is in recruiting, developing and motivating young players, have the spiritual brawn to power a bunch of older professionals? He got fired from two NFL teams already -- was nine years of stellar college ball enough to redeem that? And if so, how is he going to pull together the dysfunctional organization that many here believe doomed Mora to failure in the first place?

"Pete Carroll? Really? . . . Isn't he a college coach? A rah-rah guy?" Seattle Times columnist Steve Kelley wrote. "Who's running this team? Barnum? Or Bailey?"

Yet others are giving Carroll credit for striking a deal that should give him the power he needs to turn things around.

"If he truly is a great talent evaluator . . . if players buy into what he's selling . . . if he puts them in a position to be successful individually and as a byproduct, successful as a team, then yes -- then everyone will love him, and all of his 'weakness' will be forgotten or turned into 'strengths.' That's the way it works," Cushing said.

Kevin Calabro devoted most of his show on ESPN 710 Seattle to the Seahawks. "People are cautiously optimistic about this, I think," he said in an interview.

Give Carroll a chance, urges former Seahawks quarterback Brock Huard, also now an ESPN radio host in Seattle.

"At the end of the day, this hire is a good hire," he told listeners. "I don't think you have the kind of success you had at USC without having some very strong skills."

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/13/sports/la-sp-seahaws-reaction13-2010jan13

The Moekid
06-17-2016, 10:59 PM
Why would you fill a page with Pete Carroll articles?

HeadTrip
06-17-2016, 11:16 PM
I'm still of the opinion that there are exactly 0 coaches in the NFL, head or otherwise, that couldn't figure out how to win 4 games with Philip Rivers and filler. Old MM has a lot of work to do to prove to me he is one of the best 32 men in the world for the job, which obviously should be his goal in life.

JoeMcRugby
06-17-2016, 11:20 PM
Why would you fill a page with Pete Carroll articles?

Because of these posts:

Remember when Pete Carroll was a two-time failure who drew derision from virtually everybody from the northeast when he was hired as the Seahawks head coach?

Seems a long time ago, doesn't it? ;)

Pete Carroll has never had concerns about his leadership, game management, or play calling (well there was that one time in a recent SB on the play calling). ;)


Wrongo-o, frozen north frenchman. There were plenty of concerns about his leadership/management at the pro level.

The Moekid
06-17-2016, 11:28 PM
What seems a long time ago is using reality when you are trying to say that Mike McCoy is Pete Carroll.

Because of these posts:

It should have ended with the ChargerFreak post

JoeMcRugby
06-17-2016, 11:33 PM
It should have ended with the ChargerFreak post

I'm not saying that McCoy is Pete Carroll by any means.

What I (and others) have said is that you can't judge a book by its cover (i.e., their initial impression(s) in the NFL). Belichick was absolutely hated in Cleveland as a loser. Same goes for Carroll in Boston & New York.

I am on the fence (at best) when it comes to McCoy. IMO Anything less than a winning season in 2016 = the axe falls the day after the regular season ends.

The Moekid
06-17-2016, 11:43 PM
I'm not saying that McCoy is Pete Carroll by any means.

What I (and others) have said is that you can't judge a book by its cover (i.e., their initial impression(s) in the NFL). Belichick was absolutely hated in Cleveland as a loser. Same goes for Carroll in Boston & New York.

I am on the fence (at best) when it comes to McCoy. IMO Anything less than a winning season in 2016 = the axe the day after the regular season ends.

Fair enough. Results are what matters

Chargerfreak
06-18-2016, 03:13 AM
I'm not saying that McCoy is Pete Carroll by any means.

What I (and others) have said is that you can't judge a book by its cover (i.e., their initial impression(s) in the NFL). Belichick was absolutely hated in Cleveland as a loser. Same goes for Carroll in Boston & New York.

I am on the fence (at best) when it comes to McCoy. IMO Anything less than a winning season in 2016 = the axe falls the day after the regular season ends.

It should have been done at 4-12. It should be done if needed by the halfway point of this year. But they won't. One's lap can get cold without their dog laying in it.

Signed,
Norv Bulldog Neck Turner

frozendisc
06-18-2016, 06:00 AM
I'm not saying that McCoy is Pete Carroll by any means.

What I (and others) have said is that you can't judge a book by its cover (i.e., their initial impression(s) in the NFL). Belichick was absolutely hated in Cleveland as a loser. Same goes for Carroll in Boston & New York.

I am on the fence (at best) when it comes to McCoy. IMO Anything less than a winning season in 2016 = the axe falls the day after the regular season ends.


McCoy has been HC for several years, well past anyone implying a judgement of him is 'judging the book by its cover', and the judgement I have is he is average to poor as a HC.


I acknowledged LTOCB's post providing his insight.

ltinabottle
06-18-2016, 10:50 AM
It's all a journey being a coach in the National Football League. Coach Belichick's time with the Browns has been viewed on NFL films where he coached with a young Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz and Ozzie Newsome. The Browns we're on the brink of contending before Model pulled the plug by moving to Baltimore. He was fired after that season.

Carroll took his lumps at the pro level then experienced a run of success as coach of the Trojans. He honed in on implementing a system of competitive, spirited practices with players. It has worked well since returning to the NFL in particular the Seahawks. One Super Bowl trophy and one play before earning another.

This is MM's first coaching job. It's a matter of time before he moves on...that's if our ownership will pull the plug!:logo

topcat4477
06-18-2016, 11:00 AM
It should have been done at 4-12. It should be done if needed by the halfway point of this year. But they won't. One's lap can get cold without their dog laying in it.

Signed,
Norv Bulldog Neck Turner
lap dog

n.1. A small dog kept as a pet.
2. Informal One eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lap+dog

sonorajim
06-18-2016, 02:31 PM
McCoy has been HC for several years, well past anyone implying a judgement of him is 'judging the book by its cover', and the judgement I have is he is average to poor as a HC.


I acknowledged LTOCB's post providing his insight.
The results he got with our "very weak" roster (per Norv) in 2013 was very good. 2014- avg. 2015 poor. Currently his production per season is avg with the needle pointing down.
His circumstances obviously sucked in all three years. With the current roster of players & staff he has his best chance of reaching the playoffs. If it were my team, I'd see how it goes.

frozendisc
06-18-2016, 09:12 PM
The results he got with our "very weak" roster (per Norv) in 2013 was very good. 2014- avg. 2015 poor. Currently his production per season is avg with the needle pointing down.
His circumstances obviously sucked in all three years. With the current roster of players & staff he has his best chance of reaching the playoffs. If it were my team, I'd see how it goes.

I wasn't referring to the actual record, but that clearly shows average.

Should we call time out, hey let's go for it on 4th and far too much, there is only 30 seconds left and we are down 2 points....we better punt.

While those are complete exaggerations, they do illustrate the issues with MM.....I am certain there are those among us that could come up with specific examples of MM's poor decision making during games.

Average on a great day, poor on just about every other day. By all means, give the guy an extension.....and you all wonder why the Bolts lose.

sonorajim
06-19-2016, 11:15 AM
I wasn't referring to the actual record, but that clearly shows average.

Should we call time out, hey let's go for it on 4th and far too much, there is only 30 seconds left and we are down 2 points....we better punt.

While those are complete exaggerations, they do illustrate the issues with MM.....I am certain there are those among us that could come up with specific examples of MM's poor decision making during games.

Average on a great day, poor on just about every other day. By all means, give the guy an extension.....and you all wonder why the Bolts lose.
I do not disagree that McCoy has made some mistakes with games in progress. He has. Every coach does but it seems to take on greater significance when we lose 9 of 12 one score games. W-L is all that counts in the end. That was not all coaching decisions though.
Reasons/excuses/etc aside, we all want a better W total with a playoff slot and hopefully a Lombardi at the end.
I doubt that you'd take the position that player personnel and assistant coaching staff can't make a difference. I submit the possibility that McCoy's experience over the last three years can help him to make better game-in-progress decisions.
I want to see 2016 played out before I take sides for or against McCoy. I know he'll have made some bad in-game decisions but if the W-L looks great, I'll forgive him. ;)

frozendisc
06-19-2016, 12:23 PM
I do not disagree that McCoy has made some mistakes with games in progress. He has. Every coach does but it seems to take on greater significance when we lose 9 of 12 one score games. W-L is all that counts in the end. That was not all coaching decisions though.
Reasons/excuses/etc aside, we all want a better W total with a playoff slot and hopefully a Lombardi at the end.
I doubt that you'd take the position that player personnel and assistant coaching staff can't make a difference. I submit the possibility that McCoy's experience over the last three years can help him to make better game-in-progress decisions.
I want to see 2016 played out before I take sides for or against McCoy. I know he'll have made some bad in-game decisions but if the W-L looks great, I'll forgive him. ;)


