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  #101  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:05 PM
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Al "T.D." Bundy Al "T.D." Bundy is offline
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Originally Posted by DGINSD View Post
I gotta laugh at those saying Brees should have been kept, Brees was downright awful when he was here, people do tend to forget that, couple that with the shredded shoulder and he's an easy guy to let go. The only problem I have with it is telling the guy his job is secure and then doing it.
Brees was awful his first couple of years here, the entire team was.

Whatever it was, the drafting of Rivers, flipping of a switch, I don't know, but eventually he figured it out. In 2004 he led a team NOBODY gave a shot to to a 12-4 record, a Pro-Bowl, and Comeback Player of the Year.

Sorry, that's not "awful".

He also made the Pro Bowl in 2005 and had the 10th best passer rating in the NFL. The team finished 9-7, a record the 2012 Chargers would be THRILLED to end up with, given the course of the season.

I wholeheartedly agree with the decision to let Brees go. I'm not second guessing that. But the idea that he was let go because he was no good is preposterous and patently untrue. It was his injury. And rightfully so.
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Last edited by Al "T.D." Bundy; 11-22-2012 at 10:08 PM..
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  #102  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Al "T.D." Bundy View Post
Brees was awful his first couple of years here, the entire team was.

Whatever it was, the drafting of Rivers, flipping of a switch, I don't know, but eventually he figured it out. In 2004 he led a team NOBODY gave a shot to to a 12-4 record, a Pro-Bowl, and Comeback Player of the Year.

Sorry, that's not "awful".

He also made the Pro Bowl in 2005 and had the 10th best passer rating in the NFL. The team finished 9-7, a record the 2012 Chargers would be THRILLED to end up with, given the course of the season.

I wholeheartedly agree with the decision to let Brees go. I'm not second guessing that. But the idea that he was let go because he was no good is preposterous and patently untrue. It was his injury. And rightfully so.
I heard Brees on the Jim Rome radio show a few years back saying when the Chargers drafted Rivers it lit a fire in him to show the Chargers that they were wrong to not have faith in him. It actually made me kind of mad that he wasn't able to motivate himself without that outside pressure. He seems to have had a chip on his shoulder ever since then that keeps him going. I don't know that he would have ever been the player he is today without the adversity he's overcome.
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  #103  
Old 11-23-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Al "T.D." Bundy View Post
Brees was awful his first couple of years here, the entire team was.

Whatever it was, the drafting of Rivers, flipping of a switch, I don't know, but eventually he figured it out. In 2004 he led a team NOBODY gave a shot to to a 12-4 record, a Pro-Bowl, and Comeback Player of the Year.

Sorry, that's not "awful".

He also made the Pro Bowl in 2005 and had the 10th best passer rating in the NFL. The team finished 9-7, a record the 2012 Chargers would be THRILLED to end up with, given the course of the season.

I wholeheartedly agree with the decision to let Brees go. I'm not second guessing that. But the idea that he was let go because he was no good is preposterous and patently untrue. It was his injury. And rightfully so.
Actually I said it was performance coupled with the shredded shoulder, and the only reason performance was even mentioned was in objection to the though it was a no brainier, by some, to keep him shredded shoulder and all, 1st rounder in the wings. We're talking about a guy that played bad enough to be benched in favor of Flutie.
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  #104  
Old 11-23-2012, 08:41 AM
muffindonut72 muffindonut72 is offline
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Originally Posted by LKincheloe View Post
I heard Brees on the Jim Rome radio show a few years back saying when the Chargers drafted Rivers it lit a fire in him to show the Chargers that they were wrong to not have faith in him. It actually made me kind of mad that he wasn't able to motivate himself without that outside pressure. He seems to have had a chip on his shoulder ever since then that keeps him going. I don't know that he would have ever been the player he is today without the adversity he's overcome.
I absolutely agree with you on this. I can't exactly blame the Chargers for drafting another QB, but it would have been nice if it hadn't come to that. Having Brees as a starting QB and using those picks acquired in the Eli deal to draft players in other areas of need, could have only helped this team.
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  #105  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DGINSD View Post
Actually I said it was performance coupled with the shredded shoulder, and the only reason performance was even mentioned was in objection to the though it was a no brainier, by some, to keep him shredded shoulder and all, 1st rounder in the wings. We're talking about a guy that played bad enough to be benched in favor of Flutie.
Right, that was when the whole team was garbage.

If he was so bad then why did he get franchised tagged after the first year that Rivers was drafted?

I acknowledged he was bad but he obviously turned it around. A lot of rookie QB's don't play great in their first or even second seasons. It's a hard position to learn. And he wasn't exactly a blue chipper like RGIII or Luck.

