Go Back   The Official Los Angeles Chargers Forum > Chargers Talk > General Discussions
Register FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-20-2018, 09:27 AM
AdamBuddy AdamBuddy is offline
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 242
Default

Also I don't see how people can be giving TT a hard time after he's built on paper a stacked roster and possible SB dark horse. The draft is a crap shoot a lot of the time, especially outside of the 1st round. Every team drafts Craig Magers' and Chris Watts' in the middle rounds. It just happens. The important thing is having enough hits to have a talented roster which TT has done.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:01 AM
Midtown Bolt Midtown Bolt is offline
I be humbolt
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBuddy View Post
Also I don't see how people can be giving TT a hard time after he's built on paper a stacked roster and possible SB dark horse. The draft is a crap shoot a lot of the time, especially outside of the 1st round. Every team drafts Craig Magers' and Chris Watts' in the middle rounds. It just happens. The important thing is having enough hits to have a talented roster which TT has done.
The issue from my perspective is not missing on a draft pick...that happens. The issue is reaching for a player based on need. That destroys drafts. Players like Te'o, Mager, Watt, Attaochu, Rayshawn Jenkins. It's particularly frustrating when there is superior talent at a position that is not as much of a need, and TT passes to reach for player based on need.

For example: Reaching for Mager in 2015 and passing up David Johnson, a superior talent who was a steal in the 3rd round.

And reaching for Rayshawn Jenkins last year when TE Jake Butt was still available. Jake Butt was a 1st or 2nd round talent last year who fell on the draft boards after getting injured in his final game at Michigan. He would have been the perfect pick for the Bolts in the 4th round last year! He would have gotten 1 season under Gates and Double H while rehabbing his knee, then would have been ready to take over for Gates this season. The Bolts would have had the best 1-2 punch at TE in the league - Butt is almost a carbon copy of Double H...terrific blocker and receiver. We would not be in the situation we are now...trying to figure out how to fill the huge hole made by HH's injury. TT let Butt go to the Broncos...and we will be hearing is name a lot, trust me.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:36 PM
powderblueboy powderblueboy is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Inglewood
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtown Bolt View Post
The issue from my perspective is not missing on a draft pick...that happens. The issue is reaching for a player based on need. That destroys drafts. Players like Te'o, Mager, Watt, Attaochu, Rayshawn Jenkins. It's particularly frustrating when there is superior talent at a position that is not as much of a need, and TT passes to reach for player based on need.

For example: Reaching for Mager in 2015 and passing up David Johnson, a superior talent who was a steal in the 3rd round.

And reaching for Rayshawn Jenkins last year when TE Jake Butt was still available. Jake Butt was a 1st or 2nd round talent last year who fell on the draft boards after getting injured in his final game at Michigan. He would have been the perfect pick for the Bolts in the 4th round last year! He would have gotten 1 season under Gates and Double H while rehabbing his knee, then would have been ready to take over for Gates this season. The Bolts would have had the best 1-2 punch at TE in the league - Butt is almost a carbon copy of Double H...terrific blocker and receiver. We would not be in the situation we are now...trying to figure out how to fill the huge hole made by HH's injury. TT let Butt go to the Broncos...and we will be hearing is name a lot, trust me.
You're cherry picking suspect/bad draft choices. If the 2015 draft were held today, David Johnson would be a first round pick. Most teams passed on him 3 times. Butt fell for a reason - he was injured and wouldn't play his rookie year. The Broncos are such a strong team that they could afford to have no production from their fifth round pick last year.
Denver should have drafted Desmond King.

As for Teo/Attaochu, they were not reaches & Teo kind of has panned out as at least a decent NFL player.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:23 PM
JoeMcRugby's Avatar
JoeMcRugby JoeMcRugby is offline
Pollyana-ish Homer Mod
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Rossmoor
Posts: 51,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderblueboy View Post
You're cherry picking suspect/bad draft choices. If the 2015 draft were held today, David Johnson would be a first round pick. Most teams passed on him 3 times. Butt fell for a reason - he was injured and wouldn't play his rookie year. The Broncos are such a strong team that they could afford to have no production from their fifth round pick last year.
Denver should have drafted Desmond King.