Some people need to be hit with the hammer several times before they recognize it hurts.. C'est la vie

Dha
06-20-2016, 08:44 AM
Some people need to be hit with the hammer several times before they recognize it hurts.. C'est la vie

and some need to be hit with the hammer several years before they recognize it hurts

pacstud
06-20-2016, 09:04 AM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RiveRo0.htm

sonorajim
06-20-2016, 10:16 AM
Some people need to be hit with the hammer several times before they recognize it hurts.. C'est la vie
One bad year = one hammer strike. Telesco (personnel/depth) and fate (injury) held the hammer.
Better coaching by MM might have resulted in 6-10*. It's always nice to win a couple more but it would not have changed anything.
If you believe McCoy doesn't pay attention to areas he can improve, you're not paying attention. He's one of the most detail oriented coaches in the business. There will be remedies in place to avoid bad clock management. Play choices in a given circumstance obviously had a chance to succeed or that would not have been called. Better choices and execution will be attempted. Will they be 100% successful? Most probably, not.
If it's apparent that McCoy's use of the flag an/or clock keeps us out of the playoffs - see ya!
Gametime offensive play calling will be Whisenhunt & Rivers. 2014-15 was Reich & Rivers. MM reviews planning leading up to a game & overall player/play management. PR always has the final say on offensive plays in action.

*3 more wins would have had MM on the same pace as Ron Rivera over his 1st three years. Shucks!

frozendisc
06-20-2016, 12:07 PM
One bad year = one hammer strike. Telesco (personnel/depth) and fate (injury) held the hammer.
Better coaching by MM might have resulted in 6-10*. It's always nice to win a couple more but it would not have changed anything.
If you believe McCoy doesn't pay attention to areas he can improve, you're not paying attention. He's one of the most detail oriented coaches in the business. There will be remedies in place to avoid bad clock management. Play choices in a given circumstance obviously had a chance to succeed or that would not have been called. Better choices and execution will be attempted. Will they be 100% successful? Most probably, not.
If it's apparent that McCoy's use of the flag an/or clock keeps us out of the playoffs - see ya!
Gametime offensive play calling will be Whisenhunt & Rivers. 2014-15 was Reich & Rivers. MM reviews planning leading up to a game & overall player/play management. PR always has the final say on offensive plays in action.

*3 more wins would have had MM on the same pace as Ron Rivera over his 1st three years. Shucks!


The bold above is my point, what we have seen in MM is what we will continue to see.....basically average to poor results.

You roll out a 4-12 disaster and it should be goodbye.

R4PT0R
06-20-2016, 12:40 PM
lap dog

n.1. A small dog kept as a pet.
2. Informal One eager to do another's bidding, especially in order to maintain a position of privilege or favor.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lap+dog

That sounds like McCoy

coach14
06-20-2016, 12:44 PM
The funny thing about the NFL is that no one cares about excuses. I will give him a pass for injuries and a depleted roster last year, but that is a one time pass. We, as a fan base, need to demand more from this franchise. No more excuses, no more mediocrity.

HeadTrip
06-20-2016, 12:46 PM
Are we now trying to delude ourselves into thinking that MM is roughly as good as Rivera? :crazy:

JoeMcRugby
06-20-2016, 01:57 PM
Are we now trying to delude ourselves into thinking that MM is roughly as good as Rivera? :crazy:

Not at all (at least not me), but does this description of Rivera from a Panthers' fan's perspective before the start of the 2015 season (Year 5 of the Rivera era) sound familiar to Chargers fans?

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/3/15/8215371/why-ron-rivera-is-holding-back-the-carolina-panthers-a-diatribe

I'll just list the bullet points and conclusion of the very long article from March 2015:


Why Ron Rivera Is Holding Back The Carolina Panthers: A Diatribe

1. Time Management

2. Ron Rivera will never embrace the Riverboat life! (multiple examples of punting the ball away on 4th & 1)

3. His Record against winning teams (10-25-1)

4. He has been consistently out coached

5. Far too slow to make adjustments

6. Poor talent evaluator

7. Constructed a poor supporting cast

In Conclusion

So we have a head coach that has claimed to have learned from his mistakes over and over yet still repeats them. We have a head coach that has shown little care or capability for in game management, be it clock management, use of time outs, in game adjustments or care for winning strategies and game theory. We have a head coach that is more worried with surrounding himself with friends than competent employees, treating the coaching ranks more like a small town restaurant than a billion dollar national corporation. He has shown himself to be tone deaf to talent on numerous occasions and detrimentally slow to make changes when changes are apparent even to the casual fan. We have a coach that even when given the better roster, advantages in time and health and location finds it hard to win.

I contend, that with the myriad of mistakes Ron Rivera has made, that with a semi-competent coach we would have a .600 record and have advanced further in the playoffs, possibly with three or four trips there. The NFL royalty's fans (Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Dallas, et al) would never be so accepting of Rivera's three losing seasons and back door, back to back postseason visits. Superbowl contenders expect more and if we have a Superbowl contending roster, and I believe we do, Rivera's performance and leadership is highly unacceptable.

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2015/3/15/8215371/why-ron-rivera-is-holding-back-the-carolina-panthers-a-diatribe


And in Year 5 following a 32-32-1 record over his first four mediocre seasons??? I think it went "Boom!!!" if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not expecting the same from MM, but pretty much nobody in Carolina was expecting it from Rivera either.

Totally Bolted
06-20-2016, 02:19 PM
I don't know if MM will survive.
I wonder if I will.

sonorajim
06-20-2016, 02:38 PM
Are we now trying to delude ourselves into thinking that MM is roughly as good as Rivera? :crazy:
Who knows? For my part, I'm definitely not saying MM is as good or is not better. I just want to see how 2016 plays out. Rivera had roughly the same amount of fan support in Car his 1st 4 years there, that's a fact.

sonorajim
06-20-2016, 02:42 PM
{B]The bold above is my point, what we have seen in MM is what we will continue to see..[/B]...basically average to poor results.

You roll out a 4-12 disaster and it should be goodbye. I suspected that that was your opinion. That is what I disagree with. My opinion is that he may make mistakes but that they will not be what we have seen to date. Hopefully he keeps the miscue numbers down.

frozendisc
06-20-2016, 02:57 PM
I suspected that that was your opinion. That is what I disagree with. My opinion is that he may make mistakes but that they will not be what we have seen to date. Hopefully he keeps the miscue numbers down.

I find it interesting that some fans seem to be willing to give a coach a pass, but if this was a player (such as Watt trying to play OC) it is get rid of him now....

You are really ready to accept more mistakes from MM as long as they are different from the ones he has previously shown ? That is some rationalization...

charger1_sj
06-20-2016, 03:16 PM
If PR goes down early in the year and we have another horrible W-L record he may survive one more year. Otherwise a losing record and he's history.

21and500
06-20-2016, 03:41 PM
I find it interesting that some fans seem to be willing to give a coach a pass, but if this was a player (such as Watt trying to play OC) it is get rid of him now....

You are really ready to accept more mistakes from MM as long as they are different from the ones he has previously shown ? That is some rationalization...

I don't disagree and I certainly am not a MM fan, but you have to take into consideration the nature of the positions

Headcoaches vs. players

being a headcoach is complicated because so much of what people analyze is dependent on several other people and circumstances.

vs. a player, its pretty cut and dry. They may/may not be productive, but can they play, do they project to be worth the investment that you (as a club) can afford?

I would argue that regardless of how many injuries a team has endured, you can make a business decision on a headcoach after 3 years.

at this point, my hope is that MM simply improves under the support of whisenhunt.

frozendisc
06-20-2016, 03:53 PM
I don't disagree and I certainly am not a MM fan, but you have to take into consideration the nature of the positions

Headcoaches vs. players

being a headcoach is complicated because so much of what people analyze is dependent on several other people and circumstances.

vs. a player, its pretty cut and dry. They may/may not be productive, but can they play, do they project to be worth the investment that you (as a club) can afford?

I would argue that regardless of how many injuries a team has endured, you can make a business decision on a headcoach after 3 years.

at this point, my hope is that MM simply improves under the support of whisenhunt.


Perhaps the bold above shines some light on the true issue....the Bolts have made a business decision, one that sees them retaining a very marginal HC. After three years, I have seen enough to conclude MM is more a part of the problem versus the solution.

Totally Bolted
06-20-2016, 04:10 PM
I find it interesting that some fans seem to be willing to give a coach a pass, but if this was a player (such as Watt trying to play OC) it is get rid of him now....

You are really ready to accept more mistakes from MM as long as they are different from the ones he has previously shown ? That is some rationalization...


