PDA

View Full Version : Abraham for Rivers?


HighBoltage
02-07-2006, 10:40 AM
http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1139292614267780.xml&coll=1

I'm not buying into this story, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss whether or not we as fans think it would be a good idea to make this move.

I personally think we shouldn't. We may need Rivers if DB doesn't recover, and I think or #1 rush defense doesn't need Abraham. The article seems to try and spin it because Brian Schottenheimer is there now trying lure Phillip into their fold.

Ikeman83
02-07-2006, 10:58 AM
No... what would we even use John Abraham for? He's a 4-3 DE, which means that he'd either have to play OLB or DE in our scheme. We already have serious playmakers at OLB, and he's too small to be a 3-4 DE.

If Rivers wanted to restructure his contract and give us back his bonus, I can see trading him to the Jets... but not for John Abraham.

CBO
02-07-2006, 11:04 AM
I like Abraham but if that is all we get then I would not do it. He will cost us a lot of $$ as will Rivres if we let him go. Also he is a pass rusher and we already heve 3 players to fill that role. None of which would cost as much. He is only 256lbs and way to small for 3-4 DE.

ghost
02-07-2006, 11:05 AM
This particular topic needs to quietly go away.

A 4-3 defensive end who, who doesn't fit in our system and he wants a $60+ million dollar contract and a $20 million dollars signing bonus? Wow, where do I sign up?

If the Chargers wanted to go defense, they could stay put at #19 and draft 4-3 end in Tamba Hali. A better player than Abraham and at a fraction of the cost. Hali and Merriman coming off the edge? That would be just ridiculously fun to watch.

Dago81Sd
02-07-2006, 01:10 PM
Rather get Vilma then some 4-3 DE that doesn't fit within the system.

RAWDOGG
02-07-2006, 01:21 PM
I would do it if the Jets give up Abraham and a their first round pick, then we take D'Brick and trade Abraham to another team for a maybe a 2nd and 3rd round pick?

Just a thought, probably highly unlikely

TheIceCreamMan
02-07-2006, 01:31 PM
i wuld defintley trade that ..in a second
that wuld be a steal

even tho highy unlikley

Mr. Electricity
02-07-2006, 01:45 PM
:Bolt: John Abraham is a freakish athlete who would be in the HoF one day if not for injuries. Unfortunately, the guy has glass ankles and brittle hamstrings and never could play an entire college season much less 16 games w/ the big boys.

I do think that he is great value for Rivers, but not sure about the financials...as far as Jets go perhaps Rivers for Ty Law or Justin Miller or L. Coles /future considerations would be better for the Chargers.

Selfishly, I would love to have another Gamec0ck playing for the Bolts, but I don't think it's the right time or place.

gwpeterson5
02-07-2006, 01:49 PM
I would do it if the Jets give up Abraham and a their first round pick, then we take D'Brick and trade Abraham to another team for a maybe a 2nd and 3rd round pick?

Just a thought, probably highly unlikely


that would never happen ... the jets will not give up their 1st rounder for rivers, so i would try and get their 2nd and possible lower pick, and we could address our D-backfield and O-line needs in the draft. If not rivers for vilma would be nice, but we would have to give them something in return because vilma is the anchor to their defense (169 takles, 1 INT), especially because it looks like they are looking to get rid of abraham, they need to keep one of them, i would stick with vilma ... though the jets might give us 1,2,3 picks for rivers considering they only wanted a #4 for herm ... idiots haha:21:

BoltsfanNYC
02-07-2006, 02:33 PM
I would want a Starter like LAW and a 2nd round pick for rivers.... problems are... cap on rivers... so we need a starter.. Coles would be good though.. and a 2nd... or mawae and 2nd...

SuperBowlBolts
02-07-2006, 03:57 PM
We trade Rivers we kill our cap room, and you gotta consider if were going to resign Brees. Then after that you have to accept we wont be doing much in FA then.

RAWDOGG
02-07-2006, 03:58 PM
We trade Rivers we kill our cap room, and you gotta consider if were going to resign Brees. Then after that you have to accept we wont be doing much in FA then.

Huh?..........:rolleyes:

bigbolthead21
02-07-2006, 06:03 PM
I believe that the chiefs will acquire abraham and the chargers will not trade rivers atleast 4 this season

HighBoltage
02-07-2006, 06:05 PM
What would KC give them for Abraham?

bigbolthead21
02-07-2006, 06:40 PM
What would KC give them for Abraham?
I don't know but I bet herman edwards will try to acquire him

Evil47
02-07-2006, 07:17 PM
I would just trade Rivers for D'Brickshaw.

SuperBowlBolts
02-07-2006, 11:07 PM
I would just trade Rivers for D'Brickshaw.
i would to but the question is can we afford to do so and improve our team through FA? The answer is no, unless we sign a lot of no name guys from FA that come out of no where much like Foley did.

ChampCharger
02-08-2006, 01:17 AM
I love seeing people talk about the Chargers 1st Round QB and how he can be dealt.
I think that someone, somewhere is going to give us a high quality package to pull our young QB off the bench and into a new uniform.

The more people talk about it, with a lot of teams needing a QB, the more Rivers' stock rises in a possible trade.

Now that would most likely free up cap space.

Dojo
02-08-2006, 11:03 AM
I love seeing people talk about the Chargers 1st Round QB and how he can be dealt.
I think that someone, somewhere is going to give us a high quality package to pull our young QB off the bench and into a new uniform.