As for Teo/Attaochu, they were not reaches & Teo kind of has panned out as at least a decent NFL player.
The issue for Te'o (and to a lesser extent Attaochu) was trading up to secure them by trading the obligatory 4th rounder that TT annually gave up until recently rather than wait for the Chargers pick to make the selection. It is one thing when a pick doesn't work out - that happens, but what really hurts is when you compound it by burning another pick in the first half of the draft.

It appears that TT has learned his lesson as evidenced by his willingness to wait until Derwin James fell into his lap.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


You want analysis? Don't ask me: I'm just a Pollyanna lying idiotic know-nothing ball-watching stat boy.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:20 PM
Midtown Bolt Midtown Bolt is offline
I be humbolt
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderblueboy View Post
You're cherry picking suspect/bad draft choices. If the 2015 draft were held today, David Johnson would be a first round pick. Most teams passed on him 3 times. Butt fell for a reason - he was injured and wouldn't play his rookie year. The Broncos are such a strong team that they could afford to have no production from their fifth round pick last year.
Denver should have drafted Desmond King.

As for Teo/Attaochu, they were not reaches & Teo kind of has panned out as at least a decent NFL player.
We can disagree on whether Te'o/Attaochu were reaches, TT traded up for both, both are gone, neither played up to their draft position for the Chargers.

As for David Johnson...I don't care what other teams do, only the Chargers. When I am watching the draft and I see David Johnson still available in the 3rd round then TT picks Mager, and I wonder out loud "why?" And sure enough, as was obvious to anyone who had an inkling of the talent involved, Johnson turns out to be a far superior player. If was able to see that in 2015 plain as day in, why is not TT able to see that and why in goD's name would TT draft Mager? Remember AJ reaching for Jonas Mouton in 2011 when Justin Houston was still on the board? Reminded me of that.

I feel the same way about passing up Butt in the 4th last season and drafting Rayshawn Jenkins. I was shaking my head. Butt was a gift in the 4th round, especially for the Chargers, who were in the perfect position to accommodate his need to have a redshirt rookie season. The Bolts wouldn't have needed Butt to produce anything as a rookie. Butt would have/could have been mentored by Gates and Henry while rehabbing then been the natural successor to Gates this season. To me it made too much sense. There was no other player on the board in the 4th round last year that was in a position to help the Bolts, who would have fit into their future like Butt. Instead, we let him fall to the Broncos as an even bigger steal. Butt will be a far superior player than Jenkins will ever be. We will be getting to know him because he is going to be a star for the Broncos.

Bottom line: BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:47 PM
powderblueboy powderblueboy is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Inglewood
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtown Bolt View Post
We can disagree on whether Te'o/Attaochu were reaches, TT traded up for both, both are gone, neither played up to their draft position for the Chargers.

As for David Johnson...I don't care what other teams do, only the Chargers. When I am watching the draft and I see David Johnson still available in the 3rd round then TT picks Mager, and I wonder out loud "why?" And sure enough, as was obvious to anyone who had an inkling of the talent involved, Johnson turns out to be a far superior player. If was able to see that in 2015 plain as day in, why is not TT able to see that and why in goD's name would TT draft Mager? Remember AJ reaching for Jonas Mouton in 2011 when Justin Houston was still on the board? Reminded me of that.

I feel the same way about passing up Butt in the 4th last season and drafting Rayshawn Jenkins. I was shaking my head. Butt was a gift in the 4th round, especially for the Chargers, who were in the perfect position to accommodate his need to have a redshirt rookie season. The Bolts wouldn't have needed Butt to produce anything as a rookie. Butt would have/could have been mentored by Gates and Henry while rehabbing then been the natural successor to Gates this season. To me it made too much sense. There was no other player on the board in the 4th round last year that was in a position to help the Bolts, who would have fit into their future like Butt. Instead, we let him fall to the Broncos as an even bigger steal. Butt will be a far superior player than Jenkins will ever be. We will be getting to know him because he is going to be a star for the Broncos.

