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mgpretzel
10-10-2004, 07:17 PM
No, we have way too much money in Philip. Phillip has more physical skilzzz and has the mental hes better. Plus Brees wouldn't resign to sit on the bench. (cleo is a good QB Him+ Rivers=2 good QB's

kiwibolt
10-10-2004, 07:18 PM
As much as I like Brees, the Chargers have invested way too much money in PR to keep Drew around. I think you'll see Drew in new colors next year despite his recent showing. Plus, I for one think that Lemon has some upside as a backup.

Hopefully Drew ends up being the next Trent Dilfer....Win the Superbowl and then search for a new team!!i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

yodafro
10-10-2004, 07:21 PM
Sure I'd resign Brees if he would'nt mind backing up Rivers as our #2

Boltsfan
10-10-2004, 07:31 PM
No Way!!!

goretek
10-10-2004, 08:08 PM
Nope.

dgjock
10-10-2004, 08:20 PM
not gonna happen.
If he keeps doing well, to resign him, SD has to break the bank, while SD has already paid Rivers a lot

blackjack21
10-10-2004, 08:24 PM
Maybe we should re-sign him, Tomlinson's quarterback rating took a hit today.

WHITELIGHTNING
10-11-2004, 09:53 AM
Nope way Brees gets resigned, Im still hoping for a trade. I can still remember 2002, he'll tank it.

Johndbr
10-11-2004, 11:29 AM
I get a laugh every time I come a crossed one of these threads. There is a very good chance and it is getting better and better every week that Brees will be offered a real contract next year. It all comes down to results. If we make it to the play offs or miss it by a game or two and Brees plays well every game, the Chargers will offer him a honest new contract. The ownership can not afford to lose a winning combination before the 2006 stadium referendum is voted on. It would be suicide for their goals. They want a new stadium for 3 very valid reason. 1) The Q s flat out old, San Diego and the Chargers both deserve a up grade 2) Luxury Boxes, that is major money maker in the NFL and the ownership wants the most of the best and as much of it as they can get. 3) They are still splitting revenues from the Q with the Padres, something I did not know until a few weeks ago and still do not really understand, but if that info is accurate I think we all would want out of there and into our own place so we had control over what happened and received the fruit of that control or.... They simply can not risk Rivers tanking and going 0-4 next year right before the vote. I know some of you think he is going to be Gods Gift to QBs and you deserve the right to you hopes and dreams, but the ownership can not make decisions based on hopes and dreams. They will never know how Rivers will do until they throw him in the deep end and see if he sinks or swims. If they have a proven alternative; aka Brees, they must go with him, considering that will be crunch time they have no choice.

Really you can blame Rivers and his agent for all of this. I am confident that if Rivers had even showed up for half of camp he would have been started infront of Brees, if for no other reason but to see if he sinks or swims. His hold out put him on the pine and he is going to stay there till Brees implodes or till after next years vote. He made his bed, he gets to sleep in it.

John B.

Critter
10-11-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by: Johndbr
I get a laugh every time I come a crossed one of these threads. There is a very good chance and it is getting better and better every week that Brees will be offered a real contract next year. It all comes down to results. If we make it to the play offs or miss it by a game or two and Brees plays well every game, the Chargers will offer him a honest new contract.

John B.

I totally disagree with this. The Chargers are not going to pay two QB salaries when that money could be spent on a WR, a LT or another DT. Drew's fate was sealed on draft day. IF we do offer him a contract it will simply be to trade him in the offseason for some value.

Don't even think about trading Rivers, it would be cap suicide.

ziggyp22
10-11-2004, 01:55 PM
NO WAY! Brees should be gone before I finish typing this post, but sadly he won't be.

Rip
10-11-2004, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by: ziggyp22
NO WAY! Brees should be gone before I finish typing this post, but sadly he won't be.

Are you french?

dgjock
10-11-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by: Rip

Originally posted by: ziggyp22

NO WAY! Brees should be gone before I finish typing this post, but sadly he won't be.



Are you french?

Just ignore him and hope he will go away, that's what I've been doing.

MoveitMister
10-11-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by: ziggyp22
NO WAY! Brees should be gone before I finish typing this post, but sadly he won't be.Is there anything in Chargerland that makes you happy?

ziggyp22
10-11-2004, 05:37 PM
Yes, Gates, Tomlinson, the defense, Caldwell, etc,etc, etc. The team has great potential. I believe that Marty and Drew have to go!
If they had a decent quarterback playing this year, the Chargers would be 5 and 0, but they had Brees. Can anyone, even you Brees backers, say that the Chargers shouldn't be 5 and 0?
Trade Brees now while everyone is fooled. Get Rivers in there ASAP!

WHITELIGHTNING
10-11-2004, 06:26 PM
Look Brees is a great guy an has done well to this point. Fact is he's gone at seasons end so let him go to his new club and get our new QB reps in live game action. Big Ben is doing fine in Pitt I see no reason why PR cant do even better. PR was said to best the best suited to start of this rookie class anyway.

riverhead
10-11-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr
I get a laugh every time I come a crossed one of these threads. There is a very good chance and it is getting better and better every week that Brees will be offered a real contract next year. It all comes down to results. If we make it to the play offs or miss it by a game or two and Brees plays well every game, the Chargers will offer him a honest new contract. The ownership can not afford to lose a winning combination before the 2006 stadium referendum is voted on. It would be suicide for their goals. They want a new stadium for 3 very valid reason. 1) The Q s flat out old, San Diego and the Chargers both deserve a up grade 2) Luxury Boxes, that is major money maker in the NFL and the ownership wants the most of the best and as much of it as they can get. 3) They are still splitting revenues from the Q with the Padres, something I did not know until a few weeks ago and still do not really understand, but if that info is accurate I think we all would want out of there and into our own place so we had control over what happened and received the fruit of that control or.... They simply can not risk Rivers tanking and going 0-4 next year right before the vote. I know some of you think he is going to be Gods Gift to QBs and you deserve the right to you hopes and dreams, but the ownership can not make decisions based on hopes and dreams. They will never know how Rivers will do until they throw him in the deep end and see if he sinks or swims. If they have a proven alternative; aka Brees, they must go with him, considering that will be crunch time they have no choice.



Really you can blame Rivers and his agent for all of this. I am confident that if Rivers had even showed up for half of camp he would have been started infront of Brees, if for no other reason but to see if he sinks or swims. His hold out put him on the pine and he is going to stay there till Brees implodes or till after next years vote. He made his bed, he gets to sleep in it.



John B.
"He made his bed, he gets to sleep in it"?? All this kid wants to do is play football. He doesn't understand contracts and holdouts and playing politics. He is a good 'ole southern boy that lives and breathes the game and quite frankly with all of the attention and hype he has received (actually more like...endured) has been caught up with slick talking agents, media and worst of all critics who do not know him and what he is about.

He stated at the start of the season that he would prepare as if he would be called out for the first snap and he also stated that he wanted whatever was best for the team. He is not the only so called "hold-out" that today graces the gridiron for the Bolts. He'll do fine. I've watched the kid for the last four years and while I will agree that the college game is not the pro game, a forward pass is a forward pass, a defensive read is a defensive read, a knack for winning is just that and a leader is a leader is a leader.

