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LTfan4life
08-13-2005, 02:06 PM
As many people know, the NCAA enforced a new rule (more like a law), that states "No college team, may use or represent any Native American culture, regardless of the cruelty of the nickname, at any level of college athletics, during post-season play." Is this reasonable? This is a pretty big issue, considering how many colleges and team's logo is based on Native Americans. There is talk of possibly every sport having this "law", and there's also talk of the Government actually making this a law. Most people either believe that there should be no Native American names used in sports, regardless of what part of the season you're in, while the other side believes that we are not making fun of Natives, but rather remembering and honoring them by naming our universities and professional teams after them.

So my question is, is it ok to do this? Are we dishonoring our Natives? Or are we honoring them by naming our beloved universities and professional teams after them?

Here's a few teams that would have to change their school/team name:

College Teams:

Florida State Seminoles
Illinois Fighting Illini
St Johns Red Storm
San Diego State Aztecs
University of Southern California Trojans
Iowa Hawkeyes
Central Michigan Chippewas
Utah Utes
Alcorn State Braves
Bradley Braves
Arkansas State Indians
Louisiana-Monroe Indians
North Dakota Fighting Soux

Pro Teams (not yet a rule, but surely a possibility)

Atlanta Braves
Cleveland Indians
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
Chicago Blackhawks

Here's an article for those who don't really know much about the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838557/

conair103
08-13-2005, 02:09 PM
i think it depends on how these racial groups feel about it, personally i dont think i would be offended, the names dont bring in any sort of negativity on the groups.

Gadzooks
08-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Redskins is a bit of a stretch

Shamrock
08-13-2005, 02:23 PM
USC Trojans refers to the city/state of Troy in Ancient Greece.

The Seminole tribe of Florida works with Florida State on representing the Tribe with a positive image of their history. Other States Seminole Tribes don't care for FSU's mascot imagery.

Personally, I think the whole thing is dumb. If a Tribe doesn't like it, then I believe they should force change on a State/local level. Otherwise, this is another example of Government and institutional bureaucracy overreaching its mandate.

punkitty
08-13-2005, 02:26 PM
Everyone needs to calm down with all this PC crap. Last time I checked the Right to Never be Offended is not in the Constitution. If I got mad every time I heard the word "b***h", I'd be mad all the time.

BTW, from what I understand, the Florida State Seminoles have official approval from the Seminole Nation to use the name.

punkitty
08-13-2005, 02:28 PM
Hmmm......
I guess the "B" word is considered a bad one around here :)

Guess you guys will have to call me something else :)

LTfan4life
08-13-2005, 02:32 PM
BTW, from what I understand, the Florida State Seminoles have official approval from the Seminole Nation to use the name.

They have the approval, but the NCAA doesn't like it. I hope they allow FSU to keep it. That's a major school...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

"Florida State University is stunned at the complete lack of appreciation for cultural diversity shown by the National Collegiate Athletic Association's executive committee. ... That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole Tribe of Florida as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," Wetherell said Friday in a statement.

punkitty
08-13-2005, 02:38 PM
Hi LTfan!

OT, but I like your sig & I agree- Warren Saap has really bad from-across-the-room breath!

GoMathews
08-13-2005, 02:42 PM
Florida State is taking the initiative to reverse this ban. The Florida Seminole Tribe themselves designs a lot of propaganda for FSU. I'll tell you one thing... if Florida State is in a non-BCS bowl game, there still will be 80,000 fans hollering out and doing to the tomahawk.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/football/ncaa/specials/preview/2005/08/09/bc.fl.floridast.seminol.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

WARHAWKS
08-13-2005, 02:44 PM
lucky, san diego state university aztecs dont have to change their logo and mascot.

GrbgCllctr
08-13-2005, 02:57 PM
Although I by no means am a "politically correct" type of guy, I can see how the "Redskins" name could be found offensive by American Indians. After all it was conceived as a slur, I believe.

I can not think of any other names that would be looked at likewise, by the average American. The PC Nazis, like so many other issues in this country, have taken this on with a vengence - as if they speak for every American Indian in the country!

