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View Full Version : Improved likelyhood of getting a WR at 12?


HeadTrip
02-23-2005, 09:29 PM
With the raiders resigning Porter and getting Moss, there is one team that wont be drafting a WR that may have been projected to, and the Vikes certianly are not going to draft one. This leaves us with just a few teams that have WR needs, including the Bears, maybe Titans, maybe redskins. The chance of us getting a top WR is growing in my view, what do you guys think?

SuperBowlBolts
02-23-2005, 09:30 PM
well since theres less teams not going for WR of course our chances are gonna be better

IgorUnchained
02-23-2005, 09:45 PM
Why wouldnt you assume that the Vikings will be drafting a WR with the #7 overall that they get from the Raiders? Randy Moss will leave a big hole in that receiving corps when he leaves, and Culpepper has an arm that warrants an elite deep threat WR for next season.

HeadTrip
02-23-2005, 09:56 PM
The Vikes D is terrible and should be their area of concern, and the Vikes have a decent WR core even without moss. Burlson is a very good receiver, and robinson and cambell are both adequate as well. If they are smart they will try to bolster that D.

smlman2
02-23-2005, 09:59 PM
the bears are very highly in need and tennessee is very found of williams with chow at coordinator. so i dont think our chances have gone up at all.

IgorUnchained
02-23-2005, 10:06 PM
I knew that Burleson was coming along nicely, and Robinson was a decent #3, but that still doesnt give them the options that you want when you have Culpeppers arm. The Vikes running game wasnt good in any game I saw last year, and that is when the D had to worry about Randy going deep everyplay.

SDynasty
02-23-2005, 10:29 PM
We will be in good shape no matter what, because AJ is a solid GM. We will get what and who we need some how some way.

HeadTrip
02-23-2005, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by: 214SD6
We will be in good shape no matter what, because AJ is a solid GM. We will get what and who we need some how some way.

I completly agree!

Just to be clear, I dont neccessarily think it is a good idea, but it would be hard to pass on either BMW or Edwards at 12.

SDynasty
02-23-2005, 10:47 PM
I am not the teams GM of course and some of you are very happy about that. I would be more inclined to take players from the FA market, 70% FA -30% draft pics.

Imo its like buying a new car, and one that your not sure is actually going to perform that way it was advertised. Let another team take the depreciation on an overpriced product. Let a few years pass for the bugs to get worked out, and then pick up the right model for the job. Sporty convertible, practicle midsize, or the big suv. Just dont overpay, in todays market that is the way to kill a franchise.

maverjoe
02-24-2005, 12:03 AM
i would bet anything that the bears go for rb over wr....unless they get a rb in free agency.

urlacher54
02-24-2005, 12:08 AM
The bears will ofcourse go for Mike Williams. They wont take their chances on another Michigan Reciever in BMW. The last time they went with David Terrel and he is overpaid and has not contributed less to anything at all. And I know the Vikes very well, the team will pick up a reciever for their first pick. They have Burleson, Cambel, Howry, and Robinson. While they found a number one guy in Burleson, he still does not have incredible speed in which moss had. The vikings will look for a deep threat reciever and will go for BMW if he is there

csfoster
02-24-2005, 01:33 AM
I will be truly shocked if we draft a wide receiver with the 12th pick regardless of who is available. It may well be true that with the Vikes trading of Moss to the Raiders there are fewer teams ahead of us looking for a wide receiver. However, the converse of that is that given this trade, the Chargers now have an even greater need for a dominating defensive line pass rusher or at the very least a cover corner. The only real way of stopping Moss (who we will now play twice) is getting to the quarterback.

eeks2284
02-24-2005, 03:36 AM
mike williams and braylon edwards are top 10 picks.. it'll take a miracle for them to drop to us at 12 (williams pulling hammy and running a 4.6 40 or sumthin).. sorry guys

wilrab
02-24-2005, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by: csfoster
I will be truly shocked if we draft a wide receiver with the 12th pick regardless of who is available. It may well be true that with the Vikes trading of Moss to the Raiders there are fewer teams ahead of us looking for a wide receiver. However, the converse of that is that given this trade, the Chargers now have an even greater need for a dominating defensive line pass rusher or at the very least a cover corner. The only real way of stopping Moss (who we will now play twice) is getting to the quarterback.