Yep, he made his bed but this kid will never lay down. Just have a litte patience and when he get's his chance he make a believer out of everyone.

Kudos for the Breezer also. He is really developing nicely and will make some team a valuable QB.

TrumpetDude
10-12-2004, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by: Johndbr
I get a laugh every time I come a crossed one of these threads. There is a very good chance and it is getting better and better every week that Brees will be offered a real contract next year. It all comes down to results. If we make it to the play offs or miss it by a game or two and Brees plays well every game, the Chargers will offer him a honest new contract. The ownership can not afford to lose a winning combination before the 2006 stadium referendum is voted on. It would be suicide for their goals.

Realize this as you are laughing, the Chargers will have to outbid every other team in the NFL looking for Drew Brees' services. Do you think the Chargers are going to outbid everybody for Drew to be the starter in San Diego next year ? Now I am the one who is chuckling at the notion the Chargers will outbid every other team in the NFL afer we drafted Rivers. This make a whole lot of sense ....

Hmmmmkay...right....i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

WHITELIGHTNING
10-12-2004, 01:03 PM
I for one am getting tired of all this brees garbage. He is gone after this season get over it. i would love to see some AJ magic and get something for him though, The Bolts do have a pile invested in him as it is.

chargers2005
10-12-2004, 01:24 PM
If rivers would have started this year he would have stunk it up out there. What I am trying to say is that brees was just as good as rivers coming out of college. I dont care how much money we have in rivers (we shouldnt have taken him, thats our fault) brees is going to be a very good quarterback for years to come.

HellsBells
10-12-2004, 04:35 PM
Wish it were possible...

Chargeroo
10-12-2004, 04:58 PM
Think about this. Brees was a second round pick. He wasn't ready for the NFL when he was drafted, the last two years prove that. Now, he's coming around - fifth rated passer in the league, and some people are saying trade him for a third round pick. What's wrong with that logic? Use a second to get him, spend three years training him and now, when he's showing great progress, trade him away for a third? That doesn't wash with me. - He's worth a first or they should just sign him to a long term contract.

Johndbr
10-12-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude
Realize this as you are laughing, the Chargers will have to outbid every other team in the NFL looking for Drew Brees' services. Do you think the Chargers are going to outbid everybody for Drew to be the starter in San Diego next year ? Now I am the one who is chuckling at the notion the Chargers will outbid every other team in the NFL after we drafted Rivers. This make a whole lot of sense ....
Hmmmmkay...right....

Ok one person made sense, since my last post. True enough, Brees will be a the action block at the end of the season, which is why no one is going to trade anything for him now, but maybe a apple for apple. That is where I get my biggest laugh, in this case the Chargers made their bed and have to sleep in it. If the Ownership honestly wants a new stadium, they are going to have to pay top dollar for Brees to get it. Hopefully they will finally learn their lesson over this, you can not run a football team this way and expect to get things out of the voters. Go to any college and ask any Physical fitness major how he would build a football team in the NFL. Almost all of them will tell you, first you have to choose what type of team you want, offensive or defensive? and then they will tell you that you have to start with the line. Lets say you want to do it the way it appears the Chargers want to do it. First you get your defensive line, then you get your offensive line and then you get your key players. How you choose those is basically up to your personality, but you must start with the lines. I do not care who you bring in, you will go no where with out the O & D lines. The O-Line must protect the passer and open up holes for your running game and your D line must stuff the run and rush the passer; if you do not do have that, you have nothing. That is one of the things that really bug me about the last few years and everyone blaming the QBs for making bad decisions and mistakes, exactly what were they supposed to do? It was like trying to push a truck up hill. Ya you can do it, but man is it going to be a pain. If Brees or Flutie had a good O-Line they would have been just as effective then as you see Brees being today. You can do nothing running for your life and that is exactly what the Ownership was expected and that is wrong. You do not blame the QBs because the people you brought in to run the team do not get the supporting players they need to succeed, you simply do not do it. Of course that has not stopped them, but that does not make it right.

But put all that BS as side for a sec, sit back, relax and think about this a minute. The Chargers need a new Stadium, how are they going to get it? The Ownership does not only want San Diego to pay their fare share, they want want them to pay top dollar for it. What is the difference you ask, basically they are insisting on building it in Mission Valley where the current one is. I am sorry, not only is that some of the most expensive land in the Country right now, there is no way the City is going to be able to get State and Federal assistance to build there. There is simply nothing wrong with the area. When I drive down Friars Rd, I see nothing wrong; it is a fantastic place to be, how can they get the funding assistance they need if the Chargers Build there? The answer is they can't. So every special interest group in the County is going to be out beating the bushes and making sure everyone knows exactly how much that stadium is going to cost them; however. it gets worse, much worse. San Diego is desperate for a new Air Port and has been for close to 20 years now. They have up graded and manipulated Lindberg Field as much as they can. Airports are not like buildings where you can simply add another story, there is only so much you can do with them and when you pin them in like Lindberg Field is you have written your own epitaph. In 2006 not only will there $600 million dollar Stadium on the ballot, but

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 04:47 PM
John B. -

This make no logical senses and is unsupported by fact. You assume no funding because of your "drive-by" to designate the area as blighted.

You assume the Chargers need to pay top dollar to retain Drew Brees to get a new stadium. I can not tell you how off the radar screen that is but you keep pounding that drum.

Jayree427
10-13-2004, 05:17 PM
Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by: Jayree427
Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.

He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?

Jayree427
10-13-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: Jayree427

Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.



He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?

Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him

Johndbr
10-13-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude
John B. -
This make no logical senses and is unsupported by fact. You assume no funding because of your "drive-by" to designate the area as blighted.
You assume the Chargers need to pay top dollar to retain Drew Brees to get a new stadium. I can not tell you how off the radar screen that is but you keep pounding that drum.

OK Trump, the ball is in your court. How do you convince the State and Federal agnecies to provide the funding? What will convince them? Now if you are refering to funding coming from other sources, who? and why would they be investing?

John B.

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

John B. -

This make no logical senses and is unsupported by fact. You assume no funding because of your "drive-by" to designate the area as blighted.

You assume the Chargers need to pay top dollar to retain Drew Brees to get a new stadium. I can not tell you how off the radar screen that is but you keep pounding that drum.



OK Trump, the ball is in your court. How do you convince the State and Federal agnecies to provide the funding? What will convince them? Now if you are refering to funding coming from other sources, who? and why would they be investing?



John B.

In order to get partial funding for the area (166 acres) the site would have to be designated as "blighted" and designated as such for redevelopment. We are talking about a 166 acre asphalt parking lot with a 40 year old stadium on it.....this has been discussed by the city council and did not seem to be an insurmountable task. Do you have reason to suspect otherwise ?

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

John B. -

This make no logical senses and is unsupported by fact. You assume no funding because of your "drive-by" to designate the area as blighted.

You assume the Chargers need to pay top dollar to retain Drew Brees to get a new stadium. I can not tell you how off the radar screen that is but you keep pounding that drum.