Let polls of 'registered' American Indians make a determination if these teams names and mascots offend them as a whole. As is true when it comes to any poll, however, it only takes a SMALL percentage of any "offended" group to get their way in this country - eventually; so that in itself could be a futile effort. Most of the American Indians I have talked to over the years (and it has been many) have never had an issue with team names like the Braves and Chiefs.

Additionally, since the subject has been breached: I don't take to hyphenated or provocative race names either; such as Native Americans, Arab-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, German-Americans, etc. although the latter name would be most likely construed as non-PC, but I have heard it used. We are all either Black, White, Oriental, Hispanic, etc. - when it comes to our race - if there is really any reason to make note of it, outside of news releases needed to search for a suspect in a crime. Why can't we all just be "Americans", if we are not being searched out for criminal activity? I find it no different than all of us being "CHARGER FANS". No race needs to be implied with it, does it? We are all one in identity, without care of each others race! Let the barrage begin.......

Sincerely,

GrbgCllctr :-)

WARHAWKS
08-13-2005, 03:31 PM
Additionally, since the subject has been breached: I don't take to hyphenated or provocative race names either; such as Native Americans, Arab-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, German-Americans, etc. although the latter name would be most likely construed as non-PC, but I have heard it used. We are all either Black, White, Oriental, Hispanic, etc. - when it comes to our race - if there is really any reason to make note of it, outside of news releases needed to search for a suspect in a crime. Why can't we all just be "Americans", if we are not being searched out for criminal activity? I find it no different than all of us being "CHARGER FANS". No race needs to be implied with it, does it? We are all one in identity, without care of each others race! Let the barrage begin.......

Sincerely,

GrbgCllctr :-)


ya i agree

Lights_Out
08-13-2005, 03:38 PM
This bites!!!!

I was pushing the Chargers to change their names to the San Diego Sycuans.

Or the San Diego Baronas of Southern California.

Water Ox
08-13-2005, 03:40 PM
As many people know, the NCAA enforced a new rule (more like a law), that states "No college team, may use or represent any Native American culture, regardless of the cruelty of the nickname, at any level of college athletics, during post-season play." Is this reasonable? This is a pretty big issue, considering how many colleges and team's logo is based on Native Americans. There is talk of possibly every sport having this "law", and there's also talk of the Government actually making this a law. Most people either believe that there should be no Native American names used in sports, regardless of what part of the season you're in, while the other side believes that we are not making fun of Natives, but rather remembering and honoring them by naming our universities and professional teams after them.

So my question is, is it ok to do this? Are we dishonoring our Natives? Or are we honoring them by naming our beloved universities and professional teams after them?

Here's a few teams that would have to change their school/team name:

College Teams:

Florida State Seminoles
Illinois Fighting Illini
St Johns Red Storm
San Diego State Aztecs
University of Southern California Trojans
Iowa Hawkeyes
Central Michigan Chippewas
Utah Utes
Alcorn State Braves
Bradley Braves
Arkansas State Indians
Louisiana-Monroe Indians
North Dakota Fighting Soux

Pro Teams (not yet a rule, but surely a possibility)

Atlanta Braves
Cleveland Indians
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
Chicago Blackhawks

Here's an article for those who don't really know much about the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838557/

I don't give a cent what people think of the names. I don't think it should never be change.

The thing is : "It sounds cool" The names they use aren't suppose to be use in everyday conversation SO everytime someone say like : "Chiefs, Redskins" people will think of the football teams name after them.

Indian American culture was almost destroyed by the "AMERICAN". It is something that we can do for them to honor their culture that could be lost through time.

sonorajim
08-13-2005, 04:13 PM
In every case, the name is used to honor the proud fighting spirit of their namesake. To contend that terms such as Redskins and Indians are epithets and insults is a stretch. They were common generic expressions for " native americans" used by immigrant populations, and we all know that immigrants must be treated with the utmost sensitivity.