I agree, DE in my opinion is our first and foremost need with FS a close second. Whether we address this through the draft or FA is really the question. I would lean more towards DE through draft and FS through FA but it all depends on who is available.

Boltneck
02-24-2005, 08:58 AM
The bad news for us now is that the Vikings will (I gureantee it) Be all over Mike Williams and we sill no longer have *any* shot at all at that guy. Who imo is still head and shoulders, hands down, be far, the Best WR int he Draft. Size, Speed, Hands, Athletics, Competetiveness.

No one else is even close in my book.

maverjoe
02-24-2005, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by: wilrab

Originally posted by: csfoster

I will be truly shocked if we draft a wide receiver with the 12th pick regardless of who is available. It may well be true that with the Vikes trading of Moss to the Raiders there are fewer teams ahead of us looking for a wide receiver. However, the converse of that is that given this trade, the Chargers now have an even greater need for a dominating defensive line pass rusher or at the very least a cover corner. The only real way of stopping Moss (who we will now play twice) is getting to the quarterback.



I agree, DE in my opinion is our first and foremost need with FS a close second. Whether we address this through the draft or FA is really the question. I would lean more towards DE through draft and FS through FA but it all depends on who is available.


I agree with this...free safeties are traditionally cheaper in free agency. I think their are some steller D-linemen in this years draft eho could fit a 3-4 scheme.

bigruday
02-24-2005, 09:05 AM
Espn Was reporting this morning that the Vikings will most likely draft either Edwards or Williams if available. The only way of this not happening is if they pick up a WR free agent. I don't expect any of those two WR's to be there at our pick at 12. So lets draft a Defense player either an end or a LB.

boonac1
02-24-2005, 09:49 AM
Williams or Edwards won't be available at #12. Our best case scenario would be to draft Derrick Johnson, who most scouts say is the most dominant defensive player in the draft. Then maybe draft a receiver in the late first round, or go after one in free agency. There are too many teams who will go after a receiver, ie. Browns, Bears, Vikings, that are ahead of us.

ChargerChuckster
02-24-2005, 10:20 AM
If Edwards, Williams, or Williamson aren't there @ #12, then... I'd pick up an DE or OLB (Merriman) because this draft is very deep with WRs. We can find a quality WR in the second round (#61).

minion
02-24-2005, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by: csfoster
I will be truly shocked if we draft a wide receiver with the 12th pick regardless of who is available. It may well be true that with the Vikes trading of Moss to the Raiders there are fewer teams ahead of us looking for a wide receiver. However, the converse of that is that given this trade, the Chargers now have an even greater need for a dominating defensive line pass rusher or at the very least a cover corner. The only real way of stopping Moss (who we will now play twice) is getting to the quarterback.

Amazing point we all forget that not only was this trade amazing for the raiders but it completly hurts two games we have to play. Drafting a Big DE should be our #1 concern we gotta put preassure on that QB.

bigruday
02-24-2005, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by: boonac1
Williams or Edwards won't be available at #12. Our best case scenario would be to draft Derrick Johnson, who most scouts say is the most dominant defensive player in the draft. Then maybe draft a receiver in the late first round, or go after one in free agency. There are too many teams who will go after a receiver, ie. Browns, Bears, Vikings, that are ahead of us.


I don't believe Williams or Edwards will be there at 12 either. I agree with boonac1 I would like to get derrick Johnson at 12. Everyone says this guys is a stud and I think he could fall to 12. If those WR's are gone at 12 we should draft defense!!! I think with a FA safety like a dwight smith our defense could improve next year.

My question is Should we look at Free agency for A WR??

masterjunge
02-24-2005, 10:29 AM
You guys are nuts we don't need a WR, we need a pass rush.

getfresh
02-24-2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by: HeadTrip
With the raiders resigning Porter and getting Moss, there is one team that wont be drafting a WR that may have been projected to, and the Vikes certianly are not going to draft one. This leaves us with just a few teams that have WR needs, including the Bears, maybe Titans, maybe redskins. The chance of us getting a top WR is growing in my view, what do you guys think?