OK Trump, the ball is in your court. How do you convince the State and Federal agnecies to provide the funding? What will convince them? Now if you are refering to funding coming from other sources, who? and why would they be investing?



John B.


The government has funds available for redevelopment of blighted areas. This is common knowledge.

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by: Jayree427

Originally posted by: TrumpetDude


Originally posted by: Jayree427



Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.

Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him


He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?

You are missing the main point. To keep Brees requires the Chargers to TAG him or outbid every other team looking to retain his services. This becomes more than just do we keep Drew Brees. You are not thinking about cap implications and the fact you have a 40 million dollar first round draft pick with superior tools riding the pine.

Chargeroo
10-13-2004, 05:41 PM
I thought this thread was about Brees - as in should he be signed again. How'd it get turned into a stadium thread? Do people actually think the outcome of the stadium is going to hinge on Drew? I don't believe that, I wonder if others do?

Johndbr, I think you may be one of just a few that think the stadium depends on what they do with Drew.

Johndbr
10-13-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude
The government has funds available for redevelopment of blighted areas. This is common knowledge.

Oh come on Trump, you are avoiding the question. Yes I know about the Federal and State funds, I have mentioned them in at least a dozen posts and even explained it in a post, comparing the Chargers situation with the Padres.

How on earth are you going to prove to the Federal and State Governments that Mission Valley is a blighted area? What is your angle? Where are the dilapidated buildings? Where is the overwhelming crime? Where is the imploding infrastructure that can not be fixed without a major influx of money? and last but not least, how are you going to convince them no other private organization will come in a invest in the area because of the over all state of the community?

Did you ever go to the area were Pet Co park is before it was built? It was hideous! I used to go there, because I worked in security while in College. Any one with anything there of value either got out or had 24 hour security there to protect it. You could see drug deals going down in the street, while lookouts ran up and down it watching out for cops. Almost every time I did a perimeter check I was approached by hookers looking for a trick. Sorry Bro, you can not compare Mission Valley to what East Village was before Pet Co was built there, there is absolutely no comparison. Pet Co has not only dramatically improved the area, it extended the Gas Lamp district area and made the Convention Center a much nicer place to go. The Chargers really do need to look at doing something like that. Pet Co was a win win situation for the City and the team, hopefully the Chargers will pursue the same thing.

John B.

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

The government has funds available for redevelopment of blighted areas. This is common knowledge.



Oh come on Trump, you are avoiding the question. Yes I know about the Federal and State funds, I have mentioned them in at least a dozen posts and even explained it in a post, comparing the Chargers situation with the Padres.



How on earth are you going to prove to the Federal and State Governments that Mission Valley is a blighted area? What is your angle? Where are the dilapidated buildings? Where is the overwhelming crime? Where is the imploding infrastructure that can not be fixed without a major influx of money? and last but not least, how are you going to convince them no other private organization will come in a invest in the area because of the over all state of the community?



Did you ever go to the area were Pet Co park is before it was built? It was hideous! I used to go there, because I worked in security while in College. Any one with anything there of value either got out or had 24 hour security there to protect it. You could see drug deals going down in the street, while lookouts ran up and down it watching out for cops. Almost every time I did a perimeter check I was approached by hookers looking for a trick. Sorry Bro, you can not compare Mission Valley to what East Village was before Pet Co was built there, there is absolutely no comparison. Pet Co has not only dramatically improved the area, it extended the Gas Lamp district area and made the Convention Center a much nicer place to go. The Chargers really do need to look at doing something like that. Pet Co was a win win situation for the City and the team, hopefully the Chargers will pursue the same thing.



John B.

I answered your question. The stadium is 40 years old and on asphalt which is in serious disrepair..... Across from oil tanks and a active stream bed. You either accept this as "blighted" or say no way. Downtown San Diego land value is prime real estate and was designated as "blighted".

You either agree or disagree this area can be designated as "blighted" so as not to chase the proverbial tail and cut to the chase.

Jayree427
10-13-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: Jayree427


Originally posted by: TrumpetDude




Originally posted by: Jayree427







Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.



Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him





He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?



You are missing the main point. To keep Brees requires the Chargers to TAG him or outbid every other team looking to retain his services. This becomes more than just do we keep Drew Brees. You are not thinking about cap implications and the fact you have a 40 million dollar first round draft pick with superior tools riding the pine.

I know what your talking about, I know about the cap and the status Brees will be in next year and the fact we have a lot of money invested in Rivers. What I'm trying to say is do we keep him if he has a good season, thats all. Lets say if the bidding of Brees isn't so high in free agency, should we resign him if the price was right? This situation is interesting because its not a 35 year old qb its a 25 year old qb that is gettting better each year and to see him walk out and possibly be a star in another team could be hard to take espcially if Rivers doesn't reach the chargers expectaion. Bottomline would the chargers keep brees for the right price?

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 06:15 PM
I do not know how anyone can look at the second oldest stadium in the NFL and also look at the disrepair of the parking lot and say this area is not "blighted". The place looks like hell man. I do not hink you have taken the time to look at the "Village Concept" the Chargers were pitching. Read up man because it models alot of the same things as Pet Co.

TrumpetDude
10-13-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by: Jayree427

Originally posted by: TrumpetDude


Originally posted by: Jayree427




Originally posted by: TrumpetDude








Originally posted by: Jayree427















Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.







Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him











He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?







You are missing the main point. To keep Brees requires the Chargers to TAG him or outbid every other team looking to retain his services. This becomes more than just do we keep Drew Brees. You are not thinking about cap implications and the fact you have a 40 million dollar first round draft pick with superior tools riding the pine.



I know what your talking about, I know about the cap and the status Brees will be in next year and the fact we have a lot of money invested in Rivers. What I'm trying to say is do we keep him if he has a good season, thats all. Lets say if the bidding of Brees isn't so high in free agency, should we resign him if the price was right? This situation is interesting because its not a 35 year old qb its a 25 year old qb that is gettting better each year and to see him walk out and possibly be a star in another team could be hard to take espcially if Rivers doesn't reach the chargers expectaion. Bottomline would the chargers keep brees for the right price?


I can see no scenario where Brees would get an offer from the Bolts short of a major injury to Rivers between NOW and whenever some other team signs Brees.

In other words, the Chargers would have to cut either Flutie or Lemon because the Chargers will not be carrying 4 Q.B.'s on the 53 man squad next year. Flutie is cap friendly and signed for 3 years. Lemon has tremendous upside. Brees as an unrestricted free agent signed by the Chargers would erase alot of opportunities to fill holes on the lines and at WR and not be fiscally responsible to the other 52 players IMHO. i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

Johndbr
10-13-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
Johndbr, I think you may be one of just a few that think the stadium depends on what they do with Drew.

Well there is always the counter argument that Rivers will be better than Brees and lead us to the play offs too; however that is a risk of the opposite happening too, but think about it, if Rivers tanks how are the Chargers going to get the needed votes? The Padres went to the World Series and the vote was still close. I can not see how the Chargers expect to get the needed votes if the team is still considered a loser when the issue comes up to vote. The Chargers need the band-wagoners, how are they going to get the needed votes without them?

John B.