BCBoltFan
08-13-2005, 05:05 PM
Hmmm......
I guess the "B" word is considered a bad one around here :)

Guess you guys will have to call me something else :)
Yeah, what are you thinkin' b****. :p And to take this political correctness a little further, we won't be able to say "our lineman", they'll be referred to as "line-persons". :Beer:

Onion Knight
08-13-2005, 05:12 PM
College Teams:

Florida State Seminoles
Illinois Fighting Illini
St Johns Red Storm***
San Diego State Aztecs
University of Southern California Trojans****
Iowa Hawkeyes*****
Central Michigan Chippewas
Utah Utes
Alcorn State Braves
Bradley Braves
Arkansas State Indians
Louisiana-Monroe Indians
North Dakota Fighting Soux

Pro Teams (not yet a rule, but surely a possibility)

Atlanta Braves
Cleveland Indians
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
Chicago Blackhawks

Here's an article for those who don't really know much about the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838557/

*** already changed their name from Red Men
**** Trojans are not Native American, they are from what is now Turkey, or Asia Minor: they faught the greek city states in the epic of the Iliad; a fleeing Trojan, Aeneas, founded the City of Rome in the Legend of the Aeneid.
***** I dont think this is a Native American name.


ASide from this : I think in many ways this is a joke; Yahoo sports had a great commentary on this about beaurocrats dictating morality.
I understand the Redskins and the logo for the Cleveland indians being offensive. Especially the redskins; but I really doubt thats going to change.
I understand the "fighting Souix name, because Souix is a derogatory term for the Lakota people.
Redskins is the most controversial I would say; ironic , its the national capitol's team.
But the Florida State team? Or simply "warriors" which Marquette had to change? I mean there are all types of warriors......

BCBoltFan
08-13-2005, 05:14 PM
Are we also offending Scandinavians with the use of the "Vikings". What about the Pope, is he OK with the "Saints"... :confused:

Onion Knight
08-13-2005, 05:14 PM
PS> Ive always liked the Aztec mascot and the name; now if they could only find a way to do mascot sacrifices and eat the hearts of the victims like a real aztec would, that woul be quite a halftime show!

Onion Knight
08-13-2005, 05:29 PM
Additionally, since the subject has been breached: I don't take to hyphenated or provocative race names either; such as Native Americans, Arab-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Mexican-Americans, German-Americans, etc. although the latter name would be most likely construed as non-PC, but I have heard it used. We are all either Black, White, Oriental, Hispanic, etc. - when it comes to our race - if there is really any reason to make note of it, outside of news releases needed to search for a suspect in a crime. Why can't we all just be "Americans", if we are not being searched out for criminal activity?

Here is my take; like it or not. People constantly want to define themselves by something other than their actions. Thats too responsible. ( this topic has scatched open a really heavy subject to me) AS soon as we define ourselves by our flavor we came in, our lineage, what we have sex with, what piece of dirt we live on , what colorful rag our government unfurls , we start separating ourselves from other people. Ive traveled all over the world. people are pertty much the same everywhere, like it or not. similar problems (trying to live well ) are everywhere, though the economic differences and regions may dictate what exactly those problems are.
The fact that we wish to define ourselves by something other than our actions is due to a loneliness; we want to be around similar people, similar looking, similar experiences , and similar views.

Personally : I dont want anybody to think the same way I do, though I would love if people would understand why I think the way I do. And I like to understand people different than me. AS soon as we start to understand other people, we accept them for what they are. OK.... this is getting really in depth and I could ramble on, I wont. I hope from what I have said, you can see a bit of what I am getting at.

Back to the indian team thing; most of it is BS. The Redskins though.... well, thats really ..... bad. Even though I understand they have been a longstanding team , etc. that is a pretty derogatory term. It does create waves of resentment, and big ones.

BCBoltFan
08-13-2005, 10:50 PM
PS> Ive always liked the Aztec mascot and the name; now if they could only find a way to do mascot sacrifices and eat the hearts of the victims like a real aztec would, that woul be quite a halftime show!
And there could be wardrobe malfunctions too!

ChargerDawg
08-13-2005, 11:29 PM
now tell me it is offensive to call a team the indians?

