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  #61  
Old 12-03-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
I'd eat the money, and cut Hardwick after this season.

The late strip/sack/fumble vs. Cincy is the EXACT type play where some edge pressure by an OT gets the "stat" but the problem really was Hardwick on rollerskates so Rivers had nowhere to step up.

OT's get the blame by the announcers and fans, but Hardwick is the real problem on the OL.
I saw the exact same thing. Haslam did enough on that playtime where Rivers could have EASILY stepped up, but had nowhere to go. Hardwick got tossed back into Rivers' face like he was a 5th grader. The real problem with the OL is everyone.

Get the newbies in there, play Whitehurst and let him run for his life, and send a message to Phil. Sink this ship and start with a brand new FO, coaching staff, and OL next season.
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  #62  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:24 PM
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I saw the exact same thing. Haslam did enough on that playtime where Rivers could have EASILY stepped up, but had nowhere to go. Hardwick got tossed back into Rivers' face like he was a 5th grader. The real problem with the OL is everyone.

Get the newbies in there, play Whitehurst and let him run for his life, and send a message to Phil. Sink this ship and start with a brand new FO, coaching staff, and OL next season.
What message exactly are we sending to Rivers?

"You best get better at throwing guys open when you have defensive linemen wrapped around your ankles."

"You need to learn to get the ball out in less than 1.5 seconds!"

"You've only been hit/pressured/sacked on about half of your snaps this season... you need to be taking punishment at least 60% of the time."

"If Carlos Dunlap has just beaten your sorry excuse for an offensive tackle for the 51st time in a game, and he is about to strip the ball from your hand as you prepare to throw, you need to stop what you're doing, block Dunlap yourself, and then throw the pass."

"You only accounted for about half of our rushing yardage yesterday. We expect more."

Are those the messages we're trying to send him?
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  #63  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:26 PM
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Someone else pointed this out to me .......

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/in...t_jones_p.html



While I thought Jones was bad vs. Geathers, he might have had a reason. We'll see how he does against a good Notre Dame front 7.
I didn't realize that. I wonder if he's been dealing with issues all season. He's looked mediocre all year by his standards.
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  #64  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:32 PM
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I'll take a pass rushing OLB in the 2nd...even in the 1st if we end up out of the running for one of the top OTs. I've said it before...and others have as well...we start generating a pass rush like the Giants, whose DBs aren't even as good as ours, and our DBs are going to look way, way better. After QB, a top pass rusher is the most important player on a team...just ahead of OLT.
I agree.

If we have an Aldon Smith type pass-rusher at OLB, we could live with Jammer and Wright as the starting CB's.
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  #65  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kemp17 View Post
What message exactly are we sending to Rivers?

"You best get better at throwing guys open when you have defensive linemen wrapped around your ankles."

"You need to learn to get the ball out in less than 1.5 seconds!"

"You've only been hit/pressured/sacked on about half of your snaps this season... you need to be taking punishment at least 60% of the time."

"If Carlos Dunlap has just beaten your sorry excuse for an offensive tackle for the 51st time in a game, and he is about to strip the ball from your hand as you prepare to throw, you need to stop what you're doing, block Dunlap yourself, and then throw the pass."

"You only accounted for about half of our rushing yardage yesterday. We expect more."

Are those the messages we're trying to send him?
So Rivers is guilt free these past 2 seasons? It's only the OL?
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  #66  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:53 PM
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So Rivers is guilt free these past 2 seasons? It's only the OL?
What's changed from the days when Rivers was an all-pro QB? Has he gotten too old? Did he have some kind of big injury? Did the scheme change? Nope. He's still at the age where QB's are considered in their primes, he hasn't missed any time due to injury, and the scheme is exactly the same.

One thing has changed though. Personnel around Rivers. Doesn't absolve him of every mistake, but it does maybe tell you that he isn't the root of the problem. If you want to bench him for accountability's sake, you better bench at least both tackles and the left guard (whoever happens to be lining up at those spots right now). They've contributed heavily to a great deal of our turnovers and inability to make plays this season.

