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Chargeroo
12-31-2004, 11:31 AM
If they put the franchise tag on Drew, will someone else make him an offer and give up two first rounders? I think it's entirely possible. By the way, the two first wouldn't have to be for thsi year, one from this year and another in 2006 would fill the bill.

raiderhater1
12-31-2004, 11:41 AM
roo i have to disagree with you i dont feel that letting drew go for that is good maybe rivers but not brees >drew is starting to come around and i think letting him go will be a great escape from our team these guys glue with drew and that comrodery is so great for him he is a great leader to this team now.....he just need some people put around him now he has some he will flourish

SDynasty
12-31-2004, 11:52 AM
if we win the superbowl i could see the team moving Brees. We did it now on to the futre could be their thinking.

If we could get first round types I would sign and trade #9 cause AJ said PR will not be traded, so you may as well get as much for drew as you can....its inevitable. gonna miss #9 he is a class act.

Chargeroo
12-31-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by: raiderhater1
roo i have to disagree with you i dont feel that letting drew go for that is good maybe rivers but not brees >drew is starting to come around and i think letting him go will be a great escape from our team these guys glue with drew and that comrodery is so great for him he is a great leader to this team now.....he just need some people put around him now he has some he will flourishI see your point and I don't disagree with it. However, think of the flip side of it - If he's traded for the two firsts you could could get two good players, perhaps long time starters. Also, you'd have that 9 million dollars or so to spend for other players as needed. Maybe you could sign a great Safety or a great pass rusher from the Free Agent period?

raiderhater1
12-31-2004, 12:09 PM
Roo, long time starters >>>>> then we are in the same boat we have been in look at flutie >>> the qb span in the nfl is not that long and when ya have somebody to lead ya ya just cant get rid of them these days this is a one season franchise nfl and brees to me has the leadership to bring that to SD ...as far as saftey i said in the other post i wouldnt hesitate to put jammer back at saftey ......we have good corners just young they will come around dflo and davis at the corners jammer at the saftey like i said youngens and with time they will come around and they will be a sec... to be rekon with in the next year or 2 but on the other hand if we coulkd get a phjyiscal saftey in the late 3 or 4th round a diamond in the ruff i would hesitate to look at that option as well>

RMANCIL
12-31-2004, 12:26 PM
What is the point of making a trade to improve your club???

If you improve your club that means you will = make the playoffs??

It seems to me that this team is already a playoff team so at best we could be one again with a trade or perhaps they fail to make the playoffs. Most rookie QB or first year starter don't lead their teams to the playoffs.

If we keep the playoff team intact I think their chances to repeat their play is strong most of the core group are young and I would expect them to in fact to improve. I also think that Brees back up Rivers will be another year older and better as well. The fact that the team should add two or three good players from the draft reinforces this belief.

Now if Brees repeats his play next year Smith may offer him a long term contract and if Rivers wants out and at this point he has not made any such statement then perhaps you trade him or if Brees loses his job to Rivers then you trade Brees if he wants out.

At this time both QB seem to be happy and the club is winning and as a result the fans at least most of them are also happy.

Finding a winning receipt is a hard thing to do. The Bolts have been in the kitchen nine years before getting a wining recipe, I vote to stick with it and add just a few ingredients like a couple of first rounder's and perhaps the team keeps winning . The games sell out, the stadium is built and Pro football stays in S.D.

Just a thought.

raiderhater1
12-31-2004, 12:31 PM
PERFECTLY SAID couldnt agree more with >>>>> Kitchen is smelling good right now...thats for sure loli/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

2ANGELES7
12-31-2004, 12:55 PM
I think we should keep D.Brees he has shown us in this season that we knows what hes doing.. I don't know about other people but I'm tired of waiting for QBs to develop. D.Brees has developed into a good QB. We should keep him and keep the people on this years team.. seems like there is a lot of trust on the team and the players are getting a long with each other.. We have to keep something special, and this years team is special. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

guimcharger
12-31-2004, 01:02 PM
You don't trade away a known for the unknown. Especially if the known is a Pro Bowl QB.

tarballed
12-31-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by: 214SD6
if we win the superbowl i could see the team moving Brees. We did it now on to the futre could be their thinking.

If we could get first round types I would sign and trade #9 cause AJ said PR will not be traded, so you may as well get as much for drew as you can....its inevitable. gonna miss #9 he is a class act.

If someone offers two #1 draft picks for Brees this offseason, you can bet AJ will take it. Most will miss Brees when he is traded, but the fact is, when the Botls FO drafted Rivers in April, they made their decision right then and there. That pretty much sealed Brees's fate in San Diego.



Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I see your point and I don't disagree with it. However, think of the flip side of it - If he's traded for the two firsts you could could get two good players, perhaps long time starters. Also, you'd have that 9 million dollars or so to spend for other players as needed. Maybe you could sign a great Safety or a great pass rusher from the Free Agent period?

This is something I think people overlook. I agree with you Chargeroo though. The $9million used for Brees could easily be used on a number of players via FA. A few that come to mind: Dwight Smith, John Abraham, also, we could use the money to sign our current players to long term deals as well. The $9 million dollars is very important and should not be taken likely.

What I find amusing on this board is how quickly people forget how BAD Brees played last year. And I do man bad. Now that we are winning, a lot of people here are ready to give him the keys to the city. He has only performed on year. He has played better I agree. BUT, a lot of his improvment is because of the following:

-pro-bowl Running Back
-emergence of Gates (Pro-bowler now)
-very solid offensive line
-Nice set of WR corps
-better defense that does not force our offense to come from behind

All of those contribute to Brees improvement.

Our offense is not that complicated. It is pretty vanilla. I read an article awhile ago where people agreed that you could put a wide variety of QB's in our offense, with our personal, and they would have success. So why can't Rivers have success in this offense?

People say Rivers doesn't have experience. He is raw. Well of course he is. He is a rookie. He will get his playing time soon enough.

Also, here are a few more things.

1.) We don't know what we have in Rivers. We could have a superstar or a bust. we don't know. We will just have to wait and see.

2.) Brees is having a good year. BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE HE WILL DO IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR. For all we know, he is having a "career year." For all we know, he could flop again next year and revert to the 2003 season, but nobody knows.

For all the people who say "Brees has arrived." YOu know what, when he does it consistently over a number of years, then I will agree with that statement. One year alone does not make him a superstar. He could end up being a one year wonder.

I think the Chargers should take advantage of Brees and his success right now and franchise him and trade him. If a very lucrative deal comes around for him, i don't see why we wouldn't jump on it.

If we can make this team better in certain areas, then we are seriously a force to be reckon with.

-get a real pass rush to consistently put pressure on the QB
-fix the secondary that is so pourus (Sign Dwight Smith, ot whatever)
-sign/draft a true #1 WR - Edwards/Williams
-build depth at the DL and OL position

You fix what needs to be fixed and build on areas for depth and this team will be a dynasty for a long long time. The casualty for this will be Brees.

Flame my post. Hate my post. whatever. But the fact of the matter is, this team is a good team but we can be even better. Brees can only take this team so far (as can Rivers).

Bu

raiderhater1
12-31-2004, 01:26 PM
VERY TRUE THIS DOSENT MEAN HE'LL PLAY GOOD NEXT YEAR THERE IS NO GAR.N.TEE. IN FOOTBALL BUT WHY TRADE SOMETHING THAT ISNT BROKE RIGHT NOW yes all the things you said is true all these make brees better but this something he hasnt had before he did not have all this talent last year he had some of it and now its starting to develop rivers true is surrounded by talent but himself is unproven this year and very well be a bust......not saying he will be but could then we are in the same spot as the last ten years again...drew we know with this talents has proved he can win and do it underpressure and with the leadership that this teamss needs i understand siging people is impoortant but the qb postion is the glue of the team......

tarballed
12-31-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by: raiderhater1
VERY TRUE THIS DOSENT MEAN HE'LL PLAY GOOD NEXT YEAR THERE IS NO GAR.N.TEE. IN FOOTBALL BUT WHY TRADE SOMETHING THAT ISNT BROKE RIGHT NOW yes all the things you said is true all these make brees better but this something he hasnt had before he did not have all this talent last year he had some of it and now its starting to develop rivers true is surrounded by talent but himself is unproven this year and very well be a bust......not saying he will be but could then we are in the same spot as the last ten years again...drew we know with this talents has proved he can win and do it underpressure and with the leadership that this teamss needs i understand siging people is impoortant but the qb postion is the glue of the team......

If you can make this team better by trading Brees, why not then? We do need to get better, that much is obvious. If you can make the rest of the team better (a la a suffocating defence) and a strong offense, we will be strong for long time.

I am expecting Rivers to take his lumps as he learns, but I think he will develop a lot faster than most expect.

As I said before, there are no guarantees. Brees could easily flop back to 2003 and Rivers could bust completely (but we have Lemon!!)

All im saying is if you have an opportunity to trade Brees and make this team better and stronger for a long long time (through young, talented players) I think it would be very hard to turndown. I think AJ and company like what they have in Rivers and know what they have in Rivers. if something comes up where they can trade Brees for a couple picks, i see AJ pulling the trigger.

Also, has anyone even considered that Rivers could run our offense even better than Brees and even perform better than Brees? Or is it sacreligous to say that kind of stuff about Brees?

raiderhater1
12-31-2004, 01:42 PM
i understand but you can still make the team better even not trading brees ....rivers very well could lead the team im not at all saying he couldnt but we dont know due to he is unproven and why not keep what ya got at the qb spot { sounds like a rappen }lol when your on top dosent have to be prolific names in the draft to be great look at some that are in the leauge now that are just mind blowing and great picks in the draft and some that are evn walk on for that aspect of things .... not a rivers hater just want us to stay on top with the leadership we got and right now our boys respone well to brees >>>>

Johndbr
12-31-2004, 01:44 PM
Tarballed you make the case of why we need to keep Brees, except you left out one important fact about Brees, this is not a one year wonder. Two years ago Brees led this team to a 6-0 start. The team over came one obstacle after another until one of the injuries to the O-Line broke the camels back. You combine that with the fact that no QB who is or has played the game could of made it work last year and you have a solid case for keeping Brees. No QB can do it alone, of course he is having a career year when the rest of the team stepped up to they plate too, show me one QB who has had a career year on a team like we had last year, it just does not happen.

This is the first time in a long time that I would not like to be the guy saying who stays and who goes. Everywhere you look there is a check and balance to the equation, there is no clear cut bad guy out there who needs to go back to driving a truck. We need help in the secondary, right? or is the issue a combination of the new rule and needing help on the pass rush? and do not forget no matter what you change, you can not compromise the run stopping game we have. I doubt that even the coaches can tell you which way to go. Do we truly need a new receiver with great speed? or do we need to improve the pass protection for Brees to get him a extra few second while the plays develop? and to complicate everything you have rookies everywhere who are improving every game. Just look at Igor now and compare his play to beginning of the year, he has improved a ton and he just keeps getting better.

There is no easy answer this year. I think we truly need some help on special teams, but that is about it. I am a firm believer in if it ain't broke; don't fix it, but what is and is not broke? There is one thing for sure though, the QB position is not broke and we do not need to fix it. Brees, LT and Gates are working perfect together and we need to keep it that way.

John B.

tarballed
12-31-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr
Tarballed you make the case of why we need to keep Brees, except you left out one important fact about Brees, this is not a one year wonder. Two years ago Brees led this team to a 6-0 start. The team over came one obstacle after another until one of the injuries to the O-Line broke the camels back. You combine that with the fact that no QB who is or has played the game could of made it work last year and you have a solid case for keeping Brees. No QB can do it alone, of course he is having a career year when the rest of the team stepped up to they plate too, show me one QB who has had a career year on a team like we had last year, it just does not happen.

Two years ago, we fell flat on our butts, Brees included. He still needs to prove he can perform like this year after year.



This is the first time in a long time that I would not like to be the guy saying who stays and who goes. Everywhere you look there is a check and balance to the equation, there is no clear cut bad guy out there who needs to go back to driving a truck. We need help in the secondary, right? or is the issue a combination of the new rule and needing help on the pass rush? and do not forget no matter what you change, you can not compromise the run stopping game we have. I doubt that even the coaches can tell you which way to go. Do we truly need a new receiver with great speed? or do we need to improve the pass protection for Brees to get him a extra few second while the plays develop? and to complicate everything you have rookies everywhere who are improving every game. Just look at Igor now and compare his play to beginning of the year, he has improved a ton and he just keeps getting better.