Where the PO loses Marty's fault or the players?

Just curious.

I think MM got the pass for several reasons.
1) injuries and poor depth
2) never his coaching staff
3) first time coach

For me, every sitiuation is different. MM I don't think has had a clean shot. The hurdles have been larger than normal. has he made mistakes? sure. I guess, those haven't been enough yet. If he continues to not learn this year, then like all first time coaches you decide either he needs a little more time or you decide he needs to gain it with some one else.

frozendisc
06-20-2016, 04:36 PM
Where the PO loses Marty's fault or the players?

Just curious.

I think MM got the pass for several reasons.
1) injuries and poor depth
2) never his coaching staff
3) first time coach

For me, every sitiuation is different. MM I don't think has had a clean shot. The hurdles have been larger than normal. has he made mistakes? sure. I guess, those haven't been enough yet. If he continues to not learn this year, then like all first time coaches you decide either he needs a little more time or you decide he needs to gain it with some one else.


I would say it wasn't Marty's or the players. The talent was there, and Marty was a good leader, but they just didn't get the luck required to win. It happens every year, as well coached very talented teams fall to the wayside in the PO's.

I see the talent growing on the Bolts (especially the defense), but see a very poor leader in McCoy. Leadership can come from other sources, and the players will look within themselves for that leadership I would guess, but to overcome poor leadership out of the HC is a challenge. If the Bolts get a big dose of luck, such as staying reasonably healthy, and their talent blooms, they might be a PO team.

SuperBowlBolts
06-20-2016, 05:05 PM
I would say it wasn't Marty's or the players. The talent was there, and Marty was a good leader, but they just didn't get the luck required to win. It happens every year, as well coached very talented teams fall to the wayside in the PO's.

I see the talent growing on the Bolts (especially the defense), but see a very poor leader in McCoy. Leadership can come from other sources, and the players will look within themselves for that leadership I would guess, but to overcome poor leadership out of the HC is a challenge. If the Bolts get a big dose of luck, such as staying reasonably healthy, and their talent blooms, they might be a PO team.

Sorry, but Marty just did not coach well in the POs. His track record speaks for itself. The one year he should have stuck with "Martyball" he didnt. Everyone makes a big deal about the Marlon McCree fumble, as they should. But a forgotten fact is that LT was well being LT in the first half of the Pats during his MVP season.....only to be used a decoy for the second half. He only got the ball what 7 more times? Instead Marty wanted to be fancy and throw the ball/go for it on 4th and long etc.

charger1_sj
06-20-2016, 05:57 PM
Sorry, but Marty just did not coach well in the POs. His track record speaks for itself. The one year he should have stuck with "Martyball" he didnt. Everyone makes a big deal about the Marlon McCree fumble, as they should. But a forgotten fact is that LT was well being LT in the first half of the Pats during his MVP season.....only to be used a decoy for the second half. He only got the ball what 7 more times? Instead Marty wanted to be fancy and throw the ball/go for it on 4th and long etc.

4th and long was on the very first possession in the first half. It ended up being costly. But there was far more player mistakes that were costly besides McCree's play. There were a bunch of dropped passes, Parker's muffed punt, Hart's dropped interception, head butt for a penalty and more. Marty contributed but he wasn't the major contributor, those were on the players.

Marty was 5-13 or something close to that all time in the PO. One guy broke down all the losses and 3 out of 13 came down to Marty. The other 10 were teams not good enough or player mistakes.

MM is no Marty. Marty won over 200 games with three, four if you count Washington, franchises. MM has losing record with one. He has long ways to go.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-20-2016, 07:21 PM
4th and long was on the very first possession in the first half. It ended up being costly. But there was far more player mistakes that were costly besides McCree's play. There were a bunch of dropped passes, Parker's muffed punt, Hart's dropped interception, head butt for a penalty and more. Marty contributed but he wasn't the major contributor, those were on the players.

Marty was 5-13 or something close to that all time in the PO. One guy broke down all the losses and 3 out of 13 came down to Marty. The other 10 were teams not good enough or player mistakes.

MM is no Marty. Marty won over 200 games with three, four if you count Washington, franchises. MM has losing record with one. He has long ways to go.

You skipped SBB's main point. If Marty hadn't abandoned LT in the second half, those plays you are describing wouldn't have happened. Dropped passes? Who cares when you can run the ball at will?

The only guy on the field that day who could stop LT was Marty. And he did.

topcat4477
06-20-2016, 07:24 PM
4th and long was on the very first possession in the first half. It ended up being costly. But there was far more player mistakes that were costly besides McCree's play. There were a bunch of dropped passes, Parker's muffed punt, Hart's dropped interception, head butt for a penalty and more. Marty contributed but he wasn't the major contributor, those were on the players.

Marty was 5-13 or something close to that all time in the PO. One guy broke down all the losses and 3 out of 13 came down to Marty. The other 10 were teams not good enough or player mistakes.

MM is no Marty. Marty won over 200 games with three, four if you count Washington, franchises. MM has losing record with one. He has long ways to go.

Marty generally got his teams well prepared and amped up for games during the regular season. Then, in the playoffs, it's true that Marty was plagued by some bonehead blunders by some of his players. But he also hurt himself with some questionable calls and playing "Martyball." MM, on the other hand, seems to not quite get his team as well prepared and amped up as Marty did. Having Whiz on board helps a lot though. Jury is still out on MM in the playoffs. This is a real key year for MM...if he can't post a winning season with the talent on this team, and if we stay relatively injury-free, I think he has to go...

woodeye2000
06-20-2016, 08:17 PM
Norv says "what about me?"

perryao
06-20-2016, 08:54 PM
If PR goes down early in the year and we have another horrible W-L record he may survive one more year. Otherwise a losing record and he's history.
I'm with you on this. Dude deserves this year but, barring something catastrophic, he has to win to earn another year. imo.

perryao
06-20-2016, 09:00 PM
Perhaps the bold above shines some light on the true issue....the Bolts have made a business decision, one that sees them retaining a very marginal HC. After three years, I have seen enough to conclude MM is more a part of the problem versus the solution.

I believe the Chargers are being reasonable. They are looking at the roster, the injuries, and the rest of the league and believe that MM has done a good enough job to warrant one more year. I agree with the move.

perryao
06-20-2016, 09:18 PM
Where the PO loses Marty's fault or the players?

Just curious.

I think MM got the pass for several reasons.
1) injuries and poor depth
2) never his coaching staff
3) first time coach

For me, every sitiuation is different. MM I don't think has had a clean shot. The hurdles have been larger than normal. has he made mistakes? sure. I guess, those haven't been enough yet. If he continues to not learn this year, then like all first time coaches you decide either he needs a little more time or you decide he needs to gain it with some one else.

I believe that Marty's record is at least partially the fault of his coaching philosophy. That was to play a conservative game, keep the score close, and have a chance to win the game at the end.

The problem with that philosophy is it too often leaves things to chance, or "luck. You are right, luck had a big part in Marty's poor playoff record. But being in the position to allow luck to be a factor was, many times, Marty's philosophical fault.

Now give enough time, I believe the "luck" would have evened out. But how long? The law of big numbers doesn't always happen within a coaching, or even a human, lifetime.

perryao
06-20-2016, 09:24 PM
4th and long was on the very first possession in the first half. It ended up being costly.It was the third drive. Good grief- what was he thinking???
But there was far more player mistakes that were costly besides McCree's play. There were a bunch of dropped passes, Parker's muffed punt, Hart's dropped interception, head butt for a penalty and more. Marty contributed but he wasn't the major contributor, those were on the players.I would agree. People forget the other mistakes. Good grief. Terrible.
Marty was 5-13 or something close to that all time in the PO. One guy broke down all the losses and 3 out of 13 came down to Marty. The other 10 were teams not good enough or player mistakes. Meh. That doesn't mean much. You can probably find someone that find all 13 were Marty's "fault".

MM is no Marty. Marty won over 200 games with three, four if you count Washington, franchises. MM has losing record with one. He has long ways to go.No. MM's not Marty. Yet. And probably never will be. He has a chance though. We'll see.

perryao
06-20-2016, 09:37 PM
You skipped SBB's main point. If Marty hadn't abandoned LT in the second half, those plays you are describing wouldn't have happened. Dropped passes? Who cares when you can run the ball at will?

The only guy on the field that day who could stop LT was Marty. And he did.
Meh. You may be right. I'm not so sure. BB was selling out to stop LT. If Marty continued to run we might all be complaining about him being to conservative if the sellout was successful.

Hit a few of those dropped balls and we're still celebrating our first SB under Marty, imo. One of the three, or six, he would eventually have won.

