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BELLAI
09-21-2004, 11:55 AM
WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG TO REMOVE BREES, ONCE A HEAD INJURY OCCURS, A SECOND
CONSECUTIVE HIT OR JARRING CAN RESULT IN NOT ONLY GAME , SEASON, CAREER ENDING
INJURY. THE COACH DID THE RIGHT THING BUT MEDICAL STAFF MUST BE EVEN MORE
VIGILANT. SPANOS PAYS BIG BUCKS FOR PLAYERS, WINS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT THE COACH
"CAM" AT THE TIME WAS THE ONE TO NOTICE THE BEHAVIORAL CHANGE AND INFORM MARTY.
LIKE OR HATE MARTY, HE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION. I HOPE RIVERS TOOK GOOD MENTAL NOTES
ON HOW FLUTIE WENT IN COLD AND DID WHAT HE DID.
WE PAYED BIG BUCKS FOR HIM TO SIGN. KUDOS TO THE COACHES SAFETY AND LIVES FIRST,
RELATED TOPICS CONCUSSIONS ARE THE MAJOR REASONS WHYSO MANY ICE HOCKEY STARS
ABRUPTLY END PROMISING CARREERS. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP BREES, AND YOUR EYES OPEN

MoveitMister
09-23-2004, 07:32 PM
Welcome to the forum, BellaI

While I agree with your message, next time please don't post in all caps.

Have fun! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

BELLAI
09-24-2004, 04:44 AM
Will do . Thank for thr tip. go chargers go.

ftwbolt
09-24-2004, 08:43 PM
Jets safety McGraw fined $7,500 for hit on Chargers' Brees
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20040924-1618-fbn-jets-mcgrawfined.html

ASSOCIATED PRESS
4:18 p.m. September 24, 2004

NEW YORK – New York Jets safety Jon McGraw was fined $7,500 Friday for a helmet-to-helmet hit on San Diego Chargers quarterback Drew Brees, who sustained a concussion.




McGraw was called for roughing the passer late in the third quarter of the Jets' 34-28 win on Sunday. He was fined for hitting Brees in the chest and head area with his helmet, NFL spokesman Vince Casey said.

Brees declared himself ready to start Sunday's game at Denver after being cleared by the team's medical staff on Wednesday. The NFL injury report Friday listed Brees as a probable starter against the Broncos.

Despite the hit, Brees stayed in for 12 plays and threw a 33-yard touchdown pass. He wasn't happy to get pulled with less than four minutes left, tossing his helmet on the sideline and having a heated discussion with coach Marty Schottenheimer.

The Jets are off Sunday and play Miami on Oct. 3.

WHITELIGHTNING
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
sounds like a scarry place to get lost.i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

TrumpetDude
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: Thunderstruck

I guess my point is that I can believe that Brees could play after getting a concussion and then remember little or nothing later. The human brain is a strange and mysterious place (especially TrumpetDude's )


I am the master of my own tiny universe. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Electron
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: HOSSman

Originally posted by: Electron

Unfortuately, head injuries are not all cut and dry. People can get in a car accident, self extricate, be walking around at the scene of the accident and can be lucid. They get put in to an ambulance and on the way to the trauma center become unresponsive. The initial injury isn't always the worst that it gets. It's a hard call. Should you take out every player that takes a blow to the head? They all could potentially have sustained an injury or maybe not. Is being asked questions to assess their injury as good as a CAT scan? I doubt it. But even with CAT scans they like to do another scan the next day because brain injuries can take time to develop. They made a decision and it was wrong. Yes, physicians can be wrong too. Obviously they can decide way better than me or you but they are not correct 100 percent of the time.



Actually, having a trained neurologist doing an assessment is better than a CT scan at that time. A CT scan is looking at imagable anatomy, and most medical literature on concussions suggests that without functional information, such as EEG and MEG, by the time brain infarction is imagable, there is already an onset of perminant brain damage.



The trick is trying to make a neurological assessment of the severity, and it has been demonstrated and reported in peer reviewed medical journals that severity and frequency are significant indicators for projecting long term brain consequences.



I am not a medical doctor, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I have over 10 years experience in functional brain imaging, and concussions are a tricky thing.

Your right about the ct scan and unless there is some sort of bleed or some sort of midline shift the ct scan wouldn't be able to give much you information of severity of TBI in an acute setting. I think the point I was trying to make (and apparently I failed) is that given what the physicians have to work with on the field gives them less of a chance to make a nuts on assessment. Which brings up the question, is there a board certified neurologist on the sidelines? Or is the physician on the sideline an ortho guy.