P.S. if you remove the stadium issue from the picture, Brees will be gone at the end of the season. Odds are if Rivers succeeds we will got 8-8 next year maybe 7-9. Like I said if Rivers is successful, key words, we will probably make the play offs in 2006. However the question in my head is, is the Ownership willing to take that risk considering the new Stadium is a issue and has to be dealt with now.

Jayree427
10-13-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: Jayree427


Originally posted by: TrumpetDude




Originally posted by: Jayree427








Originally posted by: TrumpetDude
















Originally posted by: Jayree427































Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.















Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him























He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?















You are missing the main point. To keep Brees requires the Chargers to TAG him or outbid every other team looking to retain his services. This becomes more than just do we keep Drew Brees. You are not thinking about cap implications and the fact you have a 40 million dollar first round draft pick with superior tools riding the pine.







I know what your talking about, I know about the cap and the status Brees will be in next year and the fact we have a lot of money invested in Rivers. What I'm trying to say is do we keep him if he has a good season, thats all. Lets say if the bidding of Brees isn't so high in free agency, should we resign him if the price was right? This situation is interesting because its not a 35 year old qb its a 25 year old qb that is gettting better each year and to see him walk out and possibly be a star in another team could be hard to take espcially if Rivers doesn't reach the chargers expectaion. Bottomline would the chargers keep brees for the right price?





I can see no scenario where Brees would get an offer from the Bolts short of a major injury to Rivers between NOW and whenever some other team signs Brees.



In other words, the Chargers would have to cut either Flutie or Lemon because the Chargers will not be carrying 4 Q.B.'s on the 53 man squad next year. Flutie is cap friendly and signed for 3 years. Lemon has tremendous upside. Brees as an unrestricted free agent signed by the Chargers would erase alot of opportunities to fill holes on the lines and at WR and not be fiscally responsible to the other 52 players IMHO.

If Brees performs well this year I would rather him instead of both Flutie and Lemon ( I dont know there exact salary or sigin bonus). That is if Brees asking price wasn't too high.

Johndbr
10-14-2004, 02:16 AM
<u>Just a note folks, when you do the quote function, you can get rid of 99% of those large gaps simply by deleting the spaces in between them. If you did that it would make your post a lot easier to read.</u>

Sorry Trump I did not see your first post, just your second one, but I do believe your idea of blighted and the State and Federal Governments idea of blighted are two different things. You are correct that the City Council has disgusted this and they have come to the conclusion that they have a very slim chance to get it to fly. Blighted does not only mean something old is there, they also take into consideration the condition it is in and the surrounding areas too. Factors like crime and health concerns are looked at, it has to be a area that other investors will not go because of those consideration. The concept behind those funds is to drive a way crime and at the same time provide jobs for the community as well as improving the looks of the area. You really have little crime going on in the area, except for the faider games of course and you will not be adding very many new jobs and other investors will not be motivated to invest there because of the improvements, they would come anyway.

I am not aware of any other major project that has received that kind of funding under similar circumstance, but on top of that the Q is really not a eye sore and it is not blighted either. You could have easily made the same statement the day the Q had its first game there. Looks wise nothing has really changed. Yes it is a 40 year old stadium and it is surrounded by asphalt, but it is not in disrepair, it has not been abandoned for years, it is not falling down and it really does not look bad. It looks like a Stadium should look and to point out the asphalt surrounding it, would be flat out funny to the bureaucrats who would come to evaluate the place, what else would be there? Of course there is asphalt there. Every time something happens at the Q you have to have parking for thousands, even the College games draws thousand and the most minor functions bring in the high hundreds and that only happens when the place is given out free of charge for charity or something. If you look at the Q and the surrounding areas and compare that to other projects similar to this one you will find you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

John B.

WHITELIGHTNING
10-14-2004, 06:31 AM
Dayum I forgot what this thread was about six miles back.

slam22
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
If the Chargers win this weekend and Drew plays well then I don't see any way that he would be traded. We'd be 4-2 with at least a chance of making the playoffs. If he walks at the end of the season then that's the way it goes. So what if we don't get 3rd round draft choice. I'd rather have a chance to win this year with him playing well than trade him just so we can get a mid round draft choice.

dgjock
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by: dswanson
I personally don't see anyone getting traded before the deadline. The organization needs to get back in the habit of winning and Bress is doing a good job of helping with that right now. Plus I think it sends the wrong message to the other players, that management is sacrificing this year for Rivers development. I'd rather them just play this year out and do the bes they can, then let Rivers have the reigns next year. I realize we don't get anything for Brees that way for next year, but I still think experiencing winning is more imprtant to this teams development than another player.

100% agreed

dswanson
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
I personally don't see anyone getting traded before the deadline. The organization needs to get back in the habit of winning and Bress is doing a good job of helping with that right now. Plus I think it sends the wrong message to the other players, that management is sacrificing this year for Rivers development. I'd rather them just play this year out and do the bes they can, then let Rivers have the reigns next year. I realize we don't get anything for Brees that way for next year, but I still think experiencing winning is more imprtant to this teams development than another player.

WHITELIGHTNING
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
I hope brees is gone before the trade deadline, but he must not be that well liked in the NFL because other teams arent knocking down AJ's door. Brees is a good guy and all but he aint no great QB thats why people will wait until the end of the year. It has been tossed around that Green Bay thinks a 3rd round draft choice is to much for him, that tells me he isn't look upon as a very good prospect at this point in his career.

Johndbr
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by: desertdevil
I hope they keep Brees and trade PR around the draft or preseason so they won't take a hit on the old Cap. but I am a realist and know that the best is that the resign brees for a year or two before PR will take over. Go bolts, and Vote for Brees

how would they get out of getting hit in the cap by trading next year? I know we will have the cap room and I know the hit will be minus this years portion of the signing bonus, so it would be around 12 mill, but I do not see how we can get out of it all together? What am I missing?

John B.

desertdevil
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
I hope they keep Brees and trade PR around the draft or preseason so they won't take a hit on the old Cap. but I am a realist and know that the best is that the resign brees for a year or two before PR will take over. Go bolts, and Vote for Brees

spysnipedis
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
wouldn't the chargers feel like idiots if they trade brees

Bolts4Life21
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Food for thought. Everybody has there thoughts. Who knows what will happen, but we'll know a lot more after the deadline.

GOBOLTS4Life
10-14-2004, 10:50 AM
I know alot of you think that a trade is imminent., I know you think that AJ will get the most out of drew and trade him for the best deal.. Well Think about this for just a second.. I dont think Drew will be traded. I think at the end of the season Drew will walk, and heres what AJ will get out of the deal.. AJ will get to keep Marty as his head coach and most importantly AJ will keep his first ever GM job a little bit longer..