I don't want to be AJ either, but in AJ I trust. We do need to improve in some areas. Pass rush, secondary WR and special teams as well. Add more depth to OL and DL as well.



There is no easy answer this year. I think we truly need some help on special teams, but that is about it. I am a firm believer in if it ain't broke; don't fix it, but what is and is not broke? There is one thing for sure though, the QB position is not broke and we do not need to fix it. Brees, LT and Gates are working perfect together and we need to keep it that way.

John B.

True. But I am going to guess if Brees is not traded in the offseason, he and Rivers will have to battle it out in training camp to win the starting job. i don't see the chargers just handing him the starting job. I think that is a far assesment.

Your right, Brees, LT and Gates are performing well. But what happens when teams stop them? Teams are starting to figure out Gates. If you take out Gates and LT, you need good WR's to make up for that. I am a firm believer that the more weapons you have, the better you are. Thus the need for a #1 WR.

I know there a lot of biased opinions on the board, which is normal. I am not anti-brees. I was really pulling for him the first couple of years. when the chargers drafted Rivers in April, I figured well, Brees is done, time to move on. I am very glad Brees is doing well. great for the team, great for the city. I just believe that if you can build a "dynasty" here on both sides of the ball, winning will be an epidemic here for a long time.

For the record, I do think Rivers will be a good QB. People mention the Ryan Leaf fiasco and I shake my head in wonder. The two are as different as night and day. I think that is another problem with our fans. they are so scarred by the Leaf fiasco they are scared it will happen again. There are no guarantees in football ever, and in life for that matter.

The only thing that is guaranteed every day is that the sun will set and the sun will rise...

Johndbr
12-31-2004, 02:50 PM
Two years ago, we fell flat on our butts, Brees included. He still needs to prove he can perform like this year after year.

And exactly who do you think would not have fallen on their butt's under the same circumstances that Brees was under 2 years ago? {since you seem to want to blame the QB for everything} Fouts, Montana or Marino maybe? I do not think so. You are trying to treat a symptom, not the cause and as long as we keep doing that we will go right back to last place. You stated why we are doing so much better in your post, the O-Line has improved dramatically and so has the receiving core. Those were the causes of last years implosion that technically started the year before. Now that we have actually fixed the cause, you want to lose one of the key eliminates for the turn around? that just does not make since. Ya the O-Line and Receiving core has dramatically improved, but it is Brees's understanding of the play book and the players around him that is making it work; if it is not broke, do not fix it. We never needed a new QB, what we needed was a O-Line and Receivers. That fixed the problem, lets not mess it up now.

John B.

tarballed
12-31-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by: Johndbr

Two years ago, we fell flat on our butts, Brees included. He still needs to prove he can perform like this year after year.

And exactly who do you think would not have fallen on their butt's under the same circumstances that Brees was under 2 years ago? {since you seem to want to blame the QB for everything} Fouts, Montana or Marino maybe? I do not think so. You are trying to treat a symptom, not the cause and as long as we keep doing that we will go right back to last place. You stated why we are doing so much better in your post, the O-Line has improved dramatically and so has the receiving core. Those were the causes of last years implosion that technically started the year before. Now that we have actually fixed the cause, you want to lose one of the key eliminates for the turn around? that just does not make since. Ya the O-Line and Receiving core has dramatically improved, but it is Brees's understanding of the play book and the players around him that is making it work; if it is not broke, do not fix it. We never needed a new QB, what we needed was a O-Line and Receivers. That fixed the problem, lets not mess it up now.

John B.

Where did I blame Brees? I don't recall that I did. I just said we fell on our butts, Brees included. I dont see anything in that sentence that had me blaming Brees specifically.

your right, we didn't need to draft a QB. but guess what, they did. Can't change that now.
I did say that our OL and WR corps have gotten better. But we can be even better. What's wrong with saying that? Oben is getting old as is Mccardell. i don't seem them panning out long term here. There are two key positions that we need to address. That is all im saying. This team has gotten better and we need to keep making it better.

All I said was that "IF" we traded Brees here is what we could do. Could it bolster the team? Absolutely. Is it a good idea? Sure, why not. IS it going to happen. Who knows. You can not deny that if we traded Brees, with what we get in return, it could make our team even better.

At the same time, we could say, if we traded Brees, it could set us back. But you know what, who knows.

Hell, for all we know, we could sign Brees to a long term deal and trade Rivers. Rivers could turn out to be the next Super star of the league and Brees could completely bust. But who knows.

What im saying is that if there is an opportunity to trade Brees to pick up picks or players to further enhance this team, make it better than this year, it should be very much considered. Sometimes, you need to take chances and go with things.

It's not for you or any of us in this forum to decide. That goes to AJ and I will support whatever he decides.

Why is it so bad to contemplate the idea of trading Brees on this forum?

drangus
12-31-2004, 04:54 PM
I know AJ is going to do the right thing--I could care less who he keeps as long as it is in the best interest of the franchise for the long run--we can send rivers back to the draft so why get in cap hell when this team has already shown it is resilient--if they get a good offer for drew TRADE HIM!! otherwise he stays for one more year and we get nothing--next years cap will most likely not allow us to franchise again so why take that chance?

csfoster
12-31-2004, 05:09 PM
The Chargers focus in 2005 and 2006 will be on getting a new stadium approved. The minimum requirement for accomplishing this is putting a winning team on the field. Having a team in the play-offs in 2005 and 2006 would almost make certain that a new stadium would be approved.

Thus, the Chargers can not take any risk at all of having a losing season next year or the following one. Trading Brees based on the assumption that an untested and inexperienced Rivers will lead the team back to the play-offs or at the very least a winning season, is not an assumption the Chargers will be willing to make.

Paying Bress $9.0 million and/or extending his contract to lead the team during these critical years is a small and rather insignificant investment compared to the $500+ million that goes with getting a new stadium appoved and built.

Then again, if it is the Chargers plan to not make every effort to get a new stadium built so that they can vacate San Diego, trading Brees after the Chargers first winning season and play-off appearance in 10 years is the best strategy.

broncossuck7
12-31-2004, 05:20 PM
is it possible to trade rivers for a 1st rounder?

Shamrock
12-31-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
.....

That's my thoughts...tarballed

Great post. My thoughts on the matter pretty much mirror your well stated arguements.

If this comes down to purely a football decision, then the question is:

Can Rivers play at or near the level of Brees next season?

If Marty and AJ believe the answer is yes, then Brees is gone.

We can only speculate on that answer, as practices are closed, and Rivers hasn't seen enough pro action for anyone to postulate on his future development.

I'm fully in the "trade Brees" camp.

drangus
12-31-2004, 07:12 PM
with the killer schedule san diego has for next year I would not be surprised if whomever is the QB here struggles next year--yeah that includes drew--keep in mind that DREW WILL NEVER SIGN A LONG TERM DEAL IN SAN DIEGO unless his agent is completely incompetent he won't hesitate to play for the franchise tag however 10 million a season--do you honestly believe he belongs with the top five QBs in the league for talent let alone salary?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! take a look at his numbers against defenses that are rated in the top half in the league--don't forget that our schedule this year turned out to be pretty easy look at the people that drew lit up this year they were all very bad defensively!!!!!!!!!

tarballed
12-31-2004, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: tarballed
.....

That's my thoughts...tarballed

Great post. My thoughts on the matter pretty much mirror your well stated arguements.

If this comes down to purely a football decision, then the question is:

Can Rivers play at or near the level of Brees next season?

If Marty and AJ believe the answer is yes, then Brees is gone.

We can only speculate on that answer, as practices are closed, and Rivers hasn't seen enough pro action for anyone to postulate on his future development.

I'm fully in the "trade Brees" camp.

Thanks Shamrock. I appreciate it. It is nice to know some others are thinking along the same lines as I am. I honestly believe there could be a great opportunity here to cash in with Brees and really land some more draft picks and sign some quality Free agents.

I do appreciate it.

Tarballed

Shamrock
12-31-2004, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
I honestly believe there could be a great opportunity here to cash in with Brees and really land some more draft picks and sign some quality Free agents.
AJ can set up the franchise to be a top tier team for a long time if they use the cap wisely, and get good compensation for Brees.

I'm not "QB Centric." I firmly believe that a QB's production is directly related to the talent around him. I do think that Brees improved his play, but the fact that all the players around him (and the defense) have improved is just as much related to the elevation in perceived quarterbacking play.

Rivers will have a learning curve. But, with more money available to spend on players other than the QB, and extra compensation for trading Brees, SD can acquire more talent to an already improving squad. The Chargers can "protect" Rivers in the manner that Pittsburgh is protecting Big Ben. Surround him with a good OL, good WR's, a great running game, and a shut down defense.

This year is great, and we still have a shot to win the big prize, but the future is damn promising if the Chargers utilize all their assets wisely.

tarballed
01-01-2005, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: tarballed
I honestly believe there could be a great opportunity here to cash in with Brees and really land some more draft picks and sign some quality Free agents.
AJ can set up the franchise to be a top tier team for a long time if they use the cap wisely, and get good compensation for Brees.

I'm not "QB Centric." I firmly believe that a QB's production is directly related to the talent around him. I do think that Brees improved his play, but the fact that all the players around him (and the defense) have improved is just as much related to the elevation in perceived quarterbacking play.

Rivers will have a learning curve. But, with more money available to spend on players other than the QB, and extra compensation for trading Brees, SD can acquire more talent to an already improving squad. The Chargers can "protect" Rivers in the manner that Pittsburgh is protecting Big Ben. Surround him with a good OL, good WR's, a great running game, and a shut down defense.

This year is great, and we still have a shot to win the big prize, but the future is damn promising if the Chargers utilize all their assets wisely.

See, that is my exact thinking as well. It's pretty cut and dry in my opinion. As I have said before, we are a good team. But we can become a great team and be a top tier team for a long time by continuing to build this team on both sides of the ball. Surround Rivers with talent and build a suffocating defense and this team will be good for a long time.

Chargeroo
01-01-2005, 11:05 AM
I think that same way - strike while the iron is hot. It appears that the QB's available through the draft this time will be pretty limited because the two top rated QB's are both talking like they'll play another year in college. That only enhances Drews value. Keep Drew another year and you still have the same problem ie. what should we do with the QB situation. You may also have some split among the players regarding which QB they prefer. Next years draft may include as many as three more QB's that are worthy of a first round pick. I like Drew and I'm extremely happy to see how he's progressed this year but this may be a case of a guy that's worth more to the team in trade than he's worth to keep because they have a QB on the bench that appears to have a lot of talent. I certainly hope that those that say the decision will be based off the stadium issue are wrong. This decision should be strictly a football decision, is Rivers ready and how much can we get for Brees - those should be the only considerations.

tarballed
01-01-2005, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I think that same way - strike while the iron is hot. It appears that the QB's available through the draft this time will be pretty limited because the two top rated QB's are both talking like they'll play another year in college. That only enhances Drews value. Keep Drew another year and you still have the same problem ie. what should we do with the QB situation. You may also have some split among the players regarding which QB they prefer. Next years draft may include as many as three more QB's that are worthy of a first round pick. I like Drew and I'm extremely happy to see how he's progressed this year but this may be a case of a guy that's worth more to the team in trade than he's worth to keep because they have a QB on the bench that appears to have a lot of talent. I certainly hope that those that say the decision will be based off the stadium issue are wrong. This decision should be strictly a football decision, is Rivers ready and how much can we get for Brees - those should be the only considerations.


That is something I forgot to mention. If both Leinhart and Rodgers stay in school (and it looks as if they may) the QB's coming out in April is nothing to be excited about. Thus, teams will be more willing to pay for Brees should we shop him. Brees having a very good year and making the pro-bowl will make his value go up. Factor in this years QB class coming out (lack of that is) as well as a number of teams who need a QB and we are really sitting pretty to grab some very good picks and players if we trade Brees. Here are some teams that may be interested in Brees:

-Bears
-Dolphins
-Cowboys
-Redskins (yep, i heard they are)
-Cleveland
-Oakland
-Green Bay ( Favre is probably retiring after this season)
-Arizona
-San Francisco

Few of those teams are in dire need of a QB.