If you don't mind, could you give me some references to the medical literature on concussions. Sounds like an interesting read.

Thunderstruck
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
When I was a kid, I was riding my bike home from school. I turned the corner to coast down this long, steep road, and the next thing I remember is being in the bathtub while my mom scrubbed about twenty scrapes and a major road-rash on my forehead. Now, I went to the doctor later and he said I had a concussion, which makes sense now. Somehow, after crashing my bike, I managed to ride all the way back home (about a mile) through traffic and pedestrians. To this day, I remember none of it...just turning the corner and starting to coast, and then coming back to my senses in the bathtub. Wierdness.

I guess my point is that I can believe that Brees could play after getting a concussion and then remember little or nothing later. The human brain is a strange and mysterious place (especially TrumpetDude's i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif )

denverboltfan
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: 1960BoltFan
The medical staff blew it big time. Any player who has a concussion should be OUT. Brees is a tough competitor, but I add stubborn and either ignorant of post concussion syndrome or dumb. There are guys who have gotten hit twice in a row and NEVER recovered. Living 20 + years with incurable headaches and being an invalid are reasons to be ultra conservative. The brain is a delicate organ, modern medicine does not heal it with any regularity. All you can do is hope and pray, if it happens to you. The NCAA knows this, as do all good physicians and coaches, but it is amazing how many team doctors, even on the pro level are ignorant of this. Every concussion causes permanent brain damage and every concussion makes it easier for the recipient to get the next concussion. Roger Stauback had to quit because it came to the point where a slight bump even to his body would cause a concussion. His weekly brain testing showed continued decline until he had to stop. Remember Jerry Quarry? Being macho with brain injuries is stupid!


Jerry Quarry - I still love the Bellflower Bomber.

foober
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
The interesting thing in all this is Brees did play better after getting his noggin knocked.

my theory on brees has always been he trys to hard. And gets too excited each play. Trys to make too much happen. After getting the concussion I think he just went into cruise mode. Was able to block out all other unneeded information. And just did the play like it was coreographed.

See an open reciever. Throw to an open reciever. Simple.

HOSSman
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

How do you keep cats still on the copier to scan them?

That would be a real tricky thing ....

Duct tape.

Some pros like to rub the cat on the carpet so that the static electricity keeps the cat on the copier, but that is not my style.

Shamrock
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Speaking of animals ....

Q - Why did the chicken cross the road?

A - To show the Armadillo that it's possible.

Shamrock
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: HOSSman

Actually, having a trained neurologist doing an assessment is better than a CAT scan ...

I am not a medical doctor, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I have over 10 years experience in functional brain imaging, and concussions are a tricky thing.
How do you keep cats still on the copier to scan them?

That would be a real tricky thing ....

Shamrock
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Amatuers ......

I wish Lipz was here. He led the league in being kicked in the head..... or was it the groin?

HOSSman
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: Shamrock
Amatuers ......

I wish Lipz was here. He led the league in being kicked in the head..... or was it the groin?

Since he usually has his head up his arse, both are counted at the same time.

HOSSman
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: Electron
Unfortuately, head injuries are not all cut and dry. People can get in a car accident, self extricate, be walking around at the scene of the accident and can be lucid. They get put in to an ambulance and on the way to the trauma center become unresponsive. The initial injury isn't always the worst that it gets. It's a hard call. Should you take out every player that takes a blow to the head? They all could potentially have sustained an injury or maybe not. Is being asked questions to assess their injury as good as a CAT scan? I doubt it. But even with CAT scans they like to do another scan the next day because brain injuries can take time to develop. They made a decision and it was wrong. Yes, physicians can be wrong too. Obviously they can decide way better than me or you but they are not correct 100 percent of the time.

Actually, having a trained neurologist doing an assessment is better than a CT scan at that time. A CT scan is looking at imagable anatomy, and most medical literature on concussions suggests that without functional information, such as EEG and MEG, by the time brain infarction is imagable, there is already an onset of perminant brain damage.

The trick is trying to make a neurological assessment of the severity, and it has been demonstrated and reported in peer reviewed medical journals that severity and frequency are significant indicators for projecting long term brain consequences.

I am not a medical doctor, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I have over 10 years experience in functional brain imaging, and concussions are a tricky thing.

MoveitMister
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I read this thread and for a time I thought we had some Doctors posting in here, then I realized we have a bunch of people that have been kicked in the head and know all about this from those injuries. I must admit that I had thought I wasn't the only Charger fan with a damaged brain! I guess it's a requirement!