I think for the PR move the Vikings will draft a WR at #7, unless BMW and Edwards are gone. It will give the fans a new guy to get excited about and reduce the sting of losing Moss. Then they can forever debate the trade, BMW goes on to a great career, did they get the better end of the deal or did the Raiders. Just like LT/Vick, etc.

sdbolt23
02-24-2005, 12:05 PM
troy williamson at 12 if hes not there then take erasmus james. at 28 take either tuck if we already get williamson.if we get james at 12 then take either roddy white or chris henry at 28. so wrs next year are osgood, williamson, parker ,caldwell,mccardell and keenan will probably be gone after next year so it will be pretty deep.

boltzman3
02-24-2005, 01:31 PM
we do not need to draft a wide reciever this year. we have young talent in our receiving corp.......there is always a talented wide out available in very draft. lets stick to our guns and go deffense and then offense.

TemeculaMike
02-24-2005, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by: HeadTrip
... This leaves us with just a few teams that have WR needs, including the Bears, maybe Titans, maybe redskins. The chance of us getting a top WR is growing in my view, what do you guys think?

My reaction is the same as CSFoster, MasterJunge, and Boltzman3. The Chargers "top" priority IS NOT at wide receiver. Our wide receivers are young and improving every game. We actually have a very good wide receiver core compared to most teams. Just becuase there are no over paid underacheiving malcontents in our receiving core (anymore like 2003) does not mean the Chargers/AJ should seek to blow the bank on an unproven rookie in the 1st round.

We may pick up a prospect in the later rounds, but not the 1st round. Thus, I say our chances of getting a wide receiver remain virtually the same: 3-7% (extremely low). I will hedge my bet because AJ has often said he will take the best player on the board, which means there is a chance the Chargers draft a wide receiver in the 1st round if the player is a steal (i.e. Williams with our 2nd pick).

Our primary need is an Igor type defensive end that will put pressure on the QB. Rookies are good canditates for this position because it requires physical skills/size and not necessarily experience (unlike a safety).

kingporterblood
02-24-2005, 02:11 PM
Because there is a bigger hole on their defense and if they wont address that they will be losers as always

frankrollingrivers
02-24-2005, 09:04 PM
WE need to get veteren defensive help we cant go with all young guys

HeadTrip
02-24-2005, 11:50 PM
Like I said before, I dont neccessarily think getting a WR at 12 is a good idea, unless BMW or Edwards is there and there is no Johnson. I know what our biggest needs are, believe me i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif. Sadly, nothing is black and white... lets say Edwards is still there, Johnson, spears and cody are all gone and it is all turn. If AJ thinks Edwards will help more than the next best defensive player then we have to go with the WR, regardless of position.

Everyone know what im getting at? Im sure I lost half of you in my innane ramblings hehe.

RMANCIL
02-25-2005, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by: TemeculaMike

Originally posted by: HeadTrip

... This leaves us with just a few teams that have WR needs, including the Bears, maybe Titans, maybe redskins. The chance of us getting a top WR is growing in my view, what do you guys think?



My reaction is the same as CSFoster, MasterJunge, and Boltzman3. The Chargers "top" priority IS NOT at wide receiver. Our wide receivers are young and improving every game. We actually have a very good wide receiver core compared to most teams. Just becuase there are no over paid underacheiving malcontents in our receiving core (anymore like 2003) does not mean the Chargers/AJ should seek to blow the bank on an unproven rookie in the 1st round.



We may pick up a prospect in the later rounds, but not the 1st round. Thus, I say our chances of getting a wide receiver remain virtually the same: 3-7% (extremely low). I will hedge my bet because AJ has often said he will take the best player on the board, which means there is a chance the Chargers draft a wide receiver in the 1st round if the player is a steal (i.e. Williams with our 2nd pick).



Our primary need is an Igor type defensive end that will put pressure on the QB. Rookies are good canditates for this position because it requires physical skills/size and not necessarily experience (unlike a safety).

I hope A.J. drafts the B.A. at 12 and does not draft a player to simply fill a need . None of the DE who can line up in a 3-4 project to be ALL- Pro type players but rather average instead. In fact the Bolts may have a shot at 28 to grab a player of similar talent as they would take at 12 on the DL.