I honestly think that AJ is going to get an very good offer from one of the teams above and end up trading Brees. Just a gut feeling. We can really capitalize by "striking iron while it's hot."

My thoughts...

Shamrock
01-01-2005, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
Here are some teams that may be interested in Brees:

-Bears
-Dolphins
-Cowboys
-Redskins (yep, i heard they are)
-Cleveland
-Oakland
-Green Bay ( Favre is probably retiring after this season)
-Arizona
-San Francisco
I would add the Saints to your list.

Brooks is very inconsistent. Chargers fans love bashing Plummer with the Donkeys, because he'll make a bonehead play or two every game. Ratchet that factor up times three, and you have Brooks. For a 6th year vet, he continues to make poor reads, and dumb plays every game. New Orleans very well might give up on him this offseason.

BoltzaQtion
01-01-2005, 05:48 PM
I'm in the "trade Brees" while they can get so much in return camp too. I agree with all those good points by Tarballed and Shamrock.

Thunderstruck
01-02-2005, 12:05 AM
I keep hearing people say, "In AJ we trust."

Well I ask you, and very seriously...has AJ yet shown himself to be adept at predicting a QB's future success?

Ahhh....but I guess it will be different if he judges Rivers is ready...

There's a reason why there are so many first-round busts at the QB position. It's because they aren't "busts" unless some GM overestimates them and misjudges their potential...I just really don't like the idea of letting a known-quantity walk right in the middle of the team gelling.

GOBOLTS4Life
01-02-2005, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: tarballed
.....

That's my thoughts...tarballed

Great post. My thoughts on the matter pretty much mirror your well stated arguements.

If this comes down to purely a football decision, then the question is:

Can Rivers play at or near the level of Brees next season?

If Marty and AJ believe the answer is yes, then Brees is gone.

We can only speculate on that answer, as practices are closed, and Rivers hasn't seen enough pro action for anyone to postulate on his future development.

I'm fully in the "trade Brees" camp.


I have to disagree with the I'm fully in the "trade Brees" camp", I was on the get rid of Shottenheimer wagon, I was on the play rivers, and trade brees before the deadline wagon, and I was Wayyyy wrong on both accounts.. We have a great gel with our offense and defense, So we have Rivers on the sideline and We have a Pro bowl-QB that can take us to the promise land, I say let Rivers sit until its time, so we are wasting money keeping him benched, but if Brees is producing Who is really gonna complain about Rivers sitting on the bench?? Just my opinion..

Jesu666
01-02-2005, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
...
a lot of his improvment is because of the following:

-pro-bowl Running Back
-emergence of Gates (Pro-bowler now)
-very solid offensive line
-Nice set of WR corps
-better defense that does not force our offense to come from behind

All of those contribute to Brees improvement.
...

Wait a minute? Are you trying to take something away from LT because he didn't make the Pro Bowl last season, despite his record-breaking year? He had a better year last year than this year. Other than that, you're right that Brees didn't quite have the help from the rest of the team last year.

So, let me get this straight. We had none of these ingredients last year to support Brees, so he gets all the credit for doing poorly, but since we have these things this year he gets none of the credit for our incredible season?

tarballed
01-02-2005, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by: Jesu666

Originally posted by: tarballed
...
a lot of his improvment is because of the following:

-pro-bowl Running Back
-emergence of Gates (Pro-bowler now)
-very solid offensive line
-Nice set of WR corps
-better defense that does not force our offense to come from behind

All of those contribute to Brees improvement.
...

Wait a minute? Are you trying to take something away from LT because he didn't make the Pro Bowl last season, despite his record-breaking year? He had a better year last year than this year. Other than that, you're right that Brees didn't quite have the help from the rest of the team last year.

So, let me get this straight. We had none of these ingredients last year to support Brees, so he gets all the credit for doing poorly, but since we have these things this year he gets none of the credit for our incredible season?

Re-read my post man. You missed most of it.

I took nothing away from LT.
I gave Drew credit for improving this year. I mentioned "ingredients" that helped in his success this year.

Yes, Brees played poorly last year. Why else did AJ draft a QB then?

Is my post difficult or something?

Jesu666
01-02-2005, 08:29 PM
I read all of your post, tarballed. I responded to some of it. You are acting as if Drew Brees hasn't had a Pro Bowl year. He hasn't been managing games for us; He's been flat out winning them, even blowing out numerous opponents with little aid from the best running back in the NFL today (and someday ever). No one is trying to give him the keys to the city (though if we win it all, I'll be first in line to sign such a petition). All we want to give him is a chance to continue to do what he has done for this team this year. We are 12-4, AFC West Division Champions, and playoff bound. It is, in very large part, due to the break out play of our quarterback, Drew Brees.

Natedawg01
01-03-2005, 04:56 AM
I'm a Rivers supporter. However, my support of the Chargers team itself goes above and beyond rivers. So, I'm going to be fair and compare the pros/cons of keeping or trading Brees.

Pros:

He's a competitor, he's going to work hard
He *wants* to be in San Diego, and I respect him for that
He's a pro bowler
He stepped up when most people would have just given up and ask to be traded
He's led the team well, has the respect of the team, and that means a lot

Cons:

It's going to be a 9 million cap hit...that's huge, and if done, could take away our ability to sign other key players to long term contracts

We could get two first round draft picks for him, and that would be huge for the team
We'd have a 40 million dollar QB ridding the bench if he stays
We're not sure if he's a one year wonder, a product of the system, plain lucky, or the real deal (one year is super, but can he repeat? no one knows at this point)

If you ask me?

I can't deny that Brees has played spectacular, he's surpased any expectations I had of him. But when I look at the overall picture, at what is best for the team, having two extreamly high priced QBs on the roster isn't kosher. If I was the GM, I'd want to sign as many key players to long term contracts as possible to keep the team and the chemistry in tact. I could also use that extra cap space on key FA players to further the team. If I could get an extra two first rounders for him as well, I'd jump on it.

The downside is having a rookie QB go through his lumps and possibly himder the team for a year. Big Ben proved that with the right players around you, you can win. We have the right players in place. Both ben and she-li proved that with simplified gameplans, performance from rookie QBs improves (really, I dislike eli as much as anyone else that's a bolts fan, but if eli had been on a better team, he'd have won more, it wasn't all his fault). That would be up to the coaches, but I have faith they'd partake in that.

Brees has earned my respect, but the right decision in my opinion is to franchise him and trade him.

Jesu666
01-03-2005, 12:09 PM
Nate, that's rediculous. The obvious option is to keep both. If Brees reverts to 2003 form in 2005, then we have Rivers to begin taking over the reigns for the future. If we keep both, we can't lose.

tarballed
01-03-2005, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by: Jesu666
Nate, that's rediculous. The obvious option is to keep both. If Brees reverts to 2003 form in 2005, then we have Rivers to begin taking over the reigns for the future. If we keep both, we can't lose.

But we can lose out if we keep Brees and he reverts to the 2003 season.
That is why some of us feel we should take advantage of his success and get what we can for him now, which should be pretty good.

Otherwise, if we did sign him to a 1 year deal and he flops like 2003, we will get nada for him.

Looking at both sides of the coin here. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Boltbrad
01-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Tarballed, you could not have stated your case any better. I've been reading this forum for quite a while now and have not seen this subject covered better. I am in total agreement with you. I am AJ fan, he'll do what's best. This year has been a heck of a ride, but we have an oportunity to become a powerhouse if we take advantage of our circumstances. What a great position to be in! I'm looking forward to this weekend and beyond. Draft day is really becoming something to look forward to. Somebody pinch me!

RMANCIL
01-03-2005, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed

Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: tarballed
I honestly believe there could be a great opportunity here to cash in with Brees and really land some more draft picks and sign some quality Free agents.
AJ can set up the franchise to be a top tier team for a long time if they use the cap wisely, and get good compensation for Brees.

I'm not "QB Centric." I firmly believe that a QB's production is directly related to the talent around him. I do think that Brees improved his play, but the fact that all the players around him (and the defense) have improved is just as much related to the elevation in perceived quarterbacking play.

Rivers will have a learning curve. But, with more money available to spend on players other than the QB, and extra compensation for trading Brees, SD can acquire more talent to an already improving squad. The Chargers can "protect" Rivers in the manner that Pittsburgh is protecting Big Ben. Surround him with a good OL, good WR's, a great running game, and a shut down defense.

This year is great, and we still have a shot to win the big prize, but the future is damn promising if the Chargers utilize all their assets wisely.

See, that is my exact thinking as well. It's pretty cut and dry in my opinion. As I have said before, we are a good team. But we can become a great team and be a top tier team for a long time by continuing to build this team on both sides of the ball. Surround Rivers with talent and build a suffocating defense and this team will be good for a long time.

Who would you sign as a F.A. that would be more help to the team than Brees?

If you got one more 1st round and another 3rd round pick to go with the two first we already have along with the second and third what selections do you think we should make that will guarantee success?
IF Brees played better due to better play by the offense and defensive lines and from the wr would all of these groups need to fail as well for Brees to dumb down next year?

What is to say Brees won't be better next season along with the OL and DL lines and the young group of star players we already have ,Caldwell, Gates, Phillips ,Jammer, Florence,Hardwick ,Fonuti ,Phillips,Leber,Keil,Jammer ext ,ext.

Why do you want to gamble at QB ,I mean you are right a lot of clubs value Pro Bowl young QB very much why don't you?

How many QB's have the Chargers had since Dan Fouts that were not Pro Bowl players?

How long has it been since the Chargers were in the playoffs?

Are there some new warranties on QB's or first round picks that I don't know about that guarantees success?
If there is why have so many QB's been failures that were drafted in the first round?

I just don't see any harm in playing it safe and keeping both on the team I don't think either's value will take to much of a hit and I like the depth at QB. I don't think we will get any more big time high contract F.A. I just don't think Smith is going that way. I instead I can see perhaps one or two medium priced players to go with this draft and resigning the key players that are in place now.

The stadium and staying in S.D. and winning are all linked together for better or worse it is just a fact that the place sells out for a winning team and not for a loser. The fans also vote for winners and not for losers.

The money side of it is huge much more than Brees or Rivers contract combined. This team as it is now is a very good team and with out any additions should be back next year for the playoffs. When you factor in two first round picks along with a second and a third we don't need any more draft picks we only have so much room on the roster at this time.

Bird in hand.

tarballed
01-03-2005, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL

Who would you sign as a F.A. that would be more help to the team than Brees?

I'm talking about anyone in particular. We would have the luxury to sign who we want.



If you got one more 1st round and another 3rd round pick to go with the two first we already have along with the second and third what selections do you think we should make that will guarantee success?
IF Brees played better due to better play by the offense and defensive lines and from the wr would all of these groups need to fail as well for Brees to dumb down next year?

All I said was, we could have more picks to draft better players at positions of need. Im not guaranteeing anything. But our chances are better if you have more picks in the earlier rounds to draft positions we see fit.



What is to say Brees won't be better next season along with the OL and DL lines and the young group of star players we already have ,Caldwell, Gates, Phillips ,Jammer, Florence,Hardwick ,Fonuti ,Phillips,Leber,Keil,Jammer ext ,ext.

Nothing says Brees won't be better next year. Nothing says Brees will be the same either. The QB is the toughest position on the field and if you are going to see any position degrade quickly, from one season to the next, I think most here would agree it would be the QB position. I would expect our OL and DL to be the same, if not better next year.



Why do you want to gamble at QB ,I mean you are right a lot of clubs value Pro Bowl young QB very much why don't you?

And where have I specifically stated I do not value a Pro Bowl QB?
This is nothing personal against Brees. I'm looking at this in every way I can. My argument is that the Chargers can continue to build a better IF they decided to trade Brees by: saving $9 million dollars to spend elsewhere and pickup more draft picks to draft players of need. I have stated many times, the Chargers have a chance to capitalize here. If you read my previous post, you will see that I stated that if the Chargers continue to build this team on both sides of the ball and surround Rivers with even more talent, it makes everything that much better.



How many QB's have the Chargers had since Dan Fouts that were not Pro Bowl players?

How long has it been since the Chargers were in the playoffs?

None. What does that prove?
'95?