The more people talk about it, with a lot of teams needing a QB, the more Rivers' stock rises in a possible trade.

Now that would most likely free up cap space.
I'm just not sure if A.J. will pass up prime trading time. IMO Rivers' stock will be it's highest right before the draft. If he was in the draft this year, knowing what he knows now, he would be the #1 pick overall. Teams recognize that and Rivers would be an immediate impact player whatever team he goes to. I just see him not making an impact again for the chargers and A.J. letting that prime trading time slip through his fingertips.
Abraham for Rivers would be stupid for the Chargers. That's like the Colts trying to trade up for Matt Leinart, it's not going to happen. We need to address our team needs, which is DB's, OL, and a #1 WR. I agree that Abraham is better than Foley but what will we do with Foley? release him? he's making far less than Abraham and is very productive. He had 10 sacks last year! I could see Foley getting 10, Merriman getting 15 next year and it would lead to our DB's getting more turnovers! Don't do this trade!

loweezy
02-08-2006, 12:20 PM
i'd rather have vilma... :)

JoeMcRugby
02-08-2006, 12:24 PM
I love seeing people talk about the Chargers 1st Round QB and how he can be dealt.
I think that someone, somewhere is going to give us a high quality package to pull our young QB off the bench and into a new uniform.

The more people talk about it, with a lot of teams needing a QB, the more Rivers' stock rises in a possible trade.

Now that would most likely free up cap space.

I agree with everything until your last statement.

Free up cap space? Trading Rivers will eat up almost 1/2 of the Chargers 2006 cap space.

PR counts a little more than $3 million against the Chargers 2006 cap if he stays with the team - he costs around $12 million if he's traded.

Tomlinson21
02-08-2006, 12:33 PM
Joe McRugby in classic cross examination fashion!!!

Dojo
02-08-2006, 12:51 PM
i'd rather have vilma... :)
i'd rather have law and the 4th pick :) go chargers! :Bolt:

Ikeman83
02-08-2006, 01:13 PM
What would be the cap impact if Rivers gave back some of his bonus money(like the balance of whatever's left)?

Super.Chargers
02-08-2006, 03:28 PM
John Abraham he is injury prone i say stick with Rivers if he can learn to read the blitz he will be deadly

P.S. i would love to see Larry Allen and T.O. on the Chargers

Seats would be full LT wont get injured as mutch because teams

wont be able to stack the line build around Rivers.....

Also if we have T.O. we wont have to worry about our

Corner Back issues... thinks About it Rivers L.T. Gates Neal T.O

ChampCharger
02-08-2006, 04:15 PM
What would be the cap impact if Rivers gave back some of his bonus money(like the balance of whatever's left)?

Good point. If Rivers wants to be traded, wouldn't he give up some money. The guy wants to start.

JoeMcRugby
02-08-2006, 04:32 PM
Good point. If Rivers wants to be traded, wouldn't he give up some money. The guy wants to start.

I'm not sure if the "giving back bonus money" works in a trade like it does when releasing a player. The only instance I can find is Verba giving back money to be released from his contract. Obviously, that is not a trade.

The NFL might look at a "pay back of bonus money" and the trading partner then paying PR bonus money as being a "step transaction" that was made specifically to avoid the salary cap rules. If the NFL would rule that way, they would view it as if PR hadn't given back the money because in the end, he ended up with the same money in his bank account.

And you can bet on this: in the end, PR won't be giving up money that's already in his bank account. The team trading for him would have to reimburse him for any money given back to the Bolts.

This is uncharted territory, so I am not sure if it is feasible.

bolts4ever21
02-08-2006, 04:37 PM
Yeah, Abraham is a nice player. But we have other needs. And why deal with the J.E.T.S unless it involved their #4 pick. Either we move up or just leave it as it is. But the Brick would be nice.

Tomlinson21
02-08-2006, 10:40 PM
I like Abraham...but I don't think he fits the 3-4 mold or does he? I think compared to Igor and Luis...he's "skinny". I think we need bulkier linemen in the 3-4 defense to really be effective and I think Cesaire and I believe, Robinson and DQ (Dequincy Scott) are good back ups.

DE is least of our worries...plus we got Godfrey back next year so that shoots down ILB rumoors for Vilma, so unless they give us some picks for Rivers (#1 with some players) it aint happening.

wikimama
02-08-2006, 10:48 PM
Abraham is not injury prone! He started 16 games and had 10.5 sacks like Merriman. He is perfect for the 3-4, he is better than Foley and Phillips combined. John Clayton on Espn said that he is the most sought after baller this offseason. He is 6-4 260, the perfect size for olb and he is young.

Also, the Bolts have way more trade value with JA then Rivers, most teams would kill to have this guy. With JA you could get into the top 10 of the draft, with Rivers that is not even possible. Rivers maybe would demand a mid to late 1st and only a few teams would have interst.

baddass4444
02-08-2006, 10:50 PM
I got an idea...,

How about we trade Rivers and Turner for the Number 4 pick (Da'brickshaw) and Ty Law???

I think that could be a good trade for everybody!

JoeMcRugby
02-08-2006, 10:51 PM
Abraham is not injury prone! He started 16 games and had 10.5 sacks like Merriman. He is perfect for the 3-4, he is better than Foley and Phillips combined.

When has the "perfect" Abraham played LB in the NFL?

Answer: Never.

