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-   -   Vincent Jackson Going Off Again (https://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=95784)

Bolt Sapien 10-22-2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktmjim (Post 4001487)
So what? There are 160+ recievers in the NFL. Only 5 or 6 will be on the Chagers at any one time. Worry about the ones that are here. VJ is not.

Oh, that's already being done in the GD. Maybe that's where you should be?

physicsgeek 10-22-2012 11:11 AM

Reliable WR's are replaceable, but top tier/elite/megastar WR's not so much. Especially if a QB and WR are on the same page and have that unique understanding amongst each other. Just like how Peyton and Marvin were. You saw that evident of Monday night when Jammer picked off the pass and scored his touchdown. Complete miscommunication by the WR, and plenty of people (including some on this message board) were saying, "That wouldn't happen if that was Marvin."

It remains though however, that a lot of people have a misconception about the importance about the "other" half of the WR-QB duo, even til today. Well maybe not a misconception, but although it's hard to quantify most people will give the QB 75% or greater of the credit while the WR gets 25% or less. Now in the grand scheme of the offense I don't think it's 50-50 because the QB, if he's good, will hit other targets when his go-to-guy is covered. Which you can even attribute some of the credit going to the WR for maybe drawing a double team. A good WR will draw the double team, a good QB will realize that and go elsewhere.

All of that being said, a great WR will do all of the above, and inflate a QB's #'s. You can say o-line all you want, but let's take a QB who has had an outstanding o-line nearly all of his career. Tom Brady is an NFL legend, one of the best QB's to ever play this game in my opinion. But, he is not a 50 TD per season QB without Randy Moss. Not even close to be honest. Just to be fair, the same can be said for Peyton with Reggie and Marvin. As a comparison however, compare Tom Brady's 50 TD passes to Dan Marino's 48, just to see how much more credit Randy Moss really deserved.


vs


Now VJ is not as good as Randy Moss, not even in the same tier. But that's a special tier that I'll put maybe 3 others of all-time in (Jerry Rice, Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald). VJ is right below that. The only WR's right now that can replace VJ are Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Julio Jones and A.J Green. These are the ones that can be placed on any team and dominate.

The true elite WR's one step above them are the ones I consider outright unstoppable. Fitzgerald and Megatron fit that category and also can replace VJ. They can still be shutdown, by the whole team, or that rare special corner.

The other WR's like Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Hakeem Nicks, etc. are good, but I think they are the types that need to be on the same page as the QB and fit the scheme most times.

Considering all of that we did mess up by releasing VJ, for this team, as of right now. Is this team doomed? No, but it's still another hill they must climb that they dug for themselves. They've tried to address it by getting the players mentioned, but with this QB and this scheme, and this o-line, we don't have the weapons that can do what they did in the past and that was due to what VJ brought to the table.

ImGoinToJackson 10-22-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marion butts (Post 4001398)
the vj debate is a no win situation.

If you compare meachem this year to vj this year it is said you cant compare these 2 because they are on different teams. However if the evidence were reversed you would hear how VJ wasnt a good WR and Rivers made him the WR that he is today (and therefore the money earned is thanks to rivers)

If you compare meachem this year to vj last year it is said that meachem is learning a complicated system and they arent quite on the same page yet and it took vj a few years to find his groove in this system, but VJ is putting up numbers in TB with an alleged inferior QB and is also learning a new system

if you compare last years WRs stats to this years it is said that the Oline is to blame this year even if the Oline was more banged up last year.

it is said that VJ tanked some games based on his game by game stats last year but when meachem does the same he is stretching the field opening it up for other players...also the chargers system is made for no featured WR but VJ is criticized for not putting up top 5 numbers as a charger.

if VJ has a great game he is playing a weak secondary. If meachem has a good game against the same team it means that all the VJ lovers can be quiet now.

if vjs team loses despite his great game, stats dont matter, but if meachem has a good game against a team but we lose, the offense (rivers and meachem) is starting to click.

if all else fails, vj is an egotistical prima donna drunk who was offered a fair contract here but chose to leave because hes greedy and only cares about money (if he cared about winning he wouldve stayed in San Diego with the better QB and better team, because we are light years ahead of Tampa bay...)

We also wouldnt have been able to stack our team with probowl caliber players like LeRon Mcclain, Ronnie Brown, Jackie Battle, Jared Gaither, Jarrett Johnson, Robert Meachem, and Eddie Royal which of course is complete fact and has worked out so well so far.

if even that fails...take a chill pill, youll see in december, the chargers will find their groove and VJ will be sitting at home for the playoffs.

You sir, just posted the greatest post of all time. Kudos.

Chargerfreak 10-22-2012 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImGoinToJackson (Post 4001668)
You sir, just posted the greatest post of all time. Kudos.

Kudos VJ for going over 200 YARDS and 2 TD's yesterday.

Just another day, yawn. How's that Meachem working out ?:layup

Chapin562 10-22-2012 03:01 PM

Im guessing since he played hard yesterday he is taking the next 2 games off. Either way, i have to admit i miss his big play ability

BoltBacker4Life 10-22-2012 05:08 PM

He had a great day for sure but holy crap has he gotten slow. He looked as slow as Rivers running down the sidelines. Jenkins was literally 35 yards behind him and caught him.

Where the hell did his speed go?

Chargerfreak 10-23-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoltBacker4Life (Post 4001913)
He had a great day for sure but holy crap has he gotten slow. He looked as slow as Rivers running down the sidelines. Jenkins was literally 35 yards behind him and caught him.

Where the hell did his speed go?

I wish our guys would slowly go get 216.

shibby3030 10-23-2012 07:52 PM

quality over quantity

LongTimeOCBolts 10-23-2012 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoltBacker4Life (Post 4001913)
He had a great day for sure but holy crap has he gotten slow. He looked as slow as Rivers running down the sidelines. Jenkins was literally 35 yards behind him and caught him.

Where the hell did his speed go?

That's why Rivers could hit him in stride -- okay, so at least hit his back shoulder . . . .

chargertom 10-23-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargerfreak (Post 4001692)
Kudos VJ for going over 200 YARDS and 2 TD's yesterday.

Just another day, yawn. How's that Meachem working out ?:layup

Yes. Congrats on the greats stats, in a loss.

Sweet!


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