Edwards and Williams are blue chip talent , they have a chance to be Pro - Bowl talent I think Derrick Johnson and Dan Cody also fall into that select group. In the long run passing on Blue chip talent for red chip will hurt a team big time.

The clubs cap gets out of wac ,imagine paying Igor top 12# money and getting 33# production.

The Bolts do have a hole at wr ,Smith saw this last season and traded to get McCardell to fix it. McCardell is in the last season of his contract he is a older player 35 , who wants big money . He also suffered a pulled hamstring and missed several games in which the Bolt offense and in particular Gates were slowed down by double coverage.

Parker a F.A. out of Tenn has been injured every season and missed time, in fact he was hurt in college and missed time and as a result he was not drafted. Osgood caught 15 passes last year and is still a developmental player after being signed as a undrafted player in 2003 when he caught 13 balls.

Caldwell suffered a career threating injury last season and reports are that he can not cut on his leg at this time. Caldwell had been a major disappointment with the club looking to cut him or not resign him before he stepped up his play last season before his injury. He to has been injured every season and missed a great deal of time.

Fact is if the N.F.L. held a draft of WR a Charger would not be drafted in the top 32.

I do agree we need a DE ,but I don't agree that we are set at WR. In fact far from it.

Gadzooks
02-25-2005, 05:03 AM
I say take the best available unless it's a QB or RB. If that's the case I would entertain a trade down.

innersoulevents
02-25-2005, 03:52 PM
no possibility these two WR (MW,BE) will fall to 12....NONE

RMANCIL
02-25-2005, 06:53 PM
Buddy you post that over and over but you or I can't say for a fact what will happen. The Bears could draft a RB OR a OL you don't know for a fact. The Vikes could take a DB. One of those WR might drop you just at this point can't say for sure.

maverjoe
02-26-2005, 09:07 AM
I am sure the Bears will draft a rb...and now that they signed Mushin I am even more sure of it.

RMANCIL
02-26-2005, 09:16 AM
The Bears look to get a RB and OL help and at this point in the draft (1) RB looks to be the value.
Like I said never count up the chickens before the F.A. signings you will get fooled every time.

Boy I hit that Bears pich a long way didn't I? Sweet!!!

broncossuck7
02-26-2005, 09:37 AM
THE BEARS WILL SIGN MUSHIN MUHAMMED!!! go to GD section

HeadTrip
02-26-2005, 11:27 AM
Yup, the bears got Muhammad, so they will prolly get a RB or Olineman with there pick.

foley5
02-26-2005, 01:41 PM
Running back.....no way they have two qualkity RB's in A-train and thomas Jones.....the will go Braylon Edwards if he has a decent 40 time.

sundeval
02-26-2005, 03:29 PM
Quality WR?....dont we have those already? What we need is a gamebreaking wr , something that sorely stood out in the loss to the Jets. Imagine what LT would do if we had someone who could stretch the field to go along with Gates.

chrisx448
02-26-2005, 07:56 PM
there is no sense in getting another WR who only has potential to be a #2 reciever. The only way we will get one is if Mike Williams or Braylon Edwards fall to us and by the looks of recent events that might just happen. I dont think the bears will go WR with them just signing Muhammad, The vikings played better w/o Randy Moss this year than they played with him, plus neither of the top 2 WRs fit their prototype, they love FAST wr's, if they get one it will be with their 1b pick. The titans have bigger needs at OL and CB and they will have Drew Bennet and Tyrone Calico (a lot of talent, yet to prove himself). The Redskins are the only team i really see taking a WR.

broncossuck7
02-26-2005, 08:34 PM
Draft a Big gamebreaker. Hopefully edwards or williams is there. Imaging opposing teams having to double gates and BE or MW and still having to worry about L.T and Brees! Jeez, we would be some heck of a machine

innersoulevents
02-26-2005, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by: RMANCIL
Buddy you post that over and over but you or I can't say for a fact what will happen. The Bears could draft a RB OR a OL you don't know for a fact. The Vikes could take a DB. One of those WR might drop you just at this point can't say for sure.

what do you want to put on that??