You're looking at paying $60+ million (including a $20 million signing bonus - aka Brees' long term contract money) for a guy who hasn't played LB since he left South Carolina more than a half-decade ago.

Add into the fact that the guy wouldn't play in the playoffs despite getting medical clearance to play because he was more concerned with a big free agent payday - it all adds up to:

a big-time pass on Abraham. :rolleyes:

wikimama
02-08-2006, 11:02 PM
When did Merriman play outside backer in college? What did Tedy Bruschi do and Phillips play in college? Oh yeah, DE.

He is just as good of a freak as Merriman. Foley is ageing and Phillips is a good young player but not on Abes level.

wikimama
02-08-2006, 11:03 PM
Also, if they want to trade him for a pick they have 10 times more value.

JoeMcRugby
02-08-2006, 11:16 PM
When did Merriman play outside backer in college? What did Tedy Bruschi do and Phillips play in college? Oh yeah, DE.

He is just as good of a freak as Merriman. Foley is ageing and Phillips is a good young player but not on Abes level.
Not even close, Wiki. Not even close.

As for the other players, they immediately began playing LB the second they entered the NFL. OLB and DE in college are interchangeable for most teams when the players enter the pros.

The key is that they didn't spend their first half-dozen years in the NFL (prime physical years) at DE and then switch to a position that requires far more mobility and different skills after enduring a half-dozen years of NFL punishment.

Sorry, but I don't see the Chargers having the slightest interest in paying a $20 million signing bonus to a guy who refused to play in the playoffs because "his payday" was more important than he and his team getting a ring. :Bolt:

On a scale from 1 to 10 in gauging the Chargers needs for 2006 (with 10 being the highest need), OLB is a 1 for the Bolts. It's the deepest position on the team. O-line, safety, ILB, WR, CB, and NT are far bigger needs for the team. Giving up their prime "trade bait" for an addition to the deepest part of their roster makes zero sense IMO, but maybe that's just me.

wikimama
02-08-2006, 11:53 PM
If you don't want to keep him then you can get a top 10 pick and get Huff,Justice,JW or maybe even D'brick. With Rivers you can get a late first and get a guy like Sinorice Moss, Chad Jackson, Eric Winston, or Darnell Bing.


Huff is an elite talent while Bing is a solid prospect. Anyway my point is you can get alot more for JA than Rivers.


How does this not makes sense to you? You have so much more value.

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 12:05 AM
If you don't want to keep him then you can get a top 10 pick and get Huff,Justice,JW or maybe even D'brick. With Rivers you can get a late first and get a guy like Sinorice Moss, Chad Jackson, Eric Winston, or Darnell Bing.

Huff is an elite talent while Bing is a solid prospect. Anyway my point is you can get alot more for JA than Rivers.

How does this not makes sense to you? You have so much more value.
Are you talking about Abraham? :confused:

In order to get JA in a trade, Abraham has to agree to a long-term deal with the Bolts before the trade is made.

Abraham has turned down deals with the Jets that would pay him more bonus money upfront than the outstanding prorated bonus money spent on PR. You're talking about a $15 to $20 million signing bonus for Abraham to agree to come to SD.

Are you suggesting the Chargers trade PR for Abraham, and then turn around and trade Abraham? If you do that, then the Chargers would be taking a $11 million cap hit for trading PR, then taking an additional $15 million to $20 million cap hit to trade Abraham!! :confused:

I see perfectly clear - It makes no sense to me and I don't see any possible scenario where it could happen. This is a pipe dream scenario dreamed up by NY/NJ media hacks.

wikimama
02-09-2006, 12:19 AM
Well the Skins want him bad and we all know how much they can spend.

Mr. Heisman
02-09-2006, 12:43 AM
Just trade rivers for the 1st round pick of the jets and a third or forth! hell a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick next year!

ptr77
02-09-2006, 08:49 AM
John Abraham? lol, first off he is an overpaid overrated DE that isn't even top 10, second he's always injured, third his d with all that talent last year still sucked. The chargers are deep at lb, and don't need another one at the moment. Not too mention he has never played lb, probably knows little about coverage, and the chargers didn't have problem pressuring the QB. This trade will never happen because it doesn't benefit the chargers in any way. Aj will sign ppl like Ricky Manning Jr. for cb or Azumah and bring in safety help and that will be all the team needs other than oline help.

Alibell1
02-09-2006, 09:49 AM
Just trade rivers for the 1st round pick of the jets and a third or forth! hell a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick next year!

Heck, while they're at it the Chargers should see if they can get a Ricky Williams type deal done for Rivers. They should see if a team will dump all their picks on the Chargers for Rivers.

wikimama
02-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Manning Jr is a restricted FA and Azhmah stunk because he had serious surgery the year before and hasn't been the same since.

SDFaiderHater
02-09-2006, 12:53 PM
I agree with everything until your last statement.

Free up cap space? Trading Rivers will eat up almost 1/2 of the Chargers 2006 cap space.

PR counts a little more than $3 million against the Chargers 2006 cap if he stays with the team - he costs around $12 million if he's traded.

I just think you all are over-valuing a 2 year Backup QB who hasnt had 1 meaningful game and wasnt very impressive in the few hes played in. this will soon be his third year and after that, he will either be a third year backup, or if my gut feeling happens and AJ doesnt Sign Brees, he will be an unsuccessful starting QB for a 6-10 team.

ptr77
02-09-2006, 12:56 PM
When did Merriman play outside backer in college? What did Tedy Bruschi do and Phillips play in college? Oh yeah, DE.