Chargerfreak
06-21-2016, 09:16 AM
Meh. You may be right. I'm not so sure. BB was selling out to stop LT. If Marty continued to run we might all be complaining about him being to conservative if the sellout was successful.

Hit a few of those dropped balls and we're still celebrating our first SB under Marty, imo. One of the three, or six, he would eventually have won.

Approved !!!!! :Cheers:

R4PT0R
06-21-2016, 09:17 AM
Sign this kid already !!!!

charger1_sj
06-21-2016, 11:13 AM
It was the third drive. Good grief- what was he thinking???
I would agree. People forget the other mistakes. Good grief. Terrible.
Meh. That doesn't mean much. You can probably find someone that find all 13 were Marty's "fault".

No. MM's not Marty. Yet. And probably never will be. He has a chance though. We'll see.

He lost his mind.

The guy writing the article wasn't exactly a Marty fan. I thought he was being objective in the matter. He looked at the real circumstances and gave an opinion. I'm not sure what it means besides being one man's opinion.

If MM flops in SD will any other team give him the opportunity again? I'm not so sure.

Totally Bolted
06-21-2016, 01:49 PM
I should have known better to bring up Marty.

thread derail.....

charger1_sj
06-21-2016, 01:58 PM
I should have known better to bring up Marty.

thread derail.....

All roads lead to Rome.................

SuperBowlBolts
06-21-2016, 03:26 PM
Meh. You may be right. I'm not so sure. BB was selling out to stop LT. If Marty continued to run we might all be complaining about him being to conservative if the sellout was successful.

Hit a few of those dropped balls and we're still celebrating our first SB under Marty, imo. One of the three, or six, he would eventually have won.

He was selling out? But LT was still being LT, the only team to really stop him that year we're the Seahawks IIRC

Either way back to MM, I don't think he last another year if we win 5 or less

Totally Bolted
06-21-2016, 04:10 PM
He lost his mind.

The guy writing the article wasn't exactly a Marty fan. I thought he was being objective in the matter. He looked at the real circumstances and gave an opinion. I'm not sure what it means besides being one man's opinion.

If MM flops in SD will any other team give him the opportunity again? I'm not so sure.


I think he gets another gig. First time coaches usually get on eomre shot someplace. The NFL needs new coaches. All the old guys are just that, old and getting older.

frozendisc
06-21-2016, 04:17 PM
He lost his mind.

The guy writing the article wasn't exactly a Marty fan. I thought he was being objective in the matter. He looked at the real circumstances and gave an opinion. I'm not sure what it means besides being one man's opinion.

If MM flops in SD will any other team give him the opportunity again? I'm not so sure.

I think he gets another gig. First time coaches usually get on eomre shot someplace. The NFL needs new coaches. All the old guys are just that, old and getting older.



I am still trying to get by the "if MM flops in SD" part......is there really any question MM has been a flop in SD ?

charger1_sj
06-21-2016, 05:23 PM
I am still trying to get by the "if MM flops in SD" part......is there really any question MM has been a flop in SD ?

Well he is the HC right now and lets for entertainment's sake say he wins a SB. Would he be a flop then?

Disclaimer:
Now remember this is for CMB ENTERTAINMENT only, I'm not making any predictions or even suggestions.

frozendisc
06-21-2016, 06:11 PM
Well he is the HC right now and lets for entertainment's sake say he wins a SB. Would he be a flop then?

Disclaimer:
Now remember this is for CMB ENTERTAINMENT only, I'm not making any predictions or even suggestions.

Let's say the Sharks won the Cup while we are being ridiculous.....


Without involving any 'possible wins', MM is a flop as the HC in SD.

JPPT1974
06-21-2016, 06:51 PM
Well the Sharks did not win the cup. But there, McCoy needs to win a playoff game in order to keep his job or make the playoffs.

mdsd77
06-21-2016, 06:56 PM
O and 6 in the division - what a disgrace

week 9 he is out, unless he is dominating

Anwar
06-21-2016, 10:10 PM
I am still trying to get by the "if MM flops in SD" part......is there really any question MM has been a flop in SD ?


So far he has been no good as a head coach

sonorajim
06-22-2016, 08:54 AM
Let's say the Sharks won the Cup while we are being ridiculous.....


Without involving any 'possible wins', MM is a flop as the HC in SD.
In 2013 McCoy was a huge success as Norv's replacement, getting our 1st playoff win since 2008 and that against Cincy in Cincy when they had not lost a home game all season.

2015 sucked. If SD backs that up with another sub .500 season, MM is out.

HeadTrip
06-22-2016, 09:54 AM
In 2013 McCoy was a huge success as Norv's replacement, getting our 1st playoff win since 2008 and that against Cincy in Cincy when they had not lost a home game all season.

2015 sucked. If SD backs that up with another sub .500 season, MM is out.

9-7 and being the beneficiary of the annual Bengals playoff collapse is hardly what I'd call "hugely successful".

R4PT0R
06-22-2016, 10:06 AM
McCoy is a terrible head coach it's pretty clear. We must somehow overcome his ineptitude. We can hope that he will stay away from most aspects of the operation of the football club. Let's also hope that he keeps his silky soft hands out of the in-game management as well. Defer to Wiz, defer to Wiz, defer to the Wiz!!!!

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 10:06 AM
Let's say the Sharks won the Cup while we are being ridiculous.....


Without involving any 'possible wins', MM is a flop as the HC in SD.

See this is why I put in the disclaimer.

But unfortunately he's still the coach. So he's a flop in the making. Once he's done with the Chargers he'll be a legit flop.

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 11:26 AM
See this is why I put in the disclaimer.

But unfortunately he's still the coach. So he's a flop in the making. Once he's done with the Chargers he'll be a legit flop.


now that is witty.
Got a good chuckle..

sonorajim
06-22-2016, 02:30 PM
9-7 and being the beneficiary of the annual Bengals playoff collapse is hardly what I'd call "hugely successful".
Make any excuse you like for winning, it's preferable to not winning in the postseason.

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 02:33 PM
Make any excuse you like for winning, it's preferable to not winning in the postseason.

Anytime you beat the favored team in their house in the PO's.... it's a good thing

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 03:25 PM
In 2013 McCoy was a huge success as Norv's replacement, getting our 1st playoff win since 2008 and that against Cincy in Cincy when they had not lost a home game all season.

2015 sucked. If SD backs that up with another sub .500 season, MM is out.


You need to back away from the Kool Aid.......

"huge success" you say ? The team backed into the PO's, won a game against a consistent choker team, then got smoked....

4-12 should get you fired every single time.

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 03:40 PM
You need to back away from the Kool Aid.......

"huge success" you say ? The team backed into the PO's, won a game against a consistent choker team, then got smoked....

4-12 should get you fired every single time.

We should have fired Marty when he finished 4-12. We didn't and look what happened, we fired him when he finished 14-2. There is a reason we never won a championship.

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 03:42 PM
You need to back away from the Kool Aid.......

"huge success" you say ? The team backed into the PO's, won a game against a consistent choker team, then got smoked....

4-12 should get you fired every single time.

If the bengals were a consistent choker and you are using that as an excuse for the bolts win, how is it not an acheivement if the bolts were/are a bad team with a bad coach?

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 03:45 PM
If the bengals were a consistent choker and you are using that as an excuse for the bolts win, how is it not an acheivement if the bolts were/are a bad team with a bad coach?

Maybe Cincy is worse.

When is the last time they won a PO game?

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 03:52 PM
If the bengals were a consistent choker and you are using that as an excuse for the bolts win, how is it not an acheivement if the bolts were/are a bad team with a bad coach?

Oh, it is an achievement......regardless of which team had won.

That win doesn't eclipse the incompetence displayed consistently by the HC.....

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 03:57 PM
Maybe Cincy is worse.

When is the last time they won a PO game?


Not denying anything. The Bolts have been bad. MM is a first time coach. How many get it right out the gate? He is no exception.

My issue is the arguement.
Backed in or not, they made it in. Since when does that not matter?
Cinci was favored. It was in their house. Chokers or not, the bolts backed in and beat them. I think that is a good thing. What's argueable is whether MM gets any credit for it. To be honest, I don't think he should.

I didn't like 4-12 either, but to say that is a firing everytime is also not true. It's a case by case. Everytime.
In this case, I think the Bolts are giving him the benefit of the doubt, that there were too many obsticles for anyone let alone a first time (all be it 3rd yr) coach, do much better.

I hope they are right.
But as you pointed out before, they did fire a 12-4 coach. :crazy:

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 04:14 PM
Not denying anything. The Bolts have been bad. MM is a first time coach. How many get it right out the gate? He is no exception.

