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View Full Version : Trade/Cut Flutie, sign Brees for 1-2 more years, to allow Rivers to develop. Lemon as 3rd string.


Carlman
10-14-2004, 03:18 AM
Brees, as much as you dont want to admit it, is finally showing us hes not a bust. Nontheless, we are only into week 6. I say we keep him, cut flutie or at least get a trade off him, sign drew ffor 2 years at the most. His experience with this young team could be the difference of FINALLY making the playoffs this year. The kid is hott right now. next years lineup: Brees, Rivers, Lemon

dgjock
10-14-2004, 09:24 AM
yes, best way, but not necessarily possible way.

cut flutie is a must or let him retire, just to give him a sweet note at the end of his career and then make him a coaching staff.

Lemon will be a good backup, while Brees will walk away after this season, unless we break the bank to resign him. This is not possible, since we already broke the bank when we signed Rivers and LT. Just ride Brees this season and see where he can take us. If he can take us to the playoff or winning record, he will always be remembered the one who did that, but nothing more.

yodafro
10-14-2004, 10:52 AM
It always takes a few years

WHITELIGHTNING
10-14-2004, 12:38 PM
Two wins does not prove that brees has done anything to be called a consistant winner, check back in week 14 and we'll look at it then.

dawlita
10-14-2004, 01:18 PM
your right on the money--thats exactly what should be done.

Thunderstruck
10-14-2004, 02:19 PM
Only problems is: How much money will we have to pay Brees for him to stay? If you have to pay him 4+ million per year, then he becomes salary-cap prohibitive because you've already got a QB eating up 7 million per year (PR.)

And if Brees leads the Bolts to some success this year, he will probably command more in the neighborhood of $5+ million per year.

Funny situation. Bolts might have jumped the gun a bit getting Rivers. The Bengals were in a similar situation, and I still wonder if they'd be doing better right now with Kitna as the starter.

We'll have to wait and see.

OldManCharger
10-14-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by: Thunderstruck
Only problems is: How much money will we have to pay Brees for him to stay? If you have to pay him 4+ million per year, then he becomes salary-cap prohibitive because you've already got a QB eating up 7 million per year (PR.)



And if Brees leads the Bolts to some success this year, he will probably command more in the neighborhood of $5+ million per year.



Funny situation. Bolts might have jumped the gun a bit getting Rivers. The Bengals were in a similar situation, and I still wonder if they'd be doing better right now with Kitna as the starter.



We'll have to wait and see.

My sentiments exactly, I have been hammering this point too, its about the money, Brees cannot stay because we cannot have two BQs earning in excess of 12 Million dollars a year, its simply fiscally irresponsible.

The proverbial "gun" might have been jumped, true. But I think in the LONG RUN, man I hate saying that as a Charger fan......we will be better off with Rivers. But for the moment the Chargers need to make a decision, difficult but necessary. Guys this is not John Madden Football, this is reality....money talk very loudly.

Besides, Brees is an "OK" QB....but he will not lead this team (ever) to a Championship. I would love to eat crow on that though.....prove me wrong Brees....and I promise to be a fan for life if he takes us to the Super Bowl this year. This is his year to prove something, I hope they do not trade him and find out.


OMC

Johndbr
10-14-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by: Carlman
Brees, as much as you don't want to admit it, is finally showing us hes not a bust. Nonetheless, we are only into week 6. I say we keep him, cut flutie or at least get a trade off him, sign drew for 2 years at the most. His experience with this young team could be the difference of FINALLY making the playoffs this year. The kid is hot right now. next years lineup: Brees, Rivers, Lemon

Unfortunately that will not happen. Now the trade, cut or make Flutie a QB coach just might and should happen, but Brees will not sign that sort of deal, especially if we make the play offs. If we make the play offs or if Brees just plays as good as he has been for the rest of they year, his next contract will be his best and maybe only chance to get a killer contract. He might get more if he stays healthy, but you can't count on that in this league. At the end of this season Brees will be looking for a 6 year deal with one hell of a signing bonus and if he leads this team to the play offs, I will bet you he will get it. Everything is on the condition that Brees plays well for the rest of the year of course.

The only way we can keep Brees at the end of the season will be to out bid all other teams.

John B.

OldManCharger
10-14-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Originally posted by: Carlman

Brees, as much as you don't want to admit it, is finally showing us hes not a bust. Nonetheless, we are only into week 6. I say we keep him, cut flutie or at least get a trade off him, sign drew for 2 years at the most. His experience with this young team could be the difference of FINALLY making the playoffs this year. The kid is hot right now. next years lineup: Brees, Rivers, Lemon



Unfortunately that will not happen. Now the trade, cut or make Flutie a QB coach just might and should happen, but Brees will not sign that sort of deal, especially if we make the play offs. If we make the play offs or if Brees just plays as good as he has been for the rest of they year, his next contract will be his best and maybe only chance to get a killer contract. He might get more if he stays healthy, but you can't count on that in this league. At the end of this season Brees will be looking for a 6 year deal with one hell of a signing bonus and if he leads this team to the play offs, I will bet you he will get it. Everything is on the condition that Brees plays well for the rest of the year of course.