Bottom line: BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE
No team drafts that way. Which Charger pick this year was the best available player after the first round? You can go back and look at the record of any GM and you'll see that he left a really good player on the board for trash.

Butt is not guaranteed to be a good player in the NFL. So far, he's done nothing, & i'd be happy if that level of performance continues.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:58 PM
Midtown Bolt Midtown Bolt is offline
I be humbolt
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by powderblueboy View Post
No team drafts that way. Which Charger pick this year was the best available player after the first round? You can go back and look at the record of any GM and you'll see that he left a really good player on the board for trash.

Butt is not guaranteed to be a good player in the NFL. So far, he's done nothing, & i'd be happy if that level of performance continues.
Yeah, wait until he (Butt) starts making plays for the Broncos.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:00 PM
Xenos's Avatar
Xenos Xenos is offline
Madness? This is Chargers
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtown Bolt View Post
We can disagree on whether Te'o/Attaochu were reaches, TT traded up for both, both are gone, neither played up to their draft position for the Chargers.

As for David Johnson...I don't care what other teams do, only the Chargers. When I am watching the draft and I see David Johnson still available in the 3rd round then TT picks Mager, and I wonder out loud "why?" And sure enough, as was obvious to anyone who had an inkling of the talent involved, Johnson turns out to be a far superior player. If was able to see that in 2015 plain as day in, why is not TT able to see that and why in goD's name would TT draft Mager? Remember AJ reaching for Jonas Mouton in 2011 when Justin Houston was still on the board? Reminded me of that.

I feel the same way about passing up Butt in the 4th last season and drafting Rayshawn Jenkins. I was shaking my head. Butt was a gift in the 4th round, especially for the Chargers, who were in the perfect position to accommodate his need to have a redshirt rookie season. The Bolts wouldn't have needed Butt to produce anything as a rookie. Butt would have/could have been mentored by Gates and Henry while rehabbing then been the natural successor to Gates this season. To me it made too much sense. There was no other player on the board in the 4th round last year that was in a position to help the Bolts, who would have fit into their future like Butt. Instead, we let him fall to the Broncos as an even bigger steal. Butt will be a far superior player than Jenkins will ever be. We will be getting to know him because he is going to be a star for the Broncos.

Bottom line: BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE
I going to address the bolded part.

1) Teo and Attaochu were both considered late 1st round/ early 2nd round picks. They went right where they were supposed to. The problem was that they didn't work out for us, and that we traded up for them. But they were not reaches.

2) You wanted to know why we passed on David Johnson? Seriously? We just traded up for Melvin Gordon in the first round, there was no way that we were getting another running back. If you're going to play the hindsight game and lament not picking someone in the 3rd round, then go with someone like Kwon Alexander, Shaq Mason, Max Garcia, or Grady Jarrett.

2) The difference between Butts and Jenkins is that the latter actually played last season. In other words, we don't know what will happen with both. Maybe you'll "eventually" be right about Butts. But as it is at this moment, you're currently wrong about Butts being the better player.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Unleash the Rivers!!!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:04 PM
Xenos's Avatar
Xenos Xenos is offline
Madness? This is Chargers
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtown Bolt View Post
Yeah, wait until he (Butt) starts making plays for the Broncos.
Whenever that may be.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Unleash the Rivers!!!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:06 PM
Xenos's Avatar
Xenos Xenos is offline
Madness? This is Chargers
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBoltFan View Post
Mager is not Carson Wentz... Its not so much the school IMO, but the draft position. If Mager was drafted in the 5th (where he prob still would have sat) instead of the 3rd, nobody would bat an eye at this news.
The point is that TT went with a raw prospect with a high upside too early. It's not necessarily a bad thing to go with high upside players (even from a small school), but you should reserve those after the first three rounds. The 4th through 7th is usually when you take more risks.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Unleash the Rivers!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 AM.


© 2018 Los Angeles Chargers. All Rights Reserved.