Hold up!

I've never been kicked in the head! i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Chargeroo
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: MoveitMister



Hold up!



I've never been kicked in the head!
That's why you know nothing about this subject!
i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Chargeroo
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
I read this thread and for a time I thought we had some Doctors posting in here, then I realized we have a bunch of people that have been kicked in the head and know all about this from those injuries. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif I must admit that I had thought I wasn't the only Charger fan with a damaged brain! I guess it's a requirement! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

MoveitMister
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by: CoopDeVille
All jokes aside....if a man can throw a TD pass after suffering a concussion and prior to that had like 15 yds and no TD's.....then I would say the late hit was a wake-up call......lol.......I am sticking by Brees until he proves otherwise.....he's a trooper!
I'd love to see him play in Denver; but if it's a detriment to his overall, lifelong health along with playing at that altitude after having had a concussion the prior week, I'd rather the Chargers keep up the act that Brees is starting and then start Flutie at the very last moment.

Why allow them to game plan on Flutie?
Why give Shanahan a chance?


I'm sincerely hoping that we do to Denver what the Bears did to the Pack last week. i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

WHITELIGHTNING
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Thats why i believe Brees should sit against Denver, He doesn't need to risk it "for the team" I know he's married, does he have children?. Brees should sit.

Electron
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Unfortuately, head injuries are not all cut and dry. People can get in a car accident, self extricate, be walking around at the scene of the accident and can be lucid. They get put in to an ambulance and on the way to the trauma center become unresponsive. The initial injury isn't always the worst that it gets. It's a hard call. Should you take out every player that takes a blow to the head? They all could potentially have sustained an injury or maybe not. Is being asked questions to assess their injury as good as a CAT scan? I doubt it. But even with CAT scans they like to do another scan the next day because brain injuries can take time to develop. They made a decision and it was wrong. Yes, physicians can be wrong too. Obviously they can decide way better than me or you but they are not correct 100 percent of the time.

NWBoltFan
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
None of it changes the fact he played better after he got hammered than he did before. Maybe he needed the crap knocked out of him to "settle" down. Hopefully he'll be more relaxed, and focused in the upcoming game...

CoopDeVille
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Yeah the Medical Staff dropped the ball....it's kind of like asking a drunk guy who just gambled away his rent if he wants a $2,000 loan....you know the answer is going to be yes...because he THINKS he is fine and KNOWS he will win.........

Psquared
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Yeah be inconsistent. It'd be nice if he was more consistent.

1960BoltFan
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
The medical staff blew it big time. Any player who has a concussion should be OUT. Brees is a tough competitor, but I add stubborn and either ignorant of post concussion syndrome or dumb. There are guys who have gotten hit twice in a row and NEVER recovered. Living 20 + years with incurable headaches and being an invalid are reasons to be ultra conservative. The brain is a delicate organ, modern medicine does not heal it with any regularity. All you can do is hope and pray, if it happens to you. The NCAA knows this, as do all good physicians and coaches, but it is amazing how many team doctors, even on the pro level are ignorant of this. Every concussion causes permanent brain damage and every concussion makes it easier for the recipient to get the next concussion. Roger Stauback had to quit because it came to the point where a slight bump even to his body would cause a concussion. His weekly brain testing showed continued decline until he had to stop. Remember Jerry Quarry? Being macho with brain injuries is stupid!

CoopDeVille
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Cameron asked him what percentage he thought he was playing at.

“I guess I told him 60 percent,” Brees said. “I just arbitrarily threw out a number. That and the combination of me maybe stumbling around a little bit, which is what people told me, they saw me stumbling around on the sideline trying to like, pick up a ball to get loose again before I went back out.

“I was stumbling before I went out and then we went out and threw the touchdown and came back off and they said, ’Maybe we should hold off.’ “

Schottenheimer said he was OK with the Chargers’ lines of communications, even though they appeared cumbersome.

The medical staff felt it was OK that Brees continued to play, Schottenheimer said.

“I think it was something as he continued to play, it got worse,” Schottenheimer said. “When Cam Cameron spoke to me about it, I spoke to him and it was apparent he wasn’t right. And I wasn’t going to put him back in the game and put him at risk and compromise our ability to win the game.”

Brees underwent medical tests Monday and expects to be examined again on Wednesday.

---------------------------

All jokes aside....if a man can throw a TD pass after suffering a concussion and prior to that had like 15 yds and no TD's.....then I would say the late hit was a wake-up call......lol.......I am sticking by Brees until he proves otherwise.....he's a trooper!