Now I know your thinking WHat??? am I on drugs?? Well the reason I say this is because, Last year before the start of the Season everyone was saying how this could not only be Marty's last year as a head coach, but AJ smith could also be gone as well if the Chargers dont improve.. Well the Chargers are improving, and improving very nicely, I dont think AJ or Marty want to jeopardize thier jobs by getting rid of Drew, and having a rookie QB taking over when they are doing so good. There is always next year for Rivers to start, Everyone knows Rivers is the Future of the Chargers, The chargers are winning, AJ did good in the draft and I think if he has a winning season this year he has some Job Security along with Marty as well. Rivers is learning now, and a good year from the sidelines learning and watching can only help him. AJ is getting what he wants from Drew and in the end the best he can do is let Drew go where he wants under his terms...

desertdevil
10-15-2004, 04:53 PM
I agree totally with you on that, Winning is what is important. As for the salary cap issue I am still fuzzing on how it works, but the bonus is what will hurt the team this year if he was traded before the deadline. But I could be misinformed.

tmvalence4
10-15-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: Jayree427


Originally posted by: TrumpetDude




Originally posted by: Jayree427







Brees will not be resign espically if he leads this team to the playoffs. The chargers invested so much money into Rivers. But what would be a gamble after this season is this, lets say Brees leads us to the playoffs. Then at the end of the season you have a 25 year old qb that just lead your team to the playoffs. Do you resign him knowing what he is now capable of doing or you let him go and start a qb that hasn't much experience.



Either way the main point is if brees has a good season do you keep him





He is an unrestricted free agent. So the question becomes, "do you outbid the teams looking to sign Drew Brees"?



You are missing the main point. To keep Brees requires the Chargers to TAG him or outbid every other team looking to retain his services. This becomes more than just do we keep Drew Brees. You are not thinking about cap implications and the fact you have a 40 million dollar first round draft pick with superior tools riding the pine. HOW do you know Rivers is SUPERIOR??? WE do not know anything yet.How many great college QB's have gone on to BLOW it .. Was'nt JAY FIEDLER a great QB?? I'm sure you can produce a list better than I..Whats that old saying,A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush..

TrumpetDude
10-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by: tmvalence4
HOW do you know Rivers is SUPERIOR??? WE do not know anything yet.How many great college QB's have gone on to BLOW it .. Was'nt JAY FIEDLER a great QB?? I'm sure you can produce a list better than I..Whats that old saying,A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush..


I said superior tools. I did not say River was superior. Rivers has superior tools (stronger and more accurate arm - taller - read the blitzing Seahawk defense pretty dang good, etc).

Chargeroo
10-15-2004, 09:32 PM
Ouote from tmvalence4

Was'nt JAY FIEDLER a great QB??

No - he didn't even go to a major college.

sd21run
10-18-2004, 10:10 PM
I'm starting to see why Raider fans have so many bad things to say about Charger fans. This is madness.

TrumpetDude
10-18-2004, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by: sd21run
I'm starting to see why Raider fans have so many bad things to say about Charger fans. This is madness.

Just put the BS filter on high alert and roll with it...... i/expressions/SDG_Bolt.gif

brees2gates
10-19-2004, 12:51 PM
tough decision, glad a dont have to make it, besides whose use to being the goat more than the white collars in the san diego organazation

SDRaiderH8er
10-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude

Originally posted by: sd21run

I'm starting to see why Raider fans have so many bad things to say about Charger fans. This is madness.



Just put the BS filter on high alert and roll with it...... I did, I just have to remember to stop and clean it every 1/2 Hour

WHITELIGHTNING
10-22-2004, 04:00 PM
Mew BS filters aint cheap either, and man when they blow up from cloggage, the BS really flies.

efunk55
10-23-2004, 11:16 AM
This is what I believe the Chargers should do.....


Continue to go with Brees. Right now he's doing the job.... We did lose a close one... but he doesn't play defense... we still are vulnerable to the big pass play.

On the offensive side of the ball.... he's gotten better at managing the game... I see the potential in him... Plus he's got a big heart and he's focused on improving himself.

It's hard to say who would be starting for the Chargers because Rivers wasn't signed yet.... and I truely believe that if Rivers would have gotten into camp when he was supposed to, things would be different. I'm not saying that he would've beat out Brees... it's hard to say.

Brees is a little more mobile than Rivers at the moment from what I saw in pre-season.

It's kind of like take your pick.... Immobile Rivers... or mobile Brees...


I say keep them both.... let's battle it out in 2005 camp.... and may be best QB win the starting job next year.... cut Flutie in training camp so that he has a chance to find another spot elsewhere.

I truely believe that Brees will except whatever role is handed to him....

probin
10-23-2004, 12:06 PM
Brees has done well 4 out of 6 games. I think at this point we are better of to work with Brees this season then to switch and take the chances with PR.
Even Brees haters know this is true.i/expressions/SDG_Drew_Brees.gifText

TrumpetDude
10-23-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by: efunk55
This is what I believe the Chargers should do.....

Continue to go with Brees. Right now he's doing the job.... We did lose a close one... but he doesn't play defense... we still are vulnerable to the big pass play.

On the offensive side of the ball.... he's gotten better at managing the game... I see the potential in him... Plus he's got a big heart and he's focused on improving himself.

It's hard to say who would be starting for the Chargers because Rivers wasn't signed yet.... and I truely believe that if Rivers would have gotten into camp when he was supposed to, things would be different. I'm not saying that he would've beat out Brees... it's hard to say.

Brees is a little more mobile than Rivers at the moment from what I saw in pre-season.

It's kind of like take your pick.... Immobile Rivers... or mobile Brees...

I say keep them both.... let's battle it out in 2005 camp.... and may be best QB win the starting job next year.... cut Flutie in training camp so that he has a chance to find another spot elsewhere.

I truely believe that Brees will except whatever role is handed to him....

Hey dude - Welcome to the Chargers house !!! Nice post and good takes full of optimism.

Tomorrow should prove to be a pivotal test for the Bolts. A win against the NFC Champs, despite their record, could be the panacea to catapult the Chargers to the wins needed before the Bye.

spysnipedis
10-23-2004, 10:49 PM
they got the raiders next week too, get a win there and bam bye week week and continue on.

TrumpetDude
10-24-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by: spysnipedis
they got the raiders next week too, get a win there and bam bye week week and continue on.

A clean streak of wins to the BYE ..... Bank It

RMANCIL
10-24-2004, 07:07 PM
The way Brees is playing along with much better pass protection plan on seeing much more of Brees.
In fact based on how the Bengals have looked with Palmer if Brees keeps this play up I hope the make him a strong offer for next season .

Rivers is a hope, Brees at this time is a dream come true. At last a QB and a ol that can make the big play and a defense that can make a stand. It is great to be pulling for a winner.

kidtwist
10-24-2004, 09:11 PM
If Brees continues to play at his current level, I think the Chragers will Franchise Tag him and trade him. They could get a first round draft pick, even if might not be in this coming years draft. Say 2006. If they let him walk they get nothing. They didn't draft Phillip Rivers to trade him or sit him. He will be the starting quarterback next year.

TrumpetDude
10-24-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by: kidtwist
If Brees continues to play at his current level, I think the Chragers will Franchise Tag him and trade him. They could get a first round draft pick, even if might not be in this coming years draft. Say 2006. If they let him walk they get nothing. They didn't draft Phillip Rivers to trade him or sit him. He will be the starting quarterback next year.