I agree the mascot is not the most PC, but indians?

if we follow this logic to its logical conclusion, we would have no refernce to native americans, and their heritage would be lost....

btw... FSU has permission to use the seminole name... I would not dougt that some money passes hands, but they don't see it a a degradation of their culture...

LT21=Superman
08-13-2005, 11:34 PM
I think if the NCAA is gonna do that, why stop at just team names...outlaw Native American city names too. I.E. Seattle. Also, they should outlaw spanish names too...like Los Angeles. I think its idiotic. Soon we'll have the PETA people saying that the Falcons and Seahawks should change their names because kids will interpret the message being sent as 'its ok to hurt animals'.

HBBoltFan
08-14-2005, 12:47 AM
The NCAA is clueless as usual. The Seminoles are happy with the affiliation and somehow the Aztecs are ok. If they want to be PC, fine but ask the groups that have teams named after them if they are offended first and I bet quite a few would say no.

As for the Redskins, as much as I like tradition that name probably only makes their fans happy. And names such as the Savages are derogatory but to who? The Native-Americans, Africans, Pacific Islanders or ancient Celts/Britons? All have been referred to as savages or a variant. And the name Warriors is not a problem to me, when I was in the Marines many times we were referenced as warriors and never did I think of us playing cowboy and indian. To me a warrior was always a honorable combantant.

Now for the Cleveland Indians, the logo should be changed to the 7-11 sign. Oh wait, that doesn't work either, my local 7-11 is owned by Pakistanis and I don't think they would like that connection. Ok how about this, the Cleveland Outsourcers. The only rule would be that nobody on the team can be American.:rolleyes:

hegor
08-14-2005, 02:43 AM
Its funny how the San Diego State Aztecs escaped this. I guess if a tribe has been killed off completely, its ok to abuse its name and likeness.

I think Chris Rock said it best on SNL. Having a team called the Washington Redskins is like having a team called the New York Ni*****.

Heres my suggestion for name changes for the offending universities.

Florida State....... Vote Counters
Illinois .............Overzealous Native American Advocates.
St Johns....... Johns (they can put a toliet on the side of their helmet)
San Diego State........Keggers (party school?)
University of Southern California ............Frat Hazers
Iowa..........Presumptous Sports Writers
Central Michigan..........Doormats
Utah............ Mormons
Alcorn State.........Protesters
Bradley...........Cowtowing Administrators
Arkansas State......Hillbillies
Louisiana-Monroe............Angry Cajuns
North Dakota.......Oppurtunistic Politicans

Now for the Pros

Atlanta..........Shermans
Cleveland .........Rocks (get it?)
Kansas City .........Chefs (remember the snickers commerical)
Washington .........Bureaucrats
Chicago.........Hawks of African Heritage

IgorUnchained
08-14-2005, 05:49 AM
This is the only team I think is offensive.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/332/fightingwhites4ls.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



Seriously though...I dont mind the teams like the Chiefs or the Seminoles, but the Redskins is a different story. If the new expansion team was called the Portland Blackskins and had a similar logo (and was run by rich white guys)....would we even be having this conversation?

WHITELIGHTNING
08-14-2005, 07:31 AM
This is a very touchy subject and believe me it goes further than just names.

Foutsfan1
08-14-2005, 08:16 AM
Ya know, now that you mention it, I (being of Irish heritage), can't help being more than a little insulted everytime I hear mention of the mascot of a certain team in South Bend Indiana. I'm a very peaceful person and don't appreciate being looked at as a trouble-maker! Therefore they should change their name to the rigid tap-dancers or potato harvesters. :D

Onion Knight
08-14-2005, 09:17 AM
Why not the redskins change their name to the rednecks? its just a few letters away.

And the PETA comment above was funny; and perhaps possible as well. PETA are sick people with way too much time on their hands.

SDFaiderHater
08-14-2005, 09:53 AM
The onyl one i have any kind of problem with, and its a small one, is the Redskins.