He is just as good of a freak as Merriman. Foley is ageing and Phillips is a good young player but not on Abes level.

It was mentioned many times before the draft that merriman had practiced olb a lot and was prepared to play that at the nex lvl, i believe he was listed as a de/olb because he had played some (not sure). This year merriman was used mostly as a stand up pass rusher and not much in coverage, abraham will almost have never dropped into coverage and will be ineffective at learning the nuances of a new position in one offseason. Not too mention he is the most overrated de in the league, him and ellis past halfway thru the year didn't even have the production osi from the giants had by himself. That and if the cap goes up the jets will keep him because they think they have something special (once the cut law they gain 10 mill + the cap could go up 10).

SDFaiderHater
02-09-2006, 12:57 PM
Well the Skins want him bad and we all know how much they can spend.

this isnt baseball where you have no limit to how much money you can spend...i rarely agree with Joe when it comes to the PR debate, but in this instance you make absolutely no sence whatsoever.

HighBoltage
02-09-2006, 01:18 PM
I just think you all are over-valuing a 2 year Backup QB who hasnt had 1 meaningful game and wasnt very impressive in the few hes played in. this will soon be his third year and after that, he will either be a third year backup, or if my gut feeling happens and AJ doesnt Sign Brees, he will be an unsuccessful starting QB for a 6-10 team.

Rivers could not be that unsuccessful. I am by no means a PR guy, but with all the talent we have and is to come Rivers can't help but be succussful. Yeah, he will make rookie mistakes. Yeah, he will throw picks. Yeah, he will make bad decisions. But when you have LT, Gates, Kmac, Eric-King Stahlman-Parker, top notch D, and a stronger oline (crossing fingers) he's not going to single-handedly lose 10 games. When PR is surrounded by that much talent and has had a couple years to digest NFL life I just don't see him causing a losing season by himself.

Now if it was Ryan Leaf on the other hand..........

Tomlinson21
02-09-2006, 01:50 PM
Rivers could not be that unsuccessful. I am by no means a PR guy, but with all the talent we have and is to come Rivers can't help but be succussful. Yeah, he will make rookie mistakes. Yeah, he will throw picks. Yeah, he will make bad decisions. But when you have LT, Gates, Kmac, Eric-King Stahlman-Parker, top notch D, and a stronger oline (crossing fingers) he's not going to single-handedly lose 10 games. When PR is surrounded by that much talent and has had a couple years to digest NFL life I just don't see him causing a losing season by himself.

Now if it was Ryan Leaf on the other hand..........
If Rivers is in fact the starter next year in a Bolts uniform: they have to look and see how Rothlesberger is utilized in the Steelers offense: run, run, and more running.

LT will have a hay day of a season if that's the case. but can you imagine the beating he's going to be getting???? LT and Burner alternating would be good to see much like Parker and Bettis...but LT and Burner are still in the prime of their careers and I can't see LT getting less playing time if this is what's going to happen with our qB situation.


Passing will be at a minimum until he gets comfortable with the offense. If Rivers is the starter...then expect to see our offense much like the Steelers offense next year.

If you want a more dynamic offense Brees must stay.

What I'm getting to is Rivers is going to struggle because he hasn't had the significant playing time in the league to lead a team right now. Other teams know this that's why the risk is still there for him in a trade. I don't think the FO is dumb enough not to realize this but on the other hand Brees is also rehabbing an arm to can ultimately make or break his future career.

Wisest decision? Keep both and play Brees and just keep your fingers crossed that he's healthy enough to keep him long term and then just keep Rivers on the sidelines for insurance.

Good back ups are hard to find nowadays.

Sanitation Man
02-09-2006, 01:59 PM
If Rivers is in fact the starter next year in a Bolts uniform: they have to look and see how Rothlesberger is utilized in the Steelers offense: run, run, and more running...

Is your observation because the Steelers don't believe Big Ben can throw well enough or that he may still be "green"? I think we are looking at 2 completely different offenses and where I believe that Rivers will need snaps to gain confidence (therefore run more at the beginning), I do not believe that he should be utilized like Big Ben as he will have a wider repertoire of weapons at his disposal and the kid can throw really well.

FYI - This is all on the assumption that Brees will not be ready for the start of the season.

HighBoltage
02-09-2006, 02:05 PM
If Rivers is in fact the starter next year in a Bolts uniform: they have to look and see how Rothlesberger is utilized in the Steelers offense: run, run, and more running.

LT will have a hay day of a season if that's the case. but can you imagine the beating he's going to be getting???? LT and Burner alternating would be good to see much like Parker and Bettis...but LT and Burner are still in the prime of their careers and I can't see LT getting less playing time if this is what's going to happen with our qB situation.


Passing will be at a minimum until he gets comfortable with the offense. If Rivers is the starter...then expect to see our offense much like the Steelers offense next year.

If you want a more dynamic offense Brees must stay.

What I'm getting to is Rivers is going to struggle because he hasn't had the significant playing time in the league to lead a team right now. Other teams know this that's why the risk is still there for him in a trade. I don't think the FO is dumb enough not to realize this but on the other hand Brees is also rehabbing an arm to can ultimately make or break his future career.

Wisest decision? Keep both and play Brees and just keep your fingers crossed that he's healthy enough to keep him long term and then just keep Rivers on the sidelines for insurance.

Good back ups are hard to find nowadays.

