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  #11  
Old 11-14-2016, 09:13 PM
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Rivers2Gates49 Rivers2Gates49 is offline
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Originally Posted by BoltBacker4Life View Post
HOF, I would say no but saying he's not elite is laughable.
I would say he falls just a step below elite.

Elite QB's of this era are Roethlisberger, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning.

Rivers is one rung below those guys IMO.

He is very, very good. But not elite until he has the postseason success of those guys.
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  #12  
Old 11-15-2016, 04:01 AM
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When you are one of eight to ten people on the planet who can do what Rivers can do, that makes him elite. 300 career TDs and he's not elite
If up to 10 guys are elite, then you are saying nearly 1/3 of the league's starting QB's are.

That's being quite a bit generous, is it not ?

He's been consistently good, great at times. But not clutch, not elite and not HOF caliber.

PS - Vinny Testaverde had 275 career TD's and is currently #10 on the all time passing yards list. How far off was he from being elite ?
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the Pats cheated, got 4 rings... good for them... we cheated and got 2 rings... yay for us!...

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Last edited by chopper31; 11-15-2016 at 04:31 AM..
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2016, 04:03 AM
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Philip Rivers:

0 time All-Pro
0 time NFL MVP
0 time Offensive Player of the Year
4 career playoff wins
A number of game winning drives you just may need a second hand to count them on

Any questions ?
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the Pats cheated, got 4 rings... good for them... we cheated and got 2 rings... yay for us!...

i like that my franchise will do whatever it takes to win, and if all they get is a slap on the hand for it in return, more power to them...

Last edited by chopper31; 11-15-2016 at 04:23 AM..
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper31 View Post
If up to 10 guys are elite, then you are saying nearly 1/3 of the league's starting QB's are.

That's being quite a bit generous, is it not ?

He's been consistently good, great at times. But not clutch, not elite and not HOF caliber.

PS - Vinny Testaverde had 275 career TD's and is currently #10 on the all time passing yards list. How far off was he from being elite ?
No, it's not being generous. I seriously do not understand how someone cannot be considered elite at what they do when maybe ten people out of billions on the planet can do what you do. Once again, would it be too generous to say the tenth best guitarist in the world is elite? And it's not 1/3 Chop.....how many backup QBs, how many QBs don't make the NFL who try etc.

PS- Vinny took 21 years to throw 275, PR has 301 in 10 + of being a starter
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BoltBacker4Life View Post
No, it's not being generous. I seriously do not understand how someone cannot be considered elite at what they do when maybe ten people out of billions on the planet can do what you do. Once again, would it be too generous to say the tenth best guitarist in the world is elite? And it's not 1/3 Chop.....how many backup QBs, how many QBs don't make the NFL who try etc.

PS- Vinny took 21 years to throw 275, PR has 301 in 10 + of being a starter
I think you are really sugar coating things by comparing him to the "entire planet".

Anyone who is a real QB is in the NFL, and we're talking about who is an elite NFL QB.

Sorry, but I don't consider being within the top 1/3 of the subject league as being elite (amongst that crowd). But if you want to say he is an elite QB amongst all of humanity, sure I can agree to that. Anyone who ever made an NFL roster would fit that bill...
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the Pats cheated, got 4 rings... good for them... we cheated and got 2 rings... yay for us!...

i like that my franchise will do whatever it takes to win, and if all they get is a slap on the hand for it in return, more power to them...
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper31 View Post
I think you are really sugar coating things by comparing him to the "entire planet".

Anyone who is a real QB is in the NFL, and we're talking about who is an elite NFL QB.

Sorry, but I don't consider being within the top 1/3 of the subject league as being elite (amongst that crowd). But if you want to say he is an elite QB amongst all of humanity, sure I can agree to that. Anyone who ever made an NFL roster would fit that bill...
And I think your eyes greatly underestimating how good he is. Okay, forget the entire planet, he's one of ten people out of 300+ million people in America who can do what's he does.