It seems there a segment of fans that believe a franchise QB should be able to play at a pro-bowl level regardless of what's going on around him. Has anyone watched a Denver or New England game lately? Has anyone noticed the amount of time they have on any given snap? The amount of space? I wish we could play some footage of Manning this season alongside Rivers from yesterday and just compare how much closer the defensive players are to Rivers, how much faster they get to hit, how much more often they hit/sack him or force him to throw while they have hands on him.

Now a lot of people retort "can't make excuses for him- he's just got to play better." I call that lazy. It completely ignores the entire concept of a team game.
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  #67  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:40 PM
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What's changed from the days when Rivers was an all-pro QB? Has he gotten too old? Did he have some kind of big injury? Did the scheme change? Nope. He's still at the age where QB's are considered in their primes, he hasn't missed any time due to injury, and the scheme is exactly the same.

One thing has changed though. Personnel around Rivers. Doesn't absolve him of every mistake, but it does maybe tell you that he isn't the root of the problem. If you want to bench him for accountability's sake, you better bench at least both tackles and the left guard (whoever happens to be lining up at those spots right now). They've contributed heavily to a great deal of our turnovers and inability to make plays this season.

It seems there a segment of fans that believe a franchise QB should be able to play at a pro-bowl level regardless of what's going on around him. Has anyone watched a Denver or New England game lately? Has anyone noticed the amount of time they have on any given snap? The amount of space? I wish we could play some footage of Manning this season alongside Rivers from yesterday and just compare how much closer the defensive players are to Rivers, how much faster they get to hit, how much more often they hit/sack him or force him to throw while they have hands on him.

Now a lot of people retort "can't make excuses for him- he's just got to play better." I call that lazy. It completely ignores the entire concept of a team game.
Agreed any QB who loses his:

- Above average LT (MM)
- Rock of Gaurd (Dielman)
- Safety blanket (Sproles)
- #1 Receiver (VJ)

Will have issues. Rivers is pressing which is causing some of these issues, but to say it's all on him is misplaced.
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  #68  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WootMonkey View Post
Agreed any QB who loses his:

- Above average LT (MM)
- Rock of Gaurd (Dielman)
- Safety blanket (Sproles)
- #1 Receiver (VJ)

Will have issues. Rivers is pressing which is causing some of these issues, but to say it's all on him is misplaced.
Yesterday, add to that list:

- Replacement LT (Gaither)
- Replacement LG (Green)
- RT (Clary)
- Any semblance of a running game

Rivers was probably overrated in 2008-2010. We probably gave him too much credit and not enough to having a strong left line, a HOF tight end, a great #1 receiver, and an excellent check down pass rusher. But he was still very, very good even if we did give him too much credit. But not people are giving him too much criticism. I am wondering what they expect him to do? But that's the nature of quarterbacks... they get too much credit when the team is good and too much blame when it's not.
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  #69  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:06 PM
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Yesterday, add to that list:

- Replacement LT (Gaither)
- Replacement LG (Green)
- RT (Clary)
- Any semblance of a running game

Rivers was probably overrated in 2008-2010. We probably gave him too much credit and not enough to having a strong left line, a HOF tight end, a great #1 receiver, and an excellent check down pass rusher. But he was still very, very good even if we did give him too much credit. But not people are giving him too much criticism. I am wondering what they expect him to do? But that's the nature of quarterbacks... they get too much credit when the team is good and too much blame when it's not.
The Oline is atrocious no doubt, but it doesn't excuse the wide open Gates over the middle and Rivers deadlocked on a covered Flloyd. he was not being pressured and that is my problem with Rivers, he locks onto Receivers like a Rookie QB does far too often.
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  #70  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:12 PM
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It's simple to cherry pick plays. He had bad plays when he was playing well overall too. Should I point out the plays where he completed passes downfield despite being under duress?

We won't know what we have left in Rivers until we get him some kind of supporting cast, but my bet is that he's still a franchise QB.
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