My issue is the arguement.
Backed in or not, they made it in. Since when does that not matter?
Cinci was favored. It was in their house. Chokers or not, the bolts backed in and beat them. I think that is a good thing. What's argueable is whether MM gets any credit for it. To be honest, I don't think he should.

I didn't like 4-12 either, but to say that is a firing everytime is also not true. It's a case by case. Everytime.
In this case, I think the Bolts are giving him the benefit of the doubt, that there were too many obsticles for anyone let alone a first time (all be it 3rd yr) coach, do much better.

I hope they are right.
But as you pointed out before, they did fire a 12-4 coach. :crazy:


At what point is the 'first time coach' out the window. Guy has coached three full seasons, you lose rookie status after one. He isn't a first time coach at all, he is just a HC still coaching the first team to give him a HC position.

My issues with MM is he is still making similar mistakes in year three that were made in years one and two. There simply is no growth....in fact his results show he is getting worse. The challenges he has had to face are faced by most HC's in every league, MM leadership in facing these challenges has just been poor, which is the real problem. Yea, MM has won some games, but even a rudderless ship floats......

4-12 should not be acceptable to the Franchise, ever, which is why it is a firing event every time. I get the Bolts ownership has little clue about how to set high standards, high expectations, but one can still voice a hope for those attributes to show up one day.

HeadTrip
06-22-2016, 04:28 PM
Make any excuse you like for winning, it's preferable to not winning in the postseason.

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm saying I disagree that was a huge accomplishment. I don't think that season showed enough to give MM a pass for the previous two. There is no reason for a Rivers led team to win 4 games IMO.

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 04:29 PM
At what point is the 'first time coach' out the window. Guy has coached three full seasons, you lose rookie status after one. He isn't a first time coach at all, he is just a HC still coaching the first team to give him a HC position.

My issues with MM is he is still making similar mistakes in year three that were made in years one and two. There simply is no growth....in fact his results show he is getting worse. The challenges he has had to face are faced by most HC's in every league, MM leadership in facing these challenges has just been poor, which is the real problem. Yea, MM has won some games, but even a rudderless ship floats......

4-12 should not be acceptable to the Franchise, ever, which is why it is a firing event every time. I get the Bolts ownership has little clue about how to set high standards, high expectations, but one can still voice a hope for those attributes to show up one day.

Were the results worse due to MM or to a team with injuries, low depth, and much improved division? I'm not convinced its MM. You see it different. I can respect that.
He is the Bolts coach. Till that changes I hope he takes us to the SB. I'm going to support him. How long? I guess that depends on how right or wrong you turn out to be. :D

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 04:36 PM
Not denying anything. The Bolts have been bad. MM is a first time coach. How many get it right out the gate? He is no exception.

My issue is the arguement.
Backed in or not, they made it in. Since when does that not matter?
Cinci was favored. It was in their house. Chokers or not, the bolts backed in and beat them. I think that is a good thing. What's argueable is whether MM gets any credit for it. To be honest, I don't think he should.

I didn't like 4-12 either, but to say that is a firing everytime is also not true. It's a case by case. Everytime.
In this case, I think the Bolts are giving him the benefit of the doubt, that there were too many obsticles for anyone let alone a first time (all be it 3rd yr) coach, do much better.

I hope they are right.
But as you pointed out before, they did fire a 12-4 coach. :crazy:

Well take this one step at a time. He appeared to get it right out of the gate as he took them to the POs and won one. Unfortunately that appears to have been Norv's team and the contribution of "The Whiz". So I think your comment about MM not getting the credit may be right on.

Can't say who is right. Most of the time the Charger brass gets it wrong. So history is not on their side.

I think even with all the injuries going 0-6 in the division and 4-12 overall is not acceptable, nor is it reflective of the players on this team.

They fired a 14-2 coach. Details are important. They may have fired a 12-4 coach, but I don't remember that one.

Anwar
06-22-2016, 04:37 PM
Were the results worse due to MM or to a team with injuries, low depth, and much improved division? I'm not convinced its MM. You see it different. I can respect that.
He is the Bolts coach. Till that changes I hope he takes us to the SB. I'm going to support him. How long? I guess that depends on how right or wrong you turn out to be. :D

Injuries are a cheap cop out of a lame excuse. Even when there were times some players were injured, they actually had some chances to win, and they just choked. If the head coach couldn't coach and will his players to get out of being a bunch of screwups, that's on him.

If the team has another crappy season, it may be time to let him fry.

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 04:39 PM
Were the results worse due to MM or to a team with injuries, low depth, and much improved division? I'm not convinced its MM. You see it different. I can respect that.
He is the Bolts coach. Till that changes I hope he takes us to the SB. I'm going to support him. How long? I guess that depends on how right or wrong you turn out to be. :D

The real question is: Could the results have been better if the performance from the HC was better ? I say unequivocally YES......

MM is a problem, but just one of the many that can usually be found on teams with 4-12 records. I cheer for the team, and would be happy seeing MM holding up the trophy they give you for winning the SB, but I really do not expect to see that happen.

Anwar
06-22-2016, 04:40 PM
One more thing to counter the lame excuse regarding injuries. The last time the Packers went to the Super Bowl, they had key injuries to impact players, yet the team went on into the players all the way to the SuperBowl and win it. Mike McCarthy coached his team well to get them there despite the challenges.

Anwar
06-22-2016, 04:42 PM
The real question is: Could the results have been better if the performance from the HC was better ? I say unequivocally YES......

MM is a problem, but just one of the many that can usually be found on teams with 4-12 records. I cheer for the team, and would be happy seeing MM holding up the trophy they give you for winning the SB, but I really do not expect to see that happen.


My expectations are pretty much low at this point because I still see them as a team that somehow finds a way to lose in the worse way. I want to be proven wrong, but the fact is, what I mentioned has been the team's m. o.

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 04:43 PM
The real question is: Could the results have been better if the performance from the HC was better ? I say unequivocally YES......

MM is a problem, but just one of the many that can usually be found on teams with 4-12 records. I cheer for the team, and would be happy seeing MM holding up the trophy they give you for winning the SB, but I really do not expect to see that happen.

At this point I'd settle for beating the Raiders and a post season appearance.

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 04:45 PM
My expectations are pretty much low at this point because I still see them as a team that somehow finds a way to lose in the worse way. I want to be proven wrong, but the fact is, what I mentioned has been the team's m. o.

The bold above is what teams with poor leadership do......

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 04:53 PM
At this point I'd settle for beating the Raiders and a post season appearance.

Lost, disorganized, incompetent.....

Those are descriptive words that come to mind when thinking about last season.

I hope those words cannot be used to describe how this season goes....

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 04:53 PM
Well take this one step at a time. He appeared to get it right out of the gate as he took them to the POs and won one. Unfortunately that appears to have been Norv's team and the contribution of "The Whiz". So I think your comment about MM not getting the credit may be right on.

Can't say who is right. Most of the time the Charger brass gets it wrong. So history is not on their side.

I think even with all the injuries going 0-6 in the division and 4-12 overall is not acceptable, nor is it reflective of the players on this team.

They fired a 14-2 coach. Details are important. They may have fired a 12-4 coach, but I don't remember that one.

14-2 is correct. Miss typed
Not sure I agree 4-12 is not reflective. Most of the losses were single possession if I remember correctly. I just can't separate the blame yet.

Anwar
06-22-2016, 05:17 PM
The bold above is what teams with poor leadership do......


Which pretty much explains what McCoy is at this rate. Not to mention Telesco and Dean. Especially since Dean sat on his rich &&& and did nothing but watch everything unfold.

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 05:19 PM
14-2 is correct. Miss typed
Not sure I agree 4-12 is not reflective. Most of the losses were single possession if I remember correctly. I just can't separate the blame yet.

Yes you do and that makes it even more difficult to take. Winning half of those would have landed us another 9-7 season or better and it could have happened. That's where good coaching or lack of matters.

If we had lost most by double digits it would also point to a serious problem with the personnel. I'm not saying the team is loaded with talent, but it's certainly is better than 4-12, with or without all the injuries.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:27 PM
You need to back away from the Kool Aid.......

"huge success" you say ? The team backed into the PO's, won a game against a consistent choker team, then got smoked....

4-12 should get you fired every single time.

You may be right, the playoffs and a Wild Card round win may not be a "Huge success". However, you are wrong to say the Chargers got "smoked" in the following game. It was 24-17 and the Chargers had them on the ropes. Manning converted a 3 and somewhat long to ice the game or the Chargers would've had a chance to tie the game.

And, I disagree- 4-12 shouldn't get you fired every single time.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:28 PM
We should have fired Marty when he finished 4-12. We didn't and look what happened, we fired him when he finished 14-2. There is a reason we never won a championship.

