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  #91  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:41 AM
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Green will not be the answer to Hunter.

I would've re-signed Gates and still had an answer at pass-catching TE, but we have no idea what agates wanted. His last deal that just expired was $6m per, and we couldn't come close to that.

Did Gates come back to the team and say, "vet minimum plus incentives if I produce?"

We'll never know, but I'd assume for the PR alone after HH's injury, the Chargers would've taken it (vet minimum). But he's not worth $5m a year guaranteed. It's horrible to say, but he's not. We're already overpaying a few guys as it is for 2018.

But like I said, have Mike Williams learn that playbook. Makes too much sense.

Either way, I'm not concerned. I'm not going to say that Benjamin and TWill are world beaters but they've produced and know the offense. Keenan Allen is legit and Gordon is going to have an increased role in passing game too.
  #92  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by El Tee View Post
Green will not be the answer to Hunter.

I would've re-signed Gates and still had an answer at pass-catching TE, but we have no idea what agates wanted. His last deal that just expired was $6m per, and we couldn't come close to that.

Did Gates come back to the team and say, "vet minimum plus incentives if I produce?"

We'll never know, but I'd assume for the PR alone after HH's injury, the Chargers would've taken it (vet minimum). But he's not worth $5m a year guaranteed. It's horrible to say, but he's not. We're already overpaying a few guys as it is for 2018.

But like I said, have Mike Williams learn that playbook. Makes too much sense.

Either way, I'm not concerned. I'm not going to say that Benjamin and TWill are world beaters but they've produced and know the offense. Keenan Allen is legit and Gordon is going to have an increased role in passing game too.


As to the bold above it seems a bit early to be determining much of anything about how the Bolts staff adjusts to the loss of HH, Green might very well end up as the TE with most plays played.

Gates is a shell of what he once was, and it appears that TT recognizes that and has moved on.
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  #93  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:13 AM
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Green isn't the prolific pass catcher that the Bolts had in Gates, or have in HH, but he catches well enough to keep a defence honest.
I'd love to be able to believe this, but what is this idea based on? He's averaged 10 catches a season over 7 seasons. This tells me pretty unequivocally that the guy is a non-factor in the passing game.

Suggesting he's suddenly going to provide even 50% of what Henry/Gates gave us in that area feels to me like when people were suggesting that Robert Meachum would be OK to replace Vincent Jackson's production or that Donald Brown would be able to start being a receiving threat out of the backfield. If a guy's entire career says one thing, I have a hard time believing it's going to change just because we need it to.

Given when Henry got hurt we might not be able to do better that Green, but he won't come anywhere close to providing what Henry did. The offense will have to make a significant adjustment.
  #94  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:37 AM
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I'd love to be able to believe this, but what is this idea based on? He's averaged 10 catches a season over 7 seasons. This tells me pretty unequivocally that the guy is a non-factor in the passing game.

Suggesting he's suddenly going to provide even 50% of what Henry/Gates gave us in that area feels to me like when people were suggesting that Robert Meachum would be OK to replace Vincent Jackson's production or that Donald Brown would be able to start being a receiving threat out of the backfield. If a guy's entire career says one thing, I have a hard time believing it's going to change just because we need it to.

Given when Henry got hurt we might not be able to do better that Green, but he won't come anywhere close to providing what Henry did. The offense will have to make a significant adjustment.

How often was he targeted seems to be a stat that should be included with the 10catches/season stat.....to be fair.


Green will never be the primary target, but defences will need to cover him, or Wiz will have no issue exploiting that mistake. (this is where you tell me Green can't catch the ball, even wide open)
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  #95  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by frozendisc View Post
How often was he targeted seems to be a stat that should be included with the 10catches/season stat.....to be fair.


