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  #51  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by physicsgeek View Post
But there can only be one winner each year. Having a loaded roster however makes you more than likely to be in contention the following years, it's hard to repeat, but you'll still have an solid core.

Like I mentioned before though, plenty of that Giants roster were incredible players. Umenyiora was one of the best and still one of the better pass rushers in the league, Plexico was a monster WR and almost commanded double teams each down, Brandon Jacobs was a terrifying RB to tackle, Steve Smith although a rookie was one of Eli's reliable targets the time he was in NY (they got lucky Cruz emerged after they let Smith walk), Strahan was still one of the best DE's in the league, Antonio Pierce was a force at LB, solid secondary with Sam Madison leading it, etc.
Would the loss of any one of the Giants players posed a significant risk to their winning the Super Bowl?

Outside of Eli, could they have won if one of the stars you mentioned had left the year before?
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  #52  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:29 PM
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Jackson chose to leave. That's his decision. That's why its called Free-Agency. Him and his agents had a part in this. Jackson chose to drink and get arrested. Then made a choice to drive with no liscence. Jackson chose to hold out. Jackson chose to participate in the lawsuit during the lockout.Jackson chose to play halfway, and give up on plays. Just because Jackson had a monster game, doesn't mean that it happened every game. What if Floyd, or Gates, or Rivers had a monster game, and yet still lost, there would be fans saying exactly what Tom is saying. That it wouldn't matter cause its still a loss.
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  #53  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:29 PM
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Tom, to be fair the Yankees plan was going to work. Then unfortunately the fans ruined everything by booing.
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  #54  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:30 PM
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What if Floyd, or Gates, or Rivers had a monster game, and yet still lost, there would be fans saying exactly what Tom is saying. That it wouldn't matter cause its still a loss.
I believe Gates broke an NFL record against the Falcons. That thread died in less than a day.
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  #55  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by chargertom View Post
I believe Gates broke an NFL record against the Falcons. That thread died in less than a day.
Losing Jackson is the same as the John Jefferson situation 30 years ago. The only difference is that there is not a Wes Chandler on our horizon.
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  #56  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:39 PM
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I think we arent even good at accumulating stats anymore. I mean a loss is a loss. I care less about numbers. But in last Mondays loss our offense basically fell asleep in the second half. Our defense got smoked. When we lose, we really lose
It happens.

Baltimore is a pretty good team. They're dealing with some injury issues, but they're still a dangerous club.

They got their collective butts kicked today by 30 points. THIRTY points!
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  #57  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:42 PM
physicsgeek physicsgeek is offline
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Originally Posted by chargertom View Post
Would the loss of any one of the Giants players posed a significant risk to their winning the Super Bowl?

Outside of Eli, could they have won if one of the stars you mentioned had left the year before?
Absolutely. If Umenyiora, Jacobs, Strahan, Plex or Pierce went down they may not have been in that Super Bowl, those guys were key in their run. Jacobs in 2007 was a monster for short yardage first down pick-ups.

There's a reason why plenty of teams for awhile tried to find "the next Umenyiora in the draft (now it's the next JPP)."

Strahan was one of the most dominant DE's of all-time and was still a monster that final year.

Remember, the Giants were 9-1 the following year before Plex mid-season left and 3-4 (including play-off lost) after. It took some time before they recovered.

Also JPP was finally able to cover the hole Strahan left.

Last edited by physicsgeek; 10-21-2012 at 08:46 PM..
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  #58  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by guerro619 View Post
Jackson chose to leave. That's his decision. That's why its called Free-Agency. Him and his agents had a part in this. Jackson chose to drink and get arrested. Then made a choice to drive with no liscence. Jackson chose to hold out. Jackson chose to participate in the lawsuit during the lockout.Jackson chose to play halfway, and give up on plays. Just because Jackson had a monster game, doesn't mean that it happened every game. What if Floyd, or Gates, or Rivers had a monster game, and yet still lost, there would be fans saying exactly what Tom is saying. That it wouldn't matter cause its still a loss.
And how many games have we won because Rivers, Jackson, Gates, or LT had monster games?

I should word it differently, although similarly. One player may not guarantee a win, nor really win games, but when they put up #'s it helps the team more than hurts. Maybe even elevates them to wins.

Last edited by physicsgeek; 10-21-2012 at 08:50 PM..
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  #59  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:53 PM
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Remember, the Giants were 9-1 the following year before Plex mid-season left and 3-4 (including play-off lost) after. It took some time before they recovered.
Hopefully it works out that way for us again. I remember the big holes that guys have left on our roster when they've left. And it seems that sooner or later, someone steps up to replace them.

Take Gaither for MM, example.

It's just how football is.

Since Merriman, we haven't really had a dominant, disruptive pass rusher. But now we have Ingram, and some others who could make us good up front again.
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  #60  
Old 10-21-2012, 09:16 PM
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Hopefully it works out that way for us again. I remember the big holes that guys have left on our roster when they've left. And it seems that sooner or later, someone steps up to replace them.

Take Gaither for MM, example.

It's just how football is.

Since Merriman, we haven't really had a dominant, disruptive pass rusher. But now we have Ingram, and some others who could make us good up front again.
Definitely. However, timing is also very important.
-Sometimes you'll have an awesome line, but horrible QB.
-Sometimes awesome wideout, horrible QB
-Maybe awesome QB, horrible WR's.
And etc.

Now if they do get another top tier WR, will it be at a time that's too late for PR?

Atleast they were able to pick-up Gaither though, now only if he can stay healthy.

However, I think now the timing is right to draft defense. As of right now, they have some awesome defensive ends in Reyes and Luiget that move/collapse the pocket and even rush the passer, Ingram has a lot of potential and next season will no longer be a rookie, Butler is becoming a monster, and Weddle is already an elite safety. If they don't extend SP or Barnes hopefully they'll get an awesome pass rusher in this draft. Bonus if that pass rusher was also a good all-around defender. Then they can really have fun with Ingram.

If they get a good corner, maybe even get lucky with a shutdown corner this defense can be dominant. But they'd have to make sure to sign them to keep them on the team! Hopefully we don't lose any picks to this "sticky substance" thing.

In the end, "It's ok to make mistakes, as long as you learn from it." You don't learn by always being right afterall. Yeah, VJ is long gone and but we can also look back and wonder or sulk a little.
.
.
.
Let's get some defense now though!

Last edited by physicsgeek; 10-21-2012 at 09:20 PM..
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