Are there some new warranties on QB's or first round picks that I don't know about that guarantees success?
If there is why have so many QB's been failures that were drafted in the first round?

I have no idea where you are pulling this from. But I haven't guaranteed anything.



I just don't see any harm in playing it safe and keeping both on the team I don't think either's value will take to much of a hit and I like the depth at QB. I don't think we will get any more big time high contract F.A. I just don't think Smith is going that way. I instead I can see perhaps one or two medium priced players to go with this draft and resigning the key players that are in place now.

If they decide to keep both of the, fine. All I pointed out was my opinion on options we have and what I think would be a good thing to pursue. But what if reverts to the 2003 form? His value just fell through the bottom. I didn't say we could pursue high priced FA's. I said the money saved on the $9 million for one with Brees coudl be used to get FA's as well as sign our current players to longer contracts.

[quote]

The stadium and staying in S.D. and winning are all linked together for better or worse it is just a fact that the place sells out for a winning team and not for a loser. The fans also vote for winners and

Shamrock
01-03-2005, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL

Who would you sign as a F.A. that would be more help to the team than Brees?

If you got one more 1st round and another 3rd round pick to go with the two first we already have along with the second and third what selections do you think we should make that will guarantee success?

Bird in hand.

Is there a safety out there in FA? Is there a DE out there in FA?

Resign Gates, Caldwell, Leber, Fonoti, Chatman, Jammer, etc ... to long term deals. That $9 mill can go a long way towards keeping our own players and adding the few ingredients that are missing.

A team wins, and a team loses. The QB is not the sole reason for winning and losing. The best QB in football wouldn't have gotten any more wins on that 2003 Chargers team.

Brees still has trouble with the deep out. Brees still can't split defenders with a cannon shot over the middle.

I like Drew Brees, and you know as well as anyone that I didn't want the Bolts to draft Rivers. Now that he's here, the salary cap is the main culprit in whether or not Drew stays. In the old days, you would keep both, and let Rivers sit for 3 years, but that isn't the economics of football now.

"Bird in Hand" - Maybe not. If someone tenders AJ an offer for Brees, and it has a $25 mill signing bonus and a 2005 base salary of $10 mill, do you match?

Not me. I take the 2 #1's and enroll the kid in QB school.

RMANCIL
01-03-2005, 07:23 PM
Tarball my problem is you are not talking in specifics but in generalities and you are playing a what if game. What if Brees doesn't play well is your retort. Mine is that the chances of a pro bowl QB playing well is much better than a green Rookie QB.

What if ,chezz "if" is a big word but if you stopped being a Rivers fan and looked at it as a Old time Bolt fan chances are the older pro bowl player will play better next year than the rookie.Now you say spend the money some where else and again I say where?

We have a playoff team now. We have a pro bowl QB now. We have a very good team now.We will pick up three played from this draft who will help other wise we are set we have just 52 spots on the roster. We don't need any more draft picks to get to the playoffs. The point with trading for picks is to get to the playoffs. We are their we don't need to trade away Brees because he might not play well.

We don't need to trade Rivers because he might not play well. We need to keep them both because they both will play well and we can afford it we have 25 million dollars under the cap. We can sign our players it isn't a problem. We do not have a cap problem nor do we have a QB controversy Brees is the QB.

After next year we can look at it again the last thing we need to do is trade Brees and have Rivers fail and in my mind their is a bigger chance of that happing than Brees failing.Talk about looking stupid if the Bolts traded a Pro Bowl QB and had the rookie stink up the joint then we look like do do.

I will take keeping the team intact adding three or four kids who make it onto this team because the rest will fail as the roster is full of great ball players. Did you see how well the backups played vs. K.C.

We can draft a F.S. and another DL and a OLT and get them in this draft watch A.J. and cheer for the team ,including Brees our M.V.P. this year, The object of the draft is to draft players who can improve your team to the point of it being a playoff team.

Houston we have a playoff team, hello, hello come in Houston repeat we have a playoff team !!! If it an't broke please don't fix it

RMANCIL
01-03-2005, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: RMANCIL

Who would you sign as a F.A. that would be more help to the team than Brees?

If you got one more 1st round and another 3rd round pick to go with the two first we already have along with the second and third what selections do you think we should make that will guarantee success?

Bird in hand.

Is there a safety out there in FA? Is there a DE out there in FA?

Resign Gates, Caldwell, Leber, Fonoti, Chatman, Jammer, etc ... to long term deals. That $9 mill can go a long way towards keeping our own players and adding the few ingredients that are missing.

A team wins, and a team loses. The QB is not the sole reason for winning and losing. The best QB in football wouldn't have gotten any more wins on that 2003 Chargers team.

Brees still has trouble with the deep out. Brees still can't split defenders with a cannon shot over the middle.

I like Drew Brees, and you know as well as anyone that I didn't want the Bolts to draft Rivers. Now that he's here, the salary cap is the main culprit in whether or not Drew stays. In the old days, you would keep both, and let Rivers sit for 3 years, but that isn't the economics of football now.

"Bird in Hand" - Maybe not. If someone tenders AJ an offer for Brees, and it has a $25 mill signing bonus and a 2005 base salary of $10 mill, do you match?

Not me. I take the 2 #1's and enroll the kid in QB school.

At this time I think we have enough Money under the cap to sign our key players we will know more as we get the playoffs behind us but I have read nothing at this point that indicates a problem in the least.
Brees is a Pro Bowl QB and the best QB on this roster today .We do not have another Pro Bowl QB ready to take his place.

You saw Rivers Sunday right.

We have two 1## now and a 2,3 as well plus all of our picks next year.Our roster is loaded we will put the cherries on the double scoop in the draft. This club is not going after any big time F.A It looks like we are going to stay stocked up with the draft and perhaps sign a few key f.a player's like Foley who are bargain hard working blue collar types.

We have a playoff team and we have a young rookie QB who can sit at least another season. His cap is 3 million or so it isn't a problem.
I would try and sign Brees long term but Smith indicated he would franchise Brees and see if he can play as well next season and then perhaps talk long term seems like a wise plan to me.The Bolts can afford to do that.

Rivers has not been a team distraction to his credit this year and if both of them can get along then the fans should as well. Just win baby

It is a team game and the team needs to have a good QB he doesn't have to be great, Brees has been great, he has played much better than I thought he would. He also seems to be getting better every game. With the pass rules that are in place you need a Solid QB who doesn't turn the ball over and who can convert on 3rd down.
That is the reason why so many teams do covet Brees and that is the same reason to keep him.

I support keeping this playoff team intact it has been too long and to hard of a journey to gamble next year on Rivers not if we don't have to and we don't.

WHITELIGHTNING
01-04-2005, 01:40 PM
People that say "If it aint broke dont fix it" scare the hell out of me, If you dont maintain something it will soon be broken. This may shock some of you but I dont think Brees will fall on his face next year, I also dont believe he will make the Pro Bowl again next year either. I do think he will become an average to slightly above QB. If AJ gets an offer of 2 first round choices for Brees and doesn't take them, I would be shocked. I do agree with Shamrock as far as, IF Rivers can equal Drew's play then the team doesn't lose that much. Many Brees fans in here have said the only reason Big Ben is so good is the people around him. Well both, Shamrock and Tarball make sence, Trade Brees save money and gain picks. Build a strong team and maintain it and we stay at the top for a long time. I also dont think I would sign Brees to a franchise contract 9-10 mil. is a lot of money for one year just to see if he can do it again. If we keep Brees, we should sign him to a long term cap friendly contract. It's to bad that it has come to this, but Brees is really worth more to the club as trade bait than Rivers. I'd be willing to bet that if AJ offered Jerry Jones of the Cowboys, either Rivers or Brees for his 2 #1's, he would take Brees. Anyway, I agree with both, Tarball and Shamrock on this one.

Capfan
01-04-2005, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed

Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I think that same way - strike while the iron is hot. It appears that the QB's available through the draft this time will be pretty limited because the two top rated QB's are both talking like they'll play another year in college. That only enhances Drews value. Keep Drew another year and you still have the same problem ie. what should we do with the QB situation. You may also have some split among the players regarding which QB they prefer. Next years draft may include as many as three more QB's that are worthy of a first round pick. I like Drew and I'm extremely happy to see how he's progressed this year but this may be a case of a guy that's worth more to the team in trade than he's worth to keep because they have a QB on the bench that appears to have a lot of talent. I certainly hope that those that say the decision will be based off the stadium issue are wrong. This decision should be strictly a football decision, is Rivers ready and how much can we get for Brees - those should be the only considerations.


That is something I forgot to mention. If both Leinhart and Rodgers stay in school (and it looks as if they may) the QB's coming out in April is nothing to be excited about. Thus, teams will be more willing to pay for Brees should we shop him. Brees having a very good year and making the pro-bowl will make his value go up. Factor in this years QB class coming out (lack of that is) as well as a number of teams who need a QB and we are really sitting pretty to grab some very good picks and players if we trade Brees. Here are some teams that may be interested in Brees:

-Bears
-Dolphins
-Cowboys
-Redskins (yep, i heard they are)
-Cleveland
-Oakland
-Green Bay ( Favre is probably retiring after this season)
-Arizona
-San Francisco

Few of those teams are in dire need of a QB.

I honestly think that AJ is going to get an very good offer from one of the teams above and end up trading Brees. Just a gut feeling. We can really capitalize by "striking iron while it's hot."

My thoughts...

If Rivers were to come out this year, do you think he'd be the best QB available? I do, especially since right now it looks like Leinart is staying in. Take a look at the teams picking in the top 11. SF has Dorsey and Rattay. Mia is betting on Feely. Cle can't keep running the Garcia/Holcomb expeiriment. Oak is stuck with Collins and Tuiassopo. AZ played musical chairs all year and Dallas is probably wishing they could trade Henson back to the Yankees.

If any of these teams, (well except the Raiders of course) offered this years first rounder for Rivers would you want AJ to take it?.

JoeMcRugby
01-04-2005, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by: Capfan
If Rivers were to come out this year, do you think he'd be the best QB available? I do, especially since right now it looks like Leinart is staying in. Take a look at the teams picking in the top 11. SF has Dorsey and Rattay. Mia is betting on Feely. Cle can't keep running the Garcia/Holcomb expeiriment. Oak is stuck with Collins and Tuiassopo. AZ played musical chairs all year and Dallas is probably wishing they could trade Henson back to the Yankees.

If any of these teams, (well except the Raiders of course) offered this years first rounder for Rivers would you want AJ to take it?

Not a chance. The salary cap hit will ruin the chance of improving the team for the 2005 season.

And the Chargers can't sit still next season. AJ has the New England blueprint for improving the team through economically sound and overlooked free agents on the market.

BTW In the end, I don't think Leinart will be staying. Look for him to make his announcement sometime in the week AFTER he's played the national championship game, thereby joining Rodgers and Alex Smith.

Shamrock
01-04-2005, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by: Capfan
If any of these teams, (well except the Raiders of course) offered this years first rounder for Rivers would you want AJ to take it?.Yes, and then I'd turn around and trade down, to include a package similar to what we got from the Giants (including 2006 #1).

That would be worth taking the cap hit for Rivers. Then sign Brees long term.

But I don't see it happening. AJ isn't going to trade Rivers, IMO.

tarballed
01-04-2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by: Capfan

If any of these teams, (well except the Raiders of course) offered this years first rounder for Rivers would you want AJ to take it?.

No way.

Besides the cap hit that we would take, AJ publicly stated he is not trading Rivers.

If anybody is going to be traded, it will be Brees.

Chargeroo
01-04-2005, 04:52 PM
If both Rogers and Leinhart come out, then I think it drops Drews value and AJ may not get a good offer for him. In that case, sign him up. It's a dilemma thats kind of pleasant to have, One thing though -they can't afford to keep both of them past next year, so if they keep both of them we go through this same nose bleed again a year from now.

If any of these teams, (well except the Raiders of course) offered this years first rounder for Rivers would you want AJ to take it?

Not me. I keep Rivers at least another year. He still looks like a QB with a great upside to me and the cap hit would be way to big this year. If they can get a ton for Drew, I think they'll hook the future to Rivers. If they can't, the next season determines which one stays and which one gets traded.

