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Old 03-12-2018, 09:54 AM
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Default OT versus Interior OL... Make your argument.

Traditionally, OT is the sexiest, most expensive position along the OL... As such, Teams draft them earlier and more often than the Interior OL positions. But an argument has been made by many wily fan in here regarding the importance of the Interior OL position... particularly with respect to PR. The argument goes that PR really relies on pressure being contained up the middle. While PR certainly has no wheels with which to speak of... he does have an uncanny sense of when to step up in the pocket. I do not have any numbers to back up this claim... but it does seem, via the eye-test, that PR often beats the pressures off the edges but struggles when the pocket collapses. I think most QBs suffer from the interior OL crumbling... but it may be more so for PR as he has no speed with which to evade and run outside the pocket. Based on these set of premises... which part of the OL deserves more attention or higher priority in the draft? Keep in mind that OTs have the size and athleticism to often slide into the interior while the opposite is hardly ever the case.

Typical of my analytic nature... I am on the fence. The arguments for both sides are sound and it has left me wanting your opinions in order to sway me either way. What is best?... I am not sure there is a wrong answer... because either way you slice it.... it means you understand that high-grade quality beef along the OL corresponds without a doubt to more success on the field.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:33 AM
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My thought is the answer to your question depends on the view. By that I mean are you looking at a long term view, or at this season only. I will answer with the long term view of building a roster as I see it.

To start, you need to assign a position to Lamp. I believe the club has consistently said Lamp is an OG, although I think OC, but let us go with OG, and ROG specifically. That leaves a starting OL of Okung, Feeney, Pulley, Lamp and Barksdale, with the weak link in my opinion being Barksdale. (Pulley isn't far behind Barksdale) The belief, or presumption, is that Rivers needs that strong pocket that comes from solid IOL play would lead many to put the priority on replacing Pulley. I would counter that view with the view of Barksdale being pushed straight back into Rivers. The PRS' are no longer trying to beat Barksdale wide, giving Barksdale the opportunity to push them in a big loop, instead they just bull rush due to Barksdale's failing skills. I know, Wiz counters that by having the TE or RB chip block, but that takes away from the offence. OT's are far more difficult to find, and getting a really good one is priceless. The inverse is that IOL is readily available, and finding that good one is more likely due to the sheer numbers available. So what to do ? OT needs to be addressed, it is that simple, and I would most likely make that OT pick with my 2nd rd pick, taking my highest ranked OT left on the board. I hate doing that because I will assuredly be leaving better talent on the board, but if my process is solid, I fix a big issue as I look years down the road.

In the end, the club as many needs still, and taking the best talent with each pick is very difficult to resist.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by frozendisc View Post
My thought is the answer to your question depends on the view. By that I mean are you looking at a long term view, or at this season only. I will answer with the long term view of building a roster as I see it.

To start, you need to assign a position to Lamp. I believe the club has consistently said Lamp is an OG, although I think OC, but let us go with OG, and ROG specifically. That leaves a starting OL of Okung, Feeney, Pulley, Lamp and Barksdale, with the weak link in my opinion being Barksdale. (Pulley isn't far behind Barksdale) The belief, or presumption, is that Rivers needs that strong pocket that comes from solid IOL play would lead many to put the priority on replacing Pulley. I would counter that view with the view of Barksdale being pushed straight back into Rivers. The PRS' are no longer trying to beat Barksdale wide, giving Barksdale the opportunity to push them in a big loop, instead they just bull rush due to Barksdale's failing skills. I know, Wiz counters that by having the TE or RB chip block, but that takes away from the offence. OT's are far more difficult to find, and getting a really good one is priceless. The inverse is that IOL is readily available, and finding that good one is more likely due to the sheer numbers available. So what to do ? OT needs to be addressed, it is that simple, and I would most likely make that OT pick with my 2nd rd pick, taking my highest ranked OT left on the board. I hate doing that because I will assuredly be leaving better talent on the board, but if my process is solid, I fix a big issue as I look years down the road.