I agree Brees is the best option (if healthy). I'm just saying that Rivers isn't going to desimate the entire season by himself.

JohnElway
02-09-2006, 02:35 PM
http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1139292614267780.xml&coll=1

I'm not buying into this story, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss whether or not we as fans think it would be a good idea to make this move.

I personally think we shouldn't. We may need Rivers if DB doesn't recover, and I think or #1 rush defense doesn't need Abraham. The article seems to try and spin it because Brian Schottenheimer is there now trying lure Phillip into their fold.



Awesome sig !!!!

Ikeman83
02-09-2006, 05:59 PM
Are you kidding me? Dude, Rivers is the second coming of Christ... I thought you knew...

Evil47
02-09-2006, 06:17 PM
D'Brickshaw Ferguson for Rivers is prolly the best since we want to save money and need O Line help, plus Ferguson is prolly going to last alot longer than any player on the Chargers because of his "still growing and learning while owning DE's Walter Jones style" stage. Also said that his narrow shoulders is a good sign of durability and will most likely be the best O Lineman in the league for a good decade.

HighBoltage
02-09-2006, 07:11 PM
Are you kidding me? Dude, Rivers is the second coming of Christ... I thought you knew...

LoL. No kidding.

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 09:29 PM
D'Brickshaw Ferguson for Rivers is prolly the best since we want to save money and need O Line help, plus Ferguson is prolly going to last alot longer than any player on the Chargers because of his "still growing and learning while owning DE's Walter Jones style" stage. Also said that his narrow shoulders is a good sign of durability and will most likely be the best O Lineman in the league for a good decade.

That COSTS the Chargers money, not save them cap space.

If PR is on the 2006 Chargers roster, he costs the team $3+ million in cap money. If PR is traded, he costs the team $11+ million in cap space.

I'd love to have D'Brick, but the Jets would have to give up more than their first round pick to get PR.

Seller's market. :Bolt:

ptr77
02-09-2006, 09:43 PM
D'Brickshaw Ferguson for Rivers is prolly the best since we want to save money and need O Line help, plus Ferguson is prolly going to last alot longer than any player on the Chargers because of his "still growing and learning while owning DE's Walter Jones style" stage. Also said that his narrow shoulders is a good sign of durability and will most likely be the best O Lineman in the league for a good decade.

LT's in the first round are a crap shoot, not everyone that is hyped up is the next walter jones, jonathon ogden, tony boselli, or even orlando pace. These guys get picked high because they are good pass protectors and good technicians, dbrick has narrow shoulders (can't really add weight or strength when you're alot thinner than everyone else), is not even 300 pounds, and will get paid huge money. How did gallery work out for the Raiders? He was the next Ogden wasn't he? Dbrick was about 285 295 last draft, and is listed 295 this year. As we all know most schools overweigh their players to some extent just so you're opponent doesn't know how big or small he really is, dbrick hasn't gained any real weight in over a year but scouts keep saying he can add it, if he can why hasn't he? If the chargers trade Rivers it better be for a proven player and a later pick not a first rounder.

joseph04
02-09-2006, 09:47 PM
ESPN NFL Insider

John Abraham - NY Jets

Teams Interested

Redskins?
Texans?
Chargers?
Browns?

John Abraham wants out
<Feb. 8> According to The Newark Star-Ledger, Abraham has told those close to him that he wants out because the Jets continue to drag their feet regarding a long-term deal. However, new general manager Mike Tannenbaum did extend an olive branch to the three-time Pro Bowl DE on Tuesday.
"I've known John since 2000. I think he's matured as a person and improved as a player," Tannenbaum said yesterday. "I think he deserves a lot of credit for playing the entire 2005 season, all 16 games."

Th Jets are expected to place the franchise tag on Abraham this month (they have from tomorrow until Feb. 23) and then try to trade him. The franchise tender for a defensive end will be $8.3 million in 2006. The amount is determined by the average salary of the five highest-paid players at the position.

There are several teams reportedly interested in the unrestricted free agent, including the Chargers, Redskins, Browns and Texans. One possibility, according to The Star-Ledger, could be a deal with San Diego for quarterback Philip Rivers. New Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer was Rivers' quarterback coach the last two seasons.

joseph04
02-09-2006, 09:48 PM
man, i would take this trade in a heartbeat

BoltsfanNYC
02-09-2006, 09:53 PM
How about jon runyan... and Bentley... and then TAKE defence for first and third rounds a T in the second... then all talent... I think runyan would be great at right tackle bentley in the middle... Move our rt to guard and we are good depth and solid on the line.. for a year. then groom or BUY a LT next year... or draft one next year... but that would give us a great line.

guimcharger
02-09-2006, 10:06 PM
man, i would take this trade in a heartbeat

I wouldn't. We don't need another OLB because Aberham is too small to play a 3-4 DE. Anyways their is already about 50 threads on this.

bigbolthead21
02-09-2006, 10:09 PM
[quote=joseph04]man, i would take this trade in a heartbeat[/quote
hey man, when was the last time you logged on? we've been talking about this for the past week. And most of us have come to the conclusion that we don't need abraham cuz where will we put him; he's too small to play a 3-4 DE and we have enough outside pass-rushing linebackers. So there is no need for him here in san diego. I also doub't that rivers will get traded this off season cuz of the injury to brees.

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 10:13 PM
This "rumor" has been going on since week 4 of the season.