He will finish in the top 5 of many statistical categories with nothing but nobodies to throw to. Yes, he's had Gates but he's never once had a game changing WR like Antonio Brown, Megatron etc. One of his best seasons he threw to 17 different receivers. I think you and others are blind to how hard that is. This game is all about timing and trust and he's trusting no names.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to say he's good but not elite because he hasn't been voted to all pro etc, sobeit
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper31 View Post
Philip Rivers:

0 time All-Pro
0 time NFL MVP
0 time Offensive Player of the Year
4 career playoff wins
A number of game winning drives you just may need a second hand to count them on

Any questions ?
There are some factors that get mixed in here though. Your anger at 8 wins in 2 seasons so far is one of the factors. Look at coaching and players/teams Rivers has been on. Not an excuse, just factors.

There is no arguing that Rodgers is elite. How's he looking this year ? Cam ? Dab me.

Any Questions ?

Last edited by Chargerfreak; 11-15-2016 at 05:53 AM..
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2016, 05:52 AM
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He's one of the best currently playing. He is not one of the best all-time.
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2016, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BoltBacker4Life View Post
And I think your eyes greatly underestimating how good he is. Okay, forget the entire planet, he's one of ten people out of 300+ million people in America who can do what's he does.

He will finish in the top 5 of many statistical categories with nothing but nobodies to throw to. Yes, he's had Gates but he's never once had a game changing WR like Antonio Brown, Megatron etc. One of his best seasons he threw to 17 different receivers. I think you and others are blind to how hard that is. This game is all about timing and trust and he's trusting no names.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to say he's good but not elite because he hasn't been voted to all pro etc, sobeit
We both agree the HOF is likely not in his future.

The disagreement is what makes a QB elite. There is no textbook definition, and clearly we have different opinions on what that definition is. If you ask me though, someone who has been in the elite class throughout their career makes the HOF. Rivers won't make the HOF, but he did win the Comeback Player of the Year award within the prime years of his career. What exactly did he come back from ? A subpar season ? It sure wasn't an injury.

I don't buy the whole lack of receivers thing. First off he has had plenty to work with over the years. More importantly, Elite QB's make names for their receivers, not vice versa. Look at Warren Moon for example. He turned Drew Hill, Haywood Jeffires, Ernest Givins and Curtis Duncan into Pro Bowlers. He also retired as #3 on the list of all time passing leaders, which has since been surpassed by more recent QB's as the game has evolved.

Wherever Rivers ends up statically when he hangs it up, will be passed by several current players within 10 years, as the new era of QB's in the current pass happy league accumulate their years of stats.
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the Pats cheated, got 4 rings... good for them... we cheated and got 2 rings... yay for us!...

i like that my franchise will do whatever it takes to win, and if all they get is a slap on the hand for it in return, more power to them...
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2016, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by chopper31 View Post
We both agree the HOF is likely not in his future.

The disagreement is what makes a QB elite. There is no textbook definition, and clearly we have different opinions on what that definition is. If you ask me though, someone who has been in the elite class throughout their career makes the HOF. Rivers won't make the HOF, but he did win the Comeback Player of the Year award within the prime years of his career. What exactly did he come back from ? A subpar season ? It sure wasn't an injury.

I don't buy the whole lack of receivers thing. First off he has had plenty to work with over the years. More importantly, Elite QB's make names for their receivers, not vice versa. Look at Warren Moon for example. He turned Drew Hill, Haywood Jeffires, Ernest Givins and Curtis Duncan into Pro Bowlers. He also retired as #3 on the list of all time passing leaders, which has since been surpassed by more recent QB's as the game has evolved.

Wherever Rivers ends up statically when he hangs it up, will be passed by several current players within 10 years, as the new era of QB's in the current pass happy league accumulate their years of stats.
Warren Moon, great example. All he did is throw the ball. He threw the ball more in a running era than most teams do in today's throwing era. Remember the run and shoot????

So I guess Montana made Rice and Taylor? I guess Manning made Wayne and Harrison? I guess Big Ben made A Brown and Stafford made Megatron????? Come on Chop, you're way better than that. Yes, a QB can help the progression of a WR but if you're going to tell me that Inman would be just as good as Dez if he actually had an elite QB, then we're just going to have to stop right here.

And you say Rivers has had plenty to work with.....who? His second favorite toy they let go in VJ. Allen has been hurt more than he's been healthy. Name me one other WR he's had that would be a #1 on any other team in the league. His career has been surrounded by second, third, fourth tier WRs along with UDFA. For some odd reason, management has decided he doesn't need a true #1. Maybe it's because he's done so much with so little over his career that management thinks like you.....he's elite so he can make a no name WR better.
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