BigoldT
08-14-2005, 10:03 AM
Following up on this idea - we have several States that were named after the local tribes that lived in the region back when this country was started. We should start changing those too. Iowa could be changed to Corn, Illinois could be change to Some More Corn. :D

mwooten
08-14-2005, 10:51 AM
It's pretty ridiculous. I remember SDSU had a bunch of students protesting it (I think just for attention). The way I look at it is that they are honoring, or paying tribute to the tribes.

sonorajim
08-14-2005, 12:09 PM
I think White is just as much a derogatory slur as Redskin. Particularly when uttered from the mouths of non caucasians. " Whites" are actually Celtic Americans, Saxon Americans, Gaelic Americans, Danish Americans, Persian Americans, etc, and with very rare exception are not white in color. For my part, I think way too much attention is being given to trying to make ammends for history that cannot be altered. Trying to cover up is a waste of time. Let's simply accept the past for what it is and quit obsessing about labels.

LordBling
08-14-2005, 01:20 PM
I can see how some people might be offended by team names and mascots that reference a particular culture. Especially in regard to mascots, who are often a caricature derived from a cultural stereotype.

This country is sometimes perceived as the white mans land, that is controlled by whites to the detriment of other races. (Even though many whites feel just as powerless as everyone else to control their own destiny) Historically, the white - euro culture has systematically dominated the planet and subjugated those who do not conform to its belief system. in a sense these sports team names and mascots are an extension of the domination, and could even be seen as a perversion of the cultures they supposedly represent.

I believe that if the team name and mascot are sensitive to those who would be offended that it would be OK. How about if a portion of the money made by these teams went to support an educational grant, both for the culture itself and for those who have a skewed perception of these ethnic groups over the years.

I find that too often, we are unwilling to make intelligent comromises. Instead we seem to latch on to someting sensationalist and then ride it all the way to D.C. The problem is that we are slowly eroding our right to make our own decisions.

I guess the bottom line is that if you force teams to change their Native American oriented image, then you have to address all the other ones too, such as Fighting Irish, Vikings etc.

BTW, anyone know were I can get some 'fightin whities' gear? that is sooooo cool!

denverboltfan
08-14-2005, 01:21 PM
This is the only team I think is offensive.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/332/fightingwhites4ls.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



Seriously though...I dont mind the teams like the Chiefs or the Seminoles, but the Redskins is a different story. If the new expansion team was called the Portland Blackskins and had a similar logo (and was run by rich white guys)....would we even be having this conversation?

The fighting whities began as an intramural basketball team at the University of Northern Colorado. Got some newspaper coverage in Denver. I wonder if VJ has heard of them. Wish I had gotten a T-shirt. I think everyone takes themselves too seriously, so why don't you crackers just drop the subject.

LordBling
08-14-2005, 01:23 PM
thats crack - as. if you say the 'R' I'm gonna reach back and smack you like a pimp would. (JK)

denverboltfan
08-14-2005, 01:27 PM
thats crack - as. if you say the 'R' I'm gonna reach back and smack you like a pimp would. (JK)

Please elaborate as some of us don't have to pay for sex and aren't as familiar with pimp habits.

LordBling
08-14-2005, 01:30 PM
LOL, thats funny! Its a line from a song, 'boyz in the hood'

L.T. - 21
08-14-2005, 01:48 PM
man i had no idea about the USC Trojans, my dad is a history major and he just told me the consider them to be Inidian warriors

blueJAY
08-14-2005, 02:20 PM
I always thought the Aztecs were a tribe from Mexico, thus making them a hispanic tribe and not a Native American tribe.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Boltfan92153
08-14-2005, 02:24 PM
Unless the names are racially rude or discriminating, then there is an issue, but if it is not, then if it is not offensive, then there is not a big issue.

LordBling
08-14-2005, 02:48 PM
'hispanic' refers to people descended from spaniards and naitive americans. therefore, Aztecs are not hispanic, but they are native american.

Onion Knight
08-14-2005, 02:50 PM
I always thought the Aztecs were a tribe from Mexico, thus making them a hispanic tribe and not a Native American tribe.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hispanic is Native mixed with Spanish Blood ( I believe)
Mexico; still Native America, Central American, but American Nonetheless.