I'll tell you this about both of them - I love the team attitude they both have. As far as attitude goes, we can't go wrong.

As I've said many times, I trust the GM and the Coach to do it right. When they make their move, I'm going to support it because I think that they'll do the best they can for our Chargers and I think they have more information about these two than we do.

tarballed
01-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
If both Rogers and Leinhart come out, then I think it drops Drews value and AJ may not get a good offer for him. In that case, sign him up. It's a dilemma thats kind of pleasant to have, One thing though -they can't afford to keep both of them past next year, so if they keep both of them we go through this same nose bleed again a year from now.

Not so sure. There are quite a few teams out there that are in need of a QB and Brees could fit the bill. Especially a team like GB or Dallas. I agree though. Someone will not be here (assuming there are for the 2005 season) after the 2005 season. But i count about half a dozen teams who need a QB. We may not get as many offers from as many teams, but i still think the offers will come in.

JoeMcRugby
01-04-2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
Not so sure. There are quite a few teams out there that are in need of a QB and Brees could fit the bill. Especially a team like GB or Dallas. I agree though. Someone will not be here (assuming there are for the 2005 season) after the 2005 season. But i count about half a dozen teams who need a QB. We may not get as many offers from as many teams, but i still think the offers will come in.

Green Bay will give up their first round pick + other consideration for a back-up QB?

I don't think Favre is retiring, and (as good as he is) since Brees isn't going to beat out Favre, do you think Brees would be happy going to Green Bay to sit on the bench following his breakout season?

As for Dallas, I'll alter my earlier statement in another string: there is a chance that Jerry may trade for Brees, but that will be at the cost of the Tuna leaving town. Brees is NOT the Tuna's type of QB. He likes 'em big and strong-armed. That's pure fact and it applies to all of his football players.

After being talked into going against his instincts about his type of player by Jones for the 2004 and having it backfire in his face, Jones trading for Brees would be the last straw for the Tuna. IMO He'll pack up his bags if that happens.

Same goes for Denny Green and Arizona. For better or worse (and I'm not saying it's a correct view), Green likes big-armed down-the-field QBs to pump the ball to his big play threat WRs.

With Smith, Rodgers and (in all likelihood) Leinart coming out in this year's draft, it's gone from a weak draft for QB's to one not too far from the 2004 draft.

Capfan
01-04-2005, 07:02 PM
I can see the Brees discussion both ways. On one hand, he's winning. And there are a bunch of QB's in the league right now that can't do that. I don't care what QB is coming out or who is expected to break out next year, it doesn't compare to a guy that has won playing at this level. Even though he wouldn't be listed in anybody's top 10 QB's, he's one of a handfull of guys who have proven they can win in this league. And that means alot. You don't trade away a proven winning QB in favor of an unproven rookie.

On the other hand, we know what Brees is. He's a nice QB. Not a superstar. He doesn't do anything that's "special". He doesn't bring amazing touch or a cannon of an arm or the added element of being a threat to break a big run. He has limited his mistakes and runs an offense that suits him well. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But if a team was to step forward and offer 2 first rounders for the guy it would be tough to pass up. Marty and AJ have seen things in Rivers (among the other GM's and Scouts who had him rated as an equal to Manning and Big Ben) that they believe makes him special. Great arm, big play ability, smarts and other intangibles that made him their #1 choice all along. We've already seen he's a class act and a fast learner. And he's had a year to watch and learn how to be a winner. Tough to keep that on the bench.

Bottom line is it's a nice problem to have. I think they'll go with both again next year and have open competition in camp. They created the cap room and that's what it's for. I'd rather see them spend it on their own 2 quality QB's than chase other teams Free Agents.

drangus
01-04-2005, 07:50 PM
I AM A BIG TIME RIVERS FAN AND MAKE NO BONES ABOUT IT THE GUY IS GOING TO BE A SUPERSTAR!!!

HOWEVER IF BREES WINS THE SUPERBOWL YOU CAN'T LET HIM GO!!!

IN TERMS OF VALUE BREES WILL NEVER HAVE THAT KIND OF VALUE AGAIN!!!

THE REASON WHY THE TRADE WORKS RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE TEAMS KNOW THEY CAN'T LOWBALL US BECAUSE WE HAVE THE CAP ROOM TO KEEP HIM!!!

NEXT YEAR THAT MAY NOT BE THE CASE AND THEN YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING UNDER PRESSURE WHICH WILL INCREASE BREES'S LEVERAGE AND PUT THE TEAM IN A BAD SITUATION!!!

THAT OF COURSE IS ASSUMING BREES HAS ANOTHER GREAT YEAR AND DOESN'T GET HURT BECAUSE THEN NOBODY IS GOING TO TRADE FOR HIM!!!

Shamrock
01-04-2005, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL
Brees is a Pro Bowl QB and the best QB on this roster today .We do not have another Pro Bowl QB ready to take his place.
You and I both saw people use that "logic" for dumping Boston and Wiley, etc. They say you can't do it if you don't have blah, blah, blah. Brees isn't a jerk like Boston or Wiley, but using the same logic is flawed. It's not about "replacement" of those single skills, it's about upgrading the whole team.

Brees is a "Pro Bowl" QB in name only. I like him, but he can't throw the deep out, and he can't split defenders with a laser pass. If the Chargers had never drafted Rivers, I would be happy to keep Brees, and use any monies available to upgrade the team.

You can't have that much money tied up in one position. It hurts the rest of the team.

USC sucks.

"pedro" Turn off your fricking caps.

drangus
01-04-2005, 10:47 PM
is this better shamrock?--I agree with some of your assessments of brees in terms of arm strength but lately he has been throwing farther and faster (did he hook up with victor conte?) ha ha! maybe his anticipation has just gotten better so he steps into his throws better--all I know is that he is playing extremely well and he has earned the respect of his teamates--never underestimate that--I would be remiss if I didn't say that I believe leadership skills is one of rivers main strengths--my biggest concerns with brees is that he is too short and doesn't see the field as well--defenses gameplan against him this way and he doesn't have the armstrength to make up the time on a late throws--also I have yet to see him take over a big game like in indy he played great for 3 1/2 quarters and then he can't do anything when the game is on the line--that freeney sack never happens if he audibles into a draw oh and by the way that fumble came from his throwing side that is something that he should have seen and recognized at least in time to avoid the heat by stepping up ala doug flutie--doesn't the guy have any periferral vision?

WHITELIGHTNING
01-05-2005, 05:55 AM
If AJ can work a deal for Rivers that would be great, the kid isn't going to get any better by sitting on the bench. The only problem I see for him in that would be learning a new system and implementing it. I cant say Rivers will be a superstar, but many of the Pro Football experts seem to think he'll do just fine.

Teams like the Cowboys want to win now, I dont believe Parcells wants to go through the growing pains of a young QB. Jerry Jones reminds me of the kind of guy that wants everything done yesterday, would their interest be in Rivers or Brees?, I'd lean towards Brees but who knows.

AJ, will sort all this out after the season. Whatever he chooses to do will be fine by me, I'll still be a Charger fan and Root for my team. Besides with Sunday ticket I can tune into all the games and keep an eye on whats going on around the league.

IgorUnchained
01-05-2005, 06:12 AM
If there is a way to keep Drew I say do it. The guy not only knows the offense, leads the offense, and has the respect of the offense- he is also a Pro Bowl caliber QB who has already proven himself on and off the field. Even if you could replace the arm, could you replace the brain and the heart? I dont remember LT calling Philip the leader of the offense. I say let Philip sit....it isnt like 2nd string Qbs dont get a chance to play.
PR will get his day, but I say lets keep Drew. The offense is set and besides a little depth on both sides of the ball, the secondary is the only noticeable weak spot right now. Cap room shouldnt even be a factor in not keeping this team together first and foremost before we start making 20 year old untested players multi millionaires.

tarballed
01-05-2005, 09:44 AM
Something that has not been mentiond in this thread (Sort of has) is that Brees takes a risk if he signs a one year deal with the Chargers. Why? Well read below.

Put yourself in Drew's situation right now. You are coming off a very good year and you want to capitalize on that. I personally, would be wanting to sign a long term contract to ensure myself of guaranteed money over the course of years. Reason, lets say he does sign a year one deal with the Chargers and comes back in 2005 and reverts to 2003 form. Now, he just lost out on a long term contract and a lot of money.

I would bet that Bree's agent, Condon, will be trying very hard to land Brees a very lucrative, long term deal as well. something in the lines of $40+ million dollars over the course of 6-7 years maybe? I don't know, just guessing right now. But you can bet, Condon will be wanting that and when the Chargers say no, Condon will be wanting a trade.

That is not far fetched at all. that is just business right there.

RMANCIL
01-05-2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by: Shamrock

Originally posted by: RMANCIL
Brees is a Pro Bowl QB and the best QB on this roster today .We do not have another Pro Bowl QB ready to take his place.
You and I both saw people use that "logic" for dumping Boston and Wiley, etc. They say you can't do it if you don't have blah, blah, blah. Brees isn't a jerk like Boston or Wiley, but using the same logic is flawed. It's not about "replacement" of those single skills, it's about upgrading the whole team.

Brees is a "Pro Bowl" QB in name only. I like him, but he can't throw the deep out, and he can't split defenders with a laser pass. If the Chargers had never drafted Rivers, I would be happy to keep Brees, and use any monies available to upgrade the team.

You can't have that much money tied up in one position. It hurts the rest of the team.

USC sucks.

"pedro" Turn off your fricking caps.

You know that Wiley and Boston were bust and had bad attitudes as well.

You also know that being a good QB isn't just about throwing laser deep outs it is more about the gray area upstairs and being a team leader. Last week he dropped a couple of pretty passes over the corners and in front of the safeties.

QB is one position on the team but lets not forget every play starts with him and experience is key. If Bree's get's beat out of the job that is one thing but other wise at this time I don't think the team is in trouble cap wise.

The draft will land three or four more top players to go along with a team that is strong enough to make a Super Bowl run this season.

In sale's there is a old saying "once you have the sell shut up". The idea being that nothing better can happen and the only other out come you won't like.

In football when you have a young playoff team I think you need to be careful as well, as the best that can happen is we make the playoffs again and the worse is we won't.

I remember Beatherd playing with the team chemistry after the 95 season that was a long time ago.I just don't want to see that happen again.

USC looked good to me.

tarballed
01-05-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by: tarballed
Something that has not been mentiond in this thread (Sort of has) is that Brees takes a risk if he signs a one year deal with the Chargers. Why? Well read below.

Put yourself in Drew's situation right now. You are coming off a very good year and you want to capitalize on that. I personally, would be wanting to sign a long term contract to ensure myself of guaranteed money over the course of years. Reason, lets say he does sign a year one deal with the Chargers and comes back in 2005 and reverts to 2003 form. Now, he just lost out on a long term contract and a lot of money.

I would bet that Bree's agent, Condon, will be trying very hard to land Brees a very lucrative, long term deal as well. something in the lines of $40+ million dollars over the course of 6-7 years maybe? I don't know, just guessing right now. But you can bet, Condon will be wanting that and when the Chargers say no, Condon will be wanting a trade.

That is not far fetched at all. that is just business right there.


Wow...check out this, as it relates to my response:

Brees wants long term deal (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20050105-9999-1s5breesfix.html)

JoeMcRugby
01-05-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by: tarballed
Something that has not been mentiond in this thread (Sort of has) is that Brees takes a risk if he signs a one year deal with the Chargers. Why? Well read below.

Put yourself in Drew's situation right now. You are coming off a very good year and you want to capitalize on that. I personally, would be wanting to sign a long term contract to ensure myself of guaranteed money over the course of years. Reason, lets say he does sign a year one deal with the Chargers and comes back in 2005 and reverts to 2003 form. Now, he just lost out on a long term contract and a lot of money.

I would bet that Bree's agent, Condon, will be trying very hard to land Brees a very lucrative, long term deal as well. something in the lines of $40+ million dollars over the course of 6-7 years maybe? I don't know, just guessing right now. But you can bet, Condon will be wanting that and when the Chargers say no, Condon will be wanting a trade.

That is not far fetched at all. that is just business right there.

It's not at all impossible, but do you really think that in the end, Brees will sit out of camp (putting Rivers in the driver's seat - where have we heard that before?), turn his back on $9 million and hold out until he is traded?

