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Boltfreek
01-11-2005, 04:33 PM
Lets say that Rivers or Brees go to another team as a result of some sort of trade?
How does that affect our salary cap?

smrtalec33
01-11-2005, 06:54 PM
Anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but the way i understand it is this. If Rivers is traded, the remainder of his signing bonus (i believe $10-12 mill) will count against the cap next season. It's a 1-time only cap hit, but it's huge, and would really limit the Chargers in signing free agents and draft picks. If Brees is given the franchise tag, that comes with no signing bonus, so if he's traded, it wouldn't cost the Chargers anything. If he's signed to a long-term deal and then traded (which wouldn't happen), the Chargers would again have his entire signing bonus applied against next year's cap. So, the short version is that if they franchise Brees and trade him for the Cowboys' #1 pick, they'd still be 21 mill under the cap, and have 3 #1's. If they traded Rivers, that would eat up more than half of next year's available cap money. Then, a sizeable portion of what's left would be given to Brees. Of course, Rivers' 2005 salary (not including signing bonus) would no longer count against the Chargers' cap, so if they traded Rivers they'd probably end up with somewhere around $10 million under the cap instead of $21 million by trading Brees.


Brees also probably has significantly more trade value than Rivers right now, and in my mind, you can't afford to pay both of them, but that's a whole different topic altogether.

drangus
01-11-2005, 07:38 PM
what you are saying is a little misleading because if the chargers chose to commit to brees they could sign him long term which wouldn't soak up the ten mil that franchising would also if phillip were trade before his bonus were due the hit would be about five mil for next years cap and the other team would eat the rest of the bonus (6 mil) on their cap--depending on the size of brees bonus in this senario would still leave a good ten million to play with plus the cap is going to expand and estimated 4 mil this year.

smrtalec33
01-11-2005, 09:40 PM
The $10 million i was talking about was for Rivers, not for Brees. If they franchised him, he'd get $9-10 million or whatever, but no signing bonus, so there would be no hit if he were traded. I understand that if they kept Brees and signed him long term, his cap number would probably be somewhere around $5 million for next year, but in my mind that's just a short term fix. At some point, the 2 QB's (if Brees were re-signed to a long term deal) would be too much to afford without it severely costing the team at another position. Obviously it's possible that they might decide to sign Brees long-term and trade Rivers and take the hit (whether it be $5 million or $10 million, it's significant either way), but i don't see the logic in that. Unless the front office, who obviously loved Rivers or they wouldn't have taken him, for some reason doubts his future, i think you have to just count your blessings that Brees played so well this year. and trade him while he has such high value.

But that's just my opinion of course.

stardrop
01-12-2005, 06:38 AM
On the salary cap.. It was my understanding that you take the bonus hit based on the year??? So Rivers has 10 Million left but it could be over 5 years etc. Would not be fun to take a 2 Million hit every year for some guy that was traded but it beats a one time 10 million hit....

Boltfreek
01-12-2005, 03:54 PM
Thank-you everyone. I don't think that we're going to see
Drew Brees playing for SD enxt year.

beaumac
01-12-2005, 05:53 PM
i think its got to be impossible to keep brees. #1 because he has to be resigned to a big $$ deal and #2 because rivers is untradeable due to his contract.

JoeMcRugby
01-12-2005, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by: stardrop
On the salary cap.. It was my understanding that you take the bonus hit based on the year??? So Rivers has 10 Million left but it could be over 5 years etc. Would not be fun to take a 2 Million hit every year for some guy that was traded but it beats a one time 10 million hit....

It's only spread out over the length of the contract as long as the player is on the team that gave him the bonus.

The instant the player is no longer on the squad, the balance of the signing bonus that had not yet been applied to prior year's of the contract is applied immediately to that year's cap.

So, in your example ($10 million of the bonus remaining with five years left on the contract), so long as Rivers remains with the Chargers, the bonus would count $2 million per season. Of course, the annual salary would be on top of that, but at this point it's chump change - Rivers's salary is less than $1 million per year.