Good grief. Not again.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:30 PM
Well take this one step at a time. He appeared to get it right out of the gate as he took them to the POs and won one. Unfortunately that appears to have been Norv's team and the contribution of "The Whiz". So I think your comment about MM not getting the credit may be right on.

Can't say who is right. Most of the time the Charger brass gets it wrong. So history is not on their side.

I think even with all the injuries going 0-6 in the division and 4-12 overall is not acceptable, nor is it reflective of the players on this team.

They fired a 14-2 coach. Details are important. They may have fired a 12-4 coach, but I don't remember that one.Come on man. Just stop.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:40 PM
Injuries are a cheap cop out of a lame excuse.No. It isn't.
Even when there were times some players were injured, they actually had some chances to win, and they just choked.Or maybe they didn't have the depth to compete because of injuries? You seem to think there should be some miracle elixir the coach can give the backups that will allow them to play at a higher level. Or maybe motivate them a little more so they can play above their head? Or maybe draw up some play schematics that will hide all the backups deficiencies? Come on man.
If the head coach couldn't coach and will his players to get out of being a bunch of screwups, that's on him.
Good grief.
If the team has another crappy season, it may be time to let him fry.
At least I agree with you on this.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:44 PM
The real question is: Could the results have been better if the performance from the HC was better ? I say unequivocally YES...... Of course. But how much better? Certainly not enough to make that big of a difference. The Chargers would've had to win 5 more games to even sniff the playoffs.

MM is a problem, but just one of the many that can usually be found on teams with 4-12 records. I cheer for the team, and would be happy seeing MM holding up the trophy they give you for winning the SB, but I really do not expect to see that happen.
You're probably right. But you could say that about a majority of NFL coaches. Heck, even Don Coryell never even got to a SB.

perryao
06-22-2016, 05:46 PM
One more thing to counter the lame excuse regarding injuries. The last time the Packers went to the Super Bowl, they had key injuries to impact players, yet the team went on into the players all the way to the SuperBowl and win it. Mike McCarthy coached his team well to get them there despite the challenges.Good grief.

Totally Bolted
06-22-2016, 05:50 PM
Yes you do and that makes it even more difficult to take. Winning half of those would have landed us another 9-7 season or better and it could have happened. That's where good coaching or lack of matters.

If we had lost most by double digits it would also point to a serious problem with the personnel. I'm not saying the team is loaded with talent, but it's certainly is better than 4-12, with or without all the injuries.


that's where i mention I can't separate the blame yet.
I get many feel the close game is on the coach. I think players are responsible. At least 50%. Execution out weighs coaching IMO.

charger1_sj
06-22-2016, 05:58 PM
that's where i mention I can't separate the blame yet.
I get many feel the close game is on the coach. I think players are responsible. At least 50%. Execution out weighs coaching IMO.

Time management, play calling, bad decisions. That's on the coaching not the players. Did we have good game plans? Was the team prepared? Was the coaching staff able to fix repeated problems? These were all questions than can be answered in the negative and reflect on the coaching not the players.

Of course ultimately the players are the guys on the field and they are responsible for execution, no argument there.

frozendisc
06-22-2016, 06:10 PM
that's where i mention I can't separate the blame yet.
I get many feel the close game is on the coach. I think players are responsible. At least 50%. Execution out weighs coaching IMO.

Players exceed their normal performance levels by being inspired to do so by a strong HC...... The weakest aspect of MM is what I perceive to be poor leadership skills, he simply doesn't inspire his players to greater levels.

Throw Back
06-22-2016, 06:34 PM
At this point it is hard to say if TT is more to blame than MM. Most likely a combination of poor performance by both. TT has had alot of misses in the draft and free agency.

HeadTrip
06-22-2016, 07:43 PM
No. It isn't.
Or maybe they didn't have the depth to compete because of injuries? You seem to think there should be some miracle elixir the coach can give the backups that will allow them to play at a higher level. Or maybe motivate them a little more so they can play above their head? Or maybe draw up some play schematics that will hide all the backups deficiencies? Come on man.
Good grief.

At least I agree with you on this.

I think that when a team doesn't have as much talent on the field, a coach needs to get more creative to put guys in position to succeed. A couple of exotic formations here and there, taking a few more chances, trick plays, ect. If anything, MM got more conservative. Wiz should help, and I know Reich is a popular scapegoat, but it's MM's team and he failed to correct his OC when he was in over his head. Besides, if MM needs to be propped up by his coordinators he isn't HC material.

Anyway, the point is that as limited as our personnel was last year, I don't think an argument can be made that he got the best out of them.

sonorajim
06-22-2016, 09:31 PM
Players exceed their normal performance levels by being inspired to do so by a strong HC...... The weakest aspect of MM is what I perceive to be poor leadership skills, he simply doesn't inspire his players to greater levels. How do you know he didn't? ;) Could be the guys on the field sucked and he was all that kept them in games. 12 of 16 games were decided by 8 points or less. :Cheers:

ltinabottle
06-22-2016, 10:07 PM
The only way to know how how MM teaches and leads is to get NFL Films to film Coach McCoy in the meeting room, field and even away from work. HBO Hard Knocks anyone? I think this was posed as a question to TT. He was reluctant to give that much access.

That way we are not guessing or surmising how bad a leader MM is...we can see it first hand.

We're all football fans and with off season down time have watched current and past NFL coaches on the NFL Network. I like watching how Bill Parcell's motivates players individually and collectively. They had a great moment of him specifically teaching a player how to catch a ball on a punt. Great communicator and more so he isn't afraid hurt players feelings. Players hate him during the time they play for him but grow to endear themselves to him once their careers are over. That's pretty special to create that type of bond with a player. Parcell's had leadership down in spades.

Belichick as private as he is with the media has given full access to his life and career. Dude's work ethic day to day leading to Sunday's is incredible and his way of leading meetings and implementing schemes with players and coaches is brilliant. He leaves nothing to chance when preparing his teams during the season. He isn't perfect but we have all seen his results over the past decade.

Coach Walsh...same thing great teacher and innovator. As demanding as he is on himself, he is as demanding towards his players. When does camp begin...think we are all chomping at the bit for some football.

frozendisc
06-23-2016, 05:30 AM
How do you know he didn't? ;) Could be the guys on the field sucked and he was all that kept them in games. 12 of 16 games were decided by 8 points or less. :Cheers:

I do not 'know' it, but it is what I perceive it to be based off of his other mistakes that are known. It can be deduced to a certain degree from his interviews as well I suppose.

Chargerfreak
06-23-2016, 05:36 AM
How do you know he didn't? ;) Could be the guys on the field sucked and he was all that kept them in games. 12 of 16 games were decided by 8 points or less. :Cheers:

It starts with stopping the run. Run offense, Oline, blah blah bloo, blah.
It starts with stopping the run. Priority 1, and priority 2 as well. You cannot week after week after week have running backs running amok on our defense.

frozendisc
06-23-2016, 05:44 AM
It starts with stopping the run. Run offense, Oline, blah blah bloo, blah.
It starts with stopping the run. Priority 1, and priority 2 as well. You cannot week after week after week have running backs running amok on our defense.

It might be nice to actually be able to run the ball as well as be able to stop other teams.

Boltup90
06-23-2016, 06:20 AM
It might be nice to actually be able to run the ball as well as be able to stop other teams.

It doesnt sit well with me that in week one we'll see the likes of Jamaal Charles, Charcandrick West, and Knile Davis on one side; Dontari Poe, Justin Houston, Dee Ford and Tamba Hali on the other...

In their house. :eek:

Totally Bolted
06-23-2016, 07:54 AM
It might be nice to actually be able to run the ball as well as be able to stop other teams.


I totally thought he was going to go there too.

But that would destroy his Gordon man crush love, wouldn't it?

sonorajim
06-23-2016, 08:14 AM
It starts with stopping the run. Run offense, Oline, blah blah bloo, blah.
It starts with stopping the run. Priority 1, and priority 2 as well. You cannot week after week after week have running backs running amok on our defense.
We got better over the 2015 season with Perryman on the field.
This year looks far more promising with adds like Mebane, Bosa and our young front seven depth.

ps: OL was easily our biggest problem. We were the 21st in points allowed, including points scored off offensive turnovers. 26th in points scored. We couldn't do anything with the ball when we had it.

Denver Mike
06-23-2016, 12:20 PM
Can't stand McCoy. His departure was one of my favorite FO moves in recent years.

If he has another losing season and San Diego still keeps him, this franchise doesn't deserve to win anything.

Totally Bolted
06-23-2016, 01:01 PM
Can't stand McCoy. His departure was one of my favorite FO moves in recent years.