Onion Knight
08-14-2005, 02:51 PM
man i had no idea about the USC Trojans, my dad is a history major and he just told me the consider them to be Inidian warriors

Native-Turkish-Indaians maybe:D

ftwbolt
08-14-2005, 06:49 PM
War, Poverty, Homeless, Child Abuse Etc.

Dont people have enough to worry about these days then to worry about abunch of names. I mean if all Indian nation's, and I mean no disrespect to them, should just think that it is just a name and nothing more.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20050814-125639-1395r_page2.htm

By Dan Daly
August 14, 2005


In a poll published in this month's Playboy -- and don't we all look forward to Playboy's, uh, polls -- 90 percent of the 768 Native Americans surveyed said they weren't offended by the Washington Redskins' mascot.
To which Neal from Gaithersburg replies, "But 100 percent said they were offended by Dan Snyder."

LTfan4life
08-14-2005, 09:56 PM
LOL, thats funny! Its a line from a song, 'boyz in the hood'

Haha...gotta love Eazy E...RIP :Bolt:

espanto619
08-14-2005, 11:46 PM
Hispanic is Native mixed with Spanish Blood ( I believe)
Mexico; still Native America, Central American, but American Nonetheless.
OK guys. First of all "hispanic" means "of Spanish decent"! The Aztecs are a Native tribe from central Mexico, better known as the Mexicas, thus the name Mexico, given to the land taken from the Mexicas by the Spanish. Now I don't really know what Atlas you all were looking at when you decided to say that Mexico is in Central America, but Mexico is very much a part of North America! So yes the "Aztecs" are technically Native Americans.

I usually don't like mixing politics with sports, because our common ground is that we all love the Bolts, regardless of our many different backgrounds. i say that we should let the Natives decide how they want to be represented, and them only.

SDFaiderHater
08-14-2005, 11:51 PM
It's pretty ridiculous. I remember SDSU had a bunch of students protesting it (I think just for attention). The way I look at it is that they are honoring, or paying tribute to the tribes.

except none of them where actually aztecs.

GrbgCllctr
08-15-2005, 12:38 AM
Here is my take; like it or not. People constantly want to define themselves by something other than their actions. Thats too responsible. ( this topic has scatched open a really heavy subject to me) AS soon as we define ourselves by our flavor we came in, our lineage, what we have sex with, what piece of dirt we live on , what colorful rag our government unfurls , we start separating ourselves from other people. Ive traveled all over the world. people are pertty much the same everywhere, like it or not. similar problems (trying to live well ) are everywhere, though the economic differences and regions may dictate what exactly those problems are.
The fact that we wish to define ourselves by something other than our actions is due to a loneliness; we want to be around similar people, similar looking, similar experiences , and similar views.

Personally : I dont want anybody to think the same way I do, though I would love if people would understand why I think the way I do. And I like to understand people different than me. AS soon as we start to understand other people, we accept them for what they are. OK.... this is getting really in depth and I could ramble on, I wont. I hope from what I have said, you can see a bit of what I am getting at.

Nope. You lost me, my Bolt brother. But that's okay, we have that one passion that binds and unites all of us together - the San Diego CHARGERS!

As a good friend of mine once said, many moons ago, during a moment of personal crisis: "Can't we all just get along?" :D

chargers4real
08-15-2005, 09:26 AM
In every case, the name is used to honor the proud fighting spirit of their namesake. To contend that terms such as Redskins and Indians are epithets and insults is a stretch. They were common generic expressions for " native americans" used by immigrant populations, and we all know that immigrants must be treated with the utmost sensitivity.
Yea, Paleface!

chargers4real
08-15-2005, 09:44 AM
Everyone needs to calm down with all this PC crap. Last time I checked the Right to Never be Offended is not in the Constitution. If I got mad every time I heard the word "b***h", I'd be mad all the time.