Ill give you 3/1 odds if you think either of those receivers will be there.
take it to the bank!!! they will NOT be there. I will be here after draft day so you can say I was right.

JoeMcRugby
02-26-2005, 10:11 PM
3/1 odds isn't exactly guaranteeing that neither will be there when the Chargers pick at 12. That's saying that there's a 25% chance that one of them will be there.

I'd say 20/1 means you are positive that they won't be there. And even before Williams runs, I'd be willing to take 20/1 on it.

innersoulevents
02-26-2005, 11:17 PM
first of all, I am a huge sports gambler

I would NEVER take a 20/1 odds bet. In fact, you are pretty much stupid if you ever bet the favorite in anything close to those odds. I think it is even stupid if a team is favored by -7 and some idiots will bet like $250 to win $100 with no spread, just staight up.

I think 3/1 is just fair odds in this situation. There are two players. Chicago just picked up a WR.

Ill say it again, the stopwatch isnt gonna matter that much. Williams is gonna be drafted high.
Remember Terrel Suggs and his "slow 40 time"? Thats still in GMs minds. There was a debate started after that draft that the combines were a bit overated. I heard interviews with GMs saying they put alot more stock in players in how they played the game of football during college and not so much the combines. There have been so many players that have been great athletes but just plain suck at the game. Combines are still important though, dont get me wrong.

back to the topic...

1.Dont rule out the possibility of a team trading up into the top ten to grab one of these guys. These two guys are highly coveted wide receivers. Teams in need of wide receivers might want to move up while some teams in the top ten might consider trading down cosidering the weak draft.

2. Dont rule out sleeper teams that might just suprise everyone and take one of these guys. GMS throw out smokescreens all the time.
Miami - cut David Boston, could use another wideout
Tennesee - Mason gone
Dallas - need a playmaker WR
Washington - LOCK to draft one of these guys
Chicago - dont count them out yet
Tampa - could use another WR oppisote Clayton, already have pretty good RB in Pittman
Minnisota - huge possibilty

3. look at every mock draft. there is a player that just doesnt fit in the top ten in almost every one.

Joe, remember you were one of those who thought Williams will be there at #12, well see
Im taking bets


i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

JoeMcRugby
02-26-2005, 11:29 PM
I don't think there's an iceball's chance in hell that Edwards is around at 12. It's all about Williams IMO.

I said Williams MIGHT be there at 12, and he still might be if he can't run at least a 4.5 forty. I'm not saying it's the right move for teams to pass up on him because he runs the forty a tenth of a second too slow, that's just the way the NFL operates unfortunately.

All I'm trying to point out is that you said there's "no way" either guy will be there at 12. 3/1 is a far away from "no chance" is all that I'm saying.

I'll let you know on March 10th if I'll take your "bet" (if you're still willing to do it at that point). Maybe it'll just be something like 12 packs or the like.

i/expressions/beer.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

innersoulevents
02-26-2005, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby
I said Williams MIGHT be there at 12

quote from you, Joe McRugby on 1/17/05

"as it got near draft day in 2004 williams had dropped down to the mid teens pick due to his slow 40 time before the rug was pulled out from under him. I dont see how his draft status will improve after spending a year out of fooball. Just like I said all along, I believe Williams will be there at the 12 spot"

straight from the horses mouthi/expressions/beer.gifi/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

JoeMcRugby
02-27-2005, 12:09 AM
I don't deny that I was more vociferous five weeks ago regarding Williams' draft status being similar to last year where he would have been taken in the mid-teens.

After reading more on him in the last couple of weeks, it has been reported that he will get his 40 time at 4.5 or below. That's where I started being less certain that he'll be there at 12.

I'll put it on the line now: I'll take you up on a small wager at your 3/1 odds (and I won't even include Edwards in the bet) if Williams runs anywhere slower than a 4.50 forty on March 10. In other words, a 4.51, the bet would be on.

You game? i/expressions/beer.gif

innersoulevents
02-27-2005, 12:34 AM
well see.... its really not that seriousi/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
although I dont think the 40 time matters that much unless he runs some Clarrett like time.