I think Brees and Condon will be able to read between the lines and realize that another year like 2004 will cement Brees' long-term future in San Diego. In the end, I think Brees will buck up and prepare himself for 2005 the same way that he has for 2004 and feel confident that he will be able to duplicate (if not improve) upon his performance due to having even more talent surrounding him following the 2005 draft and free agent signing season.

tarballed
01-05-2005, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

It's not at all impossible, but do you really think that in the end, Brees will sit out of camp (putting Rivers in the driver's seat - where have we heard that before?), turn his back on $9 million and hold out until he is traded?

I think Brees and Condon will be able to read between the lines and realize that another year like 2004 will cement Brees' long-term future in San Diego. In the end, I think Brees will buck up and prepare himself for 2005 the same way that he has for 2004 and feel confident that he will be able to duplicate (if not improve) upon his performance due to having even more talent surrounding him following the 2005 draft and free agent signing season.

Not so sure about that now. Look at the article in todays paper. As much as Brees wants to stay in San Diego, if he doesn't get what he wants and can get it elsewhere, Brees is gone.

Boltbrad
01-05-2005, 12:34 PM
Am I missing something, if they franchise him does he even have a choice?

JoeMcRugby
01-05-2005, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed

Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

It's not at all impossible, but do you really think that in the end, Brees will sit out of camp (putting Rivers in the driver's seat - where have we heard that before?), turn his back on $9 million and hold out until he is traded?

I think Brees and Condon will be able to read between the lines and realize that another year like 2004 will cement Brees' long-term future in San Diego. In the end, I think Brees will buck up and prepare himself for 2005 the same way that he has for 2004 and feel confident that he will be able to duplicate (if not improve) upon his performance due to having even more talent surrounding him following the 2005 draft and free agent signing season.

Not so sure about that now. Look at the article in todays paper. As much as Brees wants to stay in San Diego, if he doesn't get what he wants and can get it elsewhere, Brees is gone.

So Brees is prepared to sit out and be in the same position next year? That's his only leverage.

It's possible that the Chargers would react the same as the Skins did with Champ Bailey.

But the Chargers hold the cards in this game of poker (if indeed it comes down to a game of poker). There are very very few players who are worth two number one picks in the draft. IF another team does sign Brees to an offer, then the Chargers will happily take the two number ones in exchange for Brees. Not a bad deal when no team was willing to offer the Chargers one 3rd round pick for Brees last April.

But that won't happen. Brees' only leverage is to hold out. Not a very smart move after having his breakout season.

We'll see what happens, but I'm surprised with Brees' timing of his "announcement" (right before a playoff game).

tarballed
01-05-2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

So Brees is prepared to sit out and be in the same position next year? That's his only leverage.

I don't think he would sit out. MAYBE stretch things into TC, but I don't know. After what I read today in the paper, Drew want's a long term contract from the Chargers. If he doesn't receive a offer, then he is prepared to look elsewhere.



It's possible that the Chargers would react the same as the Skins did with Champ Bailey.

I think they will. Just my thoughts though



But the Chargers hold the cards in this game of poker (if indeed it comes down to a game of poker). There are very very few players who are worth two number one picks in the draft. IF another team does sign Brees to an offer, then the Chargers will happily take the two number ones in exchange for Brees. Not a bad deal when no team was willing to offer the Chargers one 3rd round pick for Brees last April.

From what i've been told and read, you don't necessarily have to give up 2 first round picks for a franchised player. It is whatever agreement the two teams can come to. It could be a first and 4th for example.



But that won't happen. Brees' only leverage is to hold out. Not a very smart move after having his breakout season.

I think his agent, Condon, will seek a trade because I really don't see the Chargers offering Brees a long term contract and I would be surprised if Drew took a one year deal. Too risky for him.



We'll see what happens, but I'm surprised with Brees' timing of his "announcement" (right before a playoff game).

I agree as well. In all honesty, it would have been in his best interest to not comment on this.

JoeMcRugby
01-05-2005, 01:52 PM
When I was talking about the two 1st round picks, I was speaking about IF the Chargers don't bend on a trade demand. In that case, Brees could sign an offer, and if the Chargers didn't match it, they would receive two first round picks as compensation.

THAT'S the scenario I don't see happening because there are few (if any) players in the NFL that teams are willing to fork over two first round picks to get. If Brees is hell bent on a long-term contract, then a trade could very well be in the offing.

But I'll worry about that (just like AJ and Marty) after the 2004 season is over.

tarballed
01-05-2005, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby
When I was talking about the two 1st round picks, I was speaking about IF the Chargers don't bend on a trade demand. In that case, Brees could sign an offer, and if the Chargers didn't match it, they would receive two first round picks as compensation.

Ahh...gotcha. Didn't know.



THAT'S the scenario I don't see happening. If Brees is hell bent on a long-term contract, then a trade could very well be in the offing.

Should be a entertaining offseason.



But I'll worry about that (just like AJ and Marty) after the 2004 season is over.

Lets worry now! J/K i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

drangus
01-06-2005, 04:24 PM
This is not the first time that Brees has shown he IS capable of putting himself ahead of the team--in april he criticized the moves that AJ was making in the offseason up until then I thougt this guy was getting too much blame for what happened in 2003 and kind of took his side but after that I decided maybe he shouldn't be here--I do recognize and respect the fact that he wants to stay in SD for his career but he should have never criticized the organization or spoken about his current contract situation until after the playoffs--to me this is a sign of someone who doesn't respect his employer--I am sure AJ has not forgotten the criticism--moneywise it doesn't make sense to sink the team back into a cap situation for one guy--this team has one in so many ways to give drew so much of the credit is just as idiotic as it was to blame him for everything that went wrong last year--Mart wants rivers--AJ wants rivers--the writing is on the wall people now you brees nuts have to decide are you charger fans or brees fans--and it is not ok for the guy to try and hold the organization hostage on the eve of their biggest game in 9 years.

crazyman33
01-06-2005, 07:27 PM
crap man this better not distract the team.. if they lose ill cry.. i have a couple of friends at my high school who are jets fans.

crazyman33
01-06-2005, 07:29 PM
but i belive in the chargers.. even if drew doesnt have the best game.. LT will step it up and donnie edwards will have a key interception for a touchdown in the 4th quarter

drangus
01-08-2005, 12:03 AM
the bottom line is AJ hasn't forgotten what drew said and their is going to be another purging fellas--only this time we will get something in return for dealing the guy!!!

billyb
01-09-2005, 09:27 AM
aj and marty ,drafted rivers and see him every day in practice.He wasnt rushed in too early like leaf.
I see brees gone via trade and river learning and improving next year.
He has a cannon arm and a quick release, a smart quick learner. We'll run a scaled down offence and try for 8 and 8 with the hardest schedule in the nfl, with luck maybe better!
This kid has to learn and take his lumps, but I believe he will be special...just my opinion ..
icemonkey

Capfan
01-09-2005, 11:22 AM
ESPN had some trade talk this weekend speculating the Cowboys may be interested in trading for Rivers. Somebody on these boards pointed out that Brees is not a Parcells kind of guy, that he liked the big strong armed type. Rivers certainly fits that mold. And if you think about it, where the Cowboys are drafting, they aren't going to have a shot at the best QB's coming out and Rivers just might be better than them anyway in that he has a year of learning under his belt.

So, playing junior GM again, if the Boys were to offer their 11th and either a 3rd or a flip flop of 2nd rounders, would you take it? I'm a little confused about the salary cap ramifications. I know signing bonus's get accelerated, but there's somthing in Rivers contract about 6 million due in early March.

Jesu666
01-12-2005, 04:32 AM
Why is it impossible that the Chargers would offer Brees a mulityear deal?

JoeMcRugby
01-12-2005, 10:00 AM
Because they already have Rivers signed to a long-term deal. They'd need to trade Rivers before they signed Brees to the contract because the Chargers would have no leverage in dealing Rivers. Once Brees is signed to a long-term contract, the writing's on the wall: Rivers is gone and can be acquired at a bargain basement price.

The Chargers can afford to keep Brees at a franchise tag for one season, but eventually they will only be able to afford one QB on a long-term big money deal. And with both QBs on long term deals, the Chargers will suffer a catastrophic cap hit no matter which direction they go.

Dago81
01-12-2005, 03:24 PM
Tarballed couldn't agree more. Great post

RaiderHaterNyourMouth
01-13-2005, 12:29 AM
Keep brees, Trade Rivers for another 1st round..
Wow, Chargers Looking good

danny3
01-15-2005, 03:59 PM
As much as i like Drew, which is a lot, i think Rivers will end up becoming the Chargers "QB of the Future". He is bigger, he has a better arm, and in my opinion, will probably be a way WAY better quarterback than Drew will ever be. Of course, none of this means diddly unless you can make good decisions under pressure, and show some type of leadership, which Rivers did well college. Though the NFL is a totally different animal, WE STILL NEED TO GIVE RIVERS A CHANCE. It took Brees 3 years to accomplish what he did, and who knows how well Brees will perform next year. I'm sure if we gave Rivers 3 years he'de probably do as well if not better, especially with the way our O Line is performing. We shouldn't be downplaying Rivers w/out giving him a chance. Just my opinion though, i could be wrong. Who knows, I guess the future will tell.

TrumpetDude
01-15-2005, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by: tarballed
[quote]
Originally posted by: 214SD6
if we win the superbowl i could see the team moving Brees. We did it now on to the futre could be their thinking.

If we could get first round types I would sign and trade #9 cause AJ said PR will not be traded, so you may as well get as much for drew as you can....its inevitable. gonna miss #9 he is a class act.

If someone offers two #1 draft picks for Brees this offseason, you can bet AJ will take it. Most will miss Brees when he is traded, but the fact is, when the Botls FO drafted Rivers in April, they made their decision right then and there. That pretty much sealed Brees's fate in San Diego.



Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I see your point and I don't disagree with it. However, think of the flip side of it - If he's traded for the two firsts you could could get two good players, perhaps long time starters. Also, you'd have that 9 million dollars or so to spend for other players as needed. Maybe you could sign a great Safety or a great pass rusher from the Free Agent period?

This is something I think people overlook. I agree with you Chargeroo though. The $9million used for Brees could easily be used on a number of players via FA. A few that come to mind: Dwight Smith, John Abraham, also, we could use the money to sign our current players to long term deals as well. The $9 million dollars is very important and should not be taken likely.

What I find amusing on this board is how quickly people forget how BAD Brees played last year. And I do man bad. Now that we are winning, a lot of people here are ready to give him the keys to the city. He has only performed on year. He has played better I agree. BUT, a lot of his improvment is because of the following:

-pro-bowl Running Back
-emergence of Gates (Pro-bowler now)
-very solid offensive line
-Nice set of WR corps
-better defense that does not force our offense to come from behind

All of those contribute to Brees improvement.

Our offense is not that complicated. It is pretty vanilla. I read an article awhile ago where people agreed that you could put a wide variety of QB's in our offense, with our personal, and they would have success. So why can't Rivers have success in this offense?

People say Rivers doesn't have experience. He is raw. Well of course he is. He is a rookie. He will get his playing time soon enough.

Also, here are a few more things.

1.) We don't know what we have in Rivers. We could have a superstar or a bust. we don't know. We will just have to wait and see.

2.) Brees is having a good year. BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE HE WILL DO IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR. For all we know, he is having a "career year." For all we know, he could flop again next year and revert to the 2003 season, but nobody knows.

For all the people who say "Brees has arrived." YOu know what, when he does it consistently over a number of years, then I will agree with that statement. One year alone does not make him a superstar. He could end up being a one year wonder.

I think the Chargers should take advantage of Brees and his success right now and franchise him and trade him. If a very lucrative deal comes around for him, i don't see why we wouldn't jump on it.

If we can make this team better in certain areas, then we are seriously a force to be reckon with.

-get a real pass rush to consistently put pressure on the QB
-fix the secondary that is so pourus (Sign Dwight Smith, ot whatever)
-sign/draft a true #1 WR - Edwards/Williams
-build depth at the DL and OL position

You fix what needs to be fixed and build on areas for depth and this team will be a dynasty for a long long time. The casualty for this will be Brees.