BTW, from what I understand, the Florida State Seminoles have official approval from the Seminole Nation to use the name.
Yea, I agree. I am offended nearabout every day! Nobody cares either. I thought about protesting but nobody notices a mob of 1.
I think people look for things to get upset about. American freedom and culture has cultivated a passion for attention. It's like people are addicted to it. Huggin' trees, having parades, camping out in trees for weeks, hangin' out in front of the president's ranch, etc. It seems to me that complaining about sports teams using your tribe's or group's name is counterproductive. Once the name "Seminole" has been dropped from Florida States sports program it is only a matter of time before they (the native american tribe) are completely forgotten. There will come a time when a generation will grow up never hearing about the Seminole tribe. However...with sports teams carrying these names on, they will forever be honored in history.
Come on people....get a hobby!

blueJAY
08-15-2005, 10:58 AM
'hispanic' refers to people descended from spaniards and naitive americans. therefore, Aztecs are not hispanic, but they are native american.

Hispanic is Native mixed with Spanish Blood ( I believe)
Mexico; still Native America, Central American, but American Nonetheless.

Ah ok. Clarifies everything now. Thanx guys! :)

Chargerpower71
08-15-2005, 11:02 AM
I am a HUGE Cleveland Indians fan. I have no problem with the name and believe the name to be a positive tribute to Native Americans. However I've grown a little put off by the "chief Wahoo" smiling Indian logo. Now I choose to buy the teams script "I" hat logo instead.

Of course, we all know what team has the BEST logo in sports.

Chargerpower71
08-15-2005, 11:04 AM
Has anyone mentioned the Padres as being non PC???

Eowawa
08-15-2005, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by LTfan4life

College Teams:

Florida State Seminoles
Illinois Fighting Illini
St Johns Red Storm***
San Diego State Aztecs
University of Southern California Trojans****
Iowa Hawkeyes*****
Central Michigan Chippewas
Utah Utes
Alcorn State Braves
Bradley Braves
Arkansas State Indians
Louisiana-Monroe Indians
North Dakota Fighting Soux

Pro Teams (not yet a rule, but surely a possibility)

Atlanta Braves
Cleveland Indians
Kansas City Chiefs
Washington Redskins
Chicago Blackhawks

Here's an article for those who don't really know much about the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8838557/


*** already changed their name from Red Men
**** Trojans are not Native American, they are from what is now Turkey, or Asia Minor: they faught the greek city states in the epic of the Iliad; a fleeing Trojan, Aeneas, founded the City of Rome in the Legend of the Aeneid.
***** I dont think this is a Native American name. RE:...
************************************************** ****

You are sadly mistaken on the HAWKEYES. The name was chosen by a Burlington Iowa Judge (1837) to honour the great Chief Blackhawk (Hawkeye) for the entire territory, later to become the state. When The University of Iowa was land granted, it inherited the name as well to honour the Chief who fought so bravely for that land and his people living in the villages on it.... the Sauk and Fox Nation. Remnants of the Sauk nation still remain in nearby Tama, just 40 mlies or so from the school campus today.

There is absolutely no disrespect given or violent imagery displayed here whatsoever.....on the contrary, it is well documented in the early Iowa Legislature that it was done as a living honorium for this great NATIVE AMERICAN LEADER.

TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

EOWAWA..
UNIVERSITY OF iOWA ALUM 1965 AND iOWA CITY BORN CITIZEN

Onion Knight
08-15-2005, 01:35 PM
New Mexico State University's mascot, Pistol Pete, is being disarmed. University officials have also stripped the word "Pistol" from Pete's name. The new logo shows Pete twirling a lasso. The old Pete toted a pistol.

I think all NCAA schools should have either puppies, kittens, baby seals or flowers as their mascots. :(

Onion Knight
08-15-2005, 02:10 PM
You are sadly mistaken on the HAWKEYES. The name was chosen by a Burlington Iowa Judge (1837) to honour the great Chief Blackhawk (Hawkeye) for the entire territory, later to become the state. When The University of Iowa was land granted, it inherited the name as well to honour the Chief who fought so bravely for that land and his people living in the villages on it.... the Sauk and Fox Nation. Remnants of the Sauk nation still remain in nearby Tama, just 40 mlies or so from the school campus today.