Id actually rather just watch the draft in good fun and concentrate on the Chargers picks rather than who will take Williams...(not backing down, I am completely confident, but IMO pretty stupid to make petty bets over a message board...I know...I brought it up...but im just always thinking in a gamblers mind)

but I will say

I will be a HAPPY to be COMLETELY WRONG if Williams falls to #12 and he puts on the Bolts Uniform in 05.

(you know how I feel though, highly unlikely he gets that far)

I also think we dont need a WR that bad...but I also believe you take the best player available. He is one of the top three or four guys in this draft IMO..IF hes there, take him

JoeMcRugby
02-27-2005, 02:57 PM
I just heard that Williams ran a 4.61 and a high 4.5s in the 40 today.

I'm waiting for confirmation.

If so, all the better chance for him being available at 12.

i/expressions/beer.gif

mgpretzel
02-27-2005, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by: JoeMcRugby
I just heard that Williams ran a 4.61 and a high 4.5s in the 40 today.

I'm waiting for confirmation.

If so, all the better chance for him being available at 12.



He did He ran a 4.59 and a 4.61. That is bad. But remeber the 40 time can be missleading. Some players are faster than their 40 time shows. Plus There over-all skills are important. Some teams go a lot by 40 times, but not the Chargers. We showed that with Tunner. I sure Hope Williams 40 time drops him down to us. That would be splended. He or the guy who benched 225, 25 times I would take in a heart beat

phicart
03-01-2005, 02:31 AM
Answer to the basic question is "yes", we do have an improved chance of getting a top WR. How much we improved, though, is very subjective. With Williams hurting himself by opening his mouth about 40 times, he has lost ground on Edwards for the top WR ranking in most polls. Equally important, though, is he now has Williamson nipping at his heels. Jury's out 'til Pro Day. With a possible three WR's in the top 15 or lower, teams in front of us have a bit less trade leverage. Still, I see this going down to draft day with a last minute trade for picks ala Manning/Rivers in the mix.

RMANCIL
03-01-2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by: phicart
Answer to the basic question is "yes", we do have an improved chance of getting a top WR. How much we improved, though, is very subjective. With Williams hurting himself by opening his mouth about 40 times, he has lost ground on Edwards for the top WR ranking in most polls. Equally important, though, is he now has Williamson nipping at his heels. Jury's out 'til Pro Day. With a possible three WR's in the top 15 or lower, teams in front of us have a bit less trade leverage. Still, I see this going down to draft day with a last minute trade for picks ala Manning/Rivers in the mix.

Make no mistake some teams will have Willamson as the second wr now. Edwards is firmly in control of the top spot .

I prefer the known play of Williams over the new comer Willamson, now the focus is on what the Vikings and the Skins will do. Both have issues a wr with the two starters of the Skins wanting out and with the Moss trade and now WR Cambell who was being counted on this year to step up is in trouble with the law in Georgia the Vikes will have moore pressure to take a wr.

I just hope they snag a F.A. off the market at this point they are looking at both DB and WR.

JoeMcRugby
03-01-2005, 10:15 AM
For what it's worth, this from the "Whispers" feature in Pro Football Weekly:

A Vikings source told PFW at the Scouting Combine that the Vikings were “completely floored” by WR Mike Williams, of whom head coach Mike Tice is a huge fan. Williams drew the adoration of the Vikings’ coaching staff before his private workout in Tampa last year and has only improved his standing with the team in the year gone by. With the seventh overall pick, the source said, the Vikings would “fall over ourselves” to get Williams.

http://www.profootballweekly.c.../2005/whispers2001.htm (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/Whispers/2005/whispers2001.htm)

innersoulevents
03-01-2005, 11:28 AM
hes another reason to back up the reason why I think Williams will be gone at 12

this is from NFL analyst Charles Robertson
He has Redskins picking him

9. Mike Williams, WR, Southern California (6-4, 229)
There was some talk that teams were unhappy with his 40-yard dash times (4.59 to 4.62), but it sounds suspiciously like lies. Williams is looking more and more like the player teams in the top 10 pretend to blow off – when they actually love him. While scouts would still like to see him get down to the low 220s, they like the way he uses his body and think he could be the biggest playmaker in this draft. He upset a lot people when he said he wasn't going to work out, but regained some respect when he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to run.