HellsBells
09-24-2004, 08:51 PM
Well said, he wants to win and show us all what he can do.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by: WHITELIGHTNING
sounds like a scarry place to get lost.

I drop crumbs to find my way around. Like a dog, I mark my territory with my football scent glands.

i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gifi/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

xnet
09-25-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by: 1960BoltFan
The medical staff blew it big time. Any player who has a concussion should be OUT. Brees is a tough competitor, but I add stubborn and either ignorant of post concussion syndrome or dumb. There are guys who have gotten hit twice in a row and NEVER recovered. Living 20 + years with incurable headaches and being an invalid are reasons to be ultra conservative. The brain is a delicate organ, modern medicine does not heal it with any regularity. All you can do is hope and pray, if it happens to you. The NCAA knows this, as do all good physicians and coaches, but it is amazing how many team doctors, even on the pro level are ignorant of this. Every concussion causes permanent brain damage and every concussion makes it easier for the recipient to get the next concussion. Roger Stauback had to quit because it came to the point where a slight bump even to his body would cause a concussion. His weekly brain testing showed continued decline until he had to stop. Remember Jerry Quarry? Being macho with brain injuries is stupid!

1960... I know you know quite a bit about head injuries, why I remember that time you had kiwibolt on your shoulders at Disneyland and walked him straight into a ceiling fan. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif OUCH!

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:07 PM
You guys had a house of pain. Pitchfork laden impailment contests were just routine business as usual family fun. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gifi/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

talbitz54
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Triknique

Originally posted by: Chargers2112

Drew is inconsistant at best when he's not hurt, let alone if he's got a concussion. Two very bad throws for interceptions and then a fumbled snap on a drive that would have put us back in the game. That last touchdown was too little too late.





I agree that Drew was largely inconsistent the whole game, but his last touchdown to Reche, was not too late. There was about seven minutes left in the game and we were only down be 6. We needed the D to make a stop, instead they let the Jets drive down for the TD. The fans at the Q did their part, as the noise level was quite high, but the D just could not make a stop for us.

it was "the D" it was Jammer getting beat, and turned around, and getting called for PI that took the wind out our sails. Jammer is a dissappointment so far.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: 1960BoltFan
Post concussion syndrome is serious. Some people NEVER recover and live as invalids for a life time. The pain never stops. The brain is a delicate organ that modern medicine can not cure on a regular basis. Any player with a concussion should be OUT of the game. To even come back in a week is somewhat foolhardy. Unfortunately people don't understand that until it is too late. Brees is now more susceptable to the next concussion. Two more and he should quit. Brees is lucky he has a coach of integrity who pulled him for his own good, not the coaches or the teams.

It is no secret many NFL players get second opinions on medical issues due to the conflicts of interests which may exist with the medical staff. Let me spell this out. The medical staff is paid by the Chargers. The staff is paid to get players healthy. NFL players are wary of the fact that a boss (NFL Owner) may be more interested in driving the car until the wheels fall off versus properly maintaining the vehicle. And yes I am familiar with the Hypocratic oath and the caddusius.....money talks. i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif Brees needs to be very careful. The simple act of jogging can be enough to jiggle the brain and cause further damage.

1960BoltFan
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Post concussion syndrome is serious. Some people NEVER recover and live as invalids for a life time. The pain never stops. The brain is a delicate organ that modern medicine can not cure on a regular basis. Any player with a concussion should be OUT of the game. To even come back in a week is somewhat foolhardy. Unfortunately people don't understand that until it is too late. Brees is now more susceptable to the next concussion. Two more and he should quit. Brees is lucky he has a coach of integrity who pulled him for his own good, not the coaches or the teams.

HellsBells
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Drew wanted to stay in, he is a big time gamer. He wanted to win no matter what, a concusion can't hold him back. I WAS surprised Flutie didn't go in though. That O-Line needs to consider doing some bloacking (not sure If it was there fault on that particular play, but they haven't helped Drew out too much in the past).

pl52
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
I'm sure someone's already gotten to this, but I was at the game and he absolutely got smashed. He drunk walked back to the sideline and he clearly was damaged. The only mystery is why they didn't put Flutie in the first chance they had. The hit reminded me of poor old Stan Humphries.

optout
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Umm heres a quote from Brees himself.

“I feel a lot better today, obviously, than I did yesterday after the game or last night,” Brees said. “Things are coming back and I talked with the medical staff. I feel good and I should be ready to (practice) by Wednesday.”

Find it at http://www.chargers.com/news/headline_detail.cfm?news_key=1869

now drop it already.