If Rivers is traded this offseason, then the $10 million goes against the cap.

Taking your number examples and making the assumption that Rivers is traded in the 2006 offseason, then Rivers' bonus would count $8 million against the 2006 cap.

And so on.

RaiderHaterNyourMouth
01-13-2005, 12:26 AM
Trade Rivers, Keep Brees he's the furture...
So what about the cap, where do we need to really spend money?

smrtalec33
01-13-2005, 05:50 AM
This is from the Union-Tribune, from an article last month...
... the organization would take a salary-cap hit of nearly $6.5 million in 2005 if it traded Rivers before March 10. The hit climbs above $10 million if a deal is made next year after the 10th.


I still don't think they'll trade Rivers, but $6.5 is less of a hit than i thought it was, so that just makes it all the more intriguing.

lca9900
01-13-2005, 03:33 PM
Beside the salary cap, the Spanos may get invovled. Alex already stated that he is tired of paying money to someone who is not on our roster. He took a hit when they got rid of Leaf. I do not think he wants to pay Rivers and then trade him.

Thunderstruck
01-13-2005, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

Originally posted by: stardrop
On the salary cap.. It was my understanding that you take the bonus hit based on the year??? So Rivers has 10 Million left but it could be over 5 years etc. Would not be fun to take a 2 Million hit every year for some guy that was traded but it beats a one time 10 million hit....

It's only spread out over the length of the contract as long as the player is on the team that gave him the bonus.

The instant the player is no longer on the squad, the balance of the signing bonus that had not yet been applied to prior year's of the contract is applied immediately to that year's cap.

So, in your example ($10 million of the bonus remaining with five years left on the contract), so long as Rivers remains with the Chargers, the bonus would count $2 million per season. Of course, the annual salary would be on top of that, but at this point it's chump change - Rivers's salary is less than $1 million per year.

If Rivers is traded this offseason, then the $10 million goes against the cap.

Taking your number examples and making the assumption that Rivers is traded in the 2006 offseason, then Rivers' bonus would count $8 million against the 2006 cap.

And so on.


Jim Trotter has made multiple references that the cap hit for trading PR before March would be under $6 million, due to the fact that $6.6 million of PR's signing bonus was deferred until March of this year. If the Chargers traded PR before then, the team that obtains him would be responsible for picking up the $6.6. million and the Chargers would take a cap hit on the balance of the original amount paid.

It sounds like Rivers got his signing bonus in two parts: approximately $8 million up-front, and the rest deferred until this next season. And, in respect to the salary cap, a team is only on-the-hook for the amount that has actually been paid, not money due to be paid in a conditional manner (i.e. be on the roster March 1st) if that conditional money is accepted by another team with that player's contract when he is traded.

I seriously doubt Jim Trotter would have reported this is if it wasn't true, and it does make sense. Ryan Leaf got his signing bonus in multiple parts when he was here. LT's signing bonus is being paid in multiple pieces. I don't think "you must be on the roster" conditions disqualify it from being considered "guaranteed" money, because that's not a performance condition. Until it's actually paid to the player, it does not accelerate if the player is moved.

JkX2988
01-13-2005, 06:06 PM
I think that we could actually keep both Qb's and get rid of Flutie. Even if we decide to trade Rivers, we could always trade our #1 picks down a bit and stock of for the future and then since we get more picks but in the later round we wouldn't have to pay them that much. I think 10 million would cover all the picks if we were to trade down.

JoeMcRugby
01-13-2005, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by: Thunderstruck

Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby

Originally posted by: stardrop
On the salary cap.. It was my understanding that you take the bonus hit based on the year??? So Rivers has 10 Million left but it could be over 5 years etc. Would not be fun to take a 2 Million hit every year for some guy that was traded but it beats a one time 10 million hit....

It's only spread out over the length of the contract as long as the player is on the team that gave him the bonus.