Flame my post. Hate my post. whatever. But the fact of the matter is, this team is a good team but we can be e

Rip
01-16-2005, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby
Because they already have Rivers signed to a long-term deal.

So? Didnt the patriots sign Drew Bledsoe to a $100 million dollar contract?? Then Tom Brady performed like an all pro and lead a crappy team to the playoffs (and super bowl win) when they had been 0-4 at that point in the season.

Long story short, the pats traded away the $100 mil contract because they had a guy would performed at such a high level.

BTW, who's blueprint for sucess has AJ tried to follow?? i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

RMANCIL
01-16-2005, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by: pedro
This is not the first time that Brees has shown he IS capable of putting himself ahead of the team--in april he criticized the moves that AJ was making in the offseason up until then I thougt this guy was getting too much blame for what happened in 2003 and kind of took his side but after that I decided maybe he shouldn't be here--I do recognize and respect the fact that he wants to stay in SD for his career but he should have never criticized the organization or spoken about his current contract situation until after the playoffs--to me this is a sign of someone who doesn't respect his employer--I am sure AJ has not forgotten the criticism--moneywise it doesn't make sense to sink the team back into a cap situation for one guy--this team has one in so many ways to give drew so much of the credit is just as idiotic as it was to blame him for everything that went wrong last year--Mart wants rivers--AJ wants rivers--the writing is on the wall people now you brees nuts have to decide are you charger fans or brees fans--and it is not ok for the guy to try and hold the organization hostage on the eve of their biggest game in 9 years.


Yes he is a real trouble maker we should tie him to a tree and stone him!!!

Chezzz what a load.

RMANCIL
01-16-2005, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by: TrumpetDude
[quote]
Originally posted by: tarballed
[quote]
Originally posted by: 214SD6
if we win the superbowl i could see the team moving Brees. We did it now on to the futre could be their thinking.

If we could get first round types I would sign and trade #9 cause AJ said PR will not be traded, so you may as well get as much for drew as you can....its inevitable. gonna miss #9 he is a class act.

If someone offers two #1 draft picks for Brees this offseason, you can bet AJ will take it. Most will miss Brees when he is traded, but the fact is, when the Botls FO drafted Rivers in April, they made their decision right then and there. That pretty much sealed Brees's fate in San Diego.



Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I see your point and I don't disagree with it. However, think of the flip side of it - If he's traded for the two firsts you could could get two good players, perhaps long time starters. Also, you'd have that 9 million dollars or so to spend for other players as needed. Maybe you could sign a great Safety or a great pass rusher from the Free Agent period?

This is something I think people overlook. I agree with you Chargeroo though. The $9million used for Brees could easily be used on a number of players via FA. A few that come to mind: Dwight Smith, John Abraham, also, we could use the money to sign our current players to long term deals as well. The $9 million dollars is very important and should not be taken likely.

What I find amusing on this board is how quickly people forget how BAD Brees played last year. And I do man bad. Now that we are winning, a lot of people here are ready to give him the keys to the city. He has only performed on year. He has played better I agree. BUT, a lot of his improvment is because of the following:

-pro-bowl Running Back
-emergence of Gates (Pro-bowler now)
-very solid offensive line
-Nice set of WR corps
-better defense that does not force our offense to come from behind

All of those contribute to Brees improvement.

Our offense is not that complicated. It is pretty vanilla. I read an article awhile ago where people agreed that you could put a wide variety of QB's in our offense, with our personal, and they would have success. So why can't Rivers have success in this offense?

People say Rivers doesn't have experience. He is raw. Well of course he is. He is a rookie. He will get his playing time soon enough.

Also, here are a few more things.

1.) We don't know what we have in Rivers. We could have a superstar or a bust. we don't know. We will just have to wait and see.

2.) Brees is having a good year. BUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE HE WILL DO IT AGAIN NEXT YEAR. For all we know, he is having a "career year." For all we know, he could flop again next year and revert to the 2003 season, but nobody knows.

For all the people who say "Brees has arrived." YOu know what, when he does it consistently over a number of years, then I will agree with that statement. One year alone does not make him a superstar. He could end up being a one year wonder.

I think the Chargers should take advantage of Brees and his success right now and franchise him and trade him. If a very lucrative deal comes around for him, i don't see why we wouldn't jump on it.

If we can make this team better in certain areas, then we are seriously a force to be reckon with.

-get a real pass rush to consistently put pressure on the QB
-fix the secondary that is so pourus (Sign Dwight Smith, ot whatever)
-sign/draft a true #1 WR - Edwards/Williams
-build depth at the DL and OL position

You fix what needs to be fixed and build on areas for depth and this team will be a dynasty for a long long time. The casualty for this will be Brees.

Flame my post. Hate my post. what

TrumpetDude
01-16-2005, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL

I am always amazed that you guys throw water on Brees with this "hope" he can do better or as well line. When I read that it says to me that you don't think that he can and that you hope that he doesn't.

Why is it ok to hope for Rivers and not Brees?

Why do you think it makes more since to think a Rookie is going to play at a pro bowl level when he has not played to any real level at all in the N.F.L.? Yet you guys make it sound like a impossable feat that Brees who has played at a Pro Bowl level could ever do it again.

I must say all of you QB focused posters be it for one or the other drive me crazy with your myopic takes. I just don't know how you guys can be fans and have such distorted views of our players. I quess some things are not meant for me to understand.

How bout a tip of the hat to Brees and lets hope the entire club comes back and all of them play better!
Brees and Rivers sure seem to get along better than our posters.

Fact is that based on your past takes Trumpie they should have traded Brees before the trade dead line last season.
Based on that and based on Rivers K.C. game if we had followed that lodgic the team would have never made the playoffs.

Rivers is a rookie a rookie a unproven player vs a proven one, wow what a choice proven or unproven.

If a poster is not in agreement with your sentiments, why is this "myopic" or being labeled as "Q.B. focused posters?"

I will leave this thread alone for obvious and not so obvious reasons. It just is not worth the hassles of repeated personal attacks due to whatever personal motivations you seem to continue posting.

Please for the repeated ump-teenth time, consider structuring posts which are not personally denegrating in the future. I would certainly appreciate this courtesy.

HeadTrip
01-16-2005, 01:32 PM
Lol at Rmancil... that was quite a narrow view. The decision is not just brees or rivers, it is brees or rivers and who we get in free agency with the extra 9 mill and the draft picks/players we get in the trade. Not such an easy choice now is it.

I have made it known that I love Drew and was against the drafting of PR. Now we are in a situation where we need to do whats best for the chargers. If you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that the trade could be more beneficial than no change.

What it boils down to is this:

Is keeping our great, young QB more valuble than a potentially great QB, signing some very valuble free agents, having draft picks for the future, and whatever players you might get with the trade?

billyb
01-16-2005, 07:02 PM
myOPIC!!! SORRY WE DONT AGREE WITH YOUR OPINION .I thought this was a forum!
The chargers have a tuff decision ahead. Remember it was brees poor play a year ago that made the
charger brass think they had to upgrade the qb position. To breses credit he turned into a solid qb.
Now our problem is the big cap hit! I watched rivers in college,with a crappy o line and he was awesome
this means nothing in the nfl. I dont really know what the chargers should do.If you trade rivers you might be trading the next dan marino, I dont think brees will be of this caliber but I could be wrong

IgorUnchained
01-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Flutie retires, Brees is traded, Rivers starts........lets wrap our minds around that one.

We would only have 2 quarterbacks on our team....with a combined regular season playing time that equals the length of an episode of Seinfeld.

What if Rivers gets hurt? Cleo Lemon is the starting QB, and he has no backup? Flutie will retire, and if Brees is traded we will still need another QB with either alot of talent or some experience...then we are still in the same boat!

OlderBolt
01-16-2005, 11:15 PM
In an ideal world and from a solely player personnel perspective, it would be really nice to be able to keep both QBs. But we all know this world is anything but perfect; nor are the rules (NFL Salary Cap and NFLPA labor agreements) which influence all too many player personnel decisions.

To give Drew a long term contract (which is what he wants) is unrealistic because a disproportionate number of cap dollars must then be allocated to the QB position; which, in short order, would put us right back in the salary cap dilemma AJ and Ed McGuire just dug us out of.

The only way that scenario could become a more palatable option is if we were to trade Rivers; also a questionable move cap-wise (I read somewhere that we'd take about a $10 million hit on this year's cap -- correct me if I'm wrong) in that these are dollars that would simply be wasted; gone forever . . . never to return. Moreover it also translates into having to exchange 2004's overall number one draft pick for the 2005 1st Round pick of the team making the trade; which, unless that is one of the teams holding picks 1, 2, 3, or 4, we'd lose even more value from the trade AJ engineered with the Giants. Even worse, the loss of cap dollars could have a most detrimental effect on any free agency moves the team is contemplating. Overall, a really bad move.

The only move remaining is to trade Drew.

RMANCIL
01-17-2005, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by: HeadTrip
Lol at Rmancil... that was quite a narrow view. The decision is not just brees or rivers, it is brees or rivers and who we get in free agency with the extra 9 mill and the draft picks/players we get in the trade. Not such an easy choice now is it.

I have made it known that I love Drew and was against the drafting of PR. Now we are in a situation where we need to do whats best for the chargers. If you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that the trade could be more beneficial than no change.

What it boils down to is this:

Is keeping our great, young QB more valuble than a potentially great QB, signing some very valuble free agents, having draft picks for the future, and whatever players you might get with the trade?

Sir the team at this time has 21 million to apply, to resigning players and F.A. This club is not in a bind.
Potential is great that is what a draft is about, Rivers has potential he isn't proven, nothing wrong with that.

In time I have every hope that his potential is realized.

Pro Bowl QB are very valuable clearly that is why teams are willing if not eager to trade their first round picks that have the potential of leading to a great player for the realization of one.

The point of the exercise is to develop a great pro bowl player. We have one his name is Drew Brees he just finished the best season this team has had in over a decade.

Now in my life a decade is a long time to wait.

I have seen a boat load of players come and go. I have seen a boat load of draft picks as well. I know that 40% of the first round picks fail to make it in the N.F.L.

Of the 60% which includes all positions half 50% fail to have a pro bowl appearance. When you narrow the focus to QB the odds are against you.

For every Ben Rothlisburger you will have three Ryan Leafs, Tim Couch ext.

Lets look at past drafts and let history guide us.

2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall
2 3 3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi 49ers Hofstra
3 3 13 75 Chris Redman Ravens Louisville
4 5 34 163 Tee Martin Steelers Tennessee
1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky
2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse
3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon
4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA
6 2 19 50 Shaun King Buccaneers Tulane
1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State
3 2 30 60 Charlie Batch Lions Eastern Michigan
1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech
2 2 12 42 Jake Plummer Cardinals Arizona State
3 4 3 99 Danny Wuerffel Saints Florida
1996 1 2 12 42 Tony Banks Rams Michigan State
2 3 24 85 Bobby Hoying Eagles Ohio State
3 4 5 100 Jeff Lewis Broncos Northern Arizona
1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State
2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State
3 2 13 45 Todd Collins Bills Michigan
1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Redskins Tennessee
2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State
3 4 8 111 Perry Klein Falcons C.W. Post
1993 1 1 1 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots Washington State
2 1 2 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks Notre Dame
3 3 2 58 Billy Joe Hobert Raiders Washington
1992 1 1 6 6 David Klingler Bengals Houston
2 1 25 25 Tommy Maddox Broncos UCLA
3 2 12 40 Matt Blundin Chiefs Virginia
1991 1 1 16 16 Dan McGwire Seahawks San Diego State
2 1 24 24 Todd Marinovich Raiders USC
3 2 6 33 Brett Favre Falcons Southern Mississippi
4 2 7 34 Browning Nagle Jets Louisville


Pro bowl
Brett Favre Falcons Southern Mississippi
Drew Bledsoe Patriots Washington State
Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse

Slim pickings

Now I am sorry if you take this as a personal attack it isn

RMANCIL
01-17-2005, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by: billyb
myOPIC!!! SORRY WE DONT AGREE WITH YOUR OPINION .I thought this was a forum!
The chargers have a tuff decision ahead. Remember it was brees poor play a year ago that made the
charger brass think they had to upgrade the qb position. To breses credit he turned into a solid qb.
Now our problem is the big cap hit! I watched rivers in college,with a crappy o line and he was awesome
this means nothing in the nfl. I dont really know what the chargers should do.If you trade rivers you might be trading the next dan marino, I dont think brees will be of this caliber but I could be wrong


Look it up , it has nothing to do with agreeing with my position. Now if it fits for you I don't know I have not followed your post if all you do is post on this one subject then it would.