IronMountain1960
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: geekster
Yeah, and as a Bolt fan I'm starting to feel like part of a dysfunctional family reading all these "negative fantasies"...



I keep telling myself that some of this junk sure sounds like Raider fans in Bolt clothing....
I agree, two of these guys are sounding like lousy fans or trolls. Brees gets a concussion and Marty is a liar, or the coaching staff is bad because Brees hid it from them? Give me a break, these guys need to take a valium or join the Fiader forums.

geekster
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Yeah, and as a Bolt fan I'm starting to feel like part of a dysfunctional family reading all these "negative fantasies"...

I keep telling myself that some of this junk sure sounds like Raider fans in Bolt clothing....

JerryinCA
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
I think it's funny how people are still trying to make this an issue. Marty said that Drew got worse so he pulled him, why is that so hard for people to accept? it happens a lot to people with concussions. I know it sounds funny because he actually made some better throws after he was hurt but if anyone was really concerned with his safety they would have said benching him was the smart move. As for people saying the coach should have been all over the situation I think that's wrong, the head coach has to see how everything is going with everyone, if the medical staff came and told him Drew was ok what was Marty supposed to do about it? it was only after Cam told him instead that he was worried that Marty realized he should take Drew out and he did it just then. I think people are trying to make Marty look bad in this and they are reaching for straws. He's made it crystal clear, as soon as he was aware of how Drew was getting worse he yanked him, end of story. When a game is going on the coach has a lot of responsibilities and can't be everywhere all the time, the med staff told him Drew was good to go and that's why he wasn't yanked before. I think it's to Marty's credit that he won't blame anyone for this, he could easily say the med staff didn't do their job right but he didn't, he took this all on himself. I am glad he showed concern for his players safety, this man cares about his players and you can tell. Despite what a lot of people say that are just frustrated with this franchise, HE IS A GOOD COACH

mcc2mobile
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: mvandor
At minimum, the official story doesn't reflect well on the coaching staff. .......... Pulling a guy right after a TD pass certainly would seem to be an odd choice.

That is what makes it a controversy.


Had they pulled Brees for one series afterwards, maybe they would have picked up on the "wooziness" It takes 15-20 minutes for these things to show up . That is the time for the swelling to start blocking the various nerve/ brain transmissions. ( My wife has had several and I asked the neurologists several questions on the "how" so I could assist her).
The fumbled snap was the key for Cam to wake up and ask again.

Drew was trying to be the "team player " member and keep right on going. Mistakes were made on both the player and coaching/doctor staff side.


I agree Marty was backing Brees even with the bad day. I still think he is giving Drew a fair chance to prove himself.

Most likely it would best for Drew to sit one game out. Heck we have four qb'S now; The injury bug final got our starter after three years. Why risk him? Even LT thinks it is a good idea for Drew to sit one game.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: mvandor
At minimum, the official story doesn't reflect well on the coaching staff. It took one quarter after the hit for Cam to either discover and/or inform Marty about Brees' condition???? Little slow on the uptake or communication, one or the other, seems to me.

Sure, it looks beter today with the explanation than it did Sunday, but what OC and HC wouldn't be watching his starting QB like a hawk after a big hit? You either pull him then or leave him in until it becomes obvious he's not functioning on all cylinders. Pulling a guy right after a TD pass certainly would seem to be an odd choice.

Brees did not tell Cam he was dinged right away. Here is an except from the San Diego Union's interview to shed light on the sequence of events:

Brees said he knew he had sustained a concussion "right when it happened," but chose not to tell anyone.

"You're out there playing the game, stuff happens, you get dinged up, you just play," he said. "Obviously, I didn't want to come out of the game, so I didn't really want to tell anybody anything that would get me out of the game."

After sustaining the hit from blitzing free safety Jon McGraw, Brees handed off to LaDainian Tomlinson for a touchdown, then directed two more series before being pulled. The possessions ended with Brees losing a fumble and throwing a touchdown pass.

The idea of pulling him wasn't considered until offensive coordinator Cam Cameron asked Brees about his health. Not liking the answer, Cameron relayed his concerns to Schottenheimer.

"(Cameron) asked me what percent I was, and I guess I told him 60 percent," Brees said. "I don't know. I think I just arbitrarily threw out a number. I think that and the combination of me maybe stumbling around a little bit . . . was all kind of a culmination of things that led them to believe that maybe I shouldn't be out there."