Nobody will give up Two First Round Draft picks for Brees if you Franchise Tag him

RMANCIL
10-25-2004, 10:26 AM
If Brees can lead this team into the playoffs I am not totally sure he is history.I sure hope that the Bolts and him can get together the idea of keeping him and Rivers is solid. Teams need two good QB and having a fair competition in the preseason works for me.

It may also possible to transition tag him and then trade him .

TrumpetDude
10-25-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL
It may also possible to transition tag him and then trade him .

This TAG makes most sense financially. If Brees is indeed traded, the Chargers would get a Compensatory pick as agreed by the NFL and the NFL Players Association (low round pick draft pick - maybe a token 5th or 6th - I am not sure). We would retain the right the match any offers (reads massive bonus paid to Brees) but the Chargers do have the healthiest cap space in the NFL next year (under $50 million).

We could throw the jack at Brees but here in lies the wisdom of addressing the other holes on the team. There gets a point of diminishing returns where we have proportionally too much money invested in one position where it hampers other team areas of need.

Ed McGuire is the key here as the numbers guys for analysis - Ed can project what it will take to keep Brees if this is indeed a course of action. I am sure this analysis has already been done months ago. Again, I would love to be a fly on the wall for those discussions.

fanfromwayback
10-25-2004, 05:55 PM
Brees is having a fine year. He will grow and improve, with every game and every year he plays. IF IF IF the chargers make the play-offs, and Brees does as well as I think he will do, I would sign Brees to a contract and keep him at least one more year. If we make the play-offs and if we trade him after making the play-offs for the first time in this millennium you can bet that HE WILL HAUNT us for years to come! And you can bet that we will not make the play-off the following year with PR. PR will take time to develop, no doubt about it!

spysnipedis
10-26-2004, 12:05 AM
the answer to this THREAD IS IF. only IF brees can take us somewhere, i would love to see him stay in SDiego. even if we barely miss it. he has done well, and would be an very good back-up in case Rivers got hurt. we would have a Great back-up and nothing to worry about.

jsdfan
10-26-2004, 12:15 AM
you may have heard the sayin'...."a bird in the hand is worth two in the coop."

BreesLightning
10-26-2004, 12:17 AM
If the chargers dont francize him and sign him then they are idiots. Hes playing great and if he continues to play like this the rest of the year it would make no sense to let him go and put your hopes on an unproven Rivers.

We traded away Vick who had more hype to him then Rivers. Great move because i dont think Vick is much of a QB, great runner but not a great QB. Would any of you trade Rivers for Vick? How about Brees for Vick? I wouldnt make either trade.

Maybe we wont know what the best move will be untill Rivers gets some action.

Theres a lot of talk here about the money they threw at Rivers, its a 6 yr 40 mill contract but if he doesnt play, the contract wont cost them that much, 14 mill is garenteed. Yes still lots of cash to be riding the pine but Flutie has made almost as much to ride the pine. I am not convinced that Drews days are numbered in SD.

I would hate to see him go

RMANCIL
10-26-2004, 09:27 AM
To be sure Rivers contract has a lot of incentives that would not be paid if he fails to win the starters job.
You do need two QB in the N.F.L. now I don't know if Brees would come back but the idea of having two young qb and a competition in TC well it works for me.

As far as the doe look at the Skins and the Browns along with the Giants,Fish, Raiders,Colts to name but a few, the Bolts could after Flutie steps aside keep both QB.

TrumpetDude
10-26-2004, 11:09 AM
If Flutie does step aside we would only gain about a million dollars in cap space. Flutie is very cap friendly. This is not enough money in savings. At least it does not even appear to scratch the surface to compensate. The cuts (beyond Flutie) would have to go deeper (LT restructuring ?)

How do we keep a Tagged QB at over 7 million dollars and Rivers at 6 million per year.

I have never seen this done in the NFL. Not to say it can not be done for the first time. There are no teams which I have ever seen again where you are paying this kind of money and still have a winning team.

Kerry Collins and Kurt Warner are getting vet contracts which do not come anywhere close to what a TAGGED player plus what Rivers will make in one year (regardless to the degrees of reasonably achievable incentives).

What would make me feel 100% better as a fan is if one of you link wizards could show some comparitive examples where teams can pay proportionally the same amounts of money we are speculating on keeping Brees and having a winning record.

Do the Patriots have this model ? Are there any models which have parallels to give an old fan a warm fuzzy ? I have not seen proof positive ... yet

RMANCIL
10-26-2004, 12:16 PM
Rivers will sign a six-year contract and ESPN.com has confirmed that the base value is $41 million. The deal includes roughly $18 million-$19 million in guaranteed money ($14.275 million signing bonus plus other guarantees) and an additional $11 million in incentives.

So lets use 18.5 guaranteed money divided into six years we get 3.08 cap per year with out the incentives
now I don;t know all the details of the incentives but some of them are can be going to the pro bowl and games played and some can be much easier like making the roster.

Lets give him 500k just to give the benfit of the doubt. That puts him at 3.58 per year which I think is much higher cap than what is real.

Now Flutie was 2.261,400 guaranteed money and he took about half this year so 1.300,000

That means that this year the Bolts 3.58 plus 1.3 plus Brees at 2.291 equal 7.171 in qb salarys this year.

The Colts Manning 15.360 by himself 2003
The Pac Farve 9.159 by himself 2003
Rams Warner 8,767,457
Jax Brunnell 8,755,200
Jets Pennington, 6,839,807
Jets Testaverde, 4,522,447
Bengals Kitna, 3,626,600
Bengals Palmer 2,500,000
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports...byposition.aspx?pos=3
(http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=3
)
You can dig some if you like but it looks like Brees could sign for 3.5 or 3.6 and have a savings considering Rivers may miss out on some incentives if he fails to start.

The top two QB would be less than what several teams are paying Colts,Pack Skins , Bills we on the surface are better able to fit Brees than the Pack who is rumored to be the number one team after him.

Johndbr
10-26-2004, 12:20 PM
OMG; I am in shock, there are others considering the possibility of keeping Brees too. They must be having a great day in hell, down hill skiing. The one thing the Chargers should not do is franchise tag Brees, either they offer him a real contract or let him walk. If everything goes according to plan, he will have the opportunity to have the best contract of his career so far and maybe his life. Trying to stand in the way of that is just asking for it. Assuming the Chargers make it to the play offs, they need to sh!t or get off of the pot. Personally, the jury is still out on Brees for me, I want to see what he does during crunch time before I really say we should keep him. That will be in the first week of December when we play the donkeys again, but if he continues to play as well as he has, the Chargers have to try and keep him.


How do we keep a Tagged QB at over 7 million dollars and Rivers at 6 million per year.

I have never seen this done in the NFL. Not to say it can not be done for the first time. There are no teams which I have ever seen again where you are paying this kind of money and still have a winning team.


You have not seen it yet, because there has not been enough money in the pool for it to be done. Taking everything into consideration, we will have somewhere between 30 and 50 million under the cap available to work with. Baring the fire sale of players, I have never seen that happen before. On top of that the players on the Chargers will restructure their contracts to keep Brees, if they feel that with them they have a real shot at the Super Bowl in 2005 and without him they will tank. Brees to will work with the structure of his contract to stay on the Chargers if he feels it means a real chance at going to the Super Bowl and he will take less too.