The instant the player is no longer on the squad, the balance of the signing bonus that had not yet been applied to prior year's of the contract is applied immediately to that year's cap.

So, in your example ($10 million of the bonus remaining with five years left on the contract), so long as Rivers remains with the Chargers, the bonus would count $2 million per season. Of course, the annual salary would be on top of that, but at this point it's chump change - Rivers's salary is less than $1 million per year.

If Rivers is traded this offseason, then the $10 million goes against the cap.

Taking your number examples and making the assumption that Rivers is traded in the 2006 offseason, then Rivers' bonus would count $8 million against the 2006 cap.

And so on.

Jim Trotter has made multiple references that the cap hit for trading PR before March would be under $6 million, due to the fact that $6.6 million of PR's signing bonus was deferred until March of this year. If the Chargers traded PR before then, the team that obtains him would be responsible for picking up the $6.6. million and the Chargers would take a cap hit on the balance of the original amount paid.

It sounds like Rivers got his signing bonus in two parts: approximately $8 million up-front, and the rest deferred until this next season. And, in respect to the salary cap, a team is only on-the-hook for the amount that has actually been paid, not money due to be paid in a conditional manner (i.e. be on the roster March 1st) if that conditional money is accepted by another team with that player's contract when he is traded.

I seriously doubt Jim Trotter would have reported this is if it wasn't true, and it does make sense. Ryan Leaf got his signing bonus in multiple parts when he was here. LT's signing bonus is being paid in multiple pieces. I don't think "you must be on the roster" conditions disqualify it from being considered "guaranteed" money, because that's not a performance condition. Until it's actually paid to the player, it does not accelerate if the player is moved.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear: I was using Stardrop's example in monetary terms.

If Trotter's story is correct (and there have been rumors about it for the last couple of months), what it would mean is that the Chargers would take a $6 million hit if Rivers is traded before March 11 (? I believe that's roughly the date).

Having said that, AJ has said that he's not trading Rivers. And since other teams know about the bonus in March, they'll use that date to lowball AJ in negotiations. "Well, AJ, you know that March 11 date is ticking down. This is the best offer you're gonna get. Take it or leave it."

I don't see it happening. As far as Rivers' future with the Chargers, I don't see them getting rid of Rivers before they've had the opportunity to evaluate him when he competes with Brees through a full offseason program, including mini-camps, training camp and a full exhibition season followed by a full regular season after having those building blocks in place.

If in 2005 Brees plays like he did in 2004 and Rivers doesn't live up to the very high expectations that Marty and AJ have for him, then the Chargers take a $10 million hit in 2006 instead of a $6 million hit in 2005. But at least the Chargers will have the benefit of

isaic16
01-13-2005, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by: RaiderHaterNyourMouth
Trade Rivers, Keep Brees he's the furture...
So what about the cap, where do we need to really spend money?


Where do we need to spend money?

1. Resigning Drew Brees. Even with a new contract, it'l be in the 3 mil range minimum, probably more.

2. Antonio Gates. We're talkng probably 3 mil again for that.

3. If we trade Rivers we will likely have 3 first rounders. Those aren't free. Just the first round picks in the draft will be worth 2 mil apiece.

So, what does that add up to? twelve million, before free agency and our lower round draft picks. That already puts us over the cap, and I'm making very lowball figures. I don't want to risk that kind of salary cap hell, even if for only one year, just to avoid a QB controversy

lca9900
01-14-2005, 09:14 PM
If I remember correctly, the contract only transfer to the new team. The Chargers are still liable for the signing bonus. And if I remember correctly, Spanos said he does not want to pay for a player that is no longer on the team. Therefore I think Rivers will eventually play and have to earn his money.

Shamrock
01-14-2005, 11:58 PM
These articles (http://www.jaguars.com/News/FeatureSeries.asp) on the salary cap might help some of y'all get a better feel for the process.

Also, the series on the defense is quite informative.