Schottenheimer said he hasn't thought about who would start if Brees is unavailable.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20040921-9999-1s21chargers.html

mvandor
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
At minimum, the official story doesn't reflect well on the coaching staff. It took one quarter after the hit for Cam to either discover and/or inform Marty about Brees' condition???? Little slow on the uptake or communication, one or the other, seems to me.

Sure, it looks beter today with the explanation than it did Sunday, but what OC and HC wouldn't be watching his starting QB like a hawk after a big hit? You either pull him then or leave him in until it becomes obvious he's not functioning on all cylinders. Pulling a guy right after a TD pass certainly would seem to be an odd choice.

MoveitMister
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: HBBoltFan

Originally posted by: Tomlinson21

"I didn't lose my balance, I blacked out while walking around functioning. Doing what needed to be done."



You can't black out and walk around functioning at the same time. Cmon.



Tell you what. When I went to jump school we had a guy that landed real hard. He took a minute to get up and then kind of staggered around for another minute. We asked "Are you ok?" He said he was fine. We went back to the airfield for our next jump and got our gear on. During this time the blackhats questioned him and had him show them he could jump and perform his duties. All good right? Well as we were standing up to go out the door again (which was 4 hours from his first impact) he started shouting "How the hell did I get in this aircraft?" The last thing he remembered was being 10 feet above the ground about to land. We calmed him down and he still went out the door and landed fine.



It was a good thing that was our last jump becuase the docs said he had a severe concussion and couldn't jump for another couple of weeks. So he got his wings but really only remembers 4 jumps.

I've had 2 skull fractures and countless numbers of concussions from playing sports, having abusive parents, boyfriends/husband, car crashes and having a corrugated steel warehouse door fall on my head. My 1st husband broke 2 toilets with my head! Freaked the cops when they came. I've never been knocked unconscious once. I've continued to function each time. This is the first year, in nearly 30 years, I haven't had a headache everyday.

My current doctor marvels when she looks at my xrays, cat scans and MRI's.
She wonders why I'm still here.

I keep telling her I'm waiting for the Chargers to win the Super Bowl. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Tomlinson21 obviously hasn't been there or done that. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif
No disrespect, but you haven't walked in my or Drew's shoes.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: MoveitMister

No disrespect, but you haven't walked in my or Drew's shoes.


Well maybe some of us have to a certain degree. That was a pretty intense story there MIM. Dang.

Well, I have been a believer you give a Q.B 3 years minimum to develop and now Brees has a concussion. I remember Stan Humphreys eyes everytime he received his successive concussions. It was freakin' ugly when the TV cameras would show tight shots on Stans' eyes spinning like roulette wheels. LT has even said on his friends behalf, he wished Drew would sit one game. This kids life is on the line and no damn game is more important than that fact. I understand the fact Drew is auditioning for the league right now and if the Bolts can trade him before the deadline, Drew is gone. These are inevitable events we just may as well accept.

The fact was touted that Rivers was the "most ready" Q.B. to start. Big Ben is starting this week and Eli has had his reps. Enough molly coddlingly the rookie and get him in the game. Rivers has been talking to his "Goose" for quan since he got drafted so let the rookie play. This crap of destroying the kids confidence is pure BS. Rivers has endured his own personal and private hardships which makes this kid more ready than most for adversity. Rivers will not crumble and cry like a baby and start sucking his thumb - he is nails and has the tools. More than likely, Rivers will be the Chargers starter against Denver Dec. 5th. Let the rookie get a look at the Bronco defense twice this year. He will need the reps and this may be just the spark which ignites his career.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
I have been pulling hard for Philip Rivers to start the season and save Brees. Now Brees has a concussion - aka damaged goods. Drew's trade value will now go down and if he gets another one in Denver - well you get the picture. If we would have benched Brees at the beginning....Brees doesn't get damaged and he leaves the Chargers with a pretty good pre-season Q.B. rating. Ok, I know it is pre-season but Brees is NOT damaged. Now a concussion.....great. i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

HBBoltFan
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21
"I didn't lose my balance, I blacked out while walking around functioning. Doing what needed to be done."

You can't black out and walk around functioning at the same time. Cmon.

Tell you what. When I went to jump school we had a guy that landed real hard. He took a minute to get up and then kind of staggered around for another minute. We asked "Are you ok?" He said he was fine. We went back to the airfield for our next jump and got our gear on. During this time the blackhats questioned him and had him show them he could jump and perform his duties. All good right? Well as we were standing up to go out the door again (which was 4 hours from his first impact) he started shouting "How the hell did I get in this aircraft?" The last thing he remembered was being 10 feet above the ground about to land. We calmed him down and he still went out the door and landed fine.