Green will never be the primary target, but defences will need to cover him, or Wiz will have no issue exploiting that mistake. (this is where you tell me Green can't catch the ball, even wide open)
Green, if healthy will get more snaps than any other Chargers TE this season. Hr's our best TE blocker and catches the ball well. He was drafted as a potential receiver and rebuilt himself as a blocker, did a pretty good job of it too. I guarantee Whis likes blocking TEs who can catch, that's what Whiz played in the NFL.
He will not get the predominance of targets, that goes to KA, Ty Will, Mike Will, MGIII. He is a receiving option that meets our needs during Hunter's absence.
  #96  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:42 AM
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Green, if healthy will get more snaps than any other Chargers TE this season. Hr's our best TE blocker and catches the ball well. He was drafted as a potential receiver and rebuilt himself as a blocker, did a pretty good job of it too. I guarantee Whis likes blocking TEs who can catch, that's what Whiz played in the NFL.
He will not get the predominance of targets, that goes to KA, Ty Will, Mike Will, MGIII. He is a receiving option that meets our needs during Hunter's absence.
Pretty much sums up how I view Green in this offence. Asserting Green can't catch, or catch well enough, is ridiculous imv. As I said earlier, don't cover him and just watch Wiz/Rivers exploit that.
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  #97  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:47 AM
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It is SO early in the process to be trying to determine the ultimate value of the TE's we have. I can guarantee you that TT will add and subtract as we progress up to and through August. Acting like we're set and this is all there is at the position just seems silly.

Plus I can't shake the feeling that we are going to see Cantrell in that mix by the end of camp. Lots of time and lots of possibilities right now.
  #98  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by frozendisc View Post
How often was he targeted seems to be a stat that should be included with the 10catches/season stat.....to be fair.
The two stats are generally related. More effective receiving threats tend to get more targets, less effective ones less so.

Quote:
Green will never be the primary target, but defences will need to cover him, or Wiz will have no issue exploiting that mistake. (this is where you tell me Green can't catch the ball, even wide open)
Of course defenses will have to cover him. They won't let him run untouched like the guy from Necessary Roughness. But his history suggests they can do this with average linebackers. They won't necessarily need to use skilled coverage linebackers or safeties like they did with Henry/Gates.

This means that instead of creating a matchup problem and gaining an advantage at the position, we're now on equal footing or even at a disadvantage at the position compared to the defense. The offense will have to adjust to this reality.

I agree that if we don't add another TE Green will likely play the most snaps of our TEs. And blocking TEs aren't useless, maybe he helps us get our running game going. But the simple fact is that Green has been a total non-factor in the passing game for his entire 7 year career. Whether it's his hands, his ability to get open, his ability to read the defense, etc. that's the way it has been up to this point. I don't expect that to suddenly change and be significantly better.

But hey, this is the time of the year for optimism. We can all hope for the best because we can only go with the guys we've got.
  #99  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by packman76 View Post
The two stats are generally related. More effective receiving threats tend to get more targets, less effective ones less so.

Of course defenses will have to cover him. They won't let him run untouched like the guy from Necessary Roughness. But his history suggests they can do this with average linebackers. They won't necessarily need to use skilled coverage linebackers or safeties like they did with Henry/Gates.

This means that instead of creating a matchup problem and gaining an advantage at the position, we're now on equal footing or even at a disadvantage at the position compared to the defense. The offense will have to adjust to this reality.

I agree that if we don't add another TE Green will likely play the most snaps of our TEs. And blocking TEs aren't useless, maybe he helps us get our running game going. But the simple fact is that Green has been a total non-factor in the passing game for his entire 7 year career. Whether it's his hands, his ability to get open, his ability to read the defense, etc. that's the way it has been up to this point. I don't expect that to suddenly change and be significantly better.

But hey, this is the time of the year for optimism. We can all hope for the best because we can only go with the guys we've got.
His low target numbers probably have more to do with playing on a team with better receivers. Green was the #5 target at Den last year. That won't change much here.
  #100  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:51 AM
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So is the idea supposed to be that TT was uninformed when he signed Virgil very early during the signing period ?

CMB knows better ?

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