In the end, the club as many needs still, and taking the best talent with each pick is very difficult to resist.
I guess I should have prefaced the entire question with the facts regarding our current roster. It is pretty clear that we have a huge weakness at RT and could use an upgrade at C at a minimum. My last comment regarding the fact that OTs can move inside but vice-a-versa is rare... would make OT a bit of a higher priority in this draft for me. If we drafted Connor Williams and Lamp took over at OG or C... then we have a lot of potential along the OL starters. They could even be great if the talent hits. I think we could get another OT later in the draft that could move inside to OG and provide depth at OT... or we could identify an OC that we really like and have Lamp play OG.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:51 AM
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I guess I should have prefaced the entire question with the facts regarding our current roster. It is pretty clear that we have a huge weakness at RT and could use an upgrade at C at a minimum. My last comment regarding the fact that OTs can move inside but vice-a-versa is rare... would make OT a bit of a higher priority in this draft for me. If we drafted Connor Williams and Lamp took over at OG or C... then we have a lot of potential along the OL starters. They could even be great if the talent hits. I think we could get another OT later in the draft that could move inside to OG and provide depth at OT... or we could identify an OC that we really like and have Lamp play OG.
I like position flexibility, but feel it gets relied on too much, and obviously is used when things go wrong.

Talent in rd 1, then best OT in rd 2, then back to best talent available as you try to blend talent/need.

I have a sleeper pick for OC.....late round guy, maybe 6th or 7th.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by frozendisc View Post
I like position flexibility, but feel it gets relied on too much, and obviously is used when things go wrong.

Talent in rd 1, then best OT in rd 2, then back to best talent available as you try to blend talent/need.

I have a sleeper pick for OC.....late round guy, maybe 6th or 7th.
dude is not Danny's brother.... (not a CB either

more Coleman
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:24 PM
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My only thought is the Bolts are not that close, not just yet. I do agree that when they are, TT goes for it and gets that one needed player. FA or trade....however it needs to happen.
as have posted before, do suspect that we are that one player away.... as in a NT.... Star in FA and Vea to hedge any and all bets along the Dline, in the draft....

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Winning 9 of 12 to finish the year... and being a kicker away from 10-12 wins.

PLUS... we are adding elite prospect players in Lamp, Williams, and Verrett to the 2018 squad. That is like having 3 additional 1st round picks this year.

I'm too much of a seasoned Charger fan to be blindly optimistic anymore, but I do see something special happening here. I like our chances if we have a solid draft and offseason.
will give you elite on JV, but MW is anything but, 'specially right about now, and not ready to give the benefit of the doubt to Forrest yet either.... we've got work to do this next (off)season.

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Oh I love the trajectory, but there are plenty of needs, and depth is still a solid concern. TT needs to have another solid draft, and by that I mean he needs to be adding talent in every pick he makes....tough task. I do not see a Super Bowl appearence with Barksdale at starting RT, or Pulley as OC, and I an doubtful Okung makes the visit. So plenty of change yet to come in my view.
personally think Russell is def SB worthy and would be a major cog in the wheel if we make a run this next season, and would volunteer that Pulley has both the mindset and the measurables.... he just needs his metrics to catch up, and can't vouch for Joe one way or another, as.... you may be onto something there ??
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:48 PM
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I would prefer getting both OT and OC/OG through the draft. I'd get an OT in the 1st round because I think they could transition to LT once Okung's contract is up... if not sooner. I also believe an OC/OG could be drafted in the 3rd round... maybe 4th if Feeney moves to OC. Drafting these guys let's us keep salary cap down, rather than paying FA prices. Typically, teams are letting OL players go to FA because they're asking too much or are not that effective... neither of which I like.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozendisc View Post
My thought is the answer to your question depends on the view. By that I mean are you looking at a long term view, or at this season only. I will answer with the long term view of building a roster as I see it.