It was a good thing that was our last jump becuase the docs said he had a severe concussion and couldn't jump for another couple of weeks. So he got his wings but really only remembers 4 jumps.

MoveitMister
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21

Originally posted by: MoveitMister

[quote]
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21



concussions are bad. you throw up. you lose balance. you feel like crap basically. They usually linger for a few days. I didn't see any of those symptoms (except for the feeling like crap part) at all after seeing Drew on the post game interviews. Go figure.



"I didn't lose my balance, I blacked out while walking around functioning. Doing what needed to be done."



You can't black out and walk around functioning at the same time. Cmon.Then you've obviously never had a concussion, let alone the skull fracture that I sustained while working and functioning.

Have you ever driven home from work and not remember the drive home?
Do you consciously think of every breath you take and every instance that you blink?

It all works off the same software, even when we don't think about it.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
You can be functioning and not remember what happened later. There is a video in the Vault here of Charlie Joiner talking about his concussion and not remembering the TD he caught. Concussions are a very tricky animal.

Tomlinson21
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: MoveitMister
[quote]
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21

concussions are bad. you throw up. you lose balance. you feel like crap basically. They usually linger for a few days. I didn't see any of those symptoms (except for the feeling like crap part) at all after seeing Drew on the post game interviews. Go figure.

"I didn't lose my balance, I blacked out while walking around functioning. Doing what needed to be done."

You can't black out and walk around functioning at the same time. Cmon.

Triknique
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Chargers2112
Drew is inconsistant at best when he's not hurt, let alone if he's got a concussion. Two very bad throws for interceptions and then a fumbled snap on a drive that would have put us back in the game. That last touchdown was too little too late.


I agree that Drew was largely inconsistent the whole game, but his last touchdown to Reche, was not too late. There was about seven minutes left in the game and we were only down be 6. We needed the D to make a stop, instead they let the Jets drive down for the TD. The fans at the Q did their part, as the noise level was quite high, but the D just could not make a stop for us.

IronMountain1960
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: michael
how about this.....ill say what i feel like sayin and if you dont like it thats your own problem. take exception to whatever you want. have it again,89:



MARTY MAY BE LYING TO SAVE FACE ABOUT PULLING HIS STARTER....didja like that
What you need to know Michael, is Marty doesn't lie, most people and honest people don't. You need to get a clue on how to judge people and situations, Brees had just lead the team down the field for a TD, that is probably a pretty good indicator. Two if Marty felt Brees was having a bad day and wanted to pull him, he would say it just like he always does. Lying never makes a situation better, Marty knows that, and you should too. Brees did not have a good game, in my opinion, he was over throwing a lot of open recievers, and Marty stuck with him, so if you are going to accuse the Charger Head Coach of lying to protect what you might think of him, you have a big problem and I would recommend you don't start negative threads accusing the Coach of lying.

Chargeroo
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
From the U-T:
Brees, who was pulled from two games last season, protested the decision along the sideline. He acknowledged later that he was "woozy" at one point and had trouble remembering some things. But he said he generally felt in control.

"I threw a touchdown, but to be honest I wasn't all there," he said. "But I felt like I was good enough."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sounds to me like he was pulled for good reason.

DayOneBoltsFan
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: ChargersfaninKansas
If you watched Drew at the end of the game while everybody was shaking hands and coming off the field, you would notice that Drew cringed, and tried to block it every time someone went to pat his head. It happened at least three times.

I noticed that too. He would pull his head back when that went to pat it. I didn’t think about it at the time because I thought he was still p1ssed off but it would make perfect sense if he had a concussion.

Chargers2112
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Drew is inconsistant at best when he's not hurt, let alone if he's got a concussion. Two very bad throws for interceptions and then a fumbled snap on a drive that would have put us back in the game. That last touchdown was too little too late.

ChargersfaninKansas
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
If you watched Drew at the end of the game while everybody was shaking hands and coming off the field, you would notice that Drew cringed, and tried to block it every time someone went to pat his head. It happened at least three times.

MoveitMister
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21
concussions are bad. you throw up. you lose balance. you feel like crap basically. They usually linger for a few days. I didn't see any of those symptoms (except for the feeling like crap part) at all after seeing Drew on the post game interviews. Go figure.
I didn't lose my balance, I blacked out while walking around functioning. Doing what needed to be done.
They linger longer than a few days and you wouldn't notice it by watching the person everytime.

foty89
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: Tomlinson21
concussions are bad. you throw up. you lose balance. you feel like crap basically. They usually linger for a few days. I didn't see any of those symptoms (except for the feeling like crap part) at all after seeing Drew on the post game interviews. Go figure.