I am guilty of using the term in a general fashion and not in a specific one, my post quoted a individual however not all of my reply was directed to him exclusively.

If that offends you I am sorry , if it enlightens then I am glad, if it changes your mind that was my hope.

Chargeroo
01-17-2005, 08:52 AM
I don't have a crystal ball but I do have pretty good perception and a lot of years of playing and watching this game. The game at the NFL level is extremely tough. These guys beat hell out of one another week after week. That's why the men in the trenches are so important. In the NE - Indy game the team that had the ability to open holes for the running game and give their passer time in the pocket won the game. Brady and his WR's are not as good as Peyton and his WR's ---- it's the O-line that wins it for the Pats. Now transfer that over to our Chargers - our O-line doesn't dominate like the Pats line does. We have a great RB but can't sustain drives because he gets hit behind the LOS too darn often. So now what happens if we keep Brees and he's every bit as good as he was this year? (my perception says he is) I think we have another good season, maybe get in the playoffs, and some team with a stronger O-line plays keep away and we lose in the playoffs again. We need to continue to improve our O-line. What we have now is a good pass blocking line but a line that's only fair at run blocking. Trading Drew Brees gives us more players or draft picks as well as more money to sign some better O-line players, as well as the WR, DE, LB, and Safety we need to turn this team into the Super Bowl team that we all want.

The risk, of course, is that Philip isn't ready for the NFL or worse yet, that he never becomes a good QB. However, shouldn't our front office trust their own eyes, trust their own judgment? I think they should and if, in their judgment, Philip Rivers is good to go, they should bite the bullet now. That would be the best way to turn this "playoff team" into a "Super Bowl" team.

So what am I saying? I'm saying I think Drew Brees is the real thing - he'll play well from now on, he's not a flash in the pan. Even so though, this game isn't won and lost only by the QB. If that were the case, the Colts would have beat up the Pats yesterday. If AJ thinks that trading Brees is the best thing to do now, I trust his judgment. If he feels the Philip simply isn't ready or worse, then he'll sign Drew and go that way. I'll trust in that too. My own judgment is that Drew Brees will be a good QB in this league for a long time to come and Philip Rivers will be even better in the long run.

Thunderstruck
01-17-2005, 09:14 AM
I still think that as much as our o-line appeared to get pushed around by the Jets, we still would have beaten them with better special teams play.

Regarding LT's inability to dominate this year, I really believe that it had more to do with LT than it did with the o-line. Because of the groin injury, he just didn't have the ability to turn the corner on sweeps and tosses. He was getting the bulk of his yards off-tackle, and that's not his strength. He does okay, but it's definitely not what makes him dangerous. Defenses did not fear LT running to the outside, and so they jammed the middle, jumped the gaps with linebackers without worrying about the corners, and left microscopic running lanes that LT had to expend lots of effort to run through.

Defense is a positional game, and when you can't exploit the entire field and the defense knows it, they'll leave that part of the field open, and challenge you to hurt them there. And since LT never seemed to get back his burst, the Bolts were simply unable to do it.

I also think that's why Chapman often looked better than LT during his brief stints...because his strength is running off-tackle.

Chargeroo
01-17-2005, 10:14 AM
Thunderstruck
I think you're right to an extent. There certainly were several games during the year that LT was unable to hit the hole as he normally does. However, by the time of the Jets game, he was fine. The Jets D-line beat our O-line play after play. If we stay pat - same team next year as this year, I think we can expect a similar result - we'll be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win the Lombardi trophy.

Thunderstruck
01-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
Thunderstruck
I think you're right to an extent. There certainly were several games during the year that LT was unable to hit the hole as he normally does. However, by the time of the Jets game, he was fine. The Jets D-line beat our O-line play after play. If we stay pat - same team next year as this year, I think we can expect a similar result - we'll be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win the Lombardi trophy.


I disagree. I don't think LT ever got back to his regular form. I think the injury was no longer bothering him, but I also never saw the explosion that he customarily has after he's made the first man miss. Even in the Colts game, when he caught that short pass and went the distance, he looked like he had his speed but not the acceleration. Normally, he is at full speed in two steps. That's the explosion I'm talking about, and I never saw it after the Jacksonville game.

If you can find footage of the Jacksonville game, look at the catch-and-run he made (I believe it was in the second quarter) and ask yourself if you ever saw that kind of burst from him again for the rest of the year. It's that rare acceleration-with-power--an explosion--that has made LT so dangerous. After the Jacksonville game, he looked like just another scat-back. Oddly, that was the game after he first injured his groin against the Titans, but I remember reading that he reaggravated the injury against the Jags.

Also, LT has always had five or six runs per game where he gets stopped in the backfield. He has to have momentum to break tackles. He also is pretty easy to leg-tackle, from what I've seen.

LT is a terrific back...don't get me wrong...but he wasn't the same this year. He was slightly above ordinary, and he never regained his old form.

JoeMcRugby
01-17-2005, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by: Thunderstruck

Originally posted by: Chargeroo
Thunderstruck
I think you're right to an extent. There certainly were several games during the year that LT was unable to hit the hole as he normally does. However, by the time of the Jets game, he was fine. The Jets D-line beat our O-line play after play. If we stay pat - same team next year as this year, I think we can expect a similar result - we'll be good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win the Lombardi trophy.

I disagree. I don't think LT ever got back to his regular form. I think the injury was no longer bothering him, but I also never saw the explosion that he customarily has after he's made the first man miss. Even in the Colts game, when he caught that short pass and went the distance, he looked like he had his speed but not the acceleration. Normally, he is at full speed in two steps. That's the explosion I'm talking about, and I never saw it after the Jacksonville game.

If you can find footage of the Jacksonville game, look at the catch-and-run he made (I believe it was in the second quarter) and ask yourself if you ever saw that kind of burst from him again for the rest of the year. It's that rare acceleration-with-power--an explosion--that has made LT so dangerous. After the Jacksonville game, he looked like just another scat-back. Oddly, that was the game after he first injured his groin against the Titans, but I remember reading that he reaggravated the injury against the Jags.

Also, LT has always had five or six runs per game where he gets stopped in the backfield. He has to have momentum to break tackles. He also is pretty easy to leg-tackle, from what I've seen.

LT is a terrific back...don't get me wrong...but he wasn't the same this year. He was slightly above ordinary, and he never regained his old form.

If you look at the Jets game, on a dozen occasions (minimum), the Jets d-line blasted through and LT (at 70%, 100% or 110%) didn't/wouldn't have a prayer of getting to the line.

Improvements need to continue with the o-line. Hardwick needs to build up his strength in the offseason and another OT needs to be obtained on the first day of the draft. Depth needs to be shored up because it's highly unlikely that the Chargers will have as healthy a season as they did in 2004. And the biggest piece to the o-line puzzle: bringing back Hud.

D-line help (as has been discussed in other threads) also needs to come.

And I'm in line with Chargeroo regarding the QB situation: AJ needs to trust his own evaluative skills to go in whatever direction the Chargers decide. The bottom line is that whatever direction they move, they use the picks/personnel that they receive to build a Pats-like roster without any glaring deficiencies.

As others have put it: In AJ we trust!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Go Chargers!!!! i/expressions/beer.gif

Thunderstruck
01-17-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

If you look at the Jets game, on a dozen occasions (minimum), the Jets d-line blasted through and LT (at 70%, 100% or 110%) didn't/wouldn't have a prayer of getting to the line.

Go Chargers!!!!


Yes, I understand that...and I have never said the offensive line can't or won't improve. My point is that in the last ten games of the season, LT was zero-threat to turn the corner and take the ball outside. Zero. Take the sweeps and the swing-passes and the pitch-outs out of the playbook...those are dangerous plays for him when he's healthy, but yielded nothing for us after the groin injury. And it was directly due to his lack of burst. If you're a defensive coordinator, and you know that the runningback you're playing against is limited, you play to his limitations. It's easy for a defense to take away any part of the field they want. Ordinarily, however, they can't overcommit like that, because they know they'll get burned elsewhere.

But with LT hampered, DC's knew that if LT took it outside, their linebackers and safeties could contain him even if they overcommitted to take away the middle. So that's what they did--they overcommitted to take away the middle. And the Chargers had no answer, because when they ran LT outside, he wasn't able to beat the first tackler--which is what he ordinarily does. It's what running backs have to be able to do to run outside.

The Bolts had very very few big running plays after LT got injured--other than from Chapman.

Yes, the offensive line can improve, but I tend to think they will improve with experience, rather than having to make changes. And I also think that LT can improve, and he will--once he's 100% again.

JoeMcRugby
01-17-2005, 02:10 PM
I agree with your assessment. The only way that the groin injury fully heals is with a full month's rest - and that was a luxury that the 2004 Chargers couldn't afford to do.

In 2005, LT will be healthy and the o-line should improve - provided that Deano retains Hud.

HeadTrip
01-17-2005, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by: Chargeroo
I don't have a crystal ball but I do have pretty good perception and a lot of years of playing and watching this game. The game at the NFL level is extremely tough. These guys beat hell out of one another week after week. That's why the men in the trenches are so important. In the NE - Indy game the team that had the ability to open holes for the running game and give their passer time in the pocket won the game. Brady and his WR's are not as good as Peyton and his WR's ---- it's the O-line that wins it for the Pats. Now transfer that over to our Chargers - our O-line doesn't dominate like the Pats line does. We have a great RB but can't sustain drives because he gets hit behind the LOS too darn often. So now what happens if we keep Brees and he's every bit as good as he was this year? (my perception says he is) I think we have another good season, maybe get in the playoffs, and some team with a stronger O-line plays keep away and we lose in the playoffs again. We need to continue to improve our O-line. What we have now is a good pass blocking line but a line that's only fair at run blocking. Trading Drew Brees gives us more players or draft picks as well as more money to sign some better O-line players, as well as the WR, DE, LB, and Safety we need to turn this team into the Super Bowl team that we all want.

The risk, of course, is that Philip isn't ready for the NFL or worse yet, that he never becomes a good QB. However, shouldn't our front office trust their own eyes, trust their own judgment? I think they should and if, in their judgment, Philip Rivers is good to go, they should bite the bullet now. That would be the best way to turn this "playoff team" into a "Super Bowl" team.

So what am I saying? I'm saying I think Drew Brees is the real thing - he'll play well from now on, he's not a flash in the pan. Even so though, this game isn't won and lost only by the QB. If that were the case, the Colts would have beat up the Pats yesterday. If AJ thinks that trading Brees is the best thing to do now, I trust his judgment. If he feels the Philip simply isn't ready or worse, then he'll sign Drew and go that way. I'll trust in that too. My own judgment is that Drew Brees will be a good QB in this league for a long time to come and Philip Rivers will be even better in the long run.


Absolutely nails in this post! Everyone read this!

Thunderstruck
01-17-2005, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby
I agree with your assessment. The only way that the groin injury fully heals is with a full month's rest - and that was a luxury that the 2004 Chargers couldn't afford to do.

In 2005, LT will be healthy and the o-line should improve - provided that Deano retains Hud.

Ditto on the retaining Hud part. If they let Hud go, they better pray there's an Art Shell or Hudson Hauck clone somewhere to bring in. They need to pay market-value for their coaches.

I hope AJ is telling Dean that we can't put ourselves in a position where our assitant coaches have success and then get stolen to do the exact same job for more money by other teams. When that starts happening, you can be certain the organization will never have stability. If a Hudson went to another team as a head coach, I could deal with it. But if he goes to another team to do the exact same job only for more money, then I'm going to start to wonder.

foley5
01-18-2005, 07:22 PM
franchise him, sign him, sign him and trade him. Just make sure we get something for him. Drew is a talent, let Rivers sit on the bench and take notes for a while or sign brees and let them compete. Either way we should be in good shape if brees is our starter or if Phillip can step up.

foley5
01-18-2005, 07:26 PM
Brees knows he had a career year. He will make concessions to come back and play with his boy LT..........I hope.