What needs to happen to keep Brees. He needs to keep playing at the level he has been all year. He must be offered a real contract that is above Rivers and is at least close to the other highest bidders.

If all parties involved pull all that together, he will be here in 2005.

John B.

sguerra923
10-26-2004, 01:22 PM
yeah brees is a great guy and im proud of him for showing that he can play in the NFL... its going to require more money to keep him.. and other teams with flash the big bucks at him like Green bay or even Miami... so good luck to him and Rivers will be in next season...

fanfromwayback
10-29-2004, 11:36 AM
RMANCIL, AWESOME work my fellow bolt head! Very good data! Those comparisons are worthy of ESPN segment time. Keep up the good posts! I also agree with Johndbr WE SHOULD NOT frachise tag him. It will look bad "Public Relation" wise. We should make an offer or let him walk! I would like him to do well and then make an offer before free agency starts at the end of the season.

Chargeroo
10-29-2004, 12:16 PM
RMANCIL good post.
The top two QB would be less than what several teams are paying Colts,Pack Skins , Bills we on the surface are better able to fit Brees than the Pack who is rumored to be the number one team after him.
That part is true but there is also the human side of the equation - both Drew and Phillip have been starters for their entire life with the exception of their rookie season in the NFL. If you sign Drew to a new contract that pretty much guarantees that one of them will be riding the bench again next year. If one of them was in his mid thirties, that may work but since they are both young and eager to play, I just don't think you can expect to keep both of them. I think the Chargers brass new that when they decided to carry all four QB's this year. That positions them with a three team crew of QB's for next year after Drews departure.

Kwakothunder
10-29-2004, 01:06 PM
If we tag Brees at all we have to Offer him a contract equal to the Avg, Top 5 for Francise and Top 10 for Transition, QB salary and it immediatly hits our 2005 Cap number and only is relieved if he signs with another team.

I don't know if that is Base Salary, Total Compensation, Total with Signing Bonus or Cap number.
(Based on 2003 10 QB Salaries)

Transition Tag: 1 Year Contract Offer
If it is base Salary: 5.4 Mil

Base Salary with Earned Performance Bonuses(Non-Signing): 5.7 Mil
I think it is one of these 2 above.

With total Compensation with signing bounus(not likely) it jumps to 8.5 Mil.

So either way, it is very expensive to Tag Brees. The Franchise tag is even more expensive and that is not happening. The question you have to ask, would Brees just Sign the 5.4-5.7 mil 1 year offer once it hit the table?

Brees has been playing much better than I expected, but would the Boltz tag him based on the decisions that have already been made for the future? I think it is a forgone conclusion that this is the last year for Brees as a Bolt.

Thunderstruck
10-29-2004, 01:34 PM
What would happen if the Bolts signed Brees to a 2-year extension through 2007 during the bye week this year, and paid him something like a $6 million signing bonus? Wouldn't we be able to apply the first $2 million of the bonus to this year's cap, the way we would if he'd signed the deal at the beginning of the year? And what if the Bolts increased his salary for the remainder of the season this year? Couldn't we pay him the rest of what we have under the cap this year (say up to within about 500K, to leave some wiggle room) and apply that on this year's cap?

I'm not sure how it works, but it seems like if we're 6-3 at the bye, and the Chargers FO wants to get a deal done before the end of the season, that would be a good time--especially if we can apply $3-4 million of the new contract to this year's cap. It would just give us that much more wiggle-room for the next two seasons.

If we were to sign Drew to a heavily front-loaded contract this year during the season, it might hamper our ability to sign another player down the stretch, but it also might significantly reduce the cap implications over the next two years?

I'm also thinking that if they resign him during the season, he'll take a bit less than he would take if he leads the team to the playoffs...if that happens, he'll have all the bargaining chips.

OverVolt
10-31-2004, 05:34 PM
After watching Drew take his next step forward against the Traiders, this will become tough...if he keeps this high level of play up.
If he keeps this up, we will be in the playoffs.
I don't see how you let a QB like this leave, I would have to keep him.
If we can keep both Brees and Rivers then great, if not Rivers goes.(assuming Brees keeps playing like this)
I don't see how you can dump what is become one of the best QB in the league for a "maybe".
If our team had been better last year, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because all the doubters would have seen this last year.

kiwibolt
10-31-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by: KennyG
After watching Drew take his next step forward against the Traiders, this will become tough...if he keeps this high level of play up.

If he keeps this up, we will be in the playoffs.

I don't see how you let a QB like this leave, I would have to keep him.

If we can keep both Brees and Rivers then great, if not Rivers goes.(assuming Brees keeps playing like this)

I don't see how you can dump what is become one of the best QB in the league for a "maybe".

If our team had been better last year, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because all the doubters would have seen this last year.

Cap wise, we just can't dump Rivers off...it will put us back in the hole that AJ has spent the last year and a half digging us out of. I agree that Brees is a stud....and that if he plays like this, he has earned the right to be the starting QB.

How do we make it work? I dunno, I'm just glad that I'm not AJ. Sure is a great problem to have!

Jayree427
10-31-2004, 05:42 PM
I agree with u kenny. If Brees continues to play this way and possibly leads us to the playoffs there is no way we can let him go. Even though were paying rivers a lot of money we cant just give him the job. Also people shouldn't just always hate on brees every time we lose. I knew that alot of people wanted rivers to start after the broncos game. Some people should just be patient or else we are just going to run out another qb.

Also what makes this a different situation than the Kitna and Palmer one is that instead of having a 30+ old qb its a 25 year old qb. Why get rid of a qb like that in his prime that has alot of potential that hasnt been met yet. Brees is like 2 years older than Rivers.

vtchargers
10-31-2004, 06:43 PM
If Brees proves himself , the trade might be Rivers. any team in the nfl that wins, and has had as many loosing season as the chargers can afford to break up a winning combo. But it is the chargers and they only do what they feel is going to win games.

spysnipedis
10-31-2004, 07:57 PM
trading rivers = not cap friendly

Brees needs to stay on this team
.

kingporterblood
11-01-2004, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by: mgpretzel
No, we have way too much money in Philip. Phillip has more physical skilzzz and has the mental hes better. Plus Brees wouldn't resign to sit on the bench. (cleo is a good QB Him+ Rivers=2 good QB's

Lets have three good QB`s and call it a superbowl run, and if we can`t sign Brees I say pursue a hard hitting safety or an relentless pass rusher

Thunderstruck
11-01-2004, 02:14 AM
I think letting Brees go may prove to be a horrible mistake. This guy looks to me like he could be another Montana. You just gotta give him the tools to work with--but you can say the same thing about any QB.

And before you say it, yes, I know the "Montana" reference is premature. On the other hand, the game Brees played today was reminiscent of a Montana performance--suffocating and relentless efficiency.

I fear that if Brees walks, we could be letting a great one go. Remember when the Ravens replaced Trent Difler with Elvis Grbac, and people asked SHannon Sharp if he thought Grbac would be better? Sharpe said, "He can't be better. If he wins a superbowl, he'll only be as good."