The only way we can keep Brees at the end of the season will be to out bid all other teams.



John B.

John do you want to keep Brees? Do you think if we make the playoffs he is worth keeping long term....I am not sure that he is a long term investment, besides we are screwed finacially if we keep both Brees and Rivers......what do we do assuming Brees becomes the "deliverer" and we make the playoffs of better. Just curious.

OMC

SDRaiderH8er
10-14-2004, 04:23 PM
This Is Brees last Year as a Charger.Rivers is making how much, LT is making How much, now you want to pay Brees Starter Money also, how do we plan on making all this work and remain under the Cap, we have 2 #1's we have to deal with next Year.

mcc2mobile
10-14-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by: SDRaiderH8er
This Is Brees last Year as a Charger.Rivers is making how much, LT is making How much, now you want to pay Brees Starter Money also, how do we plan on making all this work and remain under the Cap, we have 2 #1's we have to deal with next Year.

Yes high number 10 and hopefully slot number #32

Johndbr
10-14-2004, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by: OldManCharger
John do you want to keep Brees? Do you think if we make the playoffs he is worth keeping long term....I am not sure that he is a long term investment, besides we are screwed financially if we keep both Brees and Rivers......what do we do assuming Brees becomes the "deliverer" and we make the playoffs of better. Just curious.
OMC

Interesting question, what do I want? I do believe we can take the financial hit you are referring to. The Chargers made so many blunders in the recent past they are going to get a wind fall of cap space next year. Probably more than enough to take the hit and handle the needs for 2005. You could practically hire a entire team with the 30 to 40 mil of cap space we will be getting next year, but that does not answer the question does it.

I seriously hate to say this, but I do not know what I want yet. I will say I want Brees to have a honest shot at proving himself this year, but I have to see what he does with that opportunity the entire year long to make the choice you are referring too. I really believe we have the receivers we need, but there is still the draw back of the O-Line. They have gone through one hell of a improvement over last year, but they are still not doing what I expect to give a QB a real shot. The key factor here is they are not getting the jump on the defense that they need to. Watch how they line up, they give the defense a good yard of space, I assume that is to compensate for the half a step they are behind most defenses. Brees rarely takes a 3 step drop, usually it is 5 steps or the shot gun, once again to give him and the line the time they need. I am not complaining, I love to see progress and tactics aimed at overcoming weakness and what they are doing is working brilliantly so far, but to really bring this together they need to beat their opponents off the line and get that first jump. When they can do that, you will really see the running game come together, which will improve our passing game tremendously.

Ask me that in the last quarter of the season when all the components of the team will be as far a long as they can get for the team and we can really evaluate what they can and can not do. If we do keep Brees, odds are we will have to deal Rivers. You are talking losing all the money invested in him this year {not that it really matters, it was gone when he reported to camp so late anyway} and taking the cap hit next year. Now we are talking what I would like here, not what I think will happen, but if I was in charge, it would all be based on not only what Brees does this year, but what I could get for Rivers. Considering we will have developed him as a player for a year by then and the hits I would be taking, I would want a player who would could immediately contribute and at least their 2006 & 2007 number one picks.

But that is what I would be looking for based on what I think would be best for the team, not what I think will happen considering the over all dynamics of the Chargers situation. Do not forget, those are two different things.

John B.

Rewound
10-14-2004, 09:19 PM
Honestly I don't know what's going to happen in the Brees, Rivers, Flutie, Lemon saga.

It's hard to let good players go.

But I'm sure AJ has something up his sleeve and I suspect we're the ones making it more of a saga than it really is.


Wes Welker was cut and everyone knew he'd be on the roster at another team. Indeed that happened and he's doing well.

Boston left Dodge and others have stepped up in his place.

Hardball with Ball turned out well and he appears to be back with the team.

Ricochet is deflecting his past critcism and is starting to shine.

Overall the charger trend is looking good.


So I say, whatever happens it will be for the good of the Chargers and it will be a stronger team no matter what happens.

guimcharger
10-14-2004, 09:56 PM
I don't think Brees would resign with us even if we gave him the opportunity. It doesn't matter I bet next year the QB contraversy will be between Rivers and Lemon.

Johndbr
10-15-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by: guimcharger
I don't think Brees would resign with us even if we gave him the opportunity. It doesn't matter I bet next year the QB controversy will be between Rivers and Lemon.

Now there I strongly disagree. I really think Brees is being driven to prove his attackers not only wrong, but that he is to valuable to let go. If Brees is offered a honest 6 year deal at the end of this year, I think he will sign it, I think in his mind it will be vindication.