If he has another losing season and San Diego still keeps him, this franchise doesn't deserve to win anything.


Your late to the party.


But a Franchise that cheats the salary cap and who knows what else does?


imjustask'n

perryao
06-23-2016, 01:47 PM
I think that when a team doesn't have as much talent on the field, a coach needs to get more creative to put guys in position to succeed. A couple of exotic formations here and there, taking a few more chances, trick plays, ect. If anything, MM got more conservative. Wiz should help, and I know Reich is a popular scapegoat, but it's MM's team and he failed to correct his OC when he was in over his head. Besides, if MM needs to be propped up by his coordinators he isn't HC material.I think you do the exact opposite. When outmanned, which the Chargers were in almost all of their games after the first few, you should be more conservative. Marty S, one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game would agree. Don't put Wiz in the "exotic, take more chances, trick plays" group. He isn't there.

Anyway, the point is that as limited as our personnel was last year, I don't think an argument can be made that he got the best out of them.I disagree. Obviously. The Chargers were in most of the games they lost. People look at it as a shortcoming that they couldn't pull out a few more wins. I think it's amazing they were able to compete as well as they did. Heck, they couldn't even put PR under center because their oline sucked so bad.

perryao
06-23-2016, 01:48 PM
Can't stand McCoy. His departure was one of my favorite FO moves in recent years.

If he has another losing season and San Diego still keeps him, this franchise doesn't deserve to win anything.

If he has another losing season, barring something catastrophic, he won't be back.

charger1_sj
06-23-2016, 02:04 PM
I think you do the exact opposite. When outmanned, which the Chargers were in almost all of their games after the first few, you should be more conservative. Marty S, one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game would agree. Don't put Wiz in the "exotic, take more chances, trick plays" group. He isn't there.

I disagree. Obviously. The Chargers were in most of the games they lost. People look at it as a shortcoming that they couldn't pull out a few more wins. I think it's amazing they were able to compete as well as they did. Heck, they couldn't even put PR under center because their oline sucked so bad.

If you mean conservative as in running the ball, it would not have worked. We were in the bottom two w.r.t. running the football.

At some point there is nothing a coach can do about lack of talent. However our blocking and blocking scheme was horrible. Even the starters didn't do so well. With the exception of the center we will have the same O line that we had last year, that includes most of the backup as well. So if we see a major improvement I'm going to say that Joe D wasn't a good fit for us.

Coaching does matter. It is secondary to the talent level, but it does make a difference.

Here is nice PR interview. Worth the read.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/philip-rivers-thinks-chargers-nailed-pick-by-taking-joey-bosa-third-overall/

Denver Mike
06-23-2016, 03:18 PM
Your late to the party.


But a Franchise that cheats the salary cap and who knows what else does?


imjustask'n



1) I am never late to the I hate McCoy party. I've been on that train since before he coached a regular season game with you guys. Hated him in Denver, hate him less in San Diego. Why do I hate him less there? Because you guys are suffering plenty and he's no longer in Denver bubble screening it up.

2) The salary cap 'cheat' you love to pull out when you have no more smack ranged from 96-98. And has absolutely no relation to our Superbowl 50 victory or the fact that we've owned the AFCW for the past 5 years.

3) I never claimed Denver actually 'deserved' anything. As a fan I obviously relish the good moments, however I never claimed entitlement.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-23-2016, 03:44 PM
It doesnt sit well with me that in week one we'll see the likes of Jamaal Charles, Charcandrick West, and Knile Davis on one side; Dontari Poe, Justin Houston, Dee Ford and Tamba Hali on the other...

In their house. :eek:

Heck, they also have Spencer Ware. Talk about loaded at RB! :crazy:

Denver Mike
06-23-2016, 04:10 PM
Heck, they also have Spencer Ware. Talk about loaded at RB! :crazy:

No kidding. KC reminds me of Denver of old, where it seems like no matter how bad or good the rest of the team gets, they seem to have an abundance of great runningbacks.

HeadTrip
06-23-2016, 05:14 PM
I think you do the exact opposite. When outmanned, which the Chargers were in almost all of their games after the first few, you should be more conservative. Marty S, one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game would agree. Don't put Wiz in the "exotic, take more chances, trick plays" group. He isn't there.


That's the football equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. If you're outmanned you need to do something to level the playing field. Getting more conservative only allows other teams to further leverage their advantage.

IMVHO.

frozendisc
06-23-2016, 06:48 PM
That's the football equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. If you're outmanned you need to do something to level the playing field. Getting more conservative only allows other teams to further leverage their advantage.

IMVHO.


I think the word 'conservative' should be changed out with 'simplified'......

When teams get run over in Ice Hockey, the usual response is to simplify the systems. Get guys doing the simple systems really well, then build up if/when possible.

Having a real complicated offense with half the o-line made up from reserves just begs for disaster, which is what they got.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-23-2016, 07:31 PM
I think the word 'conservative' should be changed out with 'simplified'......

When teams get run over in Ice Hockey, the usual response is to simplify the systems. Get guys doing the simple systems really well, then build up if/when possible.

Having a real complicated offense with half the o-line made up from reserves just begs for disaster, which is what they got.

I stopped reading after "ice hockey." :D

HeadTrip
06-23-2016, 07:42 PM
I think the word 'conservative' should be changed out with 'simplified'......

When teams get run over in Ice Hockey, the usual response is to simplify the systems. Get guys doing the simple systems really well, then build up if/when possible.

Having a real complicated offense with half the o-line made up from reserves just begs for disaster, which is what they got.

I'm not talking in terms of complexity, I think they should keep things pretty simple, then when they bust out a new formation in addition to a couple of trick plays they get that extremely effective element of surprise. That's oftentimes the difference in close games. It's got to be calculated, measured, and something a HC has to implement to put his team in position to succeed. I believe that kind of strategy is especially important when you can't rely on your guys to consistently win 1v1 match ups or be in the right place. We don't have the kind of quality players we did in 2006 when teams knew we were running power at them and they still couldn't stop it. Last year's team was in desperate need of a strategic edge that they never got.

Totally Bolted
06-23-2016, 07:43 PM
1) I am never late to the I hate McCoy party. I've been on that train since before he coached a regular season game with you guys. Hated him in Denver, hate him less in San Diego. Why do I hate him less there? Because you guys are suffering plenty and he's no longer in Denver bubble screening it up.

2) The salary cap 'cheat' you love to pull out when you have no more smack ranged from 96-98. And has absolutely no relation to our Superbowl 50 victory or the fact that we've owned the AFCW for the past 5 years.

3) I never claimed Denver actually 'deserved' anything. As a fan I obviously relish the good moments, however I never claimed entitlement.

easy there DM. Just messing with ya.
I'm old so all I got is old smack.

There are a number of folks on here who are done with MM just as you are.
If things stay as they have been, I think he'll be gone before the seasons over. Though I just don't see that happening. I think the bolts have added the right talent where they needed it. It will show in the W-L column. How much remains to be seen.

perryao
06-23-2016, 08:50 PM
If you mean conservative as in running the ball, it would not have worked. We were in the bottom two w.r.t. running the football. Not saying it would've. But it would have been better than what HT was suggesting, imo. Thing is, if what they were doing didn't work and, according to you, a more run oriented offense wouldn't have worked, why are people blaming MM for last year's failures. If it isn't philosophy what's left. Lack of execution. Why was there lack of execution? A dearth of players good enough to compete.

At some point there is nothing a coach can do about lack of talent. Exactly.
However our blocking and blocking scheme was horrible. Please explain the blocking scheme the Chargers used. I don't think even pacstud knows what blocking schemes the Chargers used.
Even the starters didn't do so well.How long were all the starters even in there together?
With the exception of the center we will have the same O line that we had last year, that includes most of the backup as well.No, the Chargers won't UNLESS they have the same amount of injuries. I'll also submit that having a better center will make a huge difference.
So if we see a major improvement I'm going to say that Joe D wasn't a good fit for us. You can only credibly say that if the Chargers have similar injuries and do better. If the starters stay healthy and the results are better then you have to say it was injuries that were the difference.

Coaching does matter. It is secondary to the talent level, but it does make a difference. No one said different.

Here is nice PR interview. Worth the read.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/philip-rivers-thinks-chargers-nailed-pick-by-taking-joey-bosa-third-overall/Good one.

perryao
06-23-2016, 09:14 PM
That's the football equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. If you're outmanned you need to do something to level the playing field. Getting more conservative only allows other teams to further leverage their advantage.

IMVHO.Tell that to the Jets who went to the AFCCG two years in a row with undermanned teams. Oh, btw, the oline of the team those two years? Not one olineman missed a game over those two seasons.