I'm moving and merging this thread into the already existing "Abraham" RUMOR thread. :)

matt bolts99
02-09-2006, 11:14 PM
all these news reports say that the chargers are interested in John Abraham. but where would we put him? my best guess would be that we put him at RDE and move Igor behing Jamal. is there something im missing? could he be a linebacker? somebody fill me in on how we would use this guy cause i can't figure it out.:Bolt:

SuperBowlBolts
02-09-2006, 11:17 PM
all these news reports say that the chargers are interested in John Abraham. but where would we put him? my best guess would be that we put him at RDE and move Igor behing Jamal. is there something im missing? could he be a linebacker? somebody fill me in on how we would use this guy cause i can't figure it out.:Bolt:
We're not going to get him, not point hes a 4-3 DE he wouldnt fit in a 3-4.

DrTran
02-09-2006, 11:18 PM
trade him again for an o-lineman, like one from the Chiefs (Herm Edwards would probably take him)

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 11:18 PM
The "rumors" have been put out by the NY press for the benefit of the Jets who have been desparate to get rid of Abraham for the past year.

Since the Chargers have no need for Abraham, there's no "truth" to the rumors.

BTW I'm merging this with the numerous previous threads dealing with this subject. :)

dserrano86
02-09-2006, 11:21 PM
Why do we even need John Abraham. We already have a great blitz defense. We need to first put a check next to our pass defense and look to pickup a top cornerback. Sam Madison would be a much better pick up than Abraham.

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 11:49 PM
Why do we even need John Abraham. We already have a great blitz defense. We need to first put a check next to our pass defense and look to pickup a top cornerback. Sam Madison would be a much better pick up than Abraham.

And an offensive left tackle or strong safety would be a much better pickup than Madison. :Bolt:

JoeMcRugby
02-09-2006, 11:52 PM
trade him again for an o-lineman, like one from the Chiefs (Herm Edwards would probably take him)

Saweet, Dr.

Let's take an $11 million cap hit on PR, sign Abraham to his $20 million bonus deal that he's been holding out for, and trade him to the Chiefs for a $20 million cap hit!! :)

That takes care of that annoying $25 million space above the cap in one fell swoop!! :o

dserrano86
02-09-2006, 11:55 PM
And an offensive left tackle or strong safety would be a much better pickup than Madison. :Bolt:

Yeah. An offensive lineman would be a great for the Chargers.

The Chargers also have holes in their pass defense. Many of the reasons why we couldnt hold leads in the 4th quarter last season.

SDFaiderHater
02-10-2006, 12:45 AM
I agree Brees is the best option (if healthy). I'm just saying that Rivers isn't going to desimate the entire season by himself.

a rookie QB can desimate a team...see Ryan LEaf, Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, David Carr, i can make a much longer list of rookies who struggle then rookies who dont.

whos to say he is any better then Ryan Leaf, Leaf may have been horrid, but he does have more TDs thrown then PR as of right now.

joseph04
02-10-2006, 12:56 AM
[quote=joseph04]man, i would take this trade in a heartbeat[/quote
hey man, when was the last time you logged on? we've been talking about this for the past week. And most of us have come to the conclusion that we don't need abraham cuz where will we put him; he's too small to play a 3-4 DE and we have enough outside pass-rushing linebackers. So there is no need for him here in san diego. I also doub't that rivers will get traded this off season cuz of the injury to brees.

thats great, you have your opinion on the matter, but i also have my own opinion so relax.

sonorajim
02-10-2006, 08:47 AM
Maybe they'll throw in a couple season tickets to the Jets so that AJ and his wife can enjoy watching our franchise QB play. If Drew isn't able to start and post wins right away, AJ will be looking for a place to watch games from after an idiotic move like that.

JoeMcRugby
02-10-2006, 08:57 AM
a rookie QB can desimate a team...see Ryan LEaf, Kyle Boller, Joey Harrington, David Carr, i can make a much longer list of rookies who struggle then rookies who dont.

whos to say he is any better then Ryan Leaf, Leaf may have been horrid, but he does have more TDs thrown then PR as of right now.

Who is a rookie QB? The Chargers don't have one.

Brees is a sixth year QB, Rivers is a third year QB and Feeley is a sixth year QB.

:confused:

Evil47
02-10-2006, 09:30 AM
LT's in the first round are a crap shoot, not everyone that is hyped up is the next walter jones, jonathon ogden, tony boselli, or even orlando pace. These guys get picked high because they are good pass protectors and good technicians, dbrick has narrow shoulders (can't really add weight or strength when you're alot thinner than everyone else), is not even 300 pounds, and will get paid huge money. How did gallery work out for the Raiders? He was the next Ogden wasn't he? Dbrick was about 285 295 last draft, and is listed 295 this year. As we all know most schools overweigh their players to some extent just so you're opponent doesn't know how big or small he really is, dbrick hasn't gained any real weight in over a year but scouts keep saying he can add it, if he can why hasn't he? If the chargers trade Rivers it better be for a proven player and a later pick not a first rounder.

I think he doesnt need the extra weight because he wont be as nimble, if I was a DE, I think I would have more trouble going through a Nimble big tall less fat fast O Lineman than a 320 Pound fat/big slow O Linemen that gets his ankles broken quicker. He injured his opponent at the senior bowl after going after it for a week of preperation. It was that Kiwunaka guy.

HighBoltage
02-10-2006, 09:47 AM
Who is a rookie QB? The Chargers don't have one.