However, lets say Brees does go else where, there will be no QB controversy between Rivers and Lemons. Rivers makes millions, Lemons makes a few hundred thousand, no question asked, Rivers is the starter under those circumstance. The only way Lemons will get a chance to start next year is if
Rivers gets hurt and I hope, we all are praying that does not happen.

John B.

HUGH1980
10-15-2004, 08:11 AM
I DONT THINK MONEY MAKE A PLAYER. IF ANYTHING IT MAKE MOST OF THEM A LITTLE SOFTER. THEY DONT SEEM LIKE THEY WANT TO PLAY AS HARD, RISK AN INJURY AND LOSE MILLIONS. WITH L.T. AS AN EXCEPTION OF CORSE.

Please do not type in all caps.

Chargeroo
10-15-2004, 10:44 AM
I read all the "we" stuff he says and I think he does want to play for the Chargers. I still doubt that will happen but it can't be completely ruled out. After that Denver game, I felt certain he was as good as gone but look what he's done since then. I'm not ruyling anything out regarding Drew Brees. I'll just waut and see.
The article in todays paper - had this from him - ""We're not satisfied by any means," Brees said. "It was great it's good to win those games when we really needed to win games and when we really needed to play well as an offense and start fast and all the things we talked about during the week leading up to that (last) game. . . .

"But we've got a tough test on the road this week. If we want to go where we think we can go, we need to be able to win in environments like this. When we've come off two positive weeks we need to be able to put a third one together."

Here's alink in case you missed the article -
http://www.signonsandiego.com/...9999-1s15chargers.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20041015-9999-1s15chargers.html)

WHITELIGHTNING
10-15-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I read all the "we" stuff he says and I think he does want to play for the Chargers. I still doubt that will happen but it can't be completely ruled out. After that Denver game, I felt certain he was as good as gone but look what he's done since then. I'm not ruyling anything out regarding Drew Brees. I'll just waut and see.
the article in todays paper - had this from him - ""We're not satisfied by any means," Brees said. "It was great it's good to win those games when we really needed to win games and when we really needed to play well as an offense and start fast and all the things we talked about during the week leading up to that (last) game. . . .
"But we've got a tough test on the road this week. If we want to go where we think we can go, we need to be able to win in environments like this. When we've come off two positive weeks we need to be able to put a third one together."
Here's alink in case you missed the article -
http://www.signonsandiego.com/...9999-1s15chargers.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20041015-9999-1s15chargers.html)

I also didn't get the feeling that AJ is completely sold on Brees from this same article.

Johndbr
10-15-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by: WHITELIGHTNING
I also didn't get the feeling that AJ is completely sold on Brees from this same article.

Well I did not see any input from AJ in that article, but I bet you are right. AJ has to be looking for reasons to dislike Brees and hoping Brees implodes soon. No matter how you look at it, if Brees finishes the season doing as good as he is doing now, AJ is going to be in one hell of a sticky wicket. AJ obviously picked up Rivers under the belief that Brees was as bad as the press and the anti-Breezers where claiming and figured Brees would be the water boy by now and Brees proving them all wrong is not making his year if you know what I mean.

I have no real sympathy for him or Marty on that one, turning their backs on Brees like that when they did was just wrong. I do not care who you put in Brees's place, they would have failed too. Take your pick Fouts, Vick, McNabb, Montana, Elway, Marino or anyone else you can think of for that matter, no QB was going to keep this team alive with the lack of talent they had trying to help him and that is not even touching the locker room conflict that were dragging the team down too. It simply was not going to happen. You would figure that considering how long those two have been in the league, they would have saw that and would have taken corrective action, not just try to make him the next whipping boy and go out and get another latest and greatest. On top of that, we had much greater needs that the pick could have been used on too.

Getting Rivers is going to go down in Chargers history as blunder, may be the worst one ever depending on how the season ends. Best case scenario for AJ on this is Brees implodes and Rivers is there to step in and is able to use the rest of this season as OJT. We still had other positions that needed attention more than the QB slot. There will always be the latest and greatest QB to pick out of the draft, but to get one before you build the O-Line is just throwing the pick away if you ask me. Worst case for him here is Brees takes us to the Super Bowl {not saying it will happen, yet!! just saying it would be the worst case for him}, then he definitely could have used the pick better and he will have to deal with the fall out, no matter who walks or gets traded. It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out, no matter what happens.

John B.

Absolute
10-15-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Originally posted by: guimcharger

I don't think Brees would resign with us even if we gave him the opportunity. It doesn't matter I bet next year the QB controversy will be between Rivers and Lemon.



Now there I strongly disagree. I really think Brees is being driven to prove his attackers not only wrong, but that he is to valuable to let go. If Brees is offered a honest 6 year deal at the end of this year, I think he will sign it, I think in his mind it will be vindication.

If I were him, I would want to prove my doubters wrong and then laugh as I walk away and head to another team while their rookie QB struggles(assuming Rivers will struggle). He was slapped in the face by this organization. I highly doubt he will be a Charger next year, unless he plays horribly for the rest of the season and has no other choice.