There is absolutely no disrespect given or violent imagery displayed here whatsoever.....on the contrary, it is well documented in the early Iowa Legislature that it was done as a living honorium for this great NATIVE AMERICAN LEADER.

TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

EOWAWA..
UNIVERSITY OF iOWA ALUM 1965 AND iOWA CITY BORN CITIZEN

Geez. I said I didnt think it was a native name, I by no means tried to sound authoritative there; I was uncertain. Because I said " I dont think" it doesnt mean that "I do know". Obviously reading comprehension wasnt your strong point at the University. No need to jump down anbody's throat. Lighten the fulk up.

Boltfan92153
08-15-2005, 02:18 PM
Everyone is turning to be so sensitive now with everything, pretty soon kids cannot play tag, because the pc police say children should not be labeled "it".

WHITELIGHTNING
08-15-2005, 03:44 PM
The Mount Soledad cross must go, the San Diego City Council said yesterday.

Nothing is safe anymore.

Onion Knight
08-15-2005, 06:20 PM
http://image16.webshots.com/16/8/47/36/194884736NWGRiB_ph.jpg

So what do you call these chaps without insulting anybody?

Eowawa
08-15-2005, 07:35 PM
Geez. I said I didnt think it was a native name, I by no means tried to sound authoritative there; I was uncertain. Because I said " I dont think" it doesnt mean that "I do know". Obviously reading comprehension wasnt your strong point at the University. No need to jump down anbody's throat. Lighten the fulk up. Re: Onion Knight
*************************************

It wasn't just you that had it wrong and I thought I would just set the record straight for the readers here. Thanks for the insult though, rook!

Onion Knight
08-15-2005, 09:45 PM
It wasn't just you that had it wrong and I thought I would just set the record straight for the readers here. Thanks for the insult though, rook!

Rook? ok Pawn. If I recall SPELLING IN ALL CAPS isnt really seen as a good thing so the mods say, and I took your post as hostile Here is what you posted.
"TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT." Im sorry if I offended your Iowa-hood. I trully didnt think the Hawkeyes had anything to do with Indians. I stand corrected. Congrats you knew that trivial fact and in turn got to tell everyone how much you know and how little others know with:

TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE JUST DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

You are a genius. There, feel better? Im done here.

LordBling
08-16-2005, 01:08 AM
OK kids, play nice or I'll give you a time out.

seriously, when you look at how easily people get pissed off on internet bulletin boards, its no wonder people get upset at other 'meaningless' things...

WARHAWKS
08-16-2005, 10:00 PM
when i went to washington d.c. trip, i went to boston. i went to visit old native american area. and i met some native americans. and i learn...two thing that r very in****ive is REDSKINS and INDIANS...

espanto619
08-16-2005, 10:28 PM
when i went to washington d.c. trip, i went to boston. i went to visit old native american area. and i met some native americans. and i learn...two thing that r very in****ive is REDSKINS and INDIANS...
?????????????

kwirk79
08-17-2005, 12:35 AM
I'm pretty indifferent to it. People are too PC these days...I can see how some people would get offended, but hey, that's life. If it offends them that much they shouldn't support the team, it's not like they don't have a choice in the matter...

Chargers Rule!
08-24-2005, 04:08 PM
redskins IS a slurr(this word was used to degrade the native americans).
tomahawk chop? yelling the war chant? native americans do not want to be represented like that. lets see......... how about the pale-face's? and instead of the tomahawk chop...how about a whipping motion? dosent seem right......you know?:confused:

pilar
09-01-2005, 07:43 PM
I am glad that the NCAA is doing this and I hope it catches on to professional sports teams names. I studied Native American history is college and in light of how they are now obliterated this is no way to "pay tribute" to their memory. If people want to remember them, they should read about book about it. Naming a bunch of sports teams and mascots after a group of people with a heartbreaking past is no way to deepen the general public's understanding of them.

I am not native american, but I would never want to see the day when a mascot is named after my people or heritage.

I can't believe this is even up for discussion.