Brees is a sixth year QB, Rivers is a third year QB and Feeley is a sixth year QB.

:confused:

Took the words right out of my mouth.

PR has shown that he can lead our team downfield to score a touchdown. He didn't blow the Denver game either. In fact he was making some pretty decent plays with exceptions of initial nervous mistakes against a very tough AFC title contender.

I seriously doubt Ryan Leaf has the competitiveness that Rivers shows. All I am saying is that if, and that's a big IF, Brees isn't ready to start at QB, then we will not automatically become a losing team. We have way too much talent all across the board to support him.

RAWDOGG
02-10-2006, 10:19 AM
Took the words right out of my mouth.

PR has shown that he can lead our team downfield to score a touchdown. He didn't blow the Denver game either. In fact he was making some pretty decent plays with exceptions of initial nervous mistakes against a very tough AFC title contender.

I seriously doubt Ryan Leaf has the competitiveness that Rivers shows. All I am saying is that if, and that's a big IF, Brees isn't ready to start at QB, then we will not automatically become a losing team. We have way too much talent all across the board to support him.

I agree also, but by playing Rivers when Brees went down just reconfirmed that the lt position needs depth. River got baksided and fubmle just like Brees has. Being a QB is probably the toughtest position on the field think about you got 3-5 300 pounders trying to get to you to rip your head off, and you are supposed to keep your poise and look for the open reciever down field. Very tough!:Beer:

So I don't blame Rivers or Brees for those blindsided hits that cause fumbles, that is purely the O-line (left side) NEED DEPTH ON THE WHOLE O-LINE:Beer:

ChampCharger
02-10-2006, 05:21 PM
I would do this trade if we got the Jets #4 pick as well.

sonorajim
02-10-2006, 06:59 PM
I agree also, but by playing Rivers when Brees went down just reconfirmed that the lt position needs depth. River got baksided and fubmle just like Brees has. Being a QB is probably the toughtest position on the field think about you got 3-5 300 pounders trying to get to you to rip your head off, and you are supposed to keep your poise and look for the open reciever down field. Very tough!:Beer:

So I don't blame Rivers or Brees for those blindsided hits that cause fumbles, that is purely the O-line (left side) NEED DEPTH ON THE WHOLE O-LINE:Beer:
Rivers blamed himself for not getting the ball out quicker. Personally, I thought he showed at least as much compsure as Brees in the same game against the same opponents. We need to draft a LT but not to expect him to start at that pos. If Oben is going to be questionable,we should look for a quality FA. It is unlikely even if we got Fergy that he would be an upgrade over Jordan in'06. Championship teams don't have a rookie playing OLT.

BoltsfanNYC
02-10-2006, 09:33 PM
rivers for abraham... SIGNED and the 4 for our 2nd round... and rivers... I would do!!or something like our 19 and rivers for a signed abraham... rivers deal reworked.. and we get the 4 and therei 2nd...thus
we get
#4
#36 and abraham for rivers BUT he must rework deal first!! so we only take a 5mil hit... at most!!
#51 and so on... they get the 19 and rivers...

KYChargersFan21
02-11-2006, 02:11 AM
Fellows im new to this but im not new to football.

Trading Rivers for Abraham would be a great move for the Chargers. Rivers is doing nothing but riding the pine pony. But then again id reconsider what i just said, if Brees arm isnt back to full strength by the first game then keeping Rivers would be wise.

If this trade does go down move Abraham to LB

JoeMcRugby
02-11-2006, 10:05 AM
Fellows im new to this but im not new to football.

Trading Rivers for Abraham would be a great move for the Chargers. Rivers is doing nothing but riding the pine pony. But then again id reconsider what i just said, if Brees arm isnt back to full strength by the first game then keeping Rivers would be wise.

If this trade does go down move Abraham to LB

Welcome to the forum, KYChargersFan21! :Beer:

But there are some questions that have to be answered if the Chargers traded their most valuable "trade bait" asset for 4-3 DE Abraham:

Who do you sit on the bench? Merriman or Foley?

What do the Chargers do with Shaun Phillips?

OLB is the most loaded position on the Chargers roster. Adding another one is overkill considering the huge needs at offensive line, the secondary and ILB.

One last thought: How are the Chargers going to do anything in free agency after absorbing an $11 million cap hit for trading Rivers? It's not as simple as "just trade him".

Mr. Heisman
02-11-2006, 10:14 PM
Fellows im new to this but im not new to football.

Trading Rivers for Abraham would be a great move for the Chargers. Rivers is doing nothing but riding the pine pony. But then again id reconsider what i just said, if Brees arm isnt back to full strength by the first game then keeping Rivers would be wise.

If this trade does go down move Abraham to LB

Won't happen, we would trade abraham! The NFL will turn into the NBA and do a three way trade we could do this trade but in the same day we trade away abraham to get a draft pick or player and trust me we could get a 3rd and something else or a 2nd rounder for him in the 07 draft! alot of teams need a good dt! Cinn, Min, Texans, Cle, Raiders, ect.! This could happen.our LB are GREAT! even in depth with the lose of two of them in the f/a but we will draft for those spots in the 5-7 round like we pick them up! on defense we are set even at depth! only DB's is where we need to address! Super Bowl here we come, but MARTY......DON'T LET UP ON THE GAS!! DRIVE THIS MAD TRUCK THROUGH EVERYONE!!! I want to see winning by atleast 14pts! I want to see all starters sitting by 4th quarter due to the fact we have won at all cost!