That is not necessarily true, there are many variations in the way the present. There are also various severities from mild to severe. The fact that he did not have the mentioned symptoms does nothing to prove that he did not have one.

Go Bolts!
i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

Tomlinson21
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
concussions are bad. you throw up. you lose balance. you feel like crap basically. They usually linger for a few days. I didn't see any of those symptoms (except for the feeling like crap part) at all after seeing Drew on the post game interviews. Go figure.

MoveitMister
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Personally, I'd never want any of our quarterbacks or any other player on any team to look like Stan Humphries did when he took his final hit on the field. They've done a lot of good work on brain trauma, but they're still light years away from someone being able to shrug off a concussion.

I've had a few, it's not a good feeling and you don't always do what's best for yourself afterward.

Better to pull him than to have him wonder who his children are when he's 40.

michael
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
riverwarrior:

first and foremost, what statement have i made to enlist a comment regarding my age?

secondly, you said marty let drew play after the hit right? if thats the case, why would drew be good enough for a long TD scoring drive AFTER that but then sideline him once hes proven hes ok and hes led us to a TD?

GLightning
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Drew was hit hard and took a few seconds to get up. Wouldn't you check on your QB after that? Marty said he didn't know that Drew was hurt, but I agree that this could be a little bit of saving face.

Riverwarrior
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Micheal your honestly 33?

Anyway, Drew did look like he may have had a minor concussion when he got hit today. He got hit pretty hard and was kneeling for a while before he got back up. I thought that Flutie was going to come in at that time, because he was warming up on the sidelines, but I geuss Brees talked Marty into letting him stay in. I geuss Marty had faith in Drew after all.

Chargers
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
It is obvious that Marty will do anything in hopes of saving his job. I won't be surprised if he runs Rivers out there soon so at the end of the season his excuse can be that they had a rookie QB learning on the job, thus he deserves another year. Marty is a coward.

ChargerSpud
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
I take exception to you all exagerating at the same time about Marty lying.
i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

michael
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
how about this.....ill say what i feel like sayin and if you dont like it thats your own problem. take exception to whatever you want. have it again,89:

MARTY MAY BE LYING TO SAVE FACE ABOUT PULLING HIS STARTER....didja like that

Critter
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by: foty89
Brees did in fact get hit, it was called as a personal foul as well. As to if he had a concussion or not, I don’t know and don’t think it was reported during the game either way.



I take exception to your assertion that Marty may be “lying to save face”. That is not called for at all.



Go Bolt!

i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

Would you except "exagerating" to save face. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

foty89
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
Brees did in fact get hit, it was called as a personal foul as well. As to if he had a concussion or not, I don’t know and don’t think it was reported during the game either way.

I take exception to your assertion that Marty may be “lying to save face”. That is not called for at all.

Go Bolt!
i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

michael
09-25-2004, 10:54 PM
if anyone can rewind a tape of the game and report whether or not drew got hit that would be great.
did he have a concussion?
thanks in advance

xnet
09-25-2004, 11:03 PM
Anyone have video of the hit? If Drew did tell Cam that he was only 60% I'd have pulled him to. Granted I didn't see the game and all of this is hearsay.

TrumpetDude
09-25-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by: XnetZERO
Anyone have video of the hit? If Drew did tell Cam that he was only 60% I'd have pulled him to. Granted I didn't see the game and all of this is hearsay.

Drew told Cam he was 60% and Cam told Marty and the plug was pulled. I heard Brees say this in an interview bro.

xnet
09-25-2004, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: XnetZERO

Anyone have video of the hit? If Drew did tell Cam that he was only 60% I'd have pulled him to. Granted I didn't see the game and all of this is hearsay.



Drew told Cam he was 60% and Cam told Marty and the plug was pulled. I heard Brees say this in an interview bro.

Thanks Trumpet... I don't know what all the controversy is about then. I think people just want an excuse to rag on Marty and are making mountains out of molehills.

i/expressions/beer.gifi/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gifi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

rrogers
09-25-2004, 11:50 PM
I know this message will sound like I am defending Marty but I am not. I am NOT a Marty supporter but to his defense about the injury we don't know what Brees said at the sideline or what the trainer that evaluated his injury said. I think that Brees told him he was fine and the trainer was probably was trying to be supportive of the QB. Marty did the right thing and pulled him out once there was a problem. I also think that some of the mistakes he was making was not all from the concusion but from misreading the defense.