Brees is playing so well, if he keeps it up he's going to put Rivers in a position where he'll have to play exceptionally well to replace Drew. And that's going to be a lot of pressure.

You never know. The Bolts are supposed to be way under the cap next offseason. If Brees keeps playing stellar football, maybe you have to trade Rivers and just take the one-year, $12 million cap hit.

bara02
11-01-2004, 02:18 AM
If this team trades rivers, it will be within the top 5 stupidest things they have ever done. Brees still has not proved he can be consistent throughout a full NFL season. And just for the fact that he is INCONSISTANT is another reason not to trade Rivers. Rivers' upside is much greater than brees, and he is not limited. For those of you who say "well he did not look limited today," well limitations show against good teams, not trash ones. We played the raiders who might be the worst team in the nfl, next to the 49ers and the bears. IF this was the Patriots we beat, then yes, then brag about him, but it was not. Brees was horrible last season, and he was also the reason we missed the playoffs in 02.

Thunderstruck
11-01-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by: bara02
If this team trades rivers, it will be within the top 5 stupidest things they have ever done. Brees still has not proved he can be consistent throughout a full NFL season. And just for the fact that he is INCONSISTANT is another reason not to trade Rivers. Rivers' upside is much greater than brees, and he is not limited. For those of you who say "well he did not look limited today," well limitations show against good teams, not trash ones. We played the raiders who might be the worst team in the nfl, next to the 49ers and the bears. IF this was the Patriots we beat, then yes, then brag about him, but it was not. Brees was horrible last season, and he was also the reason we missed the playoffs in 02.

In case you haven't been reading, almost all of this conversation is assuming Brees will show the kind of consistency to which you're referring. But if you don't think Brees is WORLD'S better than he was last year, you haven't been watching. Oh, and as to your upside comment...upside is one of the stupidest concepts on earth. No one can predict a players upside--it's all theoretical. Ryan Leaf had better upside than Peyton Manning. Remember? Just because Rivers is taller, doesn't mean he will be a better QB, and that's really the ONLY thing that Rivers has physically over Brees. River's arm isn't even that much stronger than Drew's.

psuedo
11-01-2004, 06:49 AM
couldnt agree with you more Johndbr


people on this board forget the history of losing I think seemingly starstruck by Rivers...The Ownership wont jeopardise a winner in Brees(If he remains top 5 rated etc and they win)

Trade Rivers for a freak DLineman

Jayree427
11-01-2004, 01:01 PM
I agree with you thunder. I dont see much difference between Rivers and Brees. The only thing that Rivers has over Brees is that hes taller and he has a quicker release. Brees is more athletic than Rivers. So far brees has played consistant after the broncos game. We have been playing against good teams so far except for the raiders. Just look at the stats for brees. People who dout Brees are the reason that Brees is doing so well, those peoplea re just firing him up.

overcast
11-01-2004, 02:02 PM
I've read this tread from beginning to end and it's quite hilarious. I've been watching Brees from his freshman year at Purdue and he's only gotten better. He's a smart quarterback and he's learning quickly. The problem with last year is that their offensive line couldn't protect them and the defense couldn't stop the other team from scoring. what's changed from last year our those two things.

The coaches need to watch tapes of him playing in college and let him play like he's made to play. They only recently have taken the chains off him and let him control some of the play calls and look what his can do.

I'd perfer he stayed in Chargers because he seems to have a good relationship with the rest of the team, but if you Chargers fans don't apprieciate him, he'll make another team very happy.

Give a QB what he needs and let him develope his skills. Don't be a sunshine patriot... that's what got your team in this position.

spysnipedis
11-01-2004, 04:17 PM
was brees the highest rated quarterback this sunday!?!?!

i think they need to resign brees and if Mr.Rivers is a team player resign a contract for less money(i know it won't happen). then we get can rolling.

harley
11-01-2004, 04:45 PM
LT got his dinero...franchise brees. develop PR overtime. get a free agent DE (we got the coin). we need to win quick to keep the team in SD (stadium vote), you don't get stadiums unless your winning.

derekpowell
11-01-2004, 04:50 PM
If you guys dont want Drew Brees we will have him here over in Green Bay

desertdevil
11-01-2004, 04:59 PM
I have peached for months that Brees was the scapegoat for the past two seasons, Even the announcers have be saying this. Only one young quaterback has done great startingvery ealry in his career and that was Marino. Young QB's need sometime to catch up to the speed of the game. Brees not having the best line last year didn't help his progesion either, and boston was a cancer here in AZ, that is why the Cardinals let him go with out anything in return. This is almost like the Plummer era here in AZ, the cardinals didn't feel he was the QB of the future anymore and let him go. Now that he is in Denver he has a better line, better WR's, and a better running game, he has been able to progess more into the player the Cardinals thought he would be.

Resigning Brees to an Ext. should be a must going into the latter part of this season give him 2 more years and shop Rivers or Fluite around for some people that could fill in problems areas. or sit on them
and shop for Def people next year in the FA market. But keep Brees around, I have scene the same problems with other teams that bail on a good young QB to early.

1960BoltFan
11-01-2004, 05:08 PM
Resign Brees? Heck yes!! The 49er's had a guy named Montana with a high priced backup for about 4 years named Steve Young. It worked for them. It could work for us. In any case, I would franchise tag him just so if someone offers him LT + numbers, we get two 1st round draft picks in return.. I may be wrong on how that works, but that is my understanding as of now.
In any case it is a win/ win situation. Isn't that nice for a change! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Kwakothunder
11-01-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by: 1960BoltFan
Resign Brees? Heck yes!! The 49er's had a guy named Montana with a high priced backup for about 4 years named Steve Young. It worked for them. It could work for us. In any case, I would franchise tag him just so if someone offers him LT + numbers, we get two 1st round draft picks in return.. I may be wrong on how that works, but that is my understanding as of now.

In any case it is a win/ win situation. Isn't that nice for a change!

I think that was Before there was a CAP AND the 49ers CHEATED on the CAP when it was instituted. That's how they signed Deon and were able to keep that team together to spank us in the SB. They went into CAP hell for 2-3 years and were fined by the league when they got caught.

If we Franchise Breese we must offer him a 1 year contract at the AVG salary of the TOP 5 QB salaries in the NFL. That's around a 8-10 mil cap hit for 2005. Even with the play of Brees THIS year, I don't see teams lining up to hand us 2 1st rounders. If we hand Brees a 1 year deal for 8-10 million don't you think he is going to sign it?

All this will be sorted out at the end of the season. We should just enjoy the WINNING for a change and leave all the speculation for when it will be appropriate. At seasons end.

1960BoltFan
11-01-2004, 06:53 PM
Kwakothunder,
Who knows maybe he'll get Rivers agent. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
If Brees continues to play at this amazing level of performance, then I hope he does sign it!

Kwakothunder
11-01-2004, 08:27 PM
It all depends on if the Chargers want to take the CAP hit. The could sign Brees a long term deal and dump Rivers in 3 years when the CAP hit from his contract is not as bad. It just doesn't seem plausable.

All will be answered at the end of the season. For now I am just happy about the winning and the serious arse kicking they put on the %$&@*^@ Raturds.