To start, you need to assign a position to Lamp. I believe the club has consistently said Lamp is an OG, although I think OC, but let us go with OG, and ROG specifically. That leaves a starting OL of Okung, Feeney, Pulley, Lamp and Barksdale, with the weak link in my opinion being Barksdale. (Pulley isn't far behind Barksdale) The belief, or presumption, is that Rivers needs that strong pocket that comes from solid IOL play would lead many to put the priority on replacing Pulley. I would counter that view with the view of Barksdale being pushed straight back into Rivers. The PRS' are no longer trying to beat Barksdale wide, giving Barksdale the opportunity to push them in a big loop, instead they just bull rush due to Barksdale's failing skills. I know, Wiz counters that by having the TE or RB chip block, but that takes away from the offence. OT's are far more difficult to find, and getting a really good one is priceless. The inverse is that IOL is readily available, and finding that good one is more likely due to the sheer numbers available. So what to do ? OT needs to be addressed, it is that simple, and I would most likely make that OT pick with my 2nd rd pick, taking my highest ranked OT left on the board. I hate doing that because I will assuredly be leaving better talent on the board, but if my process is solid, I fix a big issue as I look years down the road.

In the end, the club as many needs still, and taking the best talent with each pick is very difficult to resist.
Great post. I agree with almost all of it.

I would however like to see an upgrade at RT through FA and not use a high draft pick this year. I think we are poised to have a run this year and like having vets on the outside if possible. I use that high draft pick on an OG/C though (Hernandez in the second?).

So here is my OL based on what we're hearing from the Chargers.

Okung-Lamp-Feeney-Hernandez-FA

I think with Lamp's athletic ability and strengths, he can be an All Pro LG. I don't want to "waste" that kind of talent on RG if we don't have to. Also Lynn believes Feeney can be an All Pro OC, so that is why he is there in my scenario. I think Feeney and Lamp playing next to each other will be hell on opposing defensive lines.

I think we can also get Miami's (former first round pick RT) JaWuan James, for virtually nothing in draft compensation. So if we can get him for a 7th rounder, I would consider that essentially a FA signing.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:17 PM
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Great post. I agree with almost all of it.

I would however like to see an upgrade at RT through FA and not use a high draft pick this year. I think we are poised to have a run this year and like having vets on the outside if possible. I use that high draft pick on an OG/C though (Hernandez in the second?).

So here is my OL based on what we're hearing from the Chargers.

Okung-Lamp-Feeney-Hernandez-FA

I think with Lamp's athletic ability and strengths, he can be an All Pro LG. I don't want to "waste" that kind of talent on RG if we don't have to. Also Lynn believes Feeney can be an All Pro OC, so that is why he is there in my scenario. I think Feeney and Lamp playing next to each other will be hell on opposing defensive lines.

I think we can also get Miami's (former first round pick RT) JaWuan James, for virtually nothing in draft compensation. So if we can get him for a 7th rounder, I would consider that essentially a FA signing.

I am pretty well known as being very leery of FA's.....if TT does sign one, I want to know the 'why' in that player becoming a FA. For example, was he released due to big bonus coming, or cap issues, etc etc


There a many ways to get this done, but going young seems the best course. Having them mature in the same window is a nice aspect.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:24 PM
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I am pretty well known as being very leery of FA's.....if TT does sign one, I want to know the 'why' in that player becoming a FA. For example, was he released due to big bonus coming, or cap issues, etc etc


There a many ways to get this done, but going young seems the best course. Having them mature in the same window is a nice aspect.
I hear you... I want to know that too, but sometimes it's just the wrong scheme. Sometimes a new coaching staff is changing things up schematically and they no longer fit, but they may fit in ours. (Okung, Boston and McCain)

Sometimes it's age (Slausen), sometimes it's injuries (Heyward), and sometimes it's just lack of production (Toomer).

I agree that we build our core through the draft, but FA has it's place. This is where you fine tune your roster by adding complementary pieces to finish the championship push.

For the most part Telesco and company have done well in that category.

Last edited by The-Franchise; 03-12-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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