HeadTrip
06-23-2016, 09:49 PM
Tell that to the Jets who went to the AFCCG two years in a row with undermanned teams. Oh, btw, the oline of the team those two years? Not one olineman missed a game over those two seasons.

I see I'm MMing this conversation. I say good day.

Chargerfreak
06-24-2016, 04:01 AM
I totally thought he was going to go there too.

But that would destroy his Gordon man crush love, wouldn't it?

It would take someone with no knowledge of football to watch those running backs every week run it down our throats and not consider changing that the priority.

Chargerfreak
06-24-2016, 04:03 AM
We got better over the 2015 season with Perryman on the field.
This year looks far more promising with adds like Mebane, Bosa and our young front seven depth.

ps: OL was easily our biggest problem. We were the 21st in points allowed, including points scored off offensive turnovers. 26th in points scored. We couldn't do anything with the ball when we had it.

They answered the bell. They knew where the problem was and acquired Mebane, Bosa, and others. Now the coaching and execution must do their part.

woodeye2000
06-24-2016, 06:56 AM
I see I'm MMing this conversation. I say good day.

Beat that dead horse.
Mess with my mind.
Remove the green M&M's.
Or Eye will have a silent tantrum...

woodeye2000
06-24-2016, 06:59 AM
Blah. Blah. Blah.
Trenchmunch.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
MM's fault.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
When do we put on the pads?
Eye want to hit somebody.
This means YOU...

frozendisc
06-24-2016, 07:17 AM
Blah. Blah. Blah.
Trenchmunch.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
MM's fault.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
When do we put on the pads?
Eye want to hit somebody.
This means YOU...

Enjoy the Summer
Enjoy the 0-0 record
Enjoy the quiet from Charger Park
Work on your defense of MM quotes

Chargerfreak
06-24-2016, 07:26 AM
Enjoy the Summer
Enjoy the 0-0 record
Enjoy the quiet from Charger Park
Work on your defense of MM quotes

I like it. I'm not nominating it, but its good smack. MM smack is popular. Go with what works.

woodeye2000
06-24-2016, 07:29 AM
Enjoy the Summer
Enjoy the 0-0 record
Enjoy the quiet from Charger Park
Work on your defense of MM quotes

Eye've been quoted as saying

"...MM will learn how to coach,
and lead us to victory!"

frozendisc
06-24-2016, 07:31 AM
I like it. I'm not nominating it, but its good smack. MM smack is popular. Go with what works.

I have time today to work on such things......

Start a PK rumor, or work on MM smack.....tough call.

Chargerfreak
06-24-2016, 07:43 AM
Blah. Blah. Blah.
Trenchmunch.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
MM's fault.
Blah. Blah. Blah.
When do we put on the pads?
Eye want to hit somebody.
This means YOU...

I like violent posts. My job is to fan the flames. Attack attack attack !

frozendisc
06-24-2016, 07:54 AM
Eye've been quoted as saying

"...MM will learn how to coach,
and lead us to victory!"

MM knows how to coach
MM needs to learn how to lead

woodeye2000
06-24-2016, 07:55 AM
I like violent posts. My job is to fan the flames. Attack attack attack !

Give the goalie a
"Shaved Hawaiian Ice."
Give him a "slushie."
Hip-check him into the boards.

sonorajim
06-24-2016, 08:25 AM
They answered the bell. They knew where the problem was and acquired Mebane, Bosa, and others. Now the coaching and execution must do their part.
I agree.
OL got two new coaches, two new centers and returned a successful offensive coordinator. Run blocking got a stud young TE and FBs.
DL got a new coach, Mebane, Bosa. Run D got two new ILBs.
The offseason work by Telesco looks solid.

sonorajim
06-24-2016, 08:35 AM
So, now I'm curious- What do the players have to do to get McCoy fired?
Get injured?
Act like they don't care who wins?
Refuse to suit up until a new HC is hired?
Keep all their games close only to lose them ala 2015?
;)

topcat4477
06-24-2016, 09:24 AM
So, now I'm curious- What do the players have to do to get McCoy fired?
Get injured?
Act like they don't care who wins?
Refuse to suit up until a new HC is hired?
Keep all their games close only to lose them ala 2015?
;)

How about: Lose a lot of games.

frozendisc
06-24-2016, 09:26 AM
So, now I'm curious- What do the players have to do to get McCoy fired?
Get injured?
Act like they don't care who wins?
Refuse to suit up until a new HC is hired?
Keep all their games close only to lose them ala 2015?
;)


McCoy will earn his termination all on his own, the players have little to do with it.

woodeye2000
06-24-2016, 09:27 AM
Let's win for Mike.

frozendisc
06-24-2016, 09:28 AM
Let's win for Mike.

How about winning because it is what you are paid to do......

With losing your job the ramification for losing....unless you are MM. ;)

charger1_sj
06-24-2016, 10:22 AM
Not saying it would've. But it would have been better than what HT was suggesting, imo. Thing is, if what they were doing didn't work and, according to you, a more run oriented offense wouldn't have worked, why are people blaming MM for last year's failures. If it isn't philosophy what's left. Lack of execution. Why was there lack of execution? A dearth of players good enough to compete.

Exactly.
Please explain the blocking scheme the Chargers used. I don't think even pacstud knows what blocking schemes the Chargers used.
How long were all the starters even in there together?
No, the Chargers won't UNLESS they have the same amount of injuries. I'll also submit that having a better center will make a huge difference.
You can only credibly say that if the Chargers have similar injuries and do better. If the starters stay healthy and the results are better then you have to say it was injuries that were the difference.

No one said different.

Good one.

There is a lot left. Play calling, time management, in game decision making and finally execution. Execution is a function of practice, schemes, technique. Isn't practice, scheme and technique a big part of what coaches do?


A run oriented offense would not have worked because clearly we could not run the ball effectively. It was a combo of injuries, bad blocking and Gordon not getting it.

In as far as our O line goes we have huge slow guys. We seem to prefer it that way. But big slow guys are not optimal at zone blocking and we had a good deal of that. Fluker, Barksdale, Watt played in a lot of games. Franklin was horrible even before he got hurt.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-24-2016, 01:31 PM
I have time today to work on such things......

Start a PK rumor, or work on MM smack.....tough call.

A Punk Kitty rumor??

Totally Bolted
06-24-2016, 01:44 PM
A Punk Kitty rumor??


Sure miss her.

perryao
06-24-2016, 02:07 PM
There is a lot left. Play calling, time management, in game decision making and finally execution.MM didn't have the horses. That was the biggest problem. Play calling? Limited by injuries (and really is philosophy). Heck, they couldn't even put PR under center without getting him killed. In game decision making? That's a mighty wide sombrero. What decisions specifically didn't you like?
Execution is a function of practice, schemes, technique. Isn't practice, scheme and technique a big part of what coaches do?
If you ran out on the field after a 3 month tutorial from Vince Lombardi and Bill Belichick would you execute? I don't think so.
A run oriented offense would not have worked because clearly we could not run the ball effectively. It was a combo of injuries, bad blocking and Gordon not getting it.
You got the first two right. I heard on a radio show that the Chargers were #30 out of the 32 teams with yards of daylight when Gordon was running the ball (.8 yards). Give the guy an average Oline and he's going to be a beast. The only problem I worry about with Gordon is the fumbles.
In as far as our O line goes we have huge slow guys. We seem to prefer it that way. But big slow guys are not optimal at zone blocking and we had a good deal of that.Least of their problems.
Fluker, Barksdale, Watt played in a lot of games. Franklin was horrible even before he got hurt.Come on man. The Chargers started Dunlap, Franklin, Watt, Fluker, and Barksdale the first game of the season. That lineup didn't even finish the game and didn't play another game together all year. The Chargers used something like 25 different oline combinations last year!!!

Watt missed more than he played and couldn't play center due to injuries he was trying play with. Fluker played hurt. Barksdale was the only guy that played every game iirc...but not at the same position.

IIRC from an article I read, five different players played left tackle, six played left guard, three or four played center, five played right guard and three or four played right tackle.

I think MM deserves a little grace after a season like that.

EDIT: Typo.

SDCPB
06-24-2016, 02:09 PM
Let's win for Mike.

*sings*

You're just an OC boy. You're not the real Mccoy.

LongTimeOCBolts
06-24-2016, 02:59 PM
*sings*

You're just an OC boy. You're not the real Mccoy.

"Just" an OC boy?! "Just"?? "Just"?????



Me mad.

sonorajim
06-25-2016, 12:08 PM
How about: Lose a lot of games.
That would work (0-16 to 8-8, maybe 9-7). Do you expect it?