JoeMcRugby
02-11-2006, 11:21 PM
Won't happen, we would trade abraham! The NFL will turn into the NBA and do a three way trade we could do this trade but in the same day we trade away abraham to get a draft pick or player and trust me we could get a 3rd and something else or a 2nd rounder for him in the 07 draft! alot of teams need a good dt! Cinn, Min, Texans, Cle, Raiders, ect.! This could happen.our LB are GREAT! even in depth with the lose of two of them in the f/a but we will draft for those spots in the 5-7 round like we pick them up! on defense we are set even at depth! only DB's is where we need to address! Super Bowl here we come, but MARTY......DON'T LET UP ON THE GAS!! DRIVE THIS MAD TRUCK THROUGH EVERYONE!!! I want to see winning by atleast 14pts! I want to see all starters sitting by 4th quarter due to the fact we have won at all cost!

Darn, I missed the news.

Can you give me the link where the NFL adopted the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement, Mr. Heisman?

Unless that happened, three way trades don't work. ;)

DefenseWins
02-12-2006, 03:07 PM
I would do this trade if we got the Jets #4 pick as well.
Not I... Abrams gives the Chargers nothing they need and comes with a big contract.

The only player the Jets have worth trading for would be Vilma... package him and their #4 pick for Rivers and you might just have something AJ would go for and something that would greatly help the Chargers.

Thing is, it won't happen. Jets wouldn't give up Vilma and I doubt AJ would let Rivers go for any reason until after he sees how Drew does next year. Let's face it, Rivers is very cheap insurance against the type of situation so many teams have - no starting QB worth a hoot.

Spank
02-14-2006, 09:43 AM
I dont know if anyone has posted this rumor yet or not so here goes

From the DinoCosta Show in Denver.....

The DinoCosta Show has learned through an exclusive source that the NY Jets & San Diego Chargers are set to make a Blockbuster trade.

The Chargers will send quarterback Philip Rivers, the 4th overall pick in the 2004 NFL draft, to the Jets, in return for pass rushing defensive end John Abraham. Rivers has been stuck behind Chargers quarterback Drew Brees the last two seasons, and will be re-uniting with former Chargers asst.
Brian Schottenheimer who was recently named the Jets offensive coordinator.
Schottenheimer is planning to install an offensive system that is similar in design to the Chargers current system - a system that Rivers is comfortable in and familiar with. Abraham has been miffed that the Jets haven't given him a new contract after proving that he could play an entire 16 game schedule as he did last year. The Chargers will slide Abraham nicely into their 3-4 defense that will also feature Shawne Merriman, providing San Diego with a terrific twosome that will give the rest of the AFC West fits.
This trade makes sense for both teams and makes the Chargers "quiet" signing of quarterback A.J. Feeley last season something that was apparently done with the long term in mind. A big question for the Jets is what will they do with current quarterback Chad Pennington...should he be successful in returning from major shoulder surgery for a second time.


A little juice for a slow Tuesday.....

chargersfan1777
02-14-2006, 09:46 AM
This rumor has been beat to death!

Ikeman83
02-14-2006, 09:48 AM
Mods, please delete before I claw my eyes out. This topic is in at least two forums and 3 threads.

The-Beast
02-14-2006, 09:49 AM
yes please close

JoeMcRugby
02-14-2006, 09:50 AM
This one's been beaten to death, Spank. I'm merging it with the thread that has more than 80 posts.

Spank
02-14-2006, 10:09 AM
This one's been beaten to death, Spank. I'm merging it with the thread that has more than 80 posts.
got it.. sorry for beating the dead horse....

JoeMcRugby
02-14-2006, 10:14 AM
got it.. sorry for beating the dead horse....

No problem. :)

Where's that animated "cow getting whipped" figure? Can't remember if it was Igor or Shammy who had it. :p

DefenseWins
02-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Where's that animated "cow getting whipped" figure? Can't remember if it was Igor or Shammy who had it. :p
Thought it was Shammy that "got it" in that animation ;)

chargersfan1777
02-14-2006, 10:49 PM
The cap hit is too big for a player that we really don't need.

chargersfan1777
02-14-2006, 10:50 PM
Unless of course they make a three way trade for O-Line or a good safety. Then maybe.

JoeMcRugby
02-14-2006, 11:25 PM
Unless of course they make a three way trade for O-Line or a good safety. Then maybe.

Three way trades?

This isn't the NBA or MLB. Three way trades don't work under the salary cap rules of the NFL CBA.

chargersfan1777
02-15-2006, 07:59 AM
What I meant is trading PR for JA, but then in turn trading JA to someone else.

chargersfan1777
02-15-2006, 08:01 AM
Sorry for not making myself clear on that.

Boltz2175
02-17-2006, 10:10 AM
Just so everyone knows this is off.....Jets slapped the franchise tag on him this morning!

promiseland
02-17-2006, 11:59 PM
To many posts have been wasted on this dumb rumor.

BoltsfanNYC
02-18-2006, 12:23 AM
I think if.... Brees signed a fair contract and the jets offered the universe... we might let him go but for abraham? Maybe law before he got released.. and the 4 and a 3rd... BUT they are taking CUTLER now if he is available... at 4!

Ikeman83
02-18-2006, 12:42 AM
Cutler will definitely be available at 4. The real question isn't whether the Jet's want to trade down to pick Cutler, but how much some of the teams that need O-line help are willing to give the Jets to move up.