That said, I think the idea that his "performance" can be considered a liability is long gone. And I don't think it had a whole lot to do with the decision to let him walk. His shoulder, and Rivers in the wings, were the primary and overriding considerations. IMO.
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  #106  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Al "T.D." Bundy View Post
That said, I think the idea that his "performance" can be considered a liability is long gone. And I don't think it had a whole lot to do with the decision to let him walk. His shoulder, and Rivers in the wings, were the primary and overriding considerations. IMO.
Agree 100%. With Rivers holding the clipboard, Brees' injury made it pretty much a no brainer to let him go.
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  #107  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:37 AM
THORjr. THORjr. is offline
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Originally Posted by guerro619 View Post
It was a huge risk to get Brees. He had a major surgery that most QB's in the past wouldn't have come back. The Saints had nothing to lose. Like the saints fan said, it was a gamble. It would have been easier to draft a player that you can coach in your system. Brees struggled his first couple of years with NO. I find it funny how you reference a qb that was before Brees, instead of one that was drafted In 06 the year Brees went to NO as ayoung example. Someone like leinart, or young.
Im still not understanding what the risk was? What did they have to lose? What did the Chargers have to lose, other than money? Were either giving up draft picks for him?
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  #108  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:45 AM
THORjr. THORjr. is offline
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Originally Posted by charger1_sj View Post
Another ridicuous argument. The Saints had to guarantee Brees gobs of money with no guarantee he would even ever be able to throw the ball. Huge gamble on their part with huge risks. Huge risks lead to huge rewards only when they work out. The risk the Saints took was even bigger than drafting a Qb in the first.
Its not ridiculous at all.
I was comparing one type of risk vs another.

One you risk losing gobs of money.
The other you risk losing gobs of money and a good first round draft pick.

Winners take risks that work out.
Winners see things in some players that most others dont.

I know its not on anywhere near the level but I have been involved in Baseball for decades now. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen as a player manager is people in the wrong posistions. They play where they want to, or think they are good. But often I have moved some around and it worked out wayyyyyyyyy better.

Good Gm's, coaches and managers in baseball see these things and thats why they win, bottom line. I personally took quite a few perennial losing teams in various leagues to championships.
The first league I played in as an adult, our team won one game. The offseason, so to speak, we got switched manager/coach, he made 3 key moves and we made the playoffs with the same players the following season.

Its what they do. Proof is in the puddding, we have been struggling in the weakest division in football, imagine our record had we been playing two games a year against Balt and Pitts.
Of our 4 wins, 2 against the Chiefs, maybe the worst team in the NFL, and the waiders,,,,

we could easily be 1-9. I mean seriously, take out those two chiefs games, what is our record ? 2-6.
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  #109  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:50 AM
THORjr. THORjr. is offline
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Originally Posted by dorotheajn View Post
Money and draft picks fade when you are playing for the biggest stakes there is - survival !

The number of people living in NOLA and in SELA was way down during those first post-katrina years and there were very real discussions on whether the area could even support an NFL team. Bottom line - they needed to sell tickets

If the signing of Brees had been a bust of the same proportion as the Phins signing of Culpepper, those fears could very well have been realized and the city would have lost its team.

When Brees were signed, the way he approached the city and went to work - both as the QB and leader of the team and even more importantly as a leader in the community, won over everyone. The Saints sold out every season ticket before the season even began and have had a +40000 waiting list since then.

So yes - Saints took an incredible gamble
I was shocked when the Fins sicked Culpepper. My 9 year old nephew knew he wouldnt do well.
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  #110  
Old 11-23-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by THORjr. View Post
Its not ridiculous at all.
I was comparing one type of risk vs another.

One you risk losing gobs of money.
The other you risk losing gobs of money and a good first round draft pick.

Winners take risks that work out.
Winners see things in some players that most others dont.

I know its not on anywhere near the level but I have been involved in Baseball for decades now. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen as a player manager is people in the wrong posistions. They play where they want to, or think they are good. But often I have moved some around and it worked out wayyyyyyyyy better.

Good Gm's, coaches and managers in baseball see these things and thats why they win, bottom line. I personally took quite a few perennial losing teams in various leagues to championships.
The first league I played in as an adult, our team won one game. The offseason, so to speak, we got switched manager/coach, he made 3 key moves and we made the playoffs with the same players the following season.

Its what they do. Proof is in the puddding, we have been struggling in the weakest division in football, imagine our record had we been playing two games a year against Balt and Pitts.
Of our 4 wins, 2 against the Chiefs, maybe the worst team in the NFL, and the waiders,,,,

we could easily be 1-9. I mean seriously, take out those two chiefs games, what is our record ? 2-6.
Take away all of